RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread

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SealedEternal -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 9:23:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SisterSheba Yes I do SE, just as I also accept these truthful scriptures. So you agree that everyone who divorces and remarries commits adultery as Jesus said there? quote: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of FORNICATION, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. Mat 5:32 Do you accept this text as truth? Yes I do. Do you agree that whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery as Jesus said there? quote: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed ADULTERY with her already in his heart. Mat 5:28 Why is just looking at a woman lustfully adultery? It is because this lustful person has already committed unlawful intercourse in his mind/heart with another person who was not his/her spouse. How many do this daily? How many are addicted to porn? I agree, and this is not behavior that a true child of God would willfully practice, and not be convicted of by His Spirit to bring them to repentance. quote: My point is, everyone has committed adultery in some way and if you hold those who have remarried in a continuous state of adultery, then you also need to hold those who are looking at a woman lustfully in a continuous state of adultery. Adultery is adultery no matter how you look at it. Absolutely true, but those who are born of God do not practice adultery in their heart or their body as their normal nature because God has sanctified us with his Spirit to free us from enslavement from such things. I'm not saying that we aren't all capable of having adulterous thoughts, but we agree with God that we are doing wrong and turn from our sin rather than continuously practicing it. Sin is continuous for as long as one continues to practice it. quote: I believe one can be forgiven for committing adultery, just like any other sin that is committed against God. It is not the unforgivable sin. I would like to see scripture that supports this "continuous" state of adultery that you claim? You believe all who have remarried with a living spouse are in a continuous state of adultery. Please back that claim up with the word of God. I already have. He said it is adultery which you said you accepted as true. Therefore by definition it is a sinful extramarital relationship, and the person is still married to the original spouse who they thought they divorced. The burden is on you to prove that committing adultery causes one to become married to the one they are committing it with, and dissolves their marriage covenant to their spouse, because that is antithetical to everything scripture says about marriage. quote: How do you explain the Samaritan woman's FIVE HUSBANDS? was she in a continuous state of adultery? She had FIVE HUSBANDS who Jesus recognized as her HUSBANDS or are you going to tell me that all five of her HUSBANDS died? I hope not, because that is NOT in scripture. First of all we have no idea what the status of her "husbands" are so it is impossible to draw a doctrinal position from the situation, and it wasn't the intent of the passage. Theoretically they all could have died for all we know, but we don't, and I doubt that's the case. The fact however is that you don't know either if she was divorced and remarried because that's not in the scripture either. My impression of the passage is that He was convicting her of her sin by asking about her husband and exposing her multiple marriages. He used the word "husband" because it is the term that is commonly used. That doesn't mean however that He was taking a doctrinal position that her marriages were all accepted as legal to God. In the same way He said "Everyone who divorces and remarries commits adultery. Obviously if it is adultery the person isn't legally "married" to the second person by definition, and they couldn't have successfully "divorced" the first person by definition. These are the terms of language used to describe certain acts and aren't meant to imply that they were necessarily done according to God's principles. The main point here is that you cannot draw a doctrinal position on marriage using this passage, because it wasn't recorded to tell us the proper way to handle marriage. In fact I believe part of the point Jesus was making to her is that this is not how marriage is supposed to be. We do have many very clear passages of scripture that do tell us what God allows and doesn't allow, so I don't know why anyone would look to use this as the foundation of their doctrine when it isn't giving us any clear instructions on the issue, while the others are. SealedEternal

SealedEternal -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 9:28:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SisterSheba Yes, let us remember this! When we show no mercy to the adulterers, we will be judged in the same manner by God, He will show NO mercy in His judgment upon us! The merciful and loving thing to do for sinners is to exhort them to repent and make Christ their Lord. He is their judge not us. We are in no position to punish them or forgive them for their sins since we are simply messengers, but we can and must warn them of the judgment to come. SealedEternal

keepingfaith -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 9:55:15 PM)
quote: I would like to see scripture that supports this "continuous" state of adultery that you claim? You believe all who have remarried with a living spouse are in a continuous state of adultery. Paul does say as long as her husband is alive she is still bound to him, so that would have to be a continuous state. The original Greek word for adultery in Luke 16:18 is Moixeu/w or Moicheuo and is a present indicative that shows a continuation of the sin. That same word is also found in John 8:4 where Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to go and sin no more. It is also used in Revelation 2:22 when Jesus was confronting the church of Thryatira for tolerating the sin of adultery with the evil woman Jezebel. Jesus told them they "must repent of their deeds."

keepingfaith -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 11:42:31 PM)
quote: Please show me in scripture where God demands all second marriages should get a legal divorce? where those in second marriages by your own words one HAS TO "unlegalize" a second marriage? I want Gods word, not your own personal opinion. As far as I know, go and sin no more does not mention a divorce at all, yet you do? is your authority over Gods? There are examples in scripture where people were called out of unlawful marriages as a means of repentance. (Read about Ezra and John the Baptist).

DDCrump71 -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/7/2008 2:22:25 PM)
What??

benelchi -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/7/2008 7:28:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: keepingfaith quote: Please show me in scripture where God demands all second marriages should get a legal divorce? where those in second marriages by your own words one HAS TO "unlegalize" a second marriage? I want Gods word, not your own personal opinion. As far as I know, go and sin no more does not mention a divorce at all, yet you do? is your authority over Gods? There are examples in scripture where people were called out of unlawful marriages as a means of repentance. (Read about Ezra and John the Baptist). So, are you saying that because God's command was for the men of Israel to not marry foreign women, that divorce was required because they had gone against God's command?

SealedEternal -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/7/2008 8:43:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi So, are you saying that because God's command was for the men of Israel to not marry foreign women, that divorce was required because they had gone against God's command? They were unlawful marriages because the Old Covenant Law specifically forbade Israelite men from marrying foreigners. SealedEternal

benelchi -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/7/2008 8:50:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SealedEternal quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi So, are you saying that because God's command was for the men of Israel to not marry foreign women, that divorce was required because they had gone against God's command? They were unlawful marriages because the Old Covenant Law specifically forbade Israelite men from marrying foreigners. SealedEternal So then, when in the New Testiment we are specifically told not to marry unbelievers, you would say that those who disobey God and marry unbelievers should divorce them because they entered an unlawful marriage, right?

SealedEternal -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/7/2008 9:20:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi quote: ORIGINAL: SealedEternal quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi So, are you saying that because God's command was for the men of Israel to not marry foreign women, that divorce was required because they had gone against God's command? They were unlawful marriages because the Old Covenant Law specifically forbade Israelite men from marrying foreigners. SealedEternal So then, when in the New Testiment we are specifically told not to marry unbelievers, you would say that those who disobey God and marry unbelievers should divorce them because they entered an unlawful marriage, right? No, In the Old Covenant God held the purity of His people as being paramount, so the Law not to marry outsiders superceded the law of marriage in that specific instance. In the New Covenant however, the sanctity of the marriage covenant is paramount, since the scripture commands us to honor it whether it is to a believer or an unbeliever: 1 Corinthians 7: 10-13 But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife. But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. SealedEternal

benelchi -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/7/2008 9:35:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SealedEternal quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi quote: ORIGINAL: SealedEternal quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi So, are you saying that because God's command was for the men of Israel to not marry foreign women, that divorce was required because they had gone against God's command? They were unlawful marriages because the Old Covenant Law specifically forbade Israelite men from marrying foreigners. SealedEternal So then, when in the New Testiment we are specifically told not to marry unbelievers, you would say that those who disobey God and marry unbelievers should divorce them because they entered an unlawful marriage, right? No, In the Old Covenant God held the purity of His people as being paramount, so the Law not to marry outsiders superceded the law of marriage in that specific instance. In the New Covenant however, the sanctity of the marriage covenant is paramount, since the scripture commands us to honor it whether it is to a believer or an unbeliever: 1 Corinthians 7: 10-13 But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife. But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. SealedEternal But wasn't it Jesus who said that the marriage covenant was established at creation and was intended to be unchanged from that time forward? Certainly God wouldn't have command a divorce in the OT that he would not permit in the NT.

SealedEternal -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/7/2008 10:16:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi But wasn't it Jesus who said that the marriage covenant was established at creation and was intended to be unchanged from that time forward? Yes, but this is a situation where two laws were in conflict with one another, so one necessarily had to supercede the other. quote: Certainly God wouldn't have command a divorce in the OT that he would not permit in the NT. Why not? Clearly in the Old Covenant keeping His people separate from the other nations was His primary concern, while in the New Covenant that issue is moot. Yes scripture commands believers to be separate from unbelievers, but clearly He regards the sanctity of the marriage covenant as being paramount since He commands us not to divorce them. SealedEternal

benelchi -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/7/2008 10:30:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SealedEternal quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi But wasn't it Jesus who said that the marriage covenant was established at creation and was intended to be unchanged from that time forward? Yes, but this is a situation where two laws were in conflict with one another, so one necessarily had to supercede the other. God's law's were in conflict with one another? quote: quote: Certainly God wouldn't have command a divorce in the OT that he would not permit in the NT. Why not? Clearly in the Old Covenant keeping His people separate from the other nations was His primary concern, while in the New Covenant that issue is moot. Yes scripture commands believers to be separate from unbelievers, but clearly He regards the sanctity of the marriage covenant as being paramount since He commands us not to divorce them. SealedEternal You mean as Christians there is no requirement to remain separate, interfaith marriages are blessed by God in the NT?

SealedEternal -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/7/2008 10:41:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi You mean as Christians there is no requirement to remain separate, interfaith marriages are blessed by God in the NT? 1 Corinthians 7: 10-13 But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife. But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. SealedEternal

benelchi -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/7/2008 10:58:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SealedEternal quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi You mean as Christians there is no requirement to remain separate, interfaith marriages are blessed by God in the NT? 1 Corinthians 7: 10-13 But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife. But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. SealedEternal Do you believe this verse gives permission for a Christian enter a interfaith marriage with God's blessing?

SealedEternal -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/7/2008 11:04:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi quote: ORIGINAL: SealedEternal 1 Corinthians 7: 10-13 But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife. But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. SealedEternal Do you believe this verse gives permission for a Christian enter a interfaith marriage with God's blessing? No. SealedEternal

benelchi -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/7/2008 11:11:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SealedEternal quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi quote: ORIGINAL: SealedEternal 1 Corinthians 7: 10-13 But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife. But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. SealedEternal Do you believe this verse gives permission for a Christian enter a interfaith marriage with God's blessing? No. SealedEternal The the call for OT believers to remain separate, is the same as the call for NT believers to remain separate, isn't it?

SealedEternal -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/8/2008 7:03:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi The the call for OT believers to remain separate, is the same as the call for NT believers to remain separate, isn't it? No they are quite different as I explained. The Old Covenant people had a law specifically forbidding them to marry anyone who wasn't a descendent of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. New Covenant people have no laws restricting the race or geneology of who we marry. Scripture does command believers not to knowingly marry an unbeliever, but states that if such marriage does occur for whatever reason, we are to honor that commitment regardless. SealedEternal

benelchi -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/8/2008 9:31:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SealedEternal quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi The the call for OT believers to remain separate, is the same as the call for NT believers to remain separate, isn't it? No they are quite different as I explained. The Old Covenant people had a law specifically forbidding them to marry anyone who wasn't a descendent of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So, you are saying that any OT marriage that wasn't to a genetic decendent of Abraham, Issaac, and Jacob should have been terminated in divorce? Marriages like those of Rahab, and Ruth?

JesKlu -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/9/2008 5:16:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi quote: ORIGINAL: SealedEternal quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi The the call for OT believers to remain separate, is the same as the call for NT believers to remain separate, isn't it? No they are quite different as I explained. The Old Covenant people had a law specifically forbidding them to marry anyone who wasn't a descendent of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So, you are saying that any OT marriage that wasn't to a genetic decendent of Abraham, Issaac, and Jacob should have been terminated in divorce? Marriages like those of Rahab, and Ruth? Hello. I know I haven't really been on this topic, but I will just put my take on it. I do not believe in divorce. The only Biblical grounds for divorce would be adultery or desertion.(Matthew 5:31-32, Matthew 19:9, 1 Corinthians 7:15-16) But, we are specifically commanded in Scripture, that if we divorce our spouse, we either have to remain single for the rest of our lives or be reconciled to our spouse (Romans 7:2-3, 1 Corinthians 7:10-11). This is my take on this topic. About marriages like Rehab and Ruth. When God commanded the Israelites to not marry gentiles, but to only marry Jewish people, the reason why is that so they would not turn to other gods and worship them. Ruth converted from paganism to the One, True, Living God, so technically, by faith, she is now a spiritual descendant of Abraham. Romans 4:9-12 9Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. 10How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. 11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, 12and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised. (ESV) So, Ruth, in the eyes of God, is no longer a gentile. She is now Jewish by faith. So it then became lawful for Boaz to marry Ruth. For us Christians today, we are commanded to not be unequally yoked to unbelievers. Meaing, a Christian is not to willingly marry an unbeliever. But if you are caught up in that situation, the Christian is not to divorce the unbeliever. One very good, fine example of this would be St Augustine's mother, St Monica. She was married to Patricius, a pagan. She was submissive to her husband, preaching the Lord Jesus Christ by her actions. "If they are not won by the Word, that they may be won without the word by the conduct of their wives." St Monica did just that. Her works showed where her faith was, and toward the end of Patricius's earthly life, he converted to Christianity. I believe this example set by St Monica is beautiful. Her example should be one of every Christian wife to an unbelieving husband. Your sister in Chrsit Jesus, Jessica

keepingfaith -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/9/2008 7:39:20 PM)
quote: I believe this example set by St Monica is beautiful. Her example should be one of every Christian wife to an unbelieving husband. Amen. If we had more examples like that around, we would not be a society in moral decay... 1 Cor 7:13-16 "And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy. Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace. For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?" Note they are still referred to as husband and wife here... immediately after the verse that some claim means they are no longer bound in marriage. That is a very profound statement as well... HOW DO YOU KNOW you will not save your spouse? How do we know God doesn't place us in certain circumstances for a reason... for a bigger purpose? We are so quick to say "it can't be God's will that I'm with this 'bad' person." We might be the only glimpse of Christ they see. There is nothing more Christlike than loving in a way that includes "laying down one's life" so that another might have eternal life... The very first Christians in the first couple of centuries would have been told "you will have the strength to stand for Christ while you have a hot sword coming at you.. while you are being burned at the stake." If we can't even stand for Jesus in our marriages, Lord please help us all...

benelchi -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/10/2008 1:34:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JesKlu quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi quote: ORIGINAL: SealedEternal quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi The the call for OT believers to remain separate, is the same as the call for NT believers to remain separate, isn't it? No they are quite different as I explained. The Old Covenant people had a law specifically forbidding them to marry anyone who wasn't a descendent of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So, you are saying that any OT marriage that wasn't to a genetic decendent of Abraham, Issaac, and Jacob should have been terminated in divorce? Marriages like those of Rahab, and Ruth? Hello. I know I haven't really been on this topic, but I will just put my take on it. I do not believe in divorce. The only Biblical grounds for divorce would be adultery or desertion.(Matthew 5:31-32, Matthew 19:9, 1 Corinthians 7:15-16) But, we are specifically commanded in Scripture, that if we divorce our spouse, we either have to remain single for the rest of our lives or be reconciled to our spouse (Romans 7:2-3, 1 Corinthians 7:10-11). This is my take on this topic. My take is similar; however, in some circumstances I believe the above situations do allow for remarriage. For instance, when an adulterous spouse abandons the marriage and remarries, I don't believe reconciliation of the original marriage is ever again a possibility (duet. 24:1-4), and at that point remarriage would be an option for the abandoned innocent spouse. I know that there are those, like John Piper, who disagree, and I can respect that, but I am very troubled by those here on this forum who advocate divorce for anyone remarried and tell those who are remarried that they will go to Hell unless they divorce. quote: About marriages like Rehab and Ruth. When God commanded the Israelites to not marry gentiles, but to only marry Jewish people, the reason why is that so they would not turn to other gods and worship them. Ruth converted from paganism to the One, True, Living God, so technically, by faith, she is now a spiritual descendant of Abraham. Romans 4:9-12 9Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. 10How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. 11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, 12and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised. (ESV) So, Ruth, in the eyes of God, is no longer a gentile. She is now Jewish by faith. So it then became lawful for Boaz to marry Ruth. For us Christians today, we are commanded to not be unequally yoked to unbelievers. Meaing, a Christian is not to willingly marry an unbeliever. But if you are caught up in that situation, the Christian is not to divorce the unbeliever. This is exactly the point I was trying to make. Both in the OT and the NT God's people were commanded to marry only those who were true followers of God. It was never about genetics in the OT, and it is still just as wrong for a believer in Christ today to marry an unbeliever as it was for descendants of Abraham to marry those who served other gods. quote: One very good, fine example of this would be St Augustine's mother, St Monica. She was married to Patricius, a pagan. She was submissive to her husband, preaching the Lord Jesus Christ by her actions. "If they are not won by the Word, that they may be won without the word by the conduct of their wives." St Monica did just that. Her works showed where her faith was, and toward the end of Patricius's earthly life, he converted to Christianity. I believe this example set by St Monica is beautiful. Her example should be one of every Christian wife to an unbelieving husband. Your sister in Chrsit Jesus, Jessica This is exactly how it should work, but I do think it is important to remember, as we are reminded in 1 Co. 7, that we have no power to hold an unbeliever in a marriage they don't want to be a part of. St. Monica's testimony is that she did not leave, but we must remember that there would have been nothing she could have done if Patricius had left her. An unbelieving spouse has the freedom to reject the love of the most upright and blameless spouse, and no one can ever be absolutely assured that there actions will result in the conversion of their spouse; if acting in an upright and blameless manor always brought conversion then everyone would become a Christian because Christ's actions have always been blameless. If people can reject Christ without cause or justification, then certainly they can and do reject imperfect spouses. I think the key here is to remember that the a Christian should never abandon an unbelieving spouse (even when they don't convert), but stopping a unbelieving spouse from leaving is beyond anyone's control.

keepingfaith -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/10/2008 3:52:13 PM)
quote: I think the key here is to remember that the a Christian should never abandon an unbelieving spouse (even when they don't convert), but stopping a unbelieving spouse from leaving is beyond anyone's control. We also can�t control the fact that the marriage bond still exists until death (1Cor7:39, Rom 7:2-3) whether they leave or not. And we CAN control whether we remain faithful to our vows that said until death. God would not ask us to take vows that He knew we �couldn�t� fulfill� He would not ask us to vow until death if that was �unreasonable.� to Him. Surely those vows would have included until adultery or abandonment, instead of until death- if that�s what He meant. He knew in advance we would �face many troubles in marriage,� so He would not give us an out for those same troubles. Isn�t it strange that He says we are to STAY with an unbeliever who will stay with us� but we are supposedly not bound to the same unbeliever if they leave? So, basically geography determines if the marriage covenant still exists? As soon as they step out of the door we are no longer bound to them? How far away do they have to go? How long do they have to be gone for it to be considered �abandonment?� I don�t see this addressed anywhere in scripture. We also cannot always know who really is a Believer and who isn�t. It does not appear that Jesus agrees with this theology because He says that a man who divorces his wife and marries another is committing adultery. If they were �no longer bound� to each other in marriage he would not be committing adultery by marrying another, but Jesus says he is committing adultery against the wife he abandoned who he has to STILL BE BOUND to� This man also committed adultery by marrying another and Jesus still says the innocent one he put away will commit adultery if she remarries� Luke 16:18 Why didn�t her exception for adultery and abandonment work for her in this verse?

JesKlu -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/10/2008 9:08:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi My take is similar; however, in some circumstances I believe the above situations do allow for remarriage. For instance, when an adulterous spouse abandons the marriage and remarries, I don't believe reconciliation of the original marriage is ever again a possibility (duet. 24:1-4), and at that point remarriage would be an option for the abandoned innocent spouse. I know that there are those, like John Piper, who disagree, and I can respect that, but I am very troubled by those here on this forum who advocate divorce for anyone remarried and tell those who are remarried that they will go to Hell unless they divorce. If the above verses allowed for remarriage why would the Apostle Paul state these things. Romans 7:2-3 2For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. 3Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.(ESV) 1 Corinthians 7:10-11 10To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband 11(but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife. (ESV) Apparently marriage is binding until death. Even though you may meet the biblical grounds for divorce, such as adultery, the Bible does not state that you are allowed to remarry. Jesus even said those who marry a divorced person has committed adultery. Matthew 5:31-32 31 "It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.' 32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.(ESV) Even though Christ did say you are allowed to divorce because of sexual immorality, he does not say you can go ahead and remarry, actually, quite the opposite, because then you would be committing sexual immorality. Your sister in Christ Jesus, Jessica

benelchi -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/10/2008 9:32:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JesKlu quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi My take is similar; however, in some circumstances I believe the above situations do allow for remarriage. For instance, when an adulterous spouse abandons the marriage and remarries, I don't believe reconciliation of the original marriage is ever again a possibility (duet. 24:1-4), and at that point remarriage would be an option for the abandoned innocent spouse. I know that there are those, like John Piper, who disagree, and I can respect that, but I am very troubled by those here on this forum who advocate divorce for anyone remarried and tell those who are remarried that they will go to Hell unless they divorce. If the above verses allowed for remarriage why would the Apostle Paul state these things. Romans 7:2-3 2For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. 3Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.(ESV) In this verse, the context had nothing to do with marriage, but used the example of marriage to explain how we as Christians relate to the Law. Paul was not intending to explain every detail of marriage in this verse, but every detail of how Christians are to understand the Law. Looking to this verse as complete statement by Paul on his view of marriage is taking this verse out of context, and stands in contrast to what he did say in 1 Co. 7 where he was speaking specifically about the marriage vow. quote: 1 Corinthians 7:10-11 10To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband 11(but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife. (ESV) Apparently marriage is binding until death. Even though you may meet the biblical grounds for divorce, such as adultery, the Bible does not state that you are allowed to remarry. In this same passage Paul gives the instructions to those who are abandoned by an unbelieving spouse, and there he says they are no longer bound to that marriage. This happens to be the only circumstance in which the early church permitted remarriage, but in this case even they acknowledged that remarriage was allowed. The verse you quoted is exactly how those who separate for unbiblical reasons are to conduct themselves i.e. they are not to divorce, or remarry. quote: Jesus even said those who marry a divorced person has committed adultery. Matthew 5:31-32 31 "It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.' 32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.(ESV) Even though Christ did say you are allowed to divorce because of sexual immorality, he does not say you can go ahead and remarry, actually, quite the opposite, because then you would be committing sexual immorality. Your sister in Christ Jesus, Jessica Not as I read the exception stated by Jesus i.e. those who divorce for reasons other than sexual immorality were prohibited from remarriage, not everyone. My personal view is that most divorces are unbiblical, and most couples should never be allowed to remarry, but I cannot say that is true of all because both Jesus and Paul acknowledge cases where divorce itself is permitted, and Paul specifically states that in such a divorce a spouse is no longer bound by the marriage. The idea that the marriage covenant is completely unbreakable is difficult to reconcile with Scripture, especially Due. 24:1-4 where a spouse who has remarried is specifically prohibited from ever returning to their former spouse. How can such a prohibition exist if the covenant is unbreakable? To be clear, I do understand that some will see the permission to remarry differently, and although I disagree I have no difficulty with those who hold to that view. Some on this thread; however, have added even more and what they teach is truly unbiblical. They teach that every remarried person will go to HELL unless they divorce or their previous spouse dies. They ask those who have remarried to divorce and return to their former spouse (something prohibited in Scripture!) What they are teaching goes far beyond anything taught in Scripture, and it is that that I absolutely cannot support. They are just asking people to heap one sin on top of another, in the name of godliness???

creationtalk -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/10/2008 10:22:37 PM)
quote: Clearly in the Old Covenant keeping His people separate from the other nations was His primary concern, while in the New Covenant that issue is moot. Yes scripture commands believers to be separate from unbelievers, but clearly He regards the sanctity of the marriage covenant as being paramount since He commands us not to divorce them. The primary problem in the intermarriages/marriages to the foreign women in Ezra is not that they are foreign, but that the did not convert to Judaism for their husbands, but the Jewish husbands added their gods to the worship of the one God. I do not believe that God would have objected had the marriages been honoring to Him: evidence of this is in the lineage of Jesus as quoted in Matthew. There are three women named in Jesus' lineage (excluding Mary): Tamar--Jewess, wife of Judah's sons who tricked Judah into fathering children with her (Gen 38:27-30), Rahab--prostitute and citizen of Jericho, helped the Israelite spies and joined the Israelites after the fall of Jericho, and Ruth--Moabitess who followed Naomi back to Israel after the death of their husbands, later married Boaz. Please note, the Moabites are one of the peoples listed in Ezra, yet Ruth has an entire book of the Bible devoted to her in addition to the honor of being in Jesus's line. Her foreignness is outweighed by her devotion to God and to God's people.

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