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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2007 3:28:43 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2007 4:11:58 PM
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propitiated4
Posts: 678
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quote:
ORIGINAL: apostolic862004
Ok. I cannot just sit by and say nothing when I am seeing what is going on here.
I believe the doctrine of eternal security comes from a misunderstanding of what grace really is. We are saved by grace and through faith.
Christ died on the cross. That was grace. None of us deserved for him to sacrifice his life for us. We did not earn that and the bible plainly declares that by saying that God commends his love for us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for the ungodly. We did not earn or deserve for him to die. That is grace. Being given an OPPORTUNITY that was not deserved. That's the key.
When Christ died and spilled his blood, he made salvation available to all men. He did not save all men immediately. There is still something we must DO. We have commandments all throughout the bible of things we must DO. Most people that I have talked with that believe in eternal security tell me that since there is nothing that we can do to earn salvation, there is nothing we can do to lose it. Well, they are half way right and half way wrong and that's dangerous. It sounds good but it's just not biblical.
As I stated before, we did not earn salvation. However, God did lay down some rules for us to follow. If you don't follow those rules, which is disobedience or sin, there are consequences. God hates sin and cannot dwell around sin. If you insist on living in sin, you are fighting your way into hell. God is not willing that any should perish but that all come to repentance. The problem is, people don't want to obey him. They want to do their own thing. God gave us a free will and he is not going to make anyone serve him. He wants it to be done out of love.
The bible constantly commands us to be sober and diligent. Why? Because according to Heb 12:15, we could fail the grace of God. Titus 2:11-12 tells us that the grace of God teaches us to live soberly, righteously, and godly in this world. And also to deny ungodliness and worldly lust. I would rather live my life carefully as though I could lose what I have been given and die and find out that it was impossible, than to live as though I can't lose it and die and find out that I did!
Grace is a gift...you make God an indian giver by what you are saying. T Sin after salvation does not eternally separate us from God but separates us from our close relationship with Him. We should not abuse grace by continuing in consistent love for sin. But unless you have sinless perfection, you will sin daily no matter what your theology is. If it is God keeping us, His grace cannot fail. I believe in a big God, who holds us and does not lose ONE of His children. I can see where you are coming from , that if it helps you to obey then you are welcome to live your life as though you can lose your salvation, but that doesn't make it a fact....
_____________________________
Romans 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2007 4:16:09 PM
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WildByNature
Posts: 444
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
quote:
ORIGINAL: propitiated4
How can you stand firm in the faith , with no assurance of the faith?
In the group I was in, we did, indeed, stand firm in "the faith," but our faith was (first of all) in the organization and (second) in our own ability to "stand." We were, in fact, quite proud of our ability to avoid sinning, as the public testimonies there demonstrated.
Since the question stemmed from my statement, I will answer. Though, I must say that I am grateful that I was never in a group like the one Covaan described.
Why do you believe I have no assurance of faith? I do. I have placed my trust in Him and His Word -- and I continue to have trust in Him and His Word. That is where assurance comes from. Scripture calls this assurance -- "hope". Faith is not something of the past that I had at one time and no longer need. If that was the case, THEN I'd have nothing to stand firm in -- and no "hope".
_____________________________
"Stop being afraid! Just keep on believing." (Mark 5:36 ISV)
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2007 4:24:24 PM
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WildByNature
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SureHope
Every command that God gives His children He gives the desire to fulfill it. God is working in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. This is an act of grace on God's part in the same way salvation is an act of grace.
The "desire" and the "working in us" are by the Holy Spirit indwelling us, which is the act of God's grace. If you quench the Holy Spirit, you will have no "desire", nothing "working in us" -- no act of grace, including salvation.
_____________________________
"Stop being afraid! Just keep on believing." (Mark 5:36 ISV)
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2007 4:39:16 PM
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WildByNature
Posts: 444
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quote:
ORIGINAL: propitiated4
Does that mean one who believes you can lose your salvation, can live like the devil as he pleases, and then come back to God when he sees fit?
As long as you come back before its too late, yes. (See the parable of the vineyard workers.) However, because we don't know when our last day on earth will be, who is willing to take that chance?
Yet, before you go off the deep end ... compare our view to the doctrine of OSAS which says --you can live like the devil and don't have to worry about coming back to God at all because you never really left God to begin with.
Now, which doctrine is the more dangerous? Clearly, OSAS.
_____________________________
"Stop being afraid! Just keep on believing." (Mark 5:36 ISV)
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2007 6:53:20 PM
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GodisLove1
Posts: 51
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quote:
ORIGINAL: apostolic862004
Ok. I cannot just sit by and say nothing when I am seeing what is going on here.
I believe the doctrine of eternal security comes from a misunderstanding of what grace really is. We are saved by grace and through faith.
Christ died on the cross. That was grace. None of us deserved for him to sacrifice his life for us. We did not earn that and the bible plainly declares that by saying that God commends his love for us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for the ungodly. We did not earn or deserve for him to die. That is grace. Being given an OPPORTUNITY that was not deserved. That's the key.
When Christ died and spilled his blood, he made salvation available to all men. He did not save all men immediately. There is still something we must DO. We have commandments all throughout the bible of things we must DO. Most people that I have talked with that believe in eternal security tell me that since there is nothing that we can do to earn salvation, there is nothing we can do to lose it. Well, they are half way right and half way wrong and that's dangerous. It sounds good but it's just not biblical.
As I stated before, we did not earn salvation. However, God did lay down some rules for us to follow. If you don't follow those rules, which is disobedience or sin, there are consequences. God hates sin and cannot dwell around sin. If you insist on living in sin, you are fighting your way into hell. God is not willing that any should perish but that all come to repentance. The problem is, people don't want to obey him. They want to do their own thing. God gave us a free will and he is not going to make anyone serve him. He wants it to be done out of love.
The bible constantly commands us to be sober and diligent. Why? Because according to Heb 12:15, we could fail the grace of God. Titus 2:11-12 tells us that the grace of God teaches us to live soberly, righteously, and godly in this world. And also to deny ungodliness and worldly lust. I would rather live my life carefully as though I could lose what I have been given and die and find out that it was impossible, than to live as though I can't lose it and die and find out that I did!
http://ernchez.tripod.com/home/home.htm
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2007 9:47:29 PM
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propitiated4
Posts: 678
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WildByNature
quote:
ORIGINAL: propitiated4
Does that mean one who believes you can lose your salvation, can live like the devil as he pleases, and then come back to God when he sees fit?
As long as you come back before its too late, yes. (See the parable of the vineyard workers.) However, because we don't know when our last day on earth will be, who is willing to take that chance?
Yet, before you go off the deep end ... compare our view to the doctrine of OSAS which says --you can live like the devil and don't have to worry about coming back to God at all because you never really left God to begin with.
Now, which doctrine is the more dangerous? Clearly, OSAS.
Actually my OSAS doctrine, says you can't live like the devil, because if you are and aren't repentant, and don't feel any different about sin than you did before, then you weren't really saved in the first place. I see the parable of the vineyard in the way I just described. If one sees salvation in the 2 ways you described, it is dangerous.
_____________________________
Romans 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/25/2007 8:56:11 AM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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ADMIN'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
I've removed a couple of off-topic posts.
This thread is about salvation and eternal security.
If you can't post on that topic then I suggest you take it to PM so I don't have to take further action.
Thank you for your attention. Directly below this sentence is a few lines in big bold red letters. I've made them that way so that they will be read and followed. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/25/2007 11:25:37 AM
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apostolic862004
Posts: 18
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quote:
Grace is a gift...you make God an indian giver by what you are saying. T Sin after salvation does not eternally separate us from God but separates us from our close relationship with Him. We should not abuse grace by continuing in consistent love for sin. But unless you have sinless perfection, you will sin daily no matter what your theology is. If it is God keeping us, His grace cannot fail. I believe in a big God, who holds us and does not lose ONE of His children. I can see where you are coming from , that if it helps you to obey then you are welcome to live your life as though you can lose your salvation, but that doesn't make it a fact....
I am not sure what you mean when you say I make God and Indian giver. I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. I am NOT saying that once you are saved, if you commit one sin, you are separated from God forever. I AM saying that you can be saved, live a life of righteousness(which simply means doing whats right), somewhere along the way get casual and lazy and begin to yeild to sin again consistantly, and end up being lost.
It was stated that if a person that claims to have been saved begins to live in sin again, then they never were saved. What that statement is saying is that God really is not a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. What that statement implies is that a sincere heart that sought after God was not rewarded eternal life.
It will probably be argued that if they return to sin, then they were not truly sincere. Well, 2 Peter 2:20-22 refutes that. It says that these people had escaped the pollution of they world through the knowledge of Jesus Christ. THEY WERE SAVED! They had made it out. BUT!!! They were entagled again. Again, it will probably be argued that they only had knowledge of salvation but that is not what it says. It says THEY HAD ESCAPED! Verse 21 says they TURNED from the holy commandments. Verse 22 lets us know they are just like dogs that slirp up their own vomit! Are you repulsed by that statement? THAT'S HOW GOD FEELS ABOUT WATCHING A BACKSLIDER!. It's just like watching a dog savor its own vomit.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/26/2007 8:11:58 AM
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SureHope
Posts: 1516
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WildByNature
quote:
ORIGINAL: SureHope
Every command that God gives His children He gives the desire to fulfill it. God is working in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. This is an act of grace on God's part in the same way salvation is an act of grace.
The "desire" and the "working in us" are by the Holy Spirit indwelling us, which is the act of God's grace. If you quench the Holy Spirit, you will have no "desire", nothing "working in us" -- no act of grace, including salvation.
In other words you are saying that Paul had no right to have confidence in what he said in Philippians chapter one,
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus. (Philippians 1:6 NASB)
According to your doctrine you have to footnote a statement like this with a conditional statement - of course you can quench this good work and you can nullify this promise of God perfecting His work in you until the day of Christ Jesus; and I Paul in reality have no right to have any confidence in God's work in you because your will is more powerful than God's. In other words, according to your doctrine, what Paul says in 1 Thes 5:19 nullifies what he says in Phil 1:6.
When Paul states,
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. (Philippians 2:12-13 NASB)
You have to footnote what he writes with - God is at work in you to will and to work for His good pleasure, but you can quench this work for your will is more powerful. This work of God working you to give you the desire to do His good pleasure is kind of weak and your desire to do evil is very strong so you can lose your salvation because you can quench this work.
Ultimately, your doctrine has at its foundation that the determining cause of your salvation is your choice to abide or quench the Spirit, so ultimately it is your will, your choice that determines if you will stay saved. Salvation is based upon the cross of Christ, but your ultimate salvation is based upon you will. If you don't work out what God has worked in you nullify God's work. In my mind your doctrine would have Paul have to footnote what he wrote in Phil 2:12-13 with, “so I will see you in hell with everyone else because in and of ourselves we are no match for Satan who wants us to quench the Spirit.” If our will can overturn God’s work in us we are all doomed.
Blessings to you,
SH
_____________________________
-Fix Your Hope Completely on the Grace to be Brought to You at the Revelation of Jesus Christ (1 Pet 1:13)
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/26/2007 8:37:24 AM
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SureHope
Posts: 1516
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apostolic862004
quote:
It will probably be argued that if they return to sin, then they were not truly sincere. Well, 2 Peter 2:20-22 refutes that. It says that these people had escaped the pollution of they world through the knowledge of Jesus Christ. THEY WERE SAVED! They had made it out. BUT!!! They were entagled again. Again, it will probably be argued that they only had knowledge of salvation but that is not what it says. It says THEY HAD ESCAPED! Verse 21 says they TURNED from the holy commandments.
Saying that they escaped from the pollution of the world does not necessarily mean that they had escaped from sin and the wrath of God, but had outwardly reformed without true inward grace. They may have escaped from outward corruptions and vice that they may have been in the habit of participating in, but have had no spiritual work of grace within their heart.
There are many people who attend church who have knowledge of the doctrines and requirements of God which encourages sinners to forsake outward sins. But this is not referring to saving grace. A person can know enough doctrine to know they should abandon sinful habits, and even abandon them for a period of time, and yet still not be genuine believers.
These have heard the holy commandment, had known something of its righteousness, had outwardly tried to conform themselves to it, but like the seed sown on rocky soil, they had no root, and so "turn back from the holy commandment."
True sincerity is a result of having the blinders taken away to be able to see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ who is the image of God. It is those who have had a true work of grace in their hearts who will persevere to the end.
Blessings,
SH
_____________________________
-Fix Your Hope Completely on the Grace to be Brought to You at the Revelation of Jesus Christ (1 Pet 1:13)
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/26/2007 8:42:55 AM
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SureHope
Posts: 1516
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propitiated4,
quote:
Actually my OSAS doctrine, says you can't live like the devil, because if you are and aren't repentant, and don't feel any different about sin than you did before, then you weren't really saved in the first place. I see the parable of the vineyard in the way I just described. If one sees salvation in the 2 ways you described, it is dangerous.
Yes! The doctrine of the perseverance of the saints is directed towards genuine believers for their comfort and encouragement to serve the Lord. It is not directed towards those who say they are saved but live like they are not; the warnings are for those.
Blessings,
SH
_____________________________
-Fix Your Hope Completely on the Grace to be Brought to You at the Revelation of Jesus Christ (1 Pet 1:13)
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/26/2007 8:52:24 AM
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SureHope
Posts: 1516
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WildByNature
quote:
compare our view to the doctrine of OSAS which says --you can live like the devil and don't have to worry about coming back to God at all because you never really left God to begin with.
I don't know which doctrine you are talking about, but it is not the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. It is that doctrine which says that God will preserve the saints in the faith; that the work that He begun He will complete - this invariably includes sanctification; being conformed to the Son of God.
Blessings,
SH
_____________________________
-Fix Your Hope Completely on the Grace to be Brought to You at the Revelation of Jesus Christ (1 Pet 1:13)
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/26/2007 10:16:01 AM
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yustme
Posts: 376
Joined: 5/2/2007
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Oh my goodness people!No one said God wasn't able to keep us.Of course He is.He's never lost His power and never will.These two Doctrines can be argued fron now till dooms day.If you were brought up believeing in OSAS and you're living it,PRAISE GOD.I was not,and I'm so glad I wasn't because when I"fell from Grace"I did some things I'm very ashamed of but I enjoyed doing them.And if I believed in OSAS I'd still be doing them because they were fun IN MY FLESH.It wasn't anything gross,but It was sin and I knew it.I can see a major thing going on here.Because of being in one Doctrine for 30 yrs then in another Doctrine for 33 yrs there is quite a difference in what sin is.The Baptist believe everything we say think or do that's contrary to the Bible is sin even if we didn't mean to say think or do it that way,it's still sin.And this is why they say we sin in thought word and deed svery day.And this is why they can't grasp the Doctrine that you can walk away from your salvation which is Jesus.I believe the Bible teaches sin is a WILLFUL transgression against the Lord not something we did in the moment that we didn't intend to do.I have talked to many people who were brought up Baptist and they have told me they did doubt that Doctrine because they knew they had been saved but because that's what there paster taught,that's what what they believed but they knew they were liveing in sin.There's a lot of people that doubt that Doctrine.And btw,I don't live in fear,I don't need to.I'm liveing according to Gods word.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2007 9:52:26 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3047
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quote:
Actually my OSAS doctrine, says you can't live like the devil, because if you are and aren't repentant, and don't feel any different about sin than you did before, then you weren't really saved in the first place. I see the parable of the vineyard in the way I just described. If one sees salvation in the 2 ways you described, it is dangerous.
Does any etertnal security-believer say that a believer can "live like the devil" and remain saved, or is that purely a myth taught by those who believe they live without sinning? I have only heard that accusation claimed by those who think they live without sinning but never by eternal security-believers.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/28/2007 5:12:28 PM
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yustme
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I have heard this from people who were born and raised in the Baptist home and church.I've also spoken to Baptist pastors who told me it makes no difference how far in sin one goes,if they die they will still go to Heaven if they had been saved at one time.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/28/2007 6:02:38 PM
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StephK
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The key thing to remember is *if they are saved*. I've been southern baptist all of my life and I have never heard it taught that once you get saved you have license to sin. What is taught is that if you are truly saved that there is nothing we can do to lose our salvation.
From my own experience when I flat out rebelled against God I did sin but when I did there was immediate conviction. That is the key right there, the Holy Spirit will convict a person when they sin. If there is no conviction of sin that's a good sign of a lost person.
quote:
Perseverance of the Saints
Those God saves, He protects and preserves in their salvation. Baptists have historically referred to this as the doctrine of "eternal security," or in popular terminology as "once saved, always saved." This is one point of Calvinism that almost all Baptists affirm. Sometimes misunderstood and falsely caricatured by those rejecting this doctrine, perseverance of the saints does not teach people can live any way they want and take advantage of God's grace. Rather, because of the greatness of the gift of our salvation, true believers will be grieved when they sin and will pursue a life that is pleasing to the God whom they love and Who keeps them safely in His hand (John 10:27-29).
_____________________________
Stephanie
Religion has accepted the monstrous heresy that noise, size, activity and bluster make a man dear to God. To a people caught in the tempest God says, `Be still, and know that I am God.' ~AW Tozer
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2007 6:21:13 AM
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SureHope
Posts: 1516
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
I have heard this from people who were born and raised in the Baptist home and church.I've also spoken to Baptist pastors who told me it makes no difference how far in sin one goes,if they die they will still go to Heaven if they had been saved at one time.
If you are saying that anyone who is dialoguing with you on this tread believes that saving grace is a license to sin, tell us who you are speaking of. If not, what's the point?
Because some people somewhere in some denomination appear to use the grace of God as a license for sin does not negate the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints.
_____________________________
-Fix Your Hope Completely on the Grace to be Brought to You at the Revelation of Jesus Christ (1 Pet 1:13)
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2007 1:15:54 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Okay. I remember one precious Baptist lady who did believe this. She had lied, four of her children and her husband confronted her with it, and she replied, "Oh well! What did Jesus die for anyway?" Her children and husband were shocked! They, also Baptist, did not agree with that idea, did not believe it, and did not live by it. One out of six Baptists in that room believed her way, five out of six did not. She had misunderstood the teachings in her church. This happens.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2007 6:38:51 PM
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yustme
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No I don't believe the Baptists are giving anyone a ticket to sin.But I do believe they are teaching people that even after they're saved they can never sin enough to surrender their salvation.GOD NEVER MOVES AN INCH,WE MOVE AWAY FROM GOD.I know ,I did.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2007 8:10:39 PM
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GodisLove1
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I believe this quote from Walter Martin in his book titled "Kingdom of the Cults" is the best defense for Eternal Security that I have seen.
"Some Christians make a great issue of the teaching of "eternal security," and perhaps rightly so because it is an important truth. However, no matter how strongly we may feel about it, our conviction does not entitle us to judge the motives and spiritual condition of other believers in this respect. This is our principal reason for taking the position that some OSAS apponents are christians who believe the historic gospel message. They cannot rightly be called non-Christian cultists or "judaizers," since the are sound on the great New Testament doctrines including gace and redemption through the vicarious offering of Jesus CHrist "once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and give evidence of "life in Christ."
For many centuries, there has been much controversy over the juxtaposition of the principles of law and grace in the Scripture. If evangelicals today wer asked, "Do you believe that grace and law are in direct opposition?" the answer in most cases would be a strong affirmative. Through the years, confusion has been caused by the abuse of both principals by two groups of equally sincere Christians. One group believes that all law has ceased; the other that the Ten Commandments are still God's standard of righteousness and must be obeyed or salvation is forfeit. What both groups have failed to grasp is that the great conflict is not between law and grace as such;rather, it centers around a proper understanding of their relationship and respective functions.
We have established that love is the ground and source of the doctrine of grace, but the law was necessary to expose the sinfulness of sin and the depth of man's moral depravity. When law becomes the ground of salvation or of restraining the Christian from practicing sin, it intrudes upon the province of grace. When a Christian is not controlled by love, grace is abused and its purpose nulified. All law is fulfilled by love, as our Savior and the apostles taught, but the Christian can never please God if he obeys for fear of the law. Life under law binds the soul, for the tendency is for man to obey not because he wants to please God but because he fears God's judgment. Under grace, love works upon the regenerate heart, and what was legalistic duty under law becomes gracious obedience under grace. Actually, grace and love demand more than the law, which to the Pharisees required only outward obedience. Grace commands us to "do the will of God from the heart" ( Eph. 6:6). Some declare that they obey the law not out of fear but out of love for God, but it is to be regretted that in a large proportion of their literature on the subject, they declare that the keeping of the law is necessary to maintain salvation, and thus they introduce the motive of fear instead of the Biblical imperative of love.
The Apostile John defined the issue when he wrote, "the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" (John 1:17). As a governing principle, a measure of righteousness, a schoolmaster and an instrument of death, the law was supplanted by grace- the unmerited favor of God. All believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, having passed from death to life through the sacrifice of the Son of God, possess the devine nature and righteousness. Because he first loved us, we are compelled and impelled to love and serve Him. In obedience to the great law of love, the Christian fulfills the righteousness of the law (not the law itself: this Christ alone did); and by the transforming power of the indwelling Holy Spirit he will "walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Romans 8:4)
Some though still do believe, we repeat, that they are saved by grace. However, they are often prone to believe that their remaining saved depends on "commandment-keeping" which again intrudes upon the province of grace.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2007 5:32:05 AM
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SureHope
Posts: 1516
Joined: 3/11/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
No I don't believe the Baptists are giving anyone a ticket to sin.But I do believe they are teaching people that even after they're saved they can never sin enough to surrender their salvation.GOD NEVER MOVES AN INCH,WE MOVE AWAY FROM GOD.I know ,I did.
Thank God He is at work within you both to will and do of His good pleasure. From my understanding of Scripture the reason you are still a child of God is God's abounding grace to keep you a child of God. Without His preserving grace we would all be lost eternally; we would all fall away to eternal perdition. The genuine regenerate child of God may move away from God but never away from being a son of God. Why? Because a genuine child of God is born again; has been given a new nature that has affection and delight in the things of the Spirit of God.
Thanking God with you,
SH
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-Fix Your Hope Completely on the Grace to be Brought to You at the Revelation of Jesus Christ (1 Pet 1:13)
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2007 8:17:26 AM
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yustme
Posts: 376
Joined: 5/2/2007
Status: offline
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Are you aware that there are Baptists who don't believe in Eternal Security as it's taught in many Baptists churches?My next question,When God saves us ,does He also do away with our free will?Who created evil,and why?Every time I heard a sermon on Eternal Security I marked down the scripture took it home and studied on it and every time without fail I could see where the Pastor ignored scripture just before or after that changed the meaning of what he was trying to prove.Don't skip over the If's and but's of the scripture.They're small words but VERY POWERFUL!
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2007 9:33:48 AM
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SureHope
Posts: 1516
Joined: 3/11/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
Are you aware that there are Baptists who don't believe in Eternal Security as it's taught in many Baptists churches?
Yes.
quote:
My next question,When God saves us ,does He also do away with our free will?
No. He takes the blinder away in order that we see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
quote:
Who created evil,and why?
From my limited understanding, God is not the author of evil, but created with the knowledge that evil would happen. He does all things for the display of His glory. Why do you ask?
quote:
Every time I heard a sermon on Eternal Security I marked down the scripture took it home and studied on it and every time without fail I could see where the Pastor ignored scripture just before or after that changed the meaning of what he was trying to prove.Don't skip over the If's and but's of the scripture.They're small words but VERY POWERFUL!
Those small words do not negate the fact that it is God who fulfills in His children that which He demands. "If you believe" and "if you continue in the faith" are not ignored by the good Bible teacher. Who is it that opens the eyes to believe and who is it that gives daily grace to continue in faith? God. His grace abounds in the genuine child of God.
Blessings,
SH
_____________________________
-Fix Your Hope Completely on the Grace to be Brought to You at the Revelation of Jesus Christ (1 Pet 1:13)
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2007 12:43:40 PM
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propitiated4
Posts: 678
Joined: 10/1/2007
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Romans
6:1
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?
6:2
By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?
6:3
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
6:4
We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
6:5
For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
6:6
We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.
6:7
For one who has died has been set free from sin.
6:8
Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.
6:9
We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him.
6:10
For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.
6:11So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
6:12
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.
If Christ died once and was ressurected once, and it says believers died once and are resurrected once with Him, then we can't possibly lose our salvation..
I was watching a movie , and I didn't realize in the 1400's Catholics believed they could fall from grace, unless they paid for their salvation. I think it was the 1400's, my dates may be off, but the movei reminded me of this forum and those who believe we can fall from grace. I don't see it in scripture.
< Message edited by propitiated4 -- 10/30/2007 12:51:15 PM >
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Romans 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for ado | | |
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