RE: To Spank (Full Version)

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Homegrownkids -> RE: To Spank (9/18/2008 1:30:30 PM)

I remember getting spanked at older ages...9-10. I know one family that didn't spank often, but they still spanked their 15 yr old dd. I don't know if it helped any... she still got pregnant at age 16 and was pretty rebellious.

I think it really depends on the child. I don't spank, spank, my kids anymore.... but now and then if they are having major attitude problems, I will swat their behind, but I don't take them over my knee. I have 3 young teens/preteens and I can count on one hand how many spankings they have had combined. I have spanked my 12 yr old son this last year. But... it has happend only once this whole year. Otherwise we have used other forms of discipline. My Dd is 13, I'm sure she has gotten a spanking this last year also, but now that she is almost 14, I think it would be akward and I will probably not do a "real" spanking on her. To me, they are still children at this age though, they still need discipline and guidance. Most of the time they will listen and they can be reasoned with.



manda59 -> RE: To Spank (9/18/2008 1:34:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homegrownkids
My Dd is 13, I'm sure she has gotten a spanking this last year also, but now that she is almost 14, I think it would be akward and I will probably not do a "real" spanking on her. To me, they are still children at this age though, they still need discipline and guidance. Most of the time they will listen and they can be reasoned with.



As Sideways said:

quote:


Plus, once a child starts to mature sexually, spanking on the butt just strikes me as a really bad idea on sooooo many levels.


The butt becomes sensitive sexually during puberty, and I agree with Sideways that even just for that reason alone it's not a good idea to spank there then. Let alone the other reasons (of self-esteem etc).



reach -> RE: To Spank (9/18/2008 1:58:49 PM)

I did not spank my nephew after 4 years old. I took away privalages.



SuccessinTruth -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (9/18/2008 2:48:33 PM)

I don't have time to read through more than 5 pages of this, so I apologize if this is redundant. When I was a teenager I decided that I would never spank my children, I would reason with them. The very first thing I learned is that children aren't reasonable.

I don't think I had to spank my first son more than twice. He was so eager to please that it just wasn't necessary. My next 2 were a whole different story, so you can't base your theories on just one child.

Children also respond to different people in different ways. My mother never had to physically discipline my children, or even tell them something twice. She had 'The Voice'. I credit her with my boys excellent behavior with babysitters, in school, or in anyone else's home.

As far as spanking at home, I believe that Chuck Swindoll had the most ideal method:
They never used spanking as a first response, their children were always warned that if the behavior was repeated that a spanking would occur.
They never spanked if they were angry.
They spanked using one of those bouncy ball paddles, it stung, but did no physical damage. But it made the paddle the bad guy, not the parents.
They held the child until the child stopped crying, making certain that the child knew why they were punished and that they were deeply loved.
They punished more often for a rebellious attitude that anything else. After all, it's rebellion that causes us the most issues in our relationship with God.
I can't imagine anyone being harmed by such loving discipline. This sets a foundation of obedience that is usually followed throughout the child's time at home if not his lifetime.

I do, on the other hand, know of horror stories of teenagers who know they can ignore their parents and do as they please, because their parents won't really do anything but talk or do something that they can and will ignore.

I don't pretend that this is always the case, because being raised in a home where God is the head of the household, the obedience of the parents to God's will can set the example that the children will follow.

So above all, please don't lean on your own understanding, and pray for His guidance. He never fails.



Leslie_JnJs_mom -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (9/18/2008 4:31:05 PM)

I guess it is a good thing I did not have DH spank DS. EWWW! I cannot even remember the last time I spanked that boy it has been so long. But I thought it was sad that the mom who says she does not spank anymore wanted to spank her back-talking son!



bzirk -> RE: To Spank (9/19/2008 10:35:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: manda59

As one who was spanked in public, I can tell you that all it did was give me lot of shame, low self-esteem and cause me to be withdrawn and resentful.


Parents obviously differ radically in how they administer punishment. I was spanked as a child but never publicly. My parents had a wisdom about spanking that did not require they spank in public. I've also never spanked my kids publicly. I've found it just wasn't necessary. Spanking at home or in privacy was sufficient.

Frankly, what I've found is that kids just need to consistently know the boundaries, and sometimes mine needed a spanking to get the message, but it wasn't necessary to use spanking as the first response or a frequent response.



bzirk -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (9/19/2008 10:47:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuccessinTruth

I don't have time to read through more than 5 pages of this, so I apologize if this is redundant. When I was a teenager I decided that I would never spank my children, I would reason with them. The very first thing I learned is that children aren't reasonable.


Well said.

There does seem to be this assumption that children can be reasoned with as if they have innate self-control and it just needs to be brought out of them. That doesn't even line up with scripture. Oh, surely, there is occasionally a child who seems to exhibit self-control.

quote:


I don't think I had to spank my first son more than twice. He was so eager to please that it just wasn't necessary. My next 2 were a whole different story, so you can't base your theories on just one child.


This sounds like my situation. Only it's my second child and my fourth child who had a much harder time with discipline. On the other hand, my first and third child were hardly ever spanked. I think my oldest was spanked once and my third child was maybe twice.

quote:


Children also respond to different people in different ways. My mother never had to physically discipline my children, or even tell them something twice. She had 'The Voice'. I credit her with my boys excellent behavior with babysitters, in school, or in anyone else's home.

As far as spanking at home, I believe that Chuck Swindoll had the most ideal method:
They never used spanking as a first response, their children were always warned that if the behavior was repeated that a spanking would occur.
They never spanked if they were angry.
They spanked using one of those bouncy ball paddles, it stung, but did no physical damage. But it made the paddle the bad guy, not the parents.
They held the child until the child stopped crying, making certain that the child knew why they were punished and that they were deeply loved.
They punished more often for a rebellious attitude that anything else. After all, it's rebellion that causes us the most issues in our relationship with God.
I can't imagine anyone being harmed by such loving discipline. This sets a foundation of obedience that is usually followed throughout the child's time at home if not his lifetime.

I do, on the other hand, know of horror stories of teenagers who know they can ignore their parents and do as they please, because their parents won't really do anything but talk or do something that they can and will ignore.


We are so on the same page.

My dad never read Chuck Swindoll, since I was growing up before Chuck started writing, but what you describe is exactly how I was disciplined.

quote:


I don't pretend that this is always the case, because being raised in a home where God is the head of the household, the obedience of the parents to God's will can set the example that the children will follow.

So above all, please don't lean on your own understanding, and pray for His guidance. He never fails.


So well said.

Once I was a parent, it became patently obvious that I need the Lord's continual guidance, and frankly, it's been extremely edifying for me and my kids to seek His counsel. Things that I was completely at a loss to deal with the Lord has so ably handled and brought peace and joy.



Sideways -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (9/19/2008 2:55:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuccessinTruth
I do, on the other hand, know of horror stories of teenagers who know they can ignore their parents and do as they please, because their parents won't really do anything but talk or do something that they can and will ignore.


We all know kids like that. But there are other ways of getting an older kid "where it hurts". It doesn't have to be spanking or wild hooligans (and I realize you weren't saying that).

I still have issues with parents who spank a sexually maturing youngster, but for little tykes I think it's one tool among many. My dH continues to grow more and more uncomfortable with it, although he has not outright forbid it, it will probably be a very rare event in this house, outside of a reminder swat.

But that doesn't mean we don't discipline, but I'll admit, with an 18 month old I do struggle sometimes, knowing where and how to draw the line on certain issues. But I'm not intimidated by the fact that I don't know everything as a parent, nor will I take the "Spare the rod" verse as my ticket to having a perfectly well-behaved child.



dyluck -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (9/19/2008 3:26:18 PM)

Hi I read a few posts here (sorry for not reading all).
I don't have kids yet, but I come from a perspective of both being spanked and being overboard spanked.

Lucky for me I feel I'm normal in the end [:)]. When I have children, I will spank them under controlled circumstances up to certian age (would depend on the maturity of the child). My spankings stopped when I was probably around 8 or 9.
No when I got spanked, it wasn't always under controlled circumstances and it was under rather reactive circumstances. Although, I knew when I got a random swat, i was out of order immediatly. Did it impact that much?? well see below.

It wasn't until I was older that the reactive "non-spanking" physical punishment came out of hand. My mother mostly would grab whatever looked like it could hurt in the nearby facinity and hit me with it. This is where spanking or physical punnisment became bad for me and I built resentment against my own mother for that for MANY years.

I know from this experience that even if I'm keeling over in rage, I will retain myself for controlled spanking.

I found the worst part of regular controlled spanking was the wait before. This is the reflection time a child needs I think (made the largest impact on me). I don't think instant spankings are the answer. If the problem warrants a spanking, a child should be sent to the room and wait for the father or mother. to keep balance in the home though, father and mother should take turns being good cop/bad cop. This avoids favorites and sneeky disrespectfull behavior. I think this should apply in any corrective actions (spanking or otherwise).

Sidways wrote:
quote:

But I'm not intimidated by the fact that I don't know everything as a parent, nor will I take the "Spare the rod" verse as my ticket to having a perfectly well-behaved child.


I think that spare the rod perfectly applies (under the circumstances that warrants the rod). The bible ALWAYS should apply 100% in our lifes. God knows how to be a father better then us, thats for sure, and God doesn't spare his rod when we need discipline! Children were stoned for rebelion and disobediace back in the day. I feel the rod is rather tiny compared to that.

Now, heres where I believe one should NOT spank their children.
How can one spank their child for blowing up their TV if they have been never taught to not touch the TV? If they have been warned, told about the rule and possibly even repremanded by more suttle means about the TV; they comlpetely disrespect your rule anyway, then yes, this warrants a controlled spanking.



Sideways -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (9/19/2008 3:34:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dyluck
I think that spare the rod perfectly applies (under the circumstances that warrants the rod). The bible ALWAYS should apply 100% in our lifes. God knows how to be a father better then us, thats for sure, and God doesn't spare his rod when we need discipline! Children were stoned for rebelion and disobediace back in the day. I feel the rod is rather tiny compared to that.


I am not saying that I know better then God, good gravy! I'm saying that my interpretation of the Bible reads that we should provide consistent, loving discipline, peppered with a lot of grace and mercy. Consistent, loving discipline does not need to take the form of a rod, and it is up to the parents what/if any situations warrant the rod.

Parents who discipline their children without corporal punishment can still be following God's word, depending on the lessons they are teaching their children.



amcnelly -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/6/2008 11:58:16 PM)

we do spank our children but it is never while we are angry....after telling the child what they have done to warrant a swat on the hind end we then administer one or two swats depending on the severity of the deed....spanking should NEVER be done when the parent is angry.......



scottishmomma46 -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/8/2008 9:04:41 PM)

spanking is not a bad thing because you cannot reason with a two yr old to say "now Johnny you should not do this" you cannot do that, now there is a difference between beating and spanking and of course beating is out!!!
but spanking is only needed at times when the child is being so stubborn and if you have to tell them more than 2 times? well, it should not go that is when spanking should happen and then ask the child now can you tell me why i had to spank? making them tell you reinforces the discipline



SamsonUSA -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/10/2008 7:33:23 PM)

OK a couple of observations from someone with no children but who works with kids extensively.
I have found that the majority of children who are unruly and refuse to obey or follow directions are almost always being by raised by parent(s) that have a " no spanking " policy.

Unfortunately sometimes it seems some of these parents follow a " no parenting " policy also and let their kids do pretty much as they please.

In which cases in my opinion it is the parents who need to be spanked.



manda59 -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/11/2008 6:49:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SamsonUSA
OK a couple of observations from someone with no children but who works with kids extensively.
I have found that the majority of children who are unruly and refuse to obey or follow directions are almost always being by raised by parent(s) that have a " no spanking " policy.



I've had the opposite experience - that the majority of such children were spanked extensively, to the point of abuse.

I'd imagine that it's actually both of these two extremes that could have this effect - both too little discipline and too much.



Sideways -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/11/2008 7:05:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: manda59
I'd imagine that it's actually both of these two extremes that could have this effect - both too little discipline and too much.


I agree. There are plenty of parents who use consistent, loving non-spanking methods and come out with well behaved children.

A lot of folks see a badly behaving kid and think "Well, if that kid just got a sore rear end, he'd be just fine." No, that's not it. If that kid got consistent discipline from parents who loved him and spent time with him, then he'd have a good chance of turning out fine (obviously rotten kids can and do still come from even the best of parenting).

Consistent discipline takes many different forms, spanking being only one of them, and certainly the one that should be used the most sparingly in the worst-case scenarios (in my opinion).



scottishmomma46 -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/11/2008 10:19:20 AM)

those parents that have not parent policy? well, then can only expect to have problems coming thier way. our 16yr old jeremy we still do alot of the "parent policy" with him if we did not it would be a disaster. in fact, now that he is a freshman in high school and playing on the football team at times he sometimes thinks he not allow to do what he is suppose to do?
NOT. but we love jeremy and the word says if you love your child you will discipline.



SamsonUSA -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/11/2008 11:23:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: manda59

quote:

ORIGINAL: SamsonUSA
OK a couple of observations from someone with no children but who works with kids extensively.
I have found that the majority of children who are unruly and refuse to obey or follow directions are almost always being by raised by parent(s) that have a " no spanking " policy.



I've had the opposite experience - that the majority of such children were spanked extensively, to the point of abuse.

I'd imagine that it's actually both of these two extremes that could have this effect - both too little discipline and too much.


There are two completely different issues here. The unruly children that are not spanked that I'm speaking of are also ones where the parents are 1) New parents that care but have had no training/support on child rearing/discipline. 2) Parents that have a difficult time telling their children no.

Children who acted out due to being spanked excessively/abused are a whole different story. About 18 months ago I felt led to take a year away from my career to move to Reno, NV and work at a shelter for abused and neglected children. I finished my year there in May and we had some kids there that were literally almost beaten to death by their parents. These type of children either are quiet and withdrawn especially around adults or as you pointed out - very unruly and acting out in order to draw attention to themselves. In these heartbreaking cases the children misbehave/act out on purpose since it is the only way they were able to take their parents attention away from their substance abuse issues and to focus it on them. In their eyes negative attention ( even when resulting in a beating) was better than no attention at all.



HenriettasCat -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/11/2008 11:49:28 AM)

Actually I think you can reason with a 2 year old.

My first ds nearly always responded and appreciated an explantion as to why he was not allowed to do something.

My second ds is more strong willed and didn't used to respond as quickly at all (if anything he took a 'no' as an opportunity to push the boundary). The general rule of thumb in our house is to get to the child's level or whatever it takes to clearly get their undivided attention, explain that they are not to do it and why. If they persist then you just say "no means no" pick them up and take them away from the situation. They may not like it but they will equally learn that you mean what you say.

Consistency is key. My now 3 year old is still wilful but he is now much more eager to listen and take instruction. I think that by reasoning and explaining why a behaviour is wrong helps that child take ownership of it for themselves. I am sure that most parents who spank probably do that anyway.

I'm wondering what kind of 'reasoning' has been witnessed by those of you who say it does not work. If you mean the begging kind of parenting eg 'Molly don't do that please, oh please...I have asked you and you might cut your finger off if you don't give me that knife back Molly please..." kind of parenting - well that's pathetic, but I really don't get why a child needs to feel physical pain in order for a parent to have their attention - unless maybe its an emergency situation and the child need a really sharp wake up call (such as misbehaving near a road).

[sm=kitty.gif]



scottishmomma46 -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/11/2008 11:51:12 AM)

yes i have known of some cases as well, but the parents that "beat" thier kids? well if they feel themselves being so mad they need to not discipline while they are feeling so mad, that is what i had to do many times when i was a single mom for 7 yrs.



W.O.F. -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/14/2008 9:51:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sideways

quote:

ORIGINAL: dyluck
I think that spare the rod perfectly applies (under the circumstances that warrants the rod). The bible ALWAYS should apply 100% in our lifes. God knows how to be a father better then us, thats for sure, and God doesn't spare his rod when we need discipline! Children were stoned for rebelion and disobediace back in the day. I feel the rod is rather tiny compared to that.


I am not saying that I know better then God, good gravy! I'm saying that my interpretation of the Bible reads that we should provide consistent, loving discipline, peppered with a lot of grace and mercy. Consistent, loving discipline does not need to take the form of a rod, and it is up to the parents what/if any situations warrant the rod.

Parents who discipline their children without corporal punishment can still be following God's word, depending on the lessons they are teaching their children.

Amen.



scottishmomma46 -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/15/2008 10:18:57 AM)

well in proverbs it says that if you love your child you will discpline, and that the rod will drive it far from them.
i go by what the word of God says it's not my opionion and who cares about my opinion it's God's word that counts.



Crysalismum -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/16/2008 12:14:45 AM)

I have a 18 month old baby girl who is so strong willed. When she gets mad she hits, spits, bites, pulls hair and throws things. She will back arch and throw herself to the ground in a rage. I have had her threw a huge paddy in the shops and had the older ladies "tut" at me & been told a good smack will fix that.
I am trying to to teach her not to smack us- she will hit my glasses off and smack me right in the face & bite when she doesnt get her way. I think that it is somehow kind of strange to say "Dont smack- smacking hurts" & then follow it up with a smack.
But I am at a loss as to what to do about it. we take cover and defend ourselves- turn her around, move out of range of the teeth etc but she is just too young to reason with, she doesnt get time out at all- it just makes her madder and she usually throws herself down so hard she hits her head and then she is crying cause she is hurt and that is not the point of the exercise. i am at a loss as to the benefit of a solid smack or not in this stage of toodlerhood.
what's some solutions?



3cappuccinosmom -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/16/2008 6:31:36 AM)

quote:

what's some solutions?


Whatever you do, be consistent. And win. Every time. Even if it takes an hour or two (or more) out of your day.

If I had an out of control young toddler, I might use gentle restraint. If she hit, I'd immediately grab her arm and hold it, with a firm "NO!". If she resisted or tantrumed, I'd pick her up, sit her on my lap, and wrap my arms around her so she couldn't get down. And then I'd wait for however long it took her to realize she lost that round. Then turn her around to face me, give her a smile and a kiss and a hug, and then let her get down.

Personally, I have no problem swatting an 18 month old. It is *not* a vengeful act. Not at all. [&:] If a toddler needs discipline, I have to stop whatever I'm doing, put my entire focus on him, and discipline him very calmly and deliberately. It is not to punish or hurt him. It is to drive into his little conciousness that hurting others or rebellious tantruming will always result in unpleasant consequences.



ffbruce -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/16/2008 9:38:37 AM)

There are some wonderful thoughts and experiences expressed here.

My wife & I did spank our 3 kids, though probably not very often. Our sons are now grown, and our daughter is nearly out of high school. I've asked each of them, on separate occasions, if they remember me spanking them. Each of them said "Yes." Then they told me what they remember. Inevitably, they told me about something I have no recollection of. And all 3 of them actually laughed about the spankings, as they told me their recollections. None of them thought they were ever wrongly spanked. I take that to mean that none of them feel at all abused by the few spankings they got - though I'm not quite sure why they all think it's so funny. [8|]


That said, I guess I've come to see that there is no absolute, fail-safe approach to disciplining our kids. Some kids need to be spanked, and others don't. Some parents are abusive in their spanking and others are not. Every kid has his/her own distinct personality & temperament, and parents need to work to guide and mold kids individually. And we also have to, somehow, do it with love and with long-term goals in mind.



scottishmomma46 -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/16/2008 9:48:45 AM)

well it sounds like she is testing her grounds. has she always done this? for how long? is she the only child?
then i will say you must be consistent in your discipline, and if she is as strong willed as you say she is? then, being consistant is and must be your first and middle and last name., i know when my daugther was testing my grounds when she was a baby and we were in the grocery store i would tell her this Misty you need to stop, NOW. then i would wait and if she did not stop i would not wait to long because her only being at the time 1 yr old they will forget it. so when she did it again (all 1 yr olds will try it again) i took her to the bathroom and gave her two good swats on the bottom and i made sure she felt it, now i did not beat her until she was crying so hard she could not get her breath......but i made sure she understand the reason for the spanking.
you cannot reason with a 1 yr old these people that think you can they are crazy and they are creating monsters. again i had to be consitant in this area with Misty and now she is 20 yrs old and i tell her about it and she remembers when she was 2 and 3 how i had to be very consistant in my discipline with her.
when your daughter bites......Misty tried that one time and i gave her a flick on her mouth and i made it sting, then i gave her the look and told her you may not bite that is unacceptable!!! i would look at her and make it seem that i would have arrows coming out of my eyes and she knew she better not bite again.
my dear i do not know how old you are, you are more than likely a new mom? and very young? you must set the rules from the start and you must let her know (with no words of course) that you are the parent and if your married that daddy is in charge as well.
i know children do not come with a instruction book but we have 4 children and before i remarried my now husband i was raising my 3 children by myself and i know at times it was hard but i did it.
hang in there and please keep in touch with me here is my email this really has me concerned scottishlady@carsoncomm.com
i want to help you.[sm=wave.gif][sm=angel.gif]



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