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new here.... - 9/30/2008 10:08:29 PM
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fragile-acrobat
Posts: 3
Joined: 9/30/2008
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Well, I am new here and thought I'd say something. lol.
I struggle with my faith a lot. Growing up as a kid I didn't really question it at all. It was just something that I did. Going to Church, believing in God, all of that was just second nature. Never a reason to question it, never a reason to doubt it, never a reason to think about it. It just was.
As I've gotten older and I've come in contact with various people, of various beliefs I find myself questioning a lot more. I still believe, but I wonder at times whether it's just because I was raised that way.
I read a recent article regarding Bill Maher's comments concerning Barack Obama and John McCain's faith, and how they've both pronounced their faith and their beliefs. And Maher said "they're lying" basically because the majority of people WANT a person of faith, or say they want a person of faith, and so they are saying they are to get elected, but they're lying.
Now, I don't believe that. However another comment he made struck a chord and it makes sense at least a bit.
He said that the problem HE had with Religion (any religion, as he's an Atheist) is that they basically hook you when you're young and unable to really make a choice in the matter.
And at one point I may have disagreed with him, however after seeing the movie Jesus Camp, which terrified me to no end, I almost want to agree with him.
Not that Religion or faith or Christianity is wrong or dangerous, mind you. Just the idea of us indoctrinating our kids. I say OUR kids despite me not having any.
I still to this day believe that Jesus is THE way to Heaven. I believe that God created everything, and that Jesus died for our and my sins so that I actually HAVE a chance to go to Heaven.
I just find myself questioning things and realizing that while I profess to believe, my thoughts and my actions tend to fly in the face of that.
That's kinda where my username comes from because I feel like that sometimes. A fragile acrobat, walking a tightrope ready to fall any second.
Trying to balance my FAITH beliefs and my PERSONAL beliefs when it comes to society and government.
Well I've rambled enough for my first post, but that's kinda where I'm at at the moment.
_____________________________
Please check out my blog.
http://searchingforchetbaker.blogspot.com
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RE: new here.... - 9/30/2008 10:35:09 PM
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ladyichigo
Posts: 569
Joined: 10/23/2007
From: Honolulu
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Hi Fragile-Acrobat
I just wanted to welcome you to the forums. When I first joined, I basically came from a very sheltered conservative Christian family, so it was rather a "culture" shock to see that there are sooooo many different kinds of Christians with sooo many different views here. But, it's been a great and humbling experience for me to be here and I have learned much about the faith I was raised in. Let me tell you, some of the stuff that gets discussed here gets pretty intense, and a lot of people get turned off by some of the responses because it doesn't fill them up with mushy-gushy feel-good stuff. I've also learned to back up my claims with the reliable references.
So, anyway I hope you enjoy your time here, and I pray that Lord will draw you nearer to Him through this forum and its members
_____________________________
Mari
I'm not cool enough to come up with a witty quote, but God is still good.
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RE: new here.... - 9/30/2008 10:50:09 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
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welcome fragile-acrobat, my fearfully and wonderfully made friend.
And please, do not take this the wrong way, but you need to watch where you get your information, or get advice from. Taking what Maher said(being that he is an atheist) to heart is a mistake. What would you expect someone who does not know God to say about God.
I for one did not make the choice for Christ until I was 21, which it then took me 10 years to fully comprehend and commit to. It is not something that was forced on me as a child. In my experiences, that is usually the case. Jesus is not something that can be forced on anyone, He needs to be chosen. So to say it is dangerous to indoctrinate our children(I also don't have any of my own, 2 nephews though) into our faith is not true. We are told to raise our children up in the faith. Now should we force it down their throats, no I don't think we should. Be we should give them the straight forward truth, and the choice will be made by them once they figure out the truth about Jesus.
Someone else just posted recently about something Joe Rogan had said, and now you have this post regarding Mahers comments. We as Christians(hopefully you consider yourself to be one) should not take what they say to heart, because how can men who don't know God, make comments about God.
My mother used to have a bumper sticker that said
no Jesus/no peace
know Jesus/know peace
So if they don't know Him, I wish they wouldn't talk about Him as if they did, and that we would not take to heart what they have to say about Him.
but again welcome 
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: new here.... - 9/30/2008 10:57:00 PM
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fragile-acrobat
Posts: 3
Joined: 9/30/2008
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Perhaps "indoctrinate" is the wrong word.
I don't have a problem with raising children to be Christian, I just, I suppose, can see the side of people who may see Maher's viewpoint on that.
I don't put stock in his opinions on Christianity, I just thought that was an interesting notion.
Especially after the movie Jesus Camp which was kinda scary to me.
_____________________________
Please check out my blog.
http://searchingforchetbaker.blogspot.com
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RE: new here.... - 9/30/2008 11:03:16 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
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I didn't see the movie, but I have heard some of his other comments. I have just come to expect that kind of stuff to come out of peoples mouths who do not know the Lord. Like I was trying to state, I don't agree that we try to hook children. I don't think we can hook children. We can show them the way, and hope and pray they will follow and stay on the path. I know there are a few verses that state that same thing.
But when it comes to atheists stating their opinions on Jesus, I look at it in the same way as someone talking about NYC, when they have never been there. Or someone talking about baseball who never played. If they don't know, why should I care what they have to say.
Just my opinion, I don't want to ruffle your feathers on your first night in the forums.
I would suggest if you have concerns or doubts that you take them to the one with the answers. Pray about it.
And again, I hope what I say does not come off as offensive.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: new here.... - 9/30/2008 11:18:51 PM
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pg4Him
Posts: 20
Joined: 6/5/2008
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Hey frag-
Welcome to crosswalk!
Your concern about growing up Christian, however, is a good one. But allow me to challenge Maher's assertion for a moment. I did not grow up in church. I spent most of my early life questioning everything and bouncing from one ideology to the next. For a time I was Buddhist, Wiccan, agnostic, you name it. When I was 17 I decided to give Jesus another look and He never let me go.
Sometimes I wish I had a good Christian support system, but I don't. Many in my family are still lost. I was exposed to drugs, alcohol, and domestic violence at a very young age, so my innocence was gone pretty early.
If I had a child right now, you bet your bottom dollar I'd be taking them to Sunday School. Public schools, TV, society overall is hostile to Christian children and they need all the support they can get.
So basically, it really matters not where you come from. All that matters is what you do with your life when you grow up. Ask whatever questions you feel like asking and challenge whatever needs to be challenged - but don't do it just because of Bill Maher.
_____________________________
To hear the Word and not *do* the Word is to still not know the Word.
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RE: new here.... - 10/1/2008 1:22:24 AM
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Nicole21
Posts: 10
Joined: 6/16/2008
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I know what it's like to question certain things and one thing that's helped me is knowing that Satan in every way shape or form will twist what God has intended for pure and good. For example marriage God created it to be this sacred bond between a man and a woman and Satan twists it to be well same sex marriage is OK. Everyone struggles with what they hear on t.v. and the inter net that's why its so important to be studying the bible and be in daily prayer I hope I was able to help a little
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RE: new here.... - 10/1/2008 12:09:25 PM
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galadriel2
Posts: 293
Joined: 6/5/2008
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Welcome fragile-acrobat! 
I will put in a few comments.
I think there is a difference between indoctrinating and teaching. The Bible asks (actually commands) us to teach and train our children, not indoctrinate. Indoctrinate is an emotionally loaded word. Bill uses it to evoke an emotional response in people rather than a well thought out one. We all tend to react negatively to the word 'indoctrinate' and will tend to in the emotion of the moment created by the word then tend to reject what it is attached to - in this case - the totally sane and practical concept of training and teaching your children right from wrong and truth from error.
As far as confusion and conflicting beliefs - I am familiar with those. I still don't totally understand several things in my life and the way they have worked out. I understand though, what I am to God and, in part, what He is to me. I am His child, His saint, His citizen in His kingdom - forever.
God bless,
Galadriel2
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RE: new here.... - 10/1/2008 12:33:34 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4288
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fragile-acrobat
Well, I am new here and thought I'd say something. lol.
Welcome, don't be skeered...stick around!
quote:
I struggle with my faith a lot. Growing up as a kid I didn't really question it at all. It was just something that I did. Going to Church, believing in God, all of that was just second nature. Never a reason to question it, never a reason to doubt it, never a reason to think about it. It just was.
As I've gotten older and I've come in contact with various people, of various beliefs I find myself questioning a lot more. I still believe, but I wonder at times whether it's just because I was raised that way.
I spent most of my 20s struggling, questioning, turning away, etc. I eventually came back. I think everyone should be able to defend their belief, not just say "that's how I was raised."
quote:
I read a recent article regarding Bill Maher's comments concerning Barack Obama and John McCain's faith, and how they've both pronounced their faith and their beliefs. And Maher said "they're lying" basically because the majority of people WANT a person of faith, or say they want a person of faith, and so they are saying they are to get elected, but they're lying.
They could be lying. I don't trust any politician. (Of course, I don't trust Bill Maher either...  )
quote:
He said that the problem HE had with Religion (any religion, as he's an Atheist) is that they basically hook you when you're young and unable to really make a choice in the matter.
Who doesn't have a choice? You only live with your parents as a child for so long. Then it's up to you to decide what you will believe.
quote:
And at one point I may have disagreed with him, however after seeing the movie Jesus Camp, which terrified me to no end, I almost want to agree with him.
Jesus Camp is scary.
Hang in!
_____________________________
Who should be allowed to attend church?
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RE: new here.... - 10/1/2008 12:36:48 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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Hi Fragile
I agree with what others have said on this thread with regards to 'taking to heart' what an ungodly person has to say about the Son of God. People like Maher do not realize that every breath they draw is 'compliments' of the God they 'say' they do not believe in. God is long suffering and not willing that any should perish. Maher's movie is not just about Christianity...or what he perceives is Christianity would be more accurate...it is about religions and beliefs. Regardless, Maher is profane and has a talent for making fun of what he does not understand. In his haste to do away with any god and God Himself, Maher has knelt down and worshipped his own intellect and that of those who scoff with him. God created man and man will ALWAYS worship something.
I would just like to make a comment on your quote, below:
quote:
I don't have a problem with raising children to be Christian, I just, I suppose, can see the side of people who may see Maher's viewpoint on that.
You cannot raise a child to be Christian...you can raise them WITH Christian values. Each of us must decide what we believe. I have not seen that movie 'Jesus Camp'....but I do have a general idea what it is about. Compare that movie and what it depicts to what the Word of God actually says and how Jesus is represented....does that look like that movie? Of course not! So why take that movie to heart? There is nothing to understand there. God's Word tells us that the things of God look foolish to the world and so you have a foolish man like Maher making a movie that depicts Christians as foolish. The Bible says that 'the fool has said in his heart there is no God'. Better to look foolish to Maher, who, according to God IS a fool, then to BE a fool and not believe.
One more thing regarding your comment below:
quote:
Not that Religion or faith or Christianity is wrong or dangerous, mind you.
It appears that you are not really at all convinced or sure of what you believe. Some religions are dangerous....faith? depends what you have faith in....Christianity in many places is no longer what God sent His Son down to earth for.....Christianity is, in the end, the MOST dangerous belief of all. True belief in the Christ of the Bible is life and world changing and a great and final danger to this world system and the devil himself.
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RE: new here.... - 10/1/2008 1:00:29 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1916
Status: offline
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Dear fragile-acrobat,
Welcome to the forum! And thank you for your truthful sharing. Ya know, that is the thing the Lord Jesus loves more than anything---our being truth full, full of truth. So bless you. Don't ever hesitate to speak what's on your heart with Him. He already sees and knows it all but LOVES it when we confess it, speak it, not hiding or posturing, trying to look good or appear righteous, but are absolutely truthful. So Lord, bless fragile-acrobat from the top of his or her head to the tips of his/her toes today!
Now to your questions/comments. And I will be bold and speak truth to you as well, f-a. It sounds like you know about Jesus and what He has done for you and all mankind and made available to all. But I'm not sure that you know Jesus 'upclose and personal' (as they used to say on sports channels---and since I haven't watched TV in 8 or 9 years, that is a trip down memory lane).
It is Jesus Who will calm your doubts, answer your questions, and fill that need within. I can't give it to you. No one else can either. But Jesus can. Jesus will. And He'd love to! All you have to do is ask.
Be truthful with Him as you were earlier and just confess to Him that you want to know Him personally, intimately. Ask Him to make Himself known to you. If that is the longing of your heart, He will. And He will answer your prayer in ways beyond your thinking or imagining. And He will satisfy your every need.
I have found Him faithful because that is Who He is. He will be faithful to you too, f-a. Love ya and praying you come to know the living Jesus, LL
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RE: new here.... - 10/1/2008 1:08:18 PM
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raivyne
Posts: 934
Joined: 8/28/2008
Status: online
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Welcome!
I would just observe that Maher fails to take into account the vast multitudes of people who are raised the same as you but fall away from their faith. he's also ignoring the multitudes of converts (myself included) who are not brought to church every Sunday and spoonfed religion, but yet through some avenue later in life come into the faith. I've been agnostic (bordering on down right athiesm), i've been new-age, i've been wiccan, but I am now and will forever remain a convert to Jesus.
Maher's world is empty. I pray that you will not fall victim to it.
_____________________________
P.U.S.H. – Pray Until Something Happens
What if God is asking us for a sign?
Knowledge is proud; wisdom is humble.
Patiently waiting for my KSA
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RE: new here.... - 10/1/2008 1:22:07 PM
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DuckTalk
Posts: 228
Joined: 9/16/2008
From: A Duck Hole in Tennessee
Status: offline
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Welcome my fragile friend to the fragile world of fragile souls. I am new here, also.
I was not raised in church, nor was I informed that the lessons I was taught in life were biblically based. I actually thought my mom was just very, very smart. Everytime I questioned her authority or anything in life, she would always come back with some very profound parable or proverb that was undeniably & fittingly appropriate. I just thought she must really have an awesome parental reference book that put Dr. Spock to shame.
I remember being told about God, that He is The Creator of all and that if I did not obey His Commandments, rules, laws and instructions that His wrath would consume me worse than anything imaginable. With only the 10 Commandments & the Golden Rule being the foundation for living, it was not until I was in my 20s that I realized what I had been taught actually came from the bible.
I was nearly 30 when I accepted Christ and already had proof in my life that His teachings were undeniably the most beneficial to mankind. After all, I had been "living" them for almost 30 years.
Clearly, I was "educated" (indocrinated if you prefer, same thing) in the "teachings" of Christ before I ever even knew who He was. After I was saved & developed a loving relationship with God, I asked my mother why we were not raised in church or told that her teachings were Christ's. She told me that churched Christians often acted more cruel than anyone & their hypocrisy was not the example she wanted for her children, so she "applied" the teachings of the bible in our daily lives, rather than having it preached, read to, or yelled at us.
Wow, I must say now, THAT is what I call "Implementing a Genuine, Beyond a Shadow of a Doubt, Unadulterated, Undeniable Profound Truth with Pure Love!
It has been impossible for me to debate that with any righteousness.
_____________________________
Sufferin' sassafrass. The nerve of some people, profitting from other people's miseries.
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RE: new here.... - 10/1/2008 1:54:30 PM
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drussell52
Posts: 208
Joined: 4/24/2008
From: Michigan
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Acrobat, keep up the reading and the questioning. May God lead you to conclusions that no one will be able to take away from you, but your faith be ever renewed, ever strengthened. Welcome to the struggle and to the forums.
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RE: new here.... - 10/1/2008 8:21:37 PM
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delete123
Posts: 969
Joined: 6/1/2005
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Believing in God is not a religion. Denominations are a religion, anything can be a religion. I have a friend who watches a soap opera without fail, that is his religion, not to miss one.
Having Faith is totally a different thing. What you have faith in has more stock than a "religion."
I believe if you wanted a religion you would not have come here.
Hacing faith is believing in what Jesus did for you and have faith without a doubt that it is true.
Which btw is.
Jesus Camp scard you why? Because it shows that the world needs leaders?
Then why don't you watch the Passion of Christ and see what *Your* leader did for you.
You already know the truth, so instead of looking for a world POV try allowing Him to show Himself to you.
Them maybe you won't find these situations so compromising.
Many folks grew up in a "christian" envrionment, but sometimes it takes that experience to realize the truth.
He didn't write it on your heart because of your family, He wrote things in your heart because He chose you!
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RE: new here.... - 10/2/2008 1:11:26 PM
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DuckTalk
Posts: 228
Joined: 9/16/2008
From: A Duck Hole in Tennessee
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Thank you delete123 for those simple, but beautiful words of wisdom.
Fragile_Acrobat, delete123 is right on the mark with those words!
_____________________________
Sufferin' sassafrass. The nerve of some people, profitting from other people's miseries.
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RE: new here.... - 10/2/2008 1:48:29 PM
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pg4Him
Posts: 20
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Amen delete!
PS - About Jesus Camp - the people involved came out and said that the producers made it look as bad as possible.
_____________________________
To hear the Word and not *do* the Word is to still not know the Word.
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RE: new here.... - 10/2/2008 2:38:21 PM
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LCannon
Posts: 1260
Joined: 2/22/2007
From: Lebanon, OR
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A culture of unbelief is nearly as dangerous as a culture of belief. In one of trailers for Maher's film his asks, 'What happens if you're wrong?'(Stupid question that requires no answer, BTW.)in his limited imagination.
'THINK ABOUT IT?!!', obviously he hasn't. Why? Other then sarcasm masquerading as humor he's trying to play the 'ignorant' in bliss. The difference between the two is the next page. If he's right and I'm wrong I'll still have a life full of obedience and reward in this life. If he's wrong I'll still have that plus eternity to enjoy Him and His saints. He has nothing to look forward to(at the least)and an eternity without even his longing that can't be satisfied. Either way I'm going to be the winner!
_____________________________
"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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