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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 6/12/2006 11:31:22 PM
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armydude
Posts: 15934
Joined: 2/12/2006
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quote:
but I assume you teach him first that something is wrong before you spank him. You assume correctly. I don't see the purpose of punishing anyone for something that person simply did not know was wrong. That of course does not apply to legal issues because it is our responsibility to know the law, but with the case of a child, it is the parents' responisibility to teach right from wrong, not the child's to learn it.
_____________________________
Nothing is certain but death and taxes?
No.
There is nothing certain but the Word of God.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 6/13/2006 7:34:01 PM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 1616
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: an ignoble beginning
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
but I assume you teach him first that something is wrong before you spank him. You assume correctly. I don't see the purpose of punishing anyone for something that person simply did not know was wrong. That of course does not apply to legal issues because it is our responsibility to know the law, but with the case of a child, it is the parents' responisibility to teach right from wrong, not the child's to learn it.
YES!!!!!!
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 6/19/2006 5:00:12 AM
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marcposs
Posts: 249
Joined: 4/27/2006
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DEUTERONOMY6:1-7
1 NOW these are the commandments, the statutes•, and the judgments•, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son’s son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged•.
3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
4 Hear•, O Israel: The LORD our God is one• LORD:
5 And thou shalt love• the LORD thy God with all thine bheart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might•.
6 And these words•, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart•:
7 And thou shalt teach• them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk• of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up
As a last resort as it is written.
Proverbs 23:13-14
13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
It's out of LOVE to use the rod because we want our children to walk upright in the Lords site.
Why do children dis obey their parents? Because it's in them...original sin.
Marc
< Message edited by marcposs -- 6/19/2006 5:05:28 AM >
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 6/22/2006 3:04:12 PM
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Graceinme
Posts: 1
Joined: 6/22/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sunnymom
I think it would help to define spanking. Too many times when folks think about spanking, they think about a kid getting yanked up by their elbow, and being swatted multiple times on the behind while the parent is yelling and turning three shades of red. That is a parents losing control and pitching a fit on their kids. That is not spanking, Biblical or otherwise.
I think Biblical chastisement includes the use of corporal punishment- the use of a rod, stick, switch, ruler, wooden spoon..... to inflict discomfort to the behind of a child who has exhibited rebellious behavior.
This chastisement should be fully expected by said child, who is aware of the rules of proper behavior, and has chosen to disobey.
Spanking is not the only form of punishment avaliable to the parent, but it can be every effective when done properly. I have seen it time and time again drive the foolishness from a child, as well as save their life- because children who are given mutliple chances to disobey also increase their chances of becoming road pizza. Children who are constantly 'reasoned with' expect explanations before compliance. There is nothing wrong with expecting instant, unquestioning obedience in children. It is a model for what God expects from us.
And as a parent who attempts to model how God deals with us, I also employ the use of natural consequences and the removal of privileges, as well as mercy and long-suffering. It is a prayerful balance.
Great Job I agree 100% with Sunnymom, the right time, for the right reason, with a calm state of mind. Additionally they need to understand what they have done wrong. To many times you see a backhand to the butt with no explanation or exchange of words. Communication is important with our children. Sometimes all they need is someone to talk to them.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 9/9/2006 12:48:26 PM
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Hagnismos
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A rod for the backs of fools! The last thing you want is for your child to grow up being a fool, so discipline them in such a way that they are in love with God, love themselves and others, are wise, respectful etc. I do sometimes swat my daughter on the butte, but it is a last resort. And she knows me well enough now as to be able to stay far away from the situations that might bring forth a spanking. In reality the swat on the butte or the slap on the hand only works for about the period from 3-6. Alot of people say not to use it at all, but I think in that period there are times where the behavior is dangerous to the child, you cannot explain well enough in "toddler" and you have to leave a lasting impression (like don't run out into the street!).
The issue is more one of healthy boundaries and respect, modeling the consistency of God to them, loving them freely and making sure you pay enough attention. Once you get a child that has a flagging self esteem they are easy pray for other children. Trying to keep them from seeing you fighting or even arguing with your spouse is very important too, they internalize things like that and can feel challenged to take one side or the other.
The bigggest thing you can do for your child is to always be a person they can look up to and teach truth to them, sober truth when the teachable moments come up. Let them see you praying and studying, but most importantly exemplifying Christian character. Actions and attitudes speak louder than words. This of course requires us to seek God with all our hearts as it should be. Disciplining a child with a raised voice or with a spank out of frustration is not good, they will learn to emulate you and will do so for many years before they even understand where the pattern came from. What a blessed and horrible responsibility we have to our children. Jesus said it would be better to have a millstone hung around our necks and be tossed into the sea than to make one of these little ones to stumble. When we look and see how harmful parenting has affected society it is clear He knew what He was talking about.
God's grace to all parents, that they might find the joy of satisfaction in parenting that He intended.
H
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 9/11/2006 1:21:33 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 891
Joined: 1/23/2006
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An effective thing I told my kids when they started whining too much or complaining about the meal I made for them, or the clothes they wanted and I didn't have the money for ,, I told them -
"Complainers get NOTHING'.. That shut them up!
When they said to me "You made me mad" I told them -
"I cant make you mad. you CHOOSE to get mad. "
This drove my daughter crazy.. But now that she is in college, she realizes ITS TRUE!
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 9/13/2006 3:55:35 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1200
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: marcposs
DEUTERONOMY6:1-7
1 NOW these are the commandments, the statutes•, and the judgments•, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son’s son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged•.
3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
4 Hear•, O Israel: The LORD our God is one• LORD:
5 And thou shalt love• the LORD thy God with all thine bheart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might•.
6 And these words•, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart•:
7 And thou shalt teach• them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk• of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up
As a last resort as it is written.
Proverbs 23:13-14
13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
It's out of LOVE to use the rod because we want our children to walk upright in the Lords site.
Why do children dis obey their parents? Because it's in them...original sin.
Marc
Also....
Prov 13:24
24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
(KJV)
Prov 19:18
18 Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying.
(KJV)
Prov 29:15
15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.
(KJV)
Prov 29:17
17 Correct thy son, and he shall give thee rest; yea, he shall give delight unto thy soul.
(KJV)
Heb 12:11
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
(KJV)
Always to be done in love, control and discipline, and never in anger.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 9/18/2006 6:38:56 PM
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KyleLarson
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My 2 cents worth on the topic is that there is nothing wrong with a spanking when given in a calm manner by a loving parent. My brother and I were spanked when we were younger, and are still spanked now when we deserve it (I'm 17 and he's 10). I know that some of you will be livid at the idea of spanking a 17 year old, but the simple fact is that, for me, they are an effective form of punishment. There are other teens who wouldn't respond well to spankings at all, and for them all that a spanking would be is emotional abuse. My dad never yells at us when we're in trouble, just lets us know what we've done wrong and how we'll be punished for it. Spankings do me a lot of good, and if I ever have kids, I'll discipline them in the same loving manner.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 10/11/2006 6:37:05 PM
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wallflower1996
Posts: 87
Joined: 10/7/2006
From: USA
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I posted this on the other board, but I suppose it belongs here more:
My mother was very traditional in her discipline methods, which were spanking and grounding. "Grounding", though, was a whole smorgasbord of punishments rolled into one. The spankings were administered with an open hand up to age 6 and a wooden spoon from ages 6-14, on my bare behind, and believe me, mom didn't quit spanking me until she was sure I knew I'd been punished. After it I was always required to apologize for my misconduct.
After a spanking I would also get grounded to my room at least for the day, but at times (when I really screwed up) it could be up to 4 weeks. Whatever the duration of the grounding, while it was going on I had extra chores and an early bedtime. When I wasn't doing chores, eating or using the bathroom I was sitting on my bed. I could read, and that was it.
On some occasions when I was grounded, if mom had no more chores to give me and she thought sitting on my bed reading was too easy a punishment for my particular offense, I had to stand with my nose in the living room corner for most of the day.
My mother was very strict even by 1970s/80s standards. Would I trade my childhood for anyone else's? Not a chance. The punishments I got helped me learn self-control, and self-discipline, and the fact that the world did not revolve around my every whim. If I could go back and live it over again I wouldn't change a thing. I revered my mom as a kid and always tried to please her.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 10/12/2006 5:56:58 PM
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wallflower1996
Posts: 87
Joined: 10/7/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
Wallflower, that is so interesting. I know some "gentle discipline" advocates who would say you are suffering from PTSD because you don't think your mom was abusive. They think anyone who agrees that their parents were right to spank has some mental disorder and is in denial. 
Anyway, I just wanted to say, your post gave me hope. We are not quite as strict as your mom, but it's good to know that others besides myself appreciated their parents loving concern and discipline. I hope my children will grow up to understand that the spankings they got were motivated out of our love for them and our desire for them to be Godly, self-controlled, decent human beings.
Glad you found some value in what I wrote. Not everyone can really relate to having had a strict upbringing. It's not fashionable anymore, lol. And it may not be the right way for every parent. But as a general rule, it seems to me that the more totally and unapologetically assert power as a parent, the more time you have for things that are more productive than power struggles. Because paradoxically my mom and I were very close--just not close in a way that left me in doubt for half a second who was boss in the house.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/16/2006 6:39:11 AM
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soldier6531
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I come from a family with 3 older brothers and 2 older sisters, I learned ALOT by watching my older siblings being corrected and am ashamed to say have experienced my fair share of corrections. Probably the worst thing from my personal experience was DAD giving me his "Old Timer" and saying "Go and Get me a switch". The mental anguish of this was having to prepare your own punishment, bring a wimpy switch and get twice as much or get a stout one and suffer quickly but painfully. I believe this was a just discipline for me. I have Never been in trouble criminally, I have a Loving wife and two Loving children now. I do believe children need correction BUT there is a line between correction and Abuse. I dont think alot of people can differentiate between the two. Where I live, You have to be careful about discipline in public for fear of incarceration. God will be the final authority for dicsipline.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/16/2006 1:44:12 PM
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Brooke313
Posts: 112
Joined: 10/24/2006
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BOth my husband and I were abused as kids. My parents thought they were just spanking as discipline, but so many times they were angry, so it was usually a lot harder than they intended. My husband and I decided a long time ago, that we would use spanking sparingly and stop the cycle of abuse. We have two teenage daughters and we have not had to spank them w whole lot. In fact, I can't remember the last time either of them got a spanking, but when they needed it, they got it and they knew it before hand. However, there were always lots of hugs and kisses and loves after. We never spanked them in anger.
Our teens are good kids and they know right from wrong and they know that if the necessity arose, they would get a spanking. I believe that more kids need to be spanked, but that there is a huge difference between abuse and spanking. If done in love and with correction in mind, I believe that spanking is a good tool in the parental toolbox of discipline. Remember the Bible tells us that if we spare the rod, we spoinl the child. 
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/17/2006 7:33:39 PM
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sorceedea
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Well, i do have soemthing to say as far as my oppinion goes about this topic that is so commonly taught and spoken of in all churches etc. First off i would like to add that my mother never layed a hand on me and i never did the things that most children now days do. Needlestosay, my other siblings as well. I do believe however, that the appropriate way to descipline a child is witht he "FEAR OF GOD" meaning, to teach them his word as soon as you give birth to them or even before if at all possible. I believe that "THE ROD" that is spoken of in the bible is not literally spanking but rather the bible. If used correctly with intelligence, love, peace, and most importantly faith you will get good resutls. My mother has always communicated with me and through disciple of MOUTH not by physical touch. Depending on how rebellious your child turns out maybe a slight spanking will do good but i honestly don't think it's required as long as you use the bible and sit down and speak to your child with love explaining what he/she did wrong etc. When you use God's knowledge and God's love, nothing goes wrong which is why i believe it is important to teach your child about the bible the right way. Perhaps many will not agree with me but again, it's using God's intelligence to create a well established child who's pleasing to God's eye's. Reinforcing is a major key to disciplining a child. Remember, teaching and raising a child is the same thing as taking care of a pet. You have responsibilities to teach them and there is so many right ways to do it without hitting just using LOVE :-).
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/17/2006 9:11:41 PM
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wallflower1996
Posts: 87
Joined: 10/7/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Brooke313
BOth my husband and I were abused as kids. My parents thought they were just spanking as discipline, but so many times they were angry, so it was usually a lot harder than they intended.
What was it that made the spankings abusive--did they hit in places other than the bottom? Did they leave bruises a lot?
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/18/2006 7:51:16 AM
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Sunnymom
Posts: 1908
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Did anyone read the article on Crosswalk about spanking? If not, here it is.
Excerpt:
quote:
Still more important than what the experts say about spanking is what the Bible teaches. Some may find it a surprise, but the Bible commends corporal punishment in King Solomon's words: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes" (Proverbs 13:24). Some religious leaders, however, say the word "rod" in this text wasn't meant to be taken literally. In an article titled, "Children and the Rod of Correction," Dr. Dave Miller of Apologetics Press effectively addresses this misinterpretation:
"Lest someone get the idea that Solomon used the term 'rod' figuratively, without intending to leave the impression that parents should actually strike their children with a rod, he clarified the target: 'Do not withhold correction from a child, for if you beat him with a rod, he will not die. You shall beat him with a rod, and deliver his soul from hell' (Proverbs 23:13-14). A proper balance is obviously needed between verbal reproof and encouragement on the one hand, and the application of corporal punishment on the other, as seen in the following words: 'The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a child left to himself brings shame to his mother. Correct your son, and he will give you rest; yes, he will give delight to your soul' (Proverbs 29:15, 17, emphasis added). The immense importance of the interplay between positive instruction, encouragement, and nurturing, in conjunction with appropriate physical punishment, cannot be overestimated nor successfully discounted."
_____________________________
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/22/2006 11:22:58 AM
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bzirk
Posts: 3065
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
Status: offline
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Here's what I know. Some of us are pretty stubborn, and talking alone isn't going to do the job of instilling discipline. Denial of privileges is not going to do the job either. Some of us only understand pain to our person. Whether that's politically incorrect to say, that's a reality.
Here's something that's true:
"Blows and wounds cleanse away evil, and beatings purge the inmost being."
Does that give license for someone who is mean to beat the snot out of someone else? No, it doesn't.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2006 6:59:43 PM
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LRC
Posts: 1
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I agree with TammyIsBlessed - well put, and the spanking is utilized as it should be. I was spanked as a child - but only at certain times, and I knew it was coming ....and, to tell you the truth, many times I knew I was pressing a button! But, I do thank God that my parents implemented some sort of discipline/ guidance for me - it's their job!
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Bare bottom spanking? - 1/1/2007 6:27:24 PM
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wallflower1996
Posts: 87
Joined: 10/7/2006
From: USA
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I've had a number of conversations with people over the years (some Christian, some not) who seem genuinely disturbed by the concept of spanking kids on the bare bottom. When I was a kid, it seemed like everyone was spanked that way. Is there a regional difference, or a generation difference going on here? Any clarification of this is appreciated.
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RE: Bare bottom spanking? - 1/1/2007 6:30:49 PM
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manda59
Posts: 5721
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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I think that spanking on the bare bottom is degrading to a child, and could well lead to psychological problems later, especially regarding sexual matters.
< Message edited by manda59 -- 1/1/2007 8:43:45 PM >
_____________________________
"I love Manda's suggestion to just laugh most of it off.."
Tinkerbell, September 2008
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RE: Bare bottom spanking? - 1/1/2007 6:31:11 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 3065
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wallflower1996
I've had a number of conversations with people over the years (some Christian, some not) who seem genuinely disturbed by the concept of spanking kids on the bare bottom. When I was a kid, it seemed like everyone was spanked that way. Is there a regional difference, or a generation difference going on here? Any clarification of this is appreciated.
I've seen this too. I think it's generational and not so much regional although it may be more predominant in certain regions as opposed to others.
For the record, I think spanking is fine to use as a disciplinary tool. It's not the only tool I've used, but it's one of them.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Bare bottom spanking? - 1/1/2007 6:59:30 PM
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karlie
Posts: 16924
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: Central California
Status: online
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quote:
I've had a number of conversations with people over the years (some Christian, some not) who seem genuinely disturbed by the concept of spanking kids on the bare bottom. When I was a kid, it seemed like everyone was spanked that way. Is there a regional difference, or a generation difference going on here? Any clarification of this is appreciated.
While I am not opposed to spanking done correctly, I am very opposed to bare-bottom spanking. No one, not even a child, should be asked to strip and expose themselves for punishment. That's beyond humiliating and I think can cause a lot of issues with nudity and intimacy later on. I personally find it highly inapporpriate and crossing a line that never should be crossed with a child.
_____________________________
You can't stop the waves, but you can learn how to surf.
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RE: Bare bottom spanking? - 1/1/2007 7:01:32 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 3065
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: karlie
quote:
I've had a number of conversations with people over the years (some Christian, some not) who seem genuinely disturbed by the concept of spanking kids on the bare bottom. When I was a kid, it seemed like everyone was spanked that way. Is there a regional difference, or a generation difference going on here? Any clarification of this is appreciated.
While I am not opposed to spanking done correctly, I am very opposed to bare-bottom spanking. No one, not even a child, should be asked to strip and expose themselves for punishment. That's beyond humiliating and I think can cause a lot of issues with nudity and intimacy later on. I personally find it highly inapporpriate and crossing a line that never should be crossed with a child.
I read that so fast, I didn't see the "bare bottom" reference. I have never spanked my kids' bare bottoms, and mine was never spanked that way. I do think that's a little much.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Bare bottom spanking? - 1/2/2007 8:13:33 PM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 1616
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: an ignoble beginning
Status: offline
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I never received nor have I ever given a bare bottom spanking (okay..once...when my naked child in the bathtub refused to sit down I swatted her leg once) for a number of reasons.
The reasons I don't do bare bottom spanking is:
1)..the main reason everyone I know refuses to...discipline is NOT supposed to be humiliated or shame causing
2) It is easy to damage the skin and underlying tissue when there is not a layer of clothes between them..even if you don't spank hard..but especially if someone uses a "tool" to spank with.
3)..my kids are usually clothed...why would I ask them to undress?
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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