RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread

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lastblast -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/26/2008 9:19:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE I know of a young couple at a local church with 3 boys and another on the way. He is divorced once, this is his second marriage. His first wife is married to a Muslim. Does anyone think this man should leave his pregnant wife and 3 boys (soon to be four boys!) and rejoin with his now Muslim wife? He is to do what with the boys? Take them to be raised in a home with a Muslim mother , who is unstable in other ways . Leave them with their pregnant mom? (How likely that his first wife would take him and all his children in and that his second would allow him to take them? Not likely on either counts). Peoples lives are not cut and dried scenarios in which you follow the letter of the law but not the spirit. Actually this was the one thing Jesus preached against. Kids would be raised in a home with unchristian influence (Muslim mom who is mentally unstable due to drugs) or left with their mom and newborn baby brother, and hey, she'd just have to get up and get a job and support them!~How she would pay to feed, clothe, and deal with her broken heart etc is a good question to toss in here. )They are now in a thriving loving Christian home getting to know the Savior who dearly loves them. think about it.......... This should be posted in the divorce/remarriage thread, not here, Tater.

TATERBUGLETTE -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/26/2008 9:13:48 PM)
ah so sorry. I'll move over there.

Roberta_ -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/28/2008 3:25:47 PM)
How does one repent of divorce?

WesP -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/28/2008 4:39:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva How does one repent of divorce? The same way one repents of everything else (assuming the divorce was the person's fault). Humble yourself, seek God's face, repent, and turn from your evil ways (don't marry a non-Christian, don't seek divorce, etc.). [;)]

Roberta_ -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/28/2008 9:14:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WesP quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva How does one repent of divorce? The same way one repents of everything else (assuming the divorce was the person's fault). Humble yourself, seek God's face, repent, and turn from your evil ways (don't marry a non-Christian, don't seek divorce, etc.). [;)] But once a divorce is done, it's done. It's really hard to undo it and it can't be undone if both parties aren't willing.

SealedEternal -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/28/2008 9:40:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva How does one repent of divorce? To "repent" means to "change your mind" and "turn around from what you've been doing", so to repent of divorce would mean to seek reconciliation with the one you divorced. SealedEternal

lastblast -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/29/2008 7:38:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SealedEternal To "repent" means to "change your mind" and "turn around from what you've been doing", so to repent of divorce would mean to seek reconciliation with the one you divorced. SealedEternal Yes, absoltutely. When one divorces, they are trying to separate what God has joined together (if it is one's covenant marriage). To repent of that would mean one realizes that they truly cannot nor should not try to separate what God has joined together for life. To repent is to turn away from that thinking/the actions involved and try to restore the marriage. It may take little time, it may take many years, or the other person may remain hardhearted and unrepentant. However, for the person TRYING to reconcile, they are now doing right in the sight of God by being of the SAME mindset and heart as He is.

Roberta_ -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/29/2008 12:12:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lastblast quote: ORIGINAL: SealedEternal To "repent" means to "change your mind" and "turn around from what you've been doing", so to repent of divorce would mean to seek reconciliation with the one you divorced. SealedEternal Yes, absolutely. When one divorces, they are trying to separate what God has joined together (if it is one's covenant marriage). To repent of that would mean one realizes that they truly cannot nor should not try to separate what God has joined together for life. To repent is to turn away from that thinking/the actions involved and try to restore the marriage. It may take little time, it may take many years, or the other person may remain hardhearted and unrepentant. However, for the person TRYING to reconcile, they are now doing right in the sight of God by being of the SAME mindset and heart as He is. Thank you for your explanations. Now, if one divorces due to an abusive situation, the abuser is going to naturally want that person to return. However, that doesn't mean the abuser going to change their ways. Is the abusee being unrepentant if they choose to stay away until the abuser seeks help and earnestly works to change their abusive ways?

lastblast -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/29/2008 12:27:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva Is the abusee being unrepentant if they choose to stay away until the abuser seeks help and earnestly works to change their abusive ways? No, I don't view that as being unrepentant at all. The heart of the abusee SHOULD be (if they are a believer) desiring to see REAL change in their spouse and THEN desiring to see their marriage restored to a place God intended for them. Reconciliation cannot really happen when one is walking in willful unrepentance (the abuser). Hope that clarifies. Blessings.........

Roberta_ -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/29/2008 12:28:51 PM)
Thank you Cindy, that clarifies a lot!

WesP -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/29/2008 4:49:42 PM)
quote: The heart of the abusee SHOULD be (if they are a believer) desiring to see REAL change in their spouse and THEN desiring to see their marriage restored to a place God intended for them. Reconciliation cannot really happen when one is walking in willful unrepentance (the abuser). Why should someone who did not want a divorce be repentant? Case in point: if your spouse divorces you and sleeps around with whoever is near, has more children, marries another, divorces, etc., do you honestly think a person should desire a reconciliation? I can see praying for that person's salvation, but beyond that, forget it.

Roberta_ -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/29/2008 4:53:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WesP quote: The heart of the abusee SHOULD be (if they are a believer) desiring to see REAL change in their spouse and THEN desiring to see their marriage restored to a place God intended for them. Reconciliation cannot really happen when one is walking in willful unrepentance (the abuser). Why should someone who did not want a divorce be repentant? Case in point: if your spouse divorces you and sleeps around with whoever is near, has more children, marries another, divorces, etc., do you honestly think a person should desire a reconciliation? I can see praying for that person's salvation, but beyond that, forget it. Why not? What would it hurt?

TATERBUGLETTE -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/29/2008 5:40:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WesP quote: The heart of the abusee SHOULD be (if they are a believer) desiring to see REAL change in their spouse and THEN desiring to see their marriage restored to a place God intended for them. Reconciliation cannot really happen when one is walking in willful unrepentance (the abuser). Why should someone who did not want a divorce be repentant? Case in point: if your spouse divorces you and sleeps around with whoever is near, has more children, marries another, divorces, etc., do you honestly think a person should desire a reconciliation? I can see praying for that person's salvation, but beyond that, forget it. so true. so often the person who IS trying the hardest to keep things together...praying, getting counseling, reading all the books, etc..is made to feel they should be repentant. of what i may ask? they are not the ones messing it up. The rebellious spouse is the one who needs to repent. and its worth mentioning...in this day of AIDS and other std's, you are literally putting your life at risk to go back to a person who has been sleeping around . at best you must demand std testing in such a case.

Roberta_ -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/29/2008 5:42:50 PM)
If I'm starting to understand what Cindy and others are saying- repentance does not necessarily mean reconciliation, but reconciliation should be prayed for anyway?

TATERBUGLETTE -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/29/2008 9:32:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva If I'm starting to understand what Cindy and others are saying- repentance does not necessarily mean reconciliation, but reconciliation should be prayed for anyway? No where does God guarantee a wayward spouse will repent and return if we pray hard enough. It certainly DOES happen, our God still does miracles and is in the business of redeeming His wayward children! One cant repent of what one hasnt done. If your spouse left the marriage, why would you need to repent? You are not the guilty party. Its a twisting of Scripture, or a misunderstanding....or just plain old legalism......none of which are good

SealedEternal -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/29/2008 10:23:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva If I'm starting to understand what Cindy and others are saying- repentance does not necessarily mean reconciliation, but reconciliation should be prayed for anyway? No where does God guarantee a wayward spouse will repent and return if we pray hard enough. Nobody said there were any guarantees, but that doesn't mean we give up on someone. quote: One cant repent of what one hasnt done. If your spouse left the marriage, why would you need to repent? It all depends on the situation, but we are accountable for our end of the marriage covenant, and to the degree that we fail we need to repent. If one is completely innocent and had no part in the divorce whatsoever, then they have nothing to repent of. quote: You are not the guilty party. Its a twisting of Scripture, or a misunderstanding....or just plain old legalism......none of which are good Having the heart of Christ and He being our Lord, means loving our enemies, praying for those who persecute us, and turning the other cheek. That is the Law of love, and is the opposite of legalism. SealedEternal

lastblast -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/29/2008 11:56:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva If I'm starting to understand what Cindy and others are saying- repentance does not necessarily mean reconciliation, but reconciliation should be prayed for anyway? Absolutely...........why? Because if we belong to Jesus, then we should have the same heart He has. We are ministers of reconciliation. If we don't even pray for such in our own marriages, are we truly living IN HIM and For Him?

lastblast -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/30/2008 12:05:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE No where does God guarantee a wayward spouse will repent and return if we pray hard enough. It certainly DOES happen, our God still does miracles and is in the business of redeeming His wayward children! One cant repent of what one hasnt done. If your spouse left the marriage, why would you need to repent? You are not the guilty party. Its a twisting of Scripture, or a misunderstanding....or just plain old legalism......none of which are good Tater, VERY few people are completely innocent in the sight of God regarding their divorces. Whether one does the actual filing of paperwork or not does not indicate who is MORE guilty in the breakdown of the marriage. Sometimes the one who does NOT file is MORE guilty at causing the other to stumble into sin themselves because of how they treated their partner. Even so, if the "innocent" one did do all they could to hold their marriage together, you are right, there may not be a need to "repent" of the divorce if they were the one who did not do the filing. However, if they have a heart to NOT ever reconcile, they DO need to repent of that because their will is not in line with the Lord's will. That is not 'legalism'. It is called "abiding in Christ". If we are willfully NOT abiding in Christ, then we DO need to repent of whatever area of life we are not abiding in Him. Blessings..............

Roberta_ -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/30/2008 1:39:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva If I'm starting to understand what Cindy and others are saying- repentance does not necessarily mean reconciliation, but reconciliation should be prayed for anyway? No where does God guarantee a wayward spouse will repent and return if we pray hard enough. It certainly DOES happen, our God still does miracles and is in the business of redeeming His wayward children! One cant repent of what one hasn't done. If your spouse left the marriage, why would you need to repent? You are not the guilty party. Its a twisting of Scripture, or a misunderstanding....or just plain old legalism......none of which are good It takes two to get married. It takes two to get divorced. One person may have more reasons to get divorced, but that doesn't make them innocent on all accounts. They do have some amount, however small, of guilt towards the destruction of the marriage.

Roberta_ -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/30/2008 1:42:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lastblast quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva If I'm starting to understand what Cindy and others are saying- repentance does not necessarily mean reconciliation, but reconciliation should be prayed for anyway? Absolutely...........why? Because if we belong to Jesus, then we should have the same heart He has. We are ministers of reconciliation. If we don't even pray for such in our own marriages, are we truly living IN HIM and For Him? On that, we agree 100%! Thank you for your patience and clarity in explaining this to me. You are a skilled teacher.

blessednw -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/30/2008 2:52:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SealedEternal quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva How does one repent of divorce? To "repent" means to "change your mind" and "turn around from what you've been doing", so to repent of divorce would mean to seek reconciliation with the one you divorced. SealedEternal Turn around and go the other way. Repentance. It also means to do right to those you have wronged. And one person can repent. Ideally, both people guilty of "giving up" on their commitment to God would repent at the same time, thereby having cleansed consciences and seeing things with a humbled heart. That can change old stubborn hardened attitudes. That can be the reconciliation that is the antidote to the "irreconcilable differences", which is 99% of the time cited in divorce cases as the reason for the "irremedial breakdown of the relationship". When one person repents, it can take down the "wall" of offense whereby there was an inability to be open to God doing any kind of restoration work in the relationship. It is repentance to God that is first most important, and then most likely, the Holy Spirit would empower and move on the repentant heart to make amends to the spouse that they may have hardened against. If God is moving on a person to repent of divorce, they can stop supporting divorce and that mindset, starting with their own association with divorce. Divorce, to my understanding, is an ongoing system of behavior that maintains a divide (sometimes at all costs) and is not just an act that is final at a certain hour on a certain day. IT TAKES EFFORT TO MAINTAIN A DIVORCE. It is a maintained "state of being" of an attitude of lack of reconciliation in a critical relationship. It is a stance. It has a language and a subculture too. Two idiomatic expressions in this subculture's language are italicized above. Even if a reconciliation is sought , and repudiated, there can be peace and joy if one has repented before God and determined to walk in an upright way with Him at this time, as Scriptures teach us how to do: remain unmarried or be reconciled. There is also a great change of climate/atmosphere due to the unwillingness to maintain hard walls and wrong attitudes. There is forgiveness and there is grace for repentant souls.

blessednw -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/30/2008 3:03:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lastblast quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva If I'm starting to understand what Cindy and others are saying- repentance does not necessarily mean reconciliation, but reconciliation should be prayed for anyway? Absolutely...........why? Because if we belong to Jesus, then we should have the same heart He has. We are ministers of reconciliation. If we don't even pray for such in our own marriages, are we truly living IN HIM and For Him? Also, prayer for God's heart in a matter(reconciliation of covenant marriages) keeps our hearts softened. God knows that we do not do a good job of softening our own hearts, and He knows that by praying for things (in everything, giving thanks, let your requests be made known to God), we connect with His heart. When we pray, we begin to connect with His all loving heart, we begin to get a bigger picture than just our own little world of hurt and self righteous anger (behind alot of offenses that can lead to a divorce mindset). We start to get tiny glimpses of the vast mercy and patience of God for those who are in rebellion. We start to see our own need for mercy, and we begin to understand the saying, " "....there but for the grace of God go I....." and start to see the seriousness of a mate's rebellion to God. And that brings one back to what is most important. We are ministers of reconciliation. That means that we are more concerned with the reconciliation of sinners to God than our own desire for blessings in this life.

car2ner -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/30/2008 8:20:07 AM)
quote: which is 99% of the time cited in divorce cases as the reason for the "irremedial breakdown of the relationship". This is just legal wording. Many states, as far as I know, don't require any specific reason. The real reason may be anything from "my spouse snores too loudly" to "my spouse tried to kill me". So this is not percentage is not valid to the debate.

TATERBUGLETTE -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/30/2008 10:21:12 AM)
It takes two to get married. It takes two to get divorced. One person may have more reasons to get divorced, but that doesn't make them innocent on all accounts. They do have some amount, however small, of guilt towards the destruction of the marriage. [/quote] i cant agree with that. It only takes one to get divorced. We are all sinners of course, imperfect, we all make mistakes. Why should someone feel guilty when they were deserted by a spouse?

blessednw -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/31/2008 12:25:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE It takes two to get married. It takes two to get divorced. One person may have more reasons to get divorced, but that doesn't make them innocent on all accounts. They do have some amount, however small, of guilt towards the destruction of the marriage. i cant agree with that. It only takes one to get divorced. We are all sinners of course, imperfect, we all make mistakes. Why should someone feel guilty when they were deserted by a spouse? Whether the guilt or accountability may not be towards the "destruction" of the marriage or not.....all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Each one can acknowledge their faults and shortcomings before God. It may take some time and the humblings and trials of life to help us see, since sometimes, when one is hurt or otherwise offended (or you could say, "has more reasons to divorce"), it is very hard to see one's own weaknesses. Usually the "offensive" one's "bad" is glaring, and the "good" one is seemingly without fault. I don't see how that is possible, given that we all fall and we all are "in the flesh" and we don't always admit it readily and repent to one another.

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