RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread

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lastblast -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/20/2008 8:58:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE SO you are saying they are to break up the home of that innocent child...another family down the tubes? is that what you are saying? I'm not going to get into this area as this is restricted to the topic of divorce. You can post your question in the divorce/remarriage area and I will answer you there. I will ask you a question: Can we find in God's Word where a divorce dissolves the union He joins together?

TATERBUGLETTE -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/20/2008 9:35:08 AM)
I see ...Cindy...that this question disturbs your theology deeply.... ....so you simply refuse to answer. Nice dodge. It has everything to do divorce, you just dont like to answer for it reveals your theology to be what it is...ridiculous. And cruel. Since you and one other are the only ones who really post here regularly (most leave after a few posts its so off base) , yall have at it and enjoy.

Roberta_ -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/20/2008 11:08:26 AM)
Hi Cindy- It gets tricky when threads are similar to keep track of what you are posting and where. Thanks for helping us stay on topic. quote: ORIGINAL: lastblast I will ask you a question: Can we find in God's Word where a divorce dissolves the union He joins together? Honestly, no. Honestly, I've never looked for it.

Fritzpw_Admin -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/20/2008 11:12:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE I see ...Cindy...that this question disturbs your theology deeply.... ....so you simply refuse to answer. Nice dodge. It has everything to do divorce, you just dont like to answer for it reveals your theology to be what it is...ridiculous. And cruel. Since you and one other are the only ones who really post here regularly (most leave after a few posts its so off base) , yall have at it and enjoy. No, not a dodge. YOU were off-topic and Cindy is self-moderating... something I wish more members would do. Keep it on topic and please refrain from resorting to this sort of response. If you can't keep it on topic you will force me to restrict you from these topics. Please do not reply to this message within the Community. Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns. Please do not send me PMs regarding this message. Messages which disregard the words in red will be removed without warning and the poster may also be banned.

cadz -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/20/2008 12:53:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE I see ...Cindy...that this question disturbs your theology deeply.... ....so you simply refuse to answer. Nice dodge. It has everything to do divorce, you just dont like to answer for it reveals your theology to be what it is...ridiculous. And cruel. Since you and one other are the only ones who really post here regularly (most leave after a few posts its so off base) , yall have at it and enjoy. Cindy has answered these questions many times and the answers have been recorded in this faq below if folks would take the time to read it. What About The Children Of Remarriage? The complete FAQ with Cindy's answers is here Frequently Asked Questions, Comments and Arguments about Marriage Divorce & Remarriage

blessednw -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/20/2008 4:16:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lastblast quote: Those who hold the view Lastblast does can only stand and "support" those who have been divorced by their spouses not those who have divorced their spouses. It's clear from scanning through postings that those who have divorced their spouses stand condemned according to the view held which opposes all divorces. Again, not true. There are some in my fellowship who initiated divorce..........and later saw the error of their way or felt it was the only way to get legal support for their children. However, the common thread that unites us is that we see, even in the case of divorce, that the union God joins together is NOT dissolved due to the divorce.............and that it is God's Will/heart for the ones He joined together to forsake their sin and come to reconciliation/restoration. quote: When they come across the person who does not believe that divorcing their spouse was sin, what support can they provide such a one without compromising their own stand on this issue? In such situations, one has to be led of the Lord in order to know what to do. There is no "blanket" answer----every situation is different. Sometimes the Lord leads us to give to those in sin because of Grace/mercy. Those of us who believe in the permanency of marriage---even after a divorce, realize that some are very blinded to their sin and the destruction they have wrought on other's lives. In some of those cases, it may not be the "discipline of God" that brings them to repentance, but the "goodness" of God, through His merciful provision in spite of their sin. Only God knows what each needs to bring a person to Him and in alignment with His will. ....one must be led. You may not agree with someone's actions, but you may still be led to help with food and shelter. This is no different than any other situation you feel God is leading you to reach out to.

blessednw -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/20/2008 4:44:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BibleBased I don't know - i had this thread recommended to me, i post and i'm totally ignored! Lastblast and keeping faith, from the posts since my one yesterday, you seem like my kind of people. Are you church goers? - or biblebased like me, because the churches are soooooo awful and unbiblical? The only people recommending divorce are those who want to do it! They put their immediate life before Salvation and God's eternal Word, the bible. The same people, generally want homosexuality not to be a sin, women priests, all the things that have changed in the world. SATAN's world. So we must follow suit or the churches will be empty. Wake up, church attendance in the UK anyway is so low (4% yes 4% go and 96% DON'T!) because the bible isn't there and nor is God's Spirit! If we do actually believe in the POWER of God, then we would teach and live biblically and God would have true believers flocking to the churches. Instead people lean on their own cleverness, education and strength and look at the mess the churches are in because of it! Obey God's eternal WISDOM in the bible. Relax you mind, allow yourself to be weak and God strong in your life. Stop looking for loop holes, or get out clauses. Divorce is not biblical! If you divide the 1 God has made - you get 2 halves of that one, NOT 1 person and another 1 person. It is a sin to marry a divorced person or for a divorced person to get married. Have we looked at a serious 'sexual sin' and its meaning. Someone please answer that one? Is it your get out clause? I believe NO, it's just misunderstood and mistaught. Lastblast & keepingfaith - i'll add you to the list of people on this site who restore my faith in God's family of believers. If you have more of what you have said above, i'd start a church with you! Love to ALL readers/ posters, BibleBased. Hi Biblebased, You speak some excellent truth in what you say. God's word is timeless and cannot be destroyed. We western christians have succumbed to many things rather than radically obeying Jesus and His commands. We have extensive theologies that have been developed here in this country (and spread far and wide) that talk new believers out of the idea of obedience and a holy lifestyle. And we wonder why we lack revival and radical vision to reach the lost. Only God can open the eyes. Only a great shaking can sometimes wake up a lukewarm and church who is in a type of stupor. I think many believers have gone through a great shaking, found out the divorce mindset/culture/vocabulary is not what brings them close to God's heart and so have repented from too much association of that way of thought. Maybe it is another "system" of thought that God is dealing with. I know some different folks who are called to speak uncomfortable truth in other areas, with the same conviction and return to biblical truth as has been exhibited here. Whatever gets us to disobey God, and to find ways to circumvent what He plainly has told us in the revelation He has given us, is deception, out of sin. Deception's very nature is subtle. It is not open and belligerent, usually. Somehow, the serpent in the garden was not appealing to Eve in a way that offended or scared her, but rather he appealed to her "specialness" somehow. "Did God REALLY say that you must not eat from any tree in the garden?".... getting her to question God's clear warning. She might be missing out on something she "should" have. She entertained those thoughts and fell to the seduction/lie that she would be "even better off" if she followed the serpent's lie. I believe that when we are seduced into sin, (disobeying God's commands), we are falling for the same line. The "church" used to think divorce should be avoided at all costs, based on what Jesus said, and God hating it. The "church" fell for the lie that questioned God's wisdom. The longer the "church" made ways to accommodate this unfortunate and painful (and sinful) choice to "cut off" , the further they got into justifying it. It's a mess, but somebody's gotta be willing to speak out when we have gone astray. Glad you came to visit here.

Roberta_ -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/20/2008 4:57:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blessednw quote: ORIGINAL: lastblast quote: Those who hold the view Lastblast does can only stand and "support" those who have been divorced by their spouses not those who have divorced their spouses. It's clear from scanning through postings that those who have divorced their spouses stand condemned according to the view held which opposes all divorces. Again, not true. There are some in my fellowship who initiated divorce..........and later saw the error of their way or felt it was the only way to get legal support for their children. However, the common thread that unites us is that we see, even in the case of divorce, that the union God joins together is NOT dissolved due to the divorce.............and that it is God's Will/heart for the ones He joined together to forsake their sin and come to reconciliation/restoration. quote: When they come across the person who does not believe that divorcing their spouse was sin, what support can they provide such a one without compromising their own stand on this issue? In such situations, one has to be led of the Lord in order to know what to do. There is no "blanket" answer----every situation is different. Sometimes the Lord leads us to give to those in sin because of Grace/mercy. Those of us who believe in the permanency of marriage---even after a divorce, realize that some are very blinded to their sin and the destruction they have wrought on other's lives. In some of those cases, it may not be the "discipline of God" that brings them to repentance, but the "goodness" of God, through His merciful provision in spite of their sin. Only God knows what each needs to bring a person to Him and in alignment with His will. ....one must be led. You may not agree with someone's actions, but you may still be led to help with food and shelter. This is no different than any other situation you feel God is leading you to reach out to. That is very cool to hear that you are still willing to help people out in this situation. [sm=thumbsup.gif]

blessednw -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/20/2008 5:01:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lastblast quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva Would you really tell that to a person who is in an abusive marriage? They must stay so that God can be glorified? NoONE has stated that a woman/person must stay IN THE HOUSEHOLD in the face of abuse. What many are saying is that SIN (which abuse is) does not dissolve a marriage joined by God. It is God's will to HEAL that broken marriage and nowhere do we find in scripture where He dissolves the marriage bond due to sin. God's heart is towards repentance/restoration with NO time limits, except death, which of course "frees" one in the eyes of the Lord from that union He joined as ONE FLESH. I would agree wholeheartedly with that. It certainly takes faith to believe God for changed hearts and minds. There is also the consequences which are unavoidable, of willful sin, which will be used in God's process.

blessednw -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/20/2008 5:12:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: car2ner This really is a tricky situation. Marriage is a holy and necessary part of God's plan but suffers greatly due to sin. To say that if one spouse does all the "right" things, pray (from a distance if need be) etc, then the abuser or abandoner will come around. But this does not happen. There are no twelve steps to make God make a spouse into a loving partner. Some scripture seems very black and white, yet there are times when even God has said, enough is enough. I agree with you that we don't control God. Making someone a loving partner is God's job, not ours. If our mate rebels against God, it is right for us to pray for them. The person acting like a fool by sinning against their family will have to answer to God too. They will not get away with everything even if it looks like they are or will. The bigger problem, the much more important thing, is whether will they make peace with God in this life, because they won't have an opportunity when its over. That is more important than a restored marriage, but I would venture to say when a repentant sinner is truly getting right with God, they have a new found conviction to get right in their relationships too, especially ones whereby they had a lifelong promise to God to keep and honor.

blessednw -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/20/2008 5:21:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva quote: ORIGINAL: lastblast quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva I get confused on some of the stances of those who agree with lastblast, ET AL. Do you believe that divorce is OK or mandatory for those who are in second marriages? I look at a second union contracted while one has a living spouse as adultery----not a marriage joined by God. So, if one is to disentangle (forsake a sinful relationship) themselves from that, yes, divorce would not be sin and would be "required" to show forth the fruits of repentance. For if one is truly ONE Flesh with another person, they should not be continuing to live with a different man/woman. But a divorce would not necessarily change the heart, so there would be no real repentance. denim, do you know some folks who left what they considered an "adulterous marriage"? I do. It helps to understand how they came to that. In the cases where I know this to be their story, they were convicted by simple bible reading. No one was preaching to them, interestingly enough. They know that they were duped by the culture, since it is kind of "in the water" we "fish" are swimming in, so it is hard not to be set up to think the way of remarriage-solves-the-loneliness-of-divorce. I am thinking right now of four believers I know. Each one said the same thing. The Holy Spirit convicted them when they were reading the Scriptures and in prayer. I was amazed when I first heard it. AS I have endeavored to obey God more directly in my own life, and learning that He is holding me accountable to seek out truth in His word, it is no longer surprising to me.

blessednw -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/20/2008 5:23:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva quote: ORIGINAL: blessednw quote: ORIGINAL: lastblast quote: Those who hold the view Lastblast does can only stand and "support" those who have been divorced by their spouses not those who have divorced their spouses. It's clear from scanning through postings that those who have divorced their spouses stand condemned according to the view held which opposes all divorces. Again, not true. There are some in my fellowship who initiated divorce..........and later saw the error of their way or felt it was the only way to get legal support for their children. However, the common thread that unites us is that we see, even in the case of divorce, that the union God joins together is NOT dissolved due to the divorce.............and that it is God's Will/heart for the ones He joined together to forsake their sin and come to reconciliation/restoration. quote: When they come across the person who does not believe that divorcing their spouse was sin, what support can they provide such a one without compromising their own stand on this issue? In such situations, one has to be led of the Lord in order to know what to do. There is no "blanket" answer----every situation is different. Sometimes the Lord leads us to give to those in sin because of Grace/mercy. Those of us who believe in the permanency of marriage---even after a divorce, realize that some are very blinded to their sin and the destruction they have wrought on other's lives. In some of those cases, it may not be the "discipline of God" that brings them to repentance, but the "goodness" of God, through His merciful provision in spite of their sin. Only God knows what each needs to bring a person to Him and in alignment with His will. ....one must be led. You may not agree with someone's actions, but you may still be led to help with food and shelter. This is no different than any other situation you feel God is leading you to reach out to. That is very cool to hear that you are still willing to help people out in this situation. [sm=thumbsup.gif] Right on! How can we not help when God Himself is moving in us and through us to help? He is deeply moved by the scattered sheep, and is relentless in pursuing those who have been blinded by his enemy.

car2ner -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/20/2008 5:46:21 PM)
quote: The bigger problem, the much more important thing, is whether will they make peace with God in this life, because they won't have an opportunity when its over. That is more important than a restored marriage, but I would venture to say when a repentant sinner is truly getting right with God, they have a new found conviction to get right in their relationships too, especially ones whereby they had a lifelong promise to God to keep and honor. I do agree that there are marriages that looked like they were going down in flames that have been pulled out of the fire. There is disagreement about what "get right in their relationships too" means to everyone. But that is the topic of another thread.

Roberta_ -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/21/2008 2:38:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lastblast Do you know the story of Ezra 9-10? Repentance REQUIRED the forsaking of forbidden marriages---and yes, there were children involved as well. Do you feel as strongly about original marriages being ripped apart and the children affected horribly by that...........or do you only feel strongly about tearing apart those unions that God has called adultery? Hi Cindy, You can ignore my pm to you if you like, needless to say I found the chapters in Ezra that you were talking about reading. I am bringing your post to the current page for others who might be interested in reading them too.

Roberta_ -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/21/2008 4:16:47 PM)
OK- I've read Ezra 9 and 10 in my NLT and here in The Message. I've also read the commentaries on it. The only thing that I can see is that they were in sin for marrying those who served foreign gods.

Roberta_ -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/21/2008 5:31:15 PM)
One of the things that I'm curious about is in Ezra 10:44, why did the men send the wives and their children away?

lastblast -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/21/2008 9:07:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva You can ignore my pm to you if you like, needless to say I found the chapters in Ezra that you were talking about reading. I am bringing your post to the current page for others who might be interested in reading them too. DD, I'm not sure what you are talking about regarding me ignoring your PM. It's not my habit of ignoring PM's unless they are nasty or such and even then, some of those I do answer. In any case, I answered both PM's you sent me regarding permission to repost what I wrote in the MDR section. I looked in my PM box and you have not sent me any other PM's, so like I said, I don't know what you are talking about.

lastblast -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/21/2008 9:13:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva One of the things that I'm curious about is in Ezra 10:44, why did the men send the wives and their children away? The only thing I can think of is because they were not "children of the covenant"......much like Ishmael and Hagar were sent away, because they were not part of the covenant God made with Abraham and Sara. We see God addressing the difference between "covenant" wife and non covenant wife also in Mal.2:10-17.

Roberta_ -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/22/2008 11:33:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lastblast quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva You can ignore my pm to you if you like, needless to say I found the chapters in Ezra that you were talking about reading. I am bringing your post to the current page for others who might be interested in reading them too. DD, I'm not sure what you are talking about regarding me ignoring your PM. It's not my habit of ignoring PM's unless they are nasty or such and even then, some of those I do answer. In any case, I answered both PM's you sent me regarding permission to repost what I wrote in the MDR section. I looked in my PM box and you have not sent me any other PM's, so like I said, I don't know what you are talking about. I just meant the pm that I sent you regarding what chapters in Ezra you had suggested for reading. I found the post, so I didn't need to have a response. It must have disappeared into cyber-space. I did not mean to imply that you would intentionally ignore a pm. Sorry if it came across that way.

Roberta_ -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/22/2008 11:37:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lastblast quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva One of the things that I'm curious about is in Ezra 10:44, why did the men send the wives and their children away? The only thing I can think of is because they were not "children of the covenant"......much like Ishmael and Hagar were sent away, because they were not part of the covenant God made with Abraham and Sara. We see God addressing the difference between "covenant" wife and non covenant wife also in Mal. 2:10-17. I had thought about that. However, since the wives were women who worshipped foreign gods, I would've thought that God would've wanted the children to stay with their fathers and learn about the one true God. However, God has always known what He's doing and I'm sure He had a reason for it. That's when I just have to remember to let God be Who He is. He sees the whole picture and hasn't made a mistake yet.

lastblast -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/22/2008 1:05:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva [I just meant the pm that I sent you regarding what chapters in Ezra you had suggested for reading. I found the post, so I didn't need to have a response. It must have disappeared into cyber-space. I did not mean to imply that you would intentionally ignore a pm. Sorry if it came across that way. No problem.[:)]

Roberta_ -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/23/2008 7:55:11 PM)
Cindy, your pm box is full. I just attempted to send you a pm but couldn't.

lastblast -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/24/2008 12:06:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lastblast quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva [I just meant the pm that I sent you regarding what chapters in Ezra you had suggested for reading. I found the post, so I didn't need to have a response. It must have disappeared into cyber-space. I did not mean to imply that you would intentionally ignore a pm. Sorry if it came across that way. No problem.[:)] Ok, let me clean it out. sorry about that.[:)]

Roberta_ -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/24/2008 11:21:31 AM)
Thanks Cindy. I just sent it to you again.

TATERBUGLETTE -> RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread (5/26/2008 8:57:48 AM)
I know of a young couple at a local church with 3 boys and another on the way. He is divorced once, this is his second marriage. His first wife is married to a Muslim. Does anyone think this man should leave his pregnant wife and 3 boys (soon to be four boys!) and rejoin with his now Muslim wife? He is to do what with the boys? Take them to be raised in a home with a Muslim mother , who is unstable in other ways . Leave them with their pregnant mom? (How likely that his first wife would take him and all his children in and that his second would allow him to take them? Not likely on either counts). Peoples lives are not cut and dried scenarios in which you follow the letter of the law but not the spirit. Actually this was the one thing Jesus preached against. Kids would be raised in a home with unchristian influence (Muslim mom who is mentally unstable due to drugs) or left with their mom and newborn baby brother, and hey, she'd just have to get up and get a job and support them!~How she would pay to feed, clothe, and deal with her broken heart etc is a good question to toss in here. )They are now in a thriving loving Christian home getting to know the Savior who dearly loves them. think about it..........

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