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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/11/2008 3:01:12 PM
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abu_khomar
Posts: 97
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
Seems like it can be lost by looking at 2 Peter 2:1, but I havnt studied this extensively.
Look at the last verse in the chapter:
22. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."
That, to me, indicates an unchanged nature - or someone that was never truly saved, even though they were exposed to and pretended to be under the true Gospel.
No changed nature = not born again.
Not born again = never had a salvation to lose.
Thanks for your reply Jimbo. The verse however says that these people were once bought by the Lord. Can you be bought by the Lord and not be saved?
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/11/2008 11:29:23 PM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2301
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
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quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
Seems like it can be lost by looking at 2 Peter 2:1, but I havnt studied this extensively.
Look at the last verse in the chapter:
22. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."
That, to me, indicates an unchanged nature - or someone that was never truly saved, even though they were exposed to and pretended to be under the true Gospel.
No changed nature = not born again.
Not born again = never had a salvation to lose.
Thanks for your reply Jimbo. The verse however says that these people were once bought by the Lord.
Maybe 1 Peter 2:1 says:
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought [the people], and bring upon [false prophets] swift destruction.
Or if "Lord that bought them" refers to God who bought the Israelites who were in bondage in Egypt, are these false teachers denying the one true God who bought them as mentioned in Exodus 15:13-16?
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
Can you be bought by the Lord and not be saved?
Can you be bought by the Lord and not have eternal life?
Exodus 15
13Thou in thy mercy hast led forth the people which thou hast redeemed: thou hast guided them in thy strength unto thy holy habitation.
14The people shall hear, and be afraid: sorrow shall take hold on the inhabitants of Palestina.
15Then the dukes of Edom shall be amazed; the mighty men of Moab, trembling shall take hold upon them; all the inhabitants of Canaan shall melt away.
16Fear and dread shall fall upon them; by the greatness of thine arm they shall be as still as a stone; till thy people pass over, O LORD, till the people pass over, which thou hast purchased.
Does God give eternal life to people and then take it away? Why would He do that? Why does He give it to them knowing that they aren't going to appreciate it?
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/11/2008 11:45:00 PM
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abu_khomar
Posts: 97
Joined: 1/7/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
Seems like it can be lost by looking at 2 Peter 2:1, but I havnt studied this extensively.
Look at the last verse in the chapter:
22. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."
That, to me, indicates an unchanged nature - or someone that was never truly saved, even though they were exposed to and pretended to be under the true Gospel.
No changed nature = not born again.
Not born again = never had a salvation to lose.
Thanks for your reply Jimbo. The verse however says that these people were once bought by the Lord.
Maybe 1 Peter 2:1 says:
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought [the people], and bring upon [false prophets] swift destruction.
Or if "Lord that bought them" refers to God who bought the Israelites who were in bondage in Egypt, are these false teachers denying the one true God who bought them as mentioned in Exodus 15:13-16?
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
Can you be bought by the Lord and not be saved?
Can you be bought by the Lord and not have eternal life?
Exodus 15
13Thou in thy mercy hast led forth the people which thou hast redeemed: thou hast guided them in thy strength unto thy holy habitation.
14The people shall hear, and be afraid: sorrow shall take hold on the inhabitants of Palestina.
15Then the dukes of Edom shall be amazed; the mighty men of Moab, trembling shall take hold upon them; all the inhabitants of Canaan shall melt away.
16Fear and dread shall fall upon them; by the greatness of thine arm they shall be as still as a stone; till thy people pass over, O LORD, till the people pass over, which thou hast purchased.
Does God give eternal life to people and then take it away? Why would He do that? Why does He give it to them knowing that they aren't going to appreciate it?
Ok, like i said before, the verse says they were bought. According to u that means they were saved, and then the verse says they fell away. So it appears that Christ didnt take their salvation from them, but somehow they had it, and now they dont.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/12/2008 12:01:40 AM
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abu_khomar
Posts: 97
Joined: 1/7/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
Seems like it can be lost by looking at 2 Peter 2:1, but I havnt studied this extensively.
Look at the last verse in the chapter:
22. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."
That, to me, indicates an unchanged nature - or someone that was never truly saved, even though they were exposed to and pretended to be under the true Gospel.
No changed nature = not born again.
Not born again = never had a salvation to lose.
Thanks for your reply Jimbo. The verse however says that these people were once bought by the Lord.
Maybe 1 Peter 2:1 says:
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought [the people], and bring upon [false prophets] swift destruction.
Or if "Lord that bought them" refers to God who bought the Israelites who were in bondage in Egypt, are these false teachers denying the one true God who bought them as mentioned in Exodus 15:13-16?
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
Can you be bought by the Lord and not be saved?
Can you be bought by the Lord and not have eternal life?
Exodus 15
13Thou in thy mercy hast led forth the people which thou hast redeemed: thou hast guided them in thy strength unto thy holy habitation.
14The people shall hear, and be afraid: sorrow shall take hold on the inhabitants of Palestina.
15Then the dukes of Edom shall be amazed; the mighty men of Moab, trembling shall take hold upon them; all the inhabitants of Canaan shall melt away.
16Fear and dread shall fall upon them; by the greatness of thine arm they shall be as still as a stone; till thy people pass over, O LORD, till the people pass over, which thou hast purchased.
Does God give eternal life to people and then take it away? Why would He do that? Why does He give it to them knowing that they aren't going to appreciate it?
Ok, like i said before, the verse says they were bought. According to u that means they were saved,
No, I didn't say that the false teachers were saved or that they were bought with the blood of Christ.
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
and then the verse says they fell away. So it appears that Christ didnt take their salvation from them, but somehow they had it, and now they dont.
Salvation means you have been bought with the blood of Christ. He owns you. Are you saying that He sells you back to the devil?
When I speak of salvation, I am speaking of the gift of eternal life. If you are purchased with the blood of Christ, He owns.
If God redeems you from captivity in Egypt, it doesn't mean that you have eternal life.
Im saying the people in the verse were at once point bought for a price, whoever it is he is talking about, they were once bought. Is that clear?
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/12/2008 12:05:33 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2301
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
and then the verse says they fell away. So it appears that Christ didnt take their salvation from them, but somehow they had it, and now they dont.
Salvation means you have been bought with the blood of Christ. He owns you. Are you saying that He sells you back to the devil?
When I speak of salvation, I am speaking of the gift of eternal life. If you are purchased with the blood of Christ, He owns you. Does He pay for your sins and then at some point, He no longer owns you?
If God redeems you from captivity in Egypt, it doesn't mean that you have eternal life.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/12/2008 12:08:00 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2301
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
Im saying the people in the verse were at once point bought for a price, whoever it is he is talking about, they were once bought. Is that clear?
It's clear. Did Jesus purchase these people with His blood or did the Father purchase them out of Egypt?
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/12/2008 9:04:07 AM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 5067
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
Seems like it can be lost by looking at 2 Peter 2:1, but I havnt studied this extensively.
Look at the last verse in the chapter:
22. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."
That, to me, indicates an unchanged nature - or someone that was never truly saved, even though they were exposed to and pretended to be under the true Gospel.
No changed nature = not born again.
Not born again = never had a salvation to lose.
Thanks for your reply Jimbo. The verse however says that these people were once bought by the Lord. Can you be bought by the Lord and not be saved?
Christ died for everyone. He actually bought salvation for everyone, but until and unless a person believes in Him, they do not have salvation.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/12/2008 2:47:12 PM
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abu_khomar
Posts: 97
Joined: 1/7/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
Im saying the people in the verse were at once point bought for a price, whoever it is he is talking about, they were once bought. Is that clear?
It's clear. Did Jesus purchase these people with His blood or did the Father purchase them out of Egypt?
1. But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
The people in this verse were at one time purchased, it is not saying anything relating these people whom he purchased to egypt, it is speaking in the future tense, as events to come, not events that already happened.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/12/2008 8:09:42 PM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2301
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
Seems like it can be lost by looking at 2 Peter 2:1, but I havnt studied this extensively.
Look at the last verse in the chapter:
22. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."
That, to me, indicates an unchanged nature - or someone that was never truly saved, even though they were exposed to and pretended to be under the true Gospel.
No changed nature = not born again.
Not born again = never had a salvation to lose.
Thanks for your reply Jimbo. The verse however says that these people were once bought by the Lord. Can you be bought by the Lord and not be saved?
Christ died for everyone. He actually bought salvation for everyone, but until and unless a person believes in Him, they do not have salvation.
Are you saying that He conditionally bought everyone and that if He decides the product is inferior, He'll return it to the former owner? Or does He believe that He can make something of the product that He buys?
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/12/2008 8:21:48 PM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2301
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
Im saying the people in the verse were at once point bought for a price, whoever it is he is talking about, they were once bought. Is that clear?
It's clear. Did Jesus purchase these people with His blood or did the Father purchase them out of Egypt?
1. But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
The people in this verse were at one time purchased, it is not saying anything relating these people whom he purchased to egypt, it is speaking in the future tense, as events to come, not events that already happened.
The word "purchased" is past tense. Were they purchased yesterday, last year, or four hundred years ago?
Were they gentiles or of the House of Israel?
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/12/2008 8:27:41 PM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 5067
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
Christ died for everyone. He actually bought salvation for everyone, but until and unless a person believes in Him, they do not have salvation.
Are you saying that He conditionally bought everyone and that if He decides the product is inferior, He'll return it to the former owner?
Absolutely not. All men are under sin (Rom 3:9) and all have sinned (Rom 3:23), so all of humanity is an "inferior product", as you say. That's not the basis for our salvation. It is faith in His blood (Rom 3:25).
Also, He didn't "conditionally" purchase anyone. He actually bought salvation for everyone. Not everyone receives the free gift of eternal life because not everyone has faith in His blood (Rom 3:25).
quote:
Or does He believe that He can make something of the product that He buys?
Kind of a weird question. Everyone who believes is regenerated. That's certainly a vast improvement. Also, He gives the Holy Spirit to every one who believes (Gal 3:2, 5). So, to answer your question, He definitely "makes something" of the (believing) products that He buys.
The unbelieving "products" are retrofitted (Rom 9:22) for destruction.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/12/2008 11:54:52 PM
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abu_khomar
Posts: 97
Joined: 1/7/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
Im saying the people in the verse were at once point bought for a price, whoever it is he is talking about, they were once bought. Is that clear?
It's clear. Did Jesus purchase these people with His blood or did the Father purchase them out of Egypt?
1. But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
The people in this verse were at one time purchased, it is not saying anything relating these people whom he purchased to egypt, it is speaking in the future tense, as events to come, not events that already happened.
The word "purchased" is past tense. Were they purchased yesterday, last year, or four hundred years ago?
Were they gentiles or of the House of Israel?
Hello,
purchased is past tense, but it referring to the future. purchased refers to the people that would arise, please look at the verse again, it is not referencing egypt.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/13/2008 4:51:18 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2301
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
Hello,
purchased is past tense, but it referring to the future. purchased refers to the people that would arise, please look at the verse again, it is not referencing egypt.
2 Peter 2
1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Purchased is past tense. The people were bought by the Lord in the past, not the future. You can't tell from this verse whether the people listening to the false prophets were purchased by the blood of the Lamb, or if the false prophets were Israelites who had been bought out of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 32
6Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?
In what sense were they bought?
There is no way to conclude that these false teachers were ever living for Christ and saved by the blood of the Lamb of God.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/13/2008 10:42:16 AM
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abu_khomar
Posts: 97
Joined: 1/7/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
Hello,
purchased is past tense, but it referring to the future. purchased refers to the people that would arise, please look at the verse again, it is not referencing egypt.
2 Peter 2
1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Purchased is past tense. The people were bought by the Lord in the past, not the future. You can't tell from this verse whether the people listening to the false prophets were purchased by the blood of the Lamb, or if the false prophets were Israelites who had been bought out of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 32
6Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?
In what sense were they bought?
There is no way to conclude that these false teachers were ever living for Christ and saved by the blood of the Lamb of God.
Sure there is. "Who privily shall bring in damnable heresies" is present tense, which refers back to the "even as there shall be false teachers among you." "Even denying the Lord that bought them," refers back to the last segment, "even as there shall be false teachers among you."
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/13/2008 7:30:40 PM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2301
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
Hello,
purchased is past tense, but it referring to the future. purchased refers to the people that would arise, please look at the verse again, it is not referencing egypt.
2 Peter 2
1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Purchased is past tense. The people were bought by the Lord in the past, not the future. You can't tell from this verse whether the people listening to the false prophets were purchased by the blood of the Lamb, or if the false prophets were Israelites who had been bought out of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 32
6Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?
In what sense were they bought?
There is no way to conclude that these false teachers were ever living for Christ and saved by the blood of the Lamb of God.
Sure there is. "Who privily shall bring in damnable heresies" is present tense, which refers back to the "even as there shall be false teachers among you." "Even denying the Lord that bought them," refers back to the last segment, "even as there shall be false teachers among you."
FreeGrace believes that Christ bought everyone. I don't know why He buys those who will never be His, or how anyone can buy something and have it not belong to him. If you pay for something, it's yours. If Jesus pays for someone, that someone no longer belongs to Satan.
quote:
2 Peter 2
1But there were false prophets also among the people,
Past tense
even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies,
future tense
even denying
present tense
the Lord that bought them,
(God the Father or God the Son)
and [shall] bring upon themselves swift destruction.
future tense
We do not know that these false teachers were Christians.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/13/2008 8:15:05 PM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 5067
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
FreeGrace believes that Christ bought everyone. I don't know why He buys those who will never be His, or how anyone can buy something and have it not belong to him. If you pay for something, it's yours. If Jesus pays for someone, that someone no longer belongs to Satan.
Here is what I believe is the issue. Our salvation is God's gift to man, per Eph 2:8 as well as Rom 3:24, 5:15-17, 6:23, 2 Cor 9;15, Heb 6:4 and james 1:7. What Christ actually purchased for everyone is the gift of salvation, available to everyone.
quote:
We do not know that these false teachers were Christians.
My position is that they were unbelievers, based on the fact that they denied the Sovereign Lord who bought them.
However, whether or not they are believers or unbelievers, the point of the verse is that Christ died for everyone, effectively purchasing eternal life as a free gift for everyone.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/13/2008 10:58:06 PM
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abu_khomar
Posts: 97
Joined: 1/7/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
Hello,
purchased is past tense, but it referring to the future. purchased refers to the people that would arise, please look at the verse again, it is not referencing egypt.
2 Peter 2
1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Purchased is past tense. The people were bought by the Lord in the past, not the future. You can't tell from this verse whether the people listening to the false prophets were purchased by the blood of the Lamb, or if the false prophets were Israelites who had been bought out of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 32
6Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?
In what sense were they bought?
There is no way to conclude that these false teachers were ever living for Christ and saved by the blood of the Lamb of God.
Sure there is. "Who privily shall bring in damnable heresies" is present tense, which refers back to the "even as there shall be false teachers among you." "Even denying the Lord that bought them," refers back to the last segment, "even as there shall be false teachers among you."
FreeGrace believes that Christ bought everyone. I don't know why He buys those who will never be His, or how anyone can buy something and have it not belong to him. If you pay for something, it's yours. If Jesus pays for someone, that someone no longer belongs to Satan.
quote:
2 Peter 2
1But there were false prophets also among the people,
Past tense
even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies,
future tense
even denying
present tense
the Lord that bought them,
(God the Father or God the Son)
and [shall] bring upon themselves swift destruction.
future tense
We do not know that these false teachers were Christians.
There were boughten
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 3:36:26 AM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 460
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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This would be very easy if people understood the atonement of jesus Christ.Did he really justify sinners on the cross?Did he really satisfy the wrath of God?If he truly satisfied God's wrath upon his elect then why would God pour out his wrath upon sinners again?
One cannot lose his salvation because God wil not allow it to happen.I must say that I do not believe in Eternal Security in the way most use it today but i believe in Perseverance of the saints.
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 6:05:46 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2301
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
However, whether or not they are believers or unbelievers, the point of the verse is that Christ died for everyone, effectively purchasing eternal life as a free gift for everyone.
Are we looking at the same verse?
2 Peter 2
1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 8:02:48 AM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 5067
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
However, whether or not they are believers or unbelievers, the point of the verse is that Christ died for everyone, effectively purchasing eternal life as a free gift for everyone.
Are we looking at the same verse?
2 Peter 2
1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
That's the verse I am commenting on. How do you view the "false teachers"; as believers or unbelievers?
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 8:52:16 AM
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4ChristisLove
Posts: 69
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline
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I see that as unbelievers (sorry you were asking freegrace). ;)
So if you REALLY believe and are truely saved then you all feel that you can't lose salvation? So the "Ex-Christians" that said they use to be Christian's could never have really had eternal salvation or do you think that they may still have eternal salvation, but are just so confused by the enemy's lies?
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 10:16:12 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2301
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
However, whether or not they are believers or unbelievers, the point of the verse is that Christ died for everyone, effectively purchasing eternal life as a free gift for everyone.
Are we looking at the same verse?
2 Peter 2
1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
That's the verse I am commenting on. How do you view the "false teachers"; as believers or unbelievers?
They can't be believers because they are false teachers.
Romans 8
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
What happens when we have God's spirit in us?
Ezekiel 26
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 10:21:36 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2301
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 4ChristisLove
I see that as unbelievers (sorry you were asking freegrace). ;)
So if you REALLY believe and are truely saved then you all feel that you can't lose salvation? So the "Ex-Christians" that said they use to be Christian's could never have really had eternal salvation or do you think that they may still have eternal salvation, but are just so confused by the enemy's lies?
Well....believers can get confused, but they won't stay there. Peter denied Christ three times, but he came around.
Matthew 26
69Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.
70But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.
71And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.
72And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.
73And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee.
74Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.
75And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 12:39:09 PM
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abu_khomar
Posts: 97
Joined: 1/7/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
However, whether or not they are believers or unbelievers, the point of the verse is that Christ died for everyone, effectively purchasing eternal life as a free gift for everyone.
Are we looking at the same verse?
2 Peter 2
1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
That's the verse I am commenting on. How do you view the "false teachers"; as believers or unbelievers?
They can't be believers because they are false teachers.
Romans 8
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
What happens when we have God's spirit in us?
Ezekiel 26
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Then who is the verse referencing as once being boughten?
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 1:48:01 PM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 5067
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 4ChristisLove
I see that as unbelievers (sorry you were asking freegrace). ;)
So if you REALLY believe and are truely saved then you all feel that you can't lose salvation?
That is what Scripture promises. 
quote:
So the "Ex-Christians" that said they use to be Christian's could never have really had eternal salvation or do you think that they may still have eternal salvation, but are just so confused by the enemy's lies?
If those "ex-christians" really did believe at one time continue to be eternally saved, because God promises that. But, the term "Christian" has been so watered down over the past generations that it means nearly nothing. I prefer the term believer. When you ask a nominal "Christian" what they believe, it's usually not much.
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