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cassian -> RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread (3/8/2006 11:27:09 PM)
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nowimfound,
quote:
I believe that God for Christ's sake forgives me all my sins. This is either the most wonderful Gospel message, or it is a terrible lie. It can not be both. If it is true, then eternal security is a natural corollary. I am at peace with God and can humbly but confidently return to His presence. If it is a lie, then peace with God is and remains an uncertainty till the end of my days. In reading this statement my first reaction is that it is not accurately stated.
You may mean this, I believe that God for Christ's sake can and does forgive me all my sins when I confess them.
If you believe that Christ arbitrarily forgave you your sins would not be scriptural. Christ paid the debt, the penalty of those sins, but He did not forgive anyone of their sins as a part of His Work on the Cross. Christ paid that penalty for every single soul that lives. God offers this part of Christ's work as a Gift to mankind. When man believes and accepts Christ, the first act of obedience through that faith is repentance. Anyone who believes, is baptised, which is entering into the Kingdom, the Body of Christ, must also incorporate repentance into that faith. Without it faith is meaningless, is dead, is actually faithlessness.
Faith without repentance is a dead faith, worthless.
Man remains reconciled to God as a believer as long as He seeks forgiveness, confesses his sins. That is why from man's perspective there is no security in his faith. It is a matter of constantly moving, increasing from glory to glory, becoming more like Christ, our example. To live a life in Him is to live a life apart from sin. Confession from those sins is paramount when we do them. And we do do them. Thus confession is absolutely necessary to remain reconciled to God.
quote:
However, Scripture also says that one who believes that God for Christ's sake forgives his sins is no longer subject to the condemnation of God's law or the outpouring of his wrath.
Belief is the requisite and that belief or faith is validated by repentance and further reconcilement is based on confession of our sins. Thus it is anyone who believes is saved. That is a statment of fact. But anyone who does believe does not necessarily always remain a believer. We can and do permit sin to enter and rule our lives. We permit the flesh to overrule the spirit. When we do this and do not seek forgiveness or repentance from our waywardness, we are no longer being saved. We no longer believe. Then you can incorporate what Walter was stating. If we obey His commandments we remain in Him. Obeying Him is an act of faith. It is faith in action, it is the part that says, we are saved through faith. It is not by faith, but through faith. Works and faith are synonomous in the NT, not opposites.
The reason you believe they are opposites is that works of the law cannot save man from the fall. Nothing man can do can save man from the fall. Man is unable to do this work in any respect, thus Christ performed all of the work necessary to redeem, reconcile, justify, to make righteous man before God. Or, to overcome death and sin for mankind. By saying faith justifies a man, is that this man can accomplish everything Christ did on the Cross which was the justification of mankind by simply believing or become justified. But then we are also individually saved through that faith.
All of mankind is saved by Grace. But only believers are saved by Grace THROUGH faith.
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No where in Scirpture does it ever teach that a person whose faith and hope is this Gospel message that God for Christ's sake forgives sins can or will ever be condemned for failure to obey Christ's commandments. No, because one is the natural outflow of the other. On the other hand, if we do disobey and do so willingly, and unrepentantly, we have lost faith, or belief, thus we can be condemned for our unbelief. You cannot be saved through sinning or unbelief. Belief implies and requires repentance and confession of sins. If not, we are no longer in faith and not being saved.
That is why all the warning regarding maintaining faith and/or belief. We can lose faith simply by sinning unrepentantly. If we do not love our neighbor we cannot love God. IF you cannot love God can you say you are still being saved?
If one permits the flesh to rule their lives, can one say that they are living in the spirit with the Spirit as a helper? Or can the Spirit be quenched and leave us if we persist in rejecting the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives? If no, then the warning about doing this is meaningless and totally unnecessary.
Thus we have such warnings and statements as these:
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
Rev.22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
1John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus .
1 Timothy 5:12 Having condemnation because they have cast off their first faith.
1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows
These are but a few of many, many verses all saying the same thing. Remaining IN Christ takes a lot of work. Diligence and patience and endurance. We do it all through Him who loves us and gave Himself for us. But we can certainly turn Him aside.
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