RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (Full Version)

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BigfoottheChipmunk -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (5/27/2005 4:59:21 AM)

I was spanked as a child, and I was hit as a child; The difference: I knew why I was spanked, and I , even as a child, knew my dad was out of control when I was hit.

I have spanked my children, and I have hit (1 or 2 times) one of my children; The difference: though I didn't want to spank, the child new it was coming, repented, and we reconciled quickly (peace), but when I hit, I felt like [horrible] after I did it, and I was the one crying and apologizing, and the child may or may not have "gotten" what they did wrong in the first place.

I hated it when my parents would yell at me or "be unfair", but looking back, sometimes what I perceived as unfair was actually not. Grounding worked better with me.

Self control on the parents part seems to be a key factor, no matter what kind of correction method is used. A parent who won't correct their children at all is showing little or no self control in that they are not taking their position of teaching their children sriously.

I spank rarely. There was a period of time with my boys when they got a spanking about every day because they were rebelling repeatedly about a certain thing... They were not harmed by it, and occaisionally tell me I forgot to give them their daily spankings...lol

My younger daughter responds better to "time out" or "the naughty chair" method... I had to reel her older sister in on this, because when she was babysitting at one point, she was jokingly telling the little girl, then 3, that she was sending her to the "shadow realm" ... same place I sent her for "time out". UH, not cool...lol

My older children are NOT allowed to spank younger siblings when babysitting. I have given them other methods, and the knowledge in the younger ones that they must mind, or they will hear about it from me when I get home... not a tongue lashing, but it WILL be discussed.

I think, for the most part, that, unless a family memeber has a major role in raising the child, in this day and age, ONLY the parents have the right to correct by spanking.

I hope I have not wandered or rambled too much. [:)]

[Edited by Admin.]



Amy_2005 -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (5/27/2005 9:40:09 AM)

Ok, let's see if i can make this short.
I was spanked as a child by my father and my mother (even though mom didn't do it as often or as hard). I could not stand my daddy for the way he spanked me. He used anything he could get his hands on. . .and sometimes just his hand. He also done it in anger. He never "beat" me. But I hope when i have kids i don't act like he did. I recall him catching me by surprise. . . spanking me and i wouldn't even know what for. I also remember many times that he spanked me because he "thought" i disobeyed but later found out that i HAD obeyed. Instead of apologizing he would just tell me that i've gotten away with many things and that was just making up for the many times he didn't spank me. I didn't respect him. . .i disliked him so much. The good news is that there is a 9 year difference between me and my brother (he being younger) and my daddy does to act like toward him. I still disagree with some of his "thinking" but he treats my brother better. . .guess he's mellowed out a little. I have a good relationship with my daddy now and Love him very much [:)]

But with all that said, YES i believe in spankings! I was spanked and i turned out FINE. I didn't go through the drinking phase, s*x phase or anything. Not that i was perfect but. . . i Knew i couldn't yell at my parents and get away with it. I knew there would be consequences. I had very few friends so grounding me didn't work. I was into the Nintendo phase so they could take that away but not much else. The catch to spanking is what has already been said on this thread. There are rules to spanking. You don't do it in anger. . .you do it in love. You make sure the child KNOWS why they are getting a spanking (or any other punishment). You stay consistent. You let them KNOW how much you love them.

I have a cousin and sister-in-law who didn't get spankings and they are going through the rebellious teenage stage that i didn't go through. Sleeping around, etc. I worry about them. They could really ruin their lives. And neither are Christians which i believe adds to the rebellion because there not trying to please God. They don't see it as being wrong. With that said, that doesn't mean they wouldn't do these things if they were spanked but i believe they'd think twice about it. [8|]

Ok, guess that wasn't short. [:D]

Amy



Sunnymom -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (5/27/2005 5:03:12 PM)

Amy,

IMO, what your dad did is what most people think of when they think of 'spanking', but corporal punishment is not supposed to be a 'spur of the moment whap with whatever is on hand'.

People who thump on their kids because of their own lack of control give spanking a bad name.

BTW, welcome to Crosswalk.[:D]



Amy_2005 -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (5/27/2005 11:19:10 PM)

Thanks Sunnymom!
I do love my dad very much now. And i'm glad to know he's not as rough on my brother (he's 15). I have found that i'm VERY defensive toward my brother even with my dad (because of the way i was treated). I let him and anyone else know how i feel about the decisions he/they make regarding him. I know I'm only their other child but. . . I'm 25 and i feel like i had enough experience in that respect to know whether or not my dad was right or wrong on certain topics. I flat out tell him when i think my brother should be allowed or not allowed to do something. [:)] Not that i was treated horribly but. . . not like I should've been. I'm usually the kind of person that learns from other people's mistakes so that i don't make them myself. HOPEFULLY, i'll learn from my dad's mistakes and i won't be that way with my future kid(s).

Amy



theyoungone -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (5/28/2005 11:53:09 PM)

I hadn't read the posts here until today. I was never spanked as a kid. No real disipline, they call it permissive parenting. I chose what I would and would not do. Needless to say I was pretty out of control by 13. Sparing the rod is not the way to go. I also believe rod is a stick from my studies.

I got my act together when I became a mom and read lots of books pro and con spanking. I spanked when my first two children were little under the age of 5 and then used reality parenting. In other words, if their laundry didn't make it down to the laundry room after a reminder that it was laundry day then they went without etc... My second two got spanked until about age 10 and I do notice a behavior change for the better, we still use reality parenting as well.

My husband was spanked. He said in fifth grade he got a paddle almost everyday at school and one at home too for "acting up, cutting up, not obeying and whatnot". He had a great childhood, an awesome teen life, is in ministry today and is a good solid man of honor and integrity character and morals. So there you go folks, one example of no spanking, one example of lots of spankings.

On the kid front, we have one out on his own and doing well, serving God, working etc... One at ORU in Tulsa, doing great, working and going to school and serving God. We are still working on the other two but we expect great results.



pinkcarnation -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (5/31/2005 6:05:47 PM)

I did not read the foregoing posts (I'm cooking dinner). I believe one must meet the child where the child is - meaning that if spanking is what it takes for the child to be obedient, then that is what one has to do. Obviously, hitting is forbidden, along with anger and being out of control while disciplining your child. I also believe that once a child is about 5, sometimes 4, that spanking should be discontinued.

With my son, all I had to do was give him the look - he was a very tenderhearted child. Spanking was not necessary with him.

Now, my daughter was a different story - she was very oppositional and defiant. (She still is and she is grown with three children of her own.) It was necessary sometimes to spank her.



theyoungone -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (6/4/2005 10:48:04 PM)

I just got back from a seminar that said that "the look" is abusive and traumatizing to a child and can open doors to rejection. Thoughts?



bzirk -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (6/4/2005 11:03:25 PM)

Can you elaborate on that?



Sunnymom -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (6/6/2005 8:12:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: theyoungone

I just got back from a seminar that said that "the look" is abusive and traumatizing to a child and can open doors to rejection. Thoughts?


If they said what I think you think they said [8D] then someone has too much time on their hands and not enough neurons firing properly.



FoxInSox -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (6/6/2005 8:33:39 AM)

"the look"?

aww man...i've already messed up most of my students... (eye roll).

now, if "the look" were the only form of communication, that might be a different story.

my dad often gave me "the look" and i couldn't figure out what i had done wrong. i often wished he'd just TALK to me so i didn't have to guess -- bc i ended up guessing about 4 things too many, lol.



Sunnymom -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (6/6/2005 8:45:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: infinitepiphany

"the look"?

aww man...i've already messed up most of my students... (eye roll).

now, if "the look" were the only form of communication, that might be a different story.

my dad often gave me "the look" and i couldn't figure out what i had done wrong. i often wished he'd just TALK to me so i didn't have to guess -- bc i ended up guessing about 4 things too many, lol.


This is why "The Look" is a valuable parenting tool! I can walk into a room filled with kids with The Look on my face, and ask what is going on- I get confessions I couldn't even have guessed at! [:D]

I do believe that communication is important- a child should never be left guessing as to why they are being punished by whatever method- and it is important to address sin as sin, and not say things like "What is wrong with you" or "I can't believe you could be that stupid".



FoxInSox -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (6/6/2005 1:21:25 PM)

lol, sunny :) i realized i had been initiated into teacher-dom when i went to a church event with at a friend's church. dh and i went into the gym, and sat on the top of some closed bleachers. some upper elem kids sat up there, too. they started kicking the bleachers, hard, and kept it up. i glanced their way, and man how they cowered -- they stopped kicking, too!

i thought the experience was pretty funny :D.



Georgia-Peach -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (6/6/2005 3:29:49 PM)

I do not have children yet, but have gotten alot of information on this post. Growing up we were spanked, but I can only recall a few times. We just knew to mind or else so rarely was their a need for it. I guess we respected our parents and the authority they had over us. My parents are godly parents with a lot of love and it has not scared me or my sister. My husband and I do plan spanking, but not for every little thing they do wrong. There are other ways to discipline children without using spanking and it works just as well if not better. I just want my children to be well behaved and respectful to us as parents and to others in their lives who are authority figures. I get worried sometimes seeing how disrespectful children can be (even at church) now a days. I worry our children will want to act like others and not understand why they are made to mind. My final thought is as christian we do have the responsibility to make our children mind, be respectful, and obey I dont necessarily think that means we have to spank them to do so. Hope this didn't offend, I am still worried when I post things that are controversly.



3toraiseup -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (6/24/2005 11:08:17 AM)

I was raised in a Christian home where spanking was used. I was heavily disciplined as a child to the point where my will was broken. I do believe this has affected how I respond to the world. However, I don't believe that it was the spanking alone that was the problem. I was parented by strict rules and heavy punishment as opposed to being lovingly disciplined. I did not feel loved by my mother, rather I felt lorded over. Today, I feel and know her love - we are very close in fact, but as a child I thought she was mean and didn't love me. I was spanked -- never hit. However, I believe I was over-disciplined because my primary motivation for doing good was to avoid punishment, not to please my parents.

Thinking about this recently has led me to re-consider how and why I punish and discipline. I am considering giving up spanking as one of my disciplinary tools and changing my philosophy to be more that of training and learning as opposed to punishing.
Both my husband and I have spanked in anger and that, I believe is sinful. I also don't see the fruits of spanking in my home. It does not alter behavior. In fact, with our daughter, it creates fear and trembling which IMHO must be terrorizing. My heavenly Father doesn't terrorize me and I cannot bear to know that I am terrorizing my daughter. We have spanked our son along with various other disciplinary tools and with him, spanking doesn't seem to affect him at all. Other forms of discipline seem to be much more painful for him. The reactions of our children, coupled with our occasions of sin by spanking in anger are leading me toward a no-spanking philosophy in our house.

I realize that each child is different. I'm not saying it is wrong for all parents to spank or that it is wrong or right to spank all children, just expressing what I am currently working through. I have seen Scripture interpreted both ways and to be honest, I don't see clearly which is correct or incorrect. For this reason, I am prayerfully considering what is best for our family at this particular time.



swordbearing1 -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (6/24/2005 11:50:22 AM)

My husband and I would spank our three daughters. They didn't need it much...they are in their twenties now and are lovely women. But, I do remember using the wooden spoon on occasion, and I have feelings of guilt about that. I feel now that it was a weapon, and that brings me shame. I have asked the Lord's forgiveness for that, even though there are no lasting wounds..I have discussed this with my children.



W.O.F. -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (6/25/2005 8:54:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: theyoungone

I just got back from a seminar that said that "the look" is abusive and traumatizing to a child and can open doors to rejection. Thoughts?

wow....must be a non-punitive standpoint that that came from!

What did they recommend then?



W.O.F. -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (6/25/2005 8:58:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 3toraiseup

I was raised in a Christian home where spanking was used. I was heavily disciplined as a child to the point where my will was broken. I do believe this has affected how I respond to the world. However, I don't believe that it was the spanking alone that was the problem. I was parented by strict rules and heavy punishment as opposed to being lovingly disciplined. I did not feel loved by my mother, rather I felt lorded over. Today, I feel and know her love - we are very close in fact, but as a child I thought she was mean and didn't love me. I was spanked -- never hit. However, I believe I was over-disciplined because my primary motivation for doing good was to avoid punishment, not to please my parents.

Thinking about this recently has led me to re-consider how and why I punish and discipline. I am considering giving up spanking as one of my disciplinary tools and changing my philosophy to be more that of training and learning as opposed to punishing.
Both my husband and I have spanked in anger and that, I believe is sinful. I also don't see the fruits of spanking in my home. It does not alter behavior. In fact, with our daughter, it creates fear and trembling which IMHO must be terrorizing. My heavenly Father doesn't terrorize me and I cannot bear to know that I am terrorizing my daughter. We have spanked our son along with various other disciplinary tools and with him, spanking doesn't seem to affect him at all. Other forms of discipline seem to be much more painful for him. The reactions of our children, coupled with our occasions of sin by spanking in anger are leading me toward a no-spanking philosophy in our house.

I realize that each child is different. I'm not saying it is wrong for all parents to spank or that it is wrong or right to spank all children, just expressing what I am currently working through. I have seen Scripture interpreted both ways and to be honest, I don't see clearly which is correct or incorrect. For this reason, I am prayerfully considering what is best for our family at this particular time.

I have seen children whose will has been broken by parents who never spanked so you are right on the money when you say it is a result of heavy ruling. Screaming parents or parents who punish without teaching can do the same thing.

You are hitting the nail on the head when you point out what works for your children....we must evaluate carefully what method of punishment drives home the discipline (teaching) we give our children.

For some....it will mean NEVER being spanked...and for some it will mean ONLY being spanked..and those two children may be in the same family!



W.O.F. -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (6/25/2005 9:02:15 AM)

I once heard a non-punitive parent (those are those parents who do not believe in ANY punishment whether it be time out, spanking, grounding whatever) say that they did not believe punishment was EVER a part of discipline and that it could be traumatic for a child to be punished.

Someone asked how do you teach your young child to stay out of the road then?

She responded "I find a dead squirrel or other run over animal and tell them...this is what will happen to you if you play in the road..."


and that's NOT traumatic?



Cherish4235 -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (7/4/2005 1:57:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: W.O.F.


Someone asked how do you teach your young child to stay out of the road then?

She responded "I find a dead squirrel or other run over animal and tell them...this is what will happen to you if you play in the road..."


and that's NOT traumatic?


[:D]LOLOL!!

That is so funny! I see what you are saying though. Personally, I think the quicker and most effective way to keep the child out of the road would be a spanking if they went near it. I mean, why wait until it is too late and the child has already been hit and injured or perhaps ran over and killed?! I would rather prevent the situation from happening by giving them a good spank rather than not teach them to stay out of the road and allow them to be run over. That would be more so abuse than a good spank would be!



Invisible_Woman -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (7/4/2005 4:07:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AQuietPlace

Again, this is so sad a topic, truly sad. Someone mentioned how important it is to talk to your children. Please, at some point when no one needs a spanking, talk to your children about how it feels to them, what they think, etc., especially kids ages 11 or 12, if you think that your children believe they have any freedom to be honest with you. I'm talking about discussing the idea of spanking as a part of the discipline routine. Naturally they will say they don't like to be hurt. I don't mean that. But I also don't mean controling the conversation or making it into a sunday school lesson. I mean respecting them enough to hear their feelings and ideas, enough to discuss the whole idea with them not just before and after a spanking. For example, even though you, as a parent, must regulate your child's activities, they have input about choice of sports, etc., don't they?




Ok, I asked my son 14 yrs. old now, whom I spanked up until around 5 how he felt about it. My son's reply was not what I thought. He said he will not spank his kids. I wish I could remember word for word what he said, it was so good. But he mentioned that it wasn't the physical pain that hurt, but the fact that his parent would HIT him. I only spanked (hit) him on his hine side and I asked him if that is what he remembers, and yes he does remember the spankings as I did. So it is not in his memory that he was beaten. He said he can remember the spankings making him feel angry at me and wanting to rebel in some way. When God disciplines me, I know for a fact that I don't feel like rebelling against him. The Heavenly Father I know now does not provoke anger and apparently I provoked anger in my child when I thought I was disciplining. I was careful in the way I spanked, and not to do it out of anger. But to go back again I would not guide my son in any manner which provoked anger or hurt emotions. I believe it is ok when disciplining if hurt emotions are flared by remorse of action, but not hurt emotions from fear of a parent. I believe the rod in the bible was spoken as rods used back then to guide and prod by shephards. My family farms and I know that they don't hit the cattle, they poke them and push them, but they don't hit them. So as a parent I would only use necessary means to guide and to me spanking would not be one of them if I were to do it again.

Looking back I believe that I could have achieved the same obedience by not spanking. TRULY, TRULY I believe the key to discipline is what many others have said. 1.) Clearly explained boundaries 2.) Consistency with the rules and consequences of your home.



W.O.F. -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (7/4/2005 5:17:38 PM)

that's interesting latic...and shows how we really have to know each child and what is effective for them.

I asked my 14 year old daughter...she plans on spanking,but only after much teaching and after evaluating each child.



FoxInSox -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (7/4/2005 6:45:45 PM)

that squirrel story is funny :)

maybe i will use that as a preventative teaching method, and then spank wen it's broken, lol. who knows?

i CAN remember once getting caught riding my bike out of a driveway without checking the street. i lost my bike for a week, and i was devastated.



cynthia -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (7/4/2005 8:17:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: infinitepiphany

that squirrel story is funny :)

maybe i will use that as a preventative teaching method, and then spank wen it's broken, lol. who knows?

i CAN remember once getting caught riding my bike out of a driveway without checking the street. i lost my bike for a week, and i was devastated.

What a powerful lesson for you. You still remember it clearly, including how you felt.



Invisible_Woman -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (7/5/2005 9:44:25 AM)

W.O.F.,
Yesterday at the gym I brought this up with a friend who has raised 3 fantastic boys. Her youngest a senior this coming year. She told me that her youngest made the comment to her that he'd hate to see how they would have turned out if she hadn't spanked. She stopped around the age of 7 with all the boys.

It is very interesting how kids feel different about it!

So my question now would be, how do you know when your child is little how it is going to effect them in the long run? How do you know which child is being hurt emotionally?

When my son was little I felt very in tune with him and his emotions. I had no idea it made him feel the way he did back then.



W.O.F. -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (7/8/2005 10:09:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: latic

W.O.F.,
Yesterday at the gym I brought this up with a friend who has raised 3 fantastic boys. Her youngest a senior this coming year. She told me that her youngest made the comment to her that he'd hate to see how they would have turned out if she hadn't spanked. She stopped around the age of 7 with all the boys.

It is very interesting how kids feel different about it!

So my question now would be, how do you know when your child is little how it is going to effect them in the long run? How do you know which child is being hurt emotionally?

When my son was little I felt very in tune with him and his emotions. I had no idea it made him feel the way he did back then.

I think you have to evaluat the whole picture as well as the child. Is there anger in the home (even if it is not yours)? is there any abuse in the family, even between other family members, that the child is aware of? is there bullying at daycare, or school?

I also think you have to be sure that any spankings come as a FOREWARNED consequence...not an impulse decision. The only exception might be if they are getting ready to touch a hot stove, put their finger in the light socket, etc..and even then I always did the grab, yell and correct thing the first time....

If a child knows that something is wrong, and you have forewarned them...then it isn't really such a shock to them when they do get spanked...especially if you have repeatedly worked with them on something (say throwing toys at your head....).

Also...while in the teaching mode...what works? If timeouts seem to really get through to your kid...go for it...if he/she seems to be enjoying the time alone...find something else.

Also discuss with your child, even at the age of 2 and 3, why you spanked them, and ask them about how it made them feel. MOST kids will say it hurt my bottom and that's it. But a child who is really upset about a spanking (and keep in mind that at my house it is one swat per year they are old...so a 2 year old would only get 2 swats) is probably NOT a child who should be spanked.

And keep in mind...this is your 14 year old son speaking NOW about how he feels...he may change his mind as he gets nearer to being a parent.

I resented some of the spankings I got as a kid, not because they were abusive or anything else...but the situation they were unfairly (by my parents' admission now) given. But I realize that it was the situation that I resent (failure of parents to communicate...mom told me to do something..dad told me not to...mom said "do it before I get back from town or you'll be punished" dad spanked me for doing it......that kind of thing)not the actual spanking itself.

spanking should never be "first response" to most issues (life threatening ones the exception)...there needs to be teaching and direction and clear consequences laid out....

that said...NOT all my kids have been spanked.

My oldest daughter did not respond to spankings the couple of times we did spank her...they very clearly made her angry and rebellious at the time...and time outs were "excruciatingly painful" to her...so time outs it was....

Looking back yourself...was there any sign of resentment at the time? or was your son a very easy going child (not saying he wasn't strong willed...please understand that by easy going I mean not easily stirred up to visual anger)?

Also, in your one post you pointed out how your family doesn't hit the cattle....I have to say that my uncle was rancher...and when we had to move cattle from one pasture to the next or to the summer meadow...we kicked the ones who wouldn't move in the rear from the back of a horse....I would never kick one of my children though....nor would I use a cattle prod on them (especially since most have an electric shock to them that will knock you on your backside....)



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