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There is evidence that children who are hit do hit other children.

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[Edited by Admin]

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There is a total difference between the woman you are talking about and a 2 year old. Also, are you suggesting spanking this woman would be the best form of confrontation?

If I were her parent, I might whop her upside the head for good measure, but I would definitely call it what it is, SIN, and that was the point of this analogy. I don't think that you are so void as to know that the SIN issue was the point of this analogy.

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It would not throw my faith in the least if I learnt that an infant Jesus bit his mother whilst nursing, or wandered somewhere he shouldn't have been (infact didn't he do that when he was 12!).

biting while nursing is learning that your mandibles are part of the act of feeding. And yes, he wandered when he was 12, but he did it intentionally and with full awareness of where he was going, and even defended, rightly, his right to have been where he was, in his "Father's house".

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Of course we all have a sinful nature, but just as my God sees my potential in Christ, I don't focus on my child's sin either. The new testament is so full of positives, of who we are in Christ and in the same way I try and encourage my child with who he is.

And I completely agree with you. I don't follow my child saying 'you sinner'. I think (and I may be wrong) that you have a vastly biased and incorrect view of those of us who spank and how/why we do it. I made my statement about sin because you stated, originally "I do think we also need to be careful with labelling a childs wrongs as in their 'sinful' nature. I have heard parents say they need to deal with thier child's 'rebellion' but IMO a lot of what (particularly small) children do are a healthy and necessary part of growing up. When my child pushes the boundaries I don't think 'there goes his sinful nature', I see it as something positive."

A wrong is a wrong, and sin is sin. I will not sugarcoat sin. When my 5 year old tells me that she had a toy first, even when I just saw her take it from her sister, and I say 'did you take it from your sister', and she responds 'umm... no, I took it out of the toybox and brought it out to play with and she wanted it'.... that is lying. lying is, by definition: to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive or to create a false or misleading impression. She may have been saying what she WANTS to be true, but she must be corrected and explained to that what she just did was lying. Same with a 4, 3, or 2 year old. It starts early as a desire to interpret reality into what we want it to be (creative intent, sinful nature) and manifests in latter life as a desire to interpret reality into what we want it to be (sinful intent, creative nature).

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Most children desperately want to please their parents and to feel that they are 'helping' and involved is very important.

I agree. My 5 year old is a little hostess, and she ASKS for more chores (odd isn't it). My 2 year old trys to mom her twin 1 year old sisters (which often makes my job harder) but she only wants to be part of the whole family unit and help mommy.

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As you seem so clear on what the bible has to say on the matter I am genuinely interested to have more details on what warrents a spank, what doesn't, age ranges and your reasons why.

Easy question, multi-faceted answer. Most commonly, for the younger ones, it is repeated offenses that are consecutive (repeatedly reaching to grab a peice of porceline that I have told her no, attempted to divert her attention, and finally, small swat... that is a small manifestation of rebellion by 'testing limits'), for older ones, it is blatant disobedience or lying (but not in every instance). That is my personal opinion. Many times, time outs, reflection time, WIYS, or distraction works, every time we incorporate verbal correction, and sometimes we incorporate spankings.

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I too would be interested to see others responses.

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ORIGINAL: bzirk

If it's hitting, then I can see the connection. If it's spanking to correct misbehavior, I do not.

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ORIGINAL: Momof2anddog

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ORIGINAL: bzirk

If it's hitting, then I can see the connection. If it's spanking to correct misbehavior, I do not.

How is spanking NOT hitting?
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spank [ spangk ]


transitive verb (past and past participle spanked, present participle spank·ing, 3rd person present singular spanks)

slap buttocks: to strike somebody, usually on the buttocks with the open hand in punishment




noun (plural spanks)

open-handed slap: an open-handed slap on the buttocks

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ORIGINAL: HC

I think I'll bow out of this thread for now as it doesn't seem to be going anywhere (plus I've been spending far too much time on CW today [sm=icon_smile.gif]). At the end of the day we are all trying to do our best for our children. What we can agree on is that whatever form of discipline a parent uses it should be without anger without causing shame or humilation to the child, consistent and only a small part of the way we 'disciple'. Perhaps as Christians we would be better expending our energies promoting these principles in a world which (it would seem) has very much lost its way as far as child rearing goes.

Blessings to all

Helen

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ORIGINAL: Sunnymom

Maybe we are supposed to take the stick, wave it over the child, and say "Abracadabra". [sm=icon_smile_boggled.gif]

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ORIGINAL: 2cappucinosmom

The problem is, spanking used as a tool by loving, in-control, reasonable parents is lumped in with out-of-control parents who belt thier kids out of irritation.

If, when you see the word "Spanking", you get an image of a yelling angry parent repeatedly whalloping a defenseless kid over some minor infraction, I guess I can understand the distaste for it.

But I guarantee you, that is not what happens in our household, and I'm willing to bet it doesn't happen in any of the homes of those here who've defended spanking.

I don't hit my son. I do spank him.

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ORIGINAL: ayen02

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ORIGINAL: Sunnymom

Maybe we are supposed to take the stick, wave it over the child, and say "Abracadabra". [sm=icon_smile_boggled.gif]

[:D]

I was spanked with a belt as a child and it did make me obedient. However, most of the time, I couldn't even figure out why I was getting a spanking.

Hubby and I spanked our kids but just with little swats. Hubby only had to spank them a couple of times when they were really defiant or disobeyed what we told them to do. 99% of the time, we just had to look at them or use "the tone" and they knew we meant business. We also use time out and took privileges away as a form of punishment. Kids know when they're supposed to be good. We've been told by their school teachers as well at church how well-behaved the kids are. So I guess a little spanking worked for us..

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ORIGINAL: Sunnymom

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Kids are good at coming up with things that you've never made a specific punishment for.

"But Mom, you never told me I wasn't allowed to jump off the roof of the garage!"

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ORIGINAL: infinitepiphany

covann,

its an interessting observation that that the children you encountered ONLY responded to physical punishment. thos poor kiddoes must off gotten A LOT of spankings! :(i see how such a philossophy could easily be adopted though.

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i was spanked, but the worst part of spanking was the WAITING! when we were going to get a spanking, my folks sent us to their bed room, where we waited for decades (5-10 min) while mom and dad ensured they weren't going to spank us in anger. the waiting was THE WORST part of it -- and i think they knew it, lol. parents are sneaky like that!

-michelle-