RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (Full Version)

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SisterSheba -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (6/30/2008 11:28:55 PM)

SE

You said that you would advise them to fill out the proper secular paperwork? yet God never commands, demands anyone to do this? How can you advise anyone to do something God never said to do? Are you not a false teacher telling people to do things God never said? God never mentions a divorce if one has remarried, yet you do? I would advise all to listen to God through His word only and never take the advice of any man. It is IMPOSSIBLE for God to LIE. LET GOD BE TRUE, BUT EVERY MAN A LIAR!



gmc4Jesus -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (6/30/2008 11:40:53 PM)

I have read some of the legalistic comments in this thread and while I agree that divorce is sin, it is far too commonplace in our world today and that we definitely need to do more to teach that marriage is a lifetime covenant, not an "as long as I feel good" contract, we must also remember that God is a God of grace, divorce (and remarriage) is not the unforgiveable sin.

To those who have been divorced, I would admonish you to allow God's forgiveness, but make a commitment never to divorce again should you remarry.

To those who are married, I would strongly advise you that divorce is an absolutely stupid way to solve marriage problems. If the person you married was good enough to marry, they are good enough to stay married to (unless they have become sexually unfaithful, physically abusive or gotten soaked up into drugs or alcohol). While I strongly agree that Scripture only recognizes sexual immorality, I have observed the devestation that these other things can bring to the marriage and family. If the person in error won't repent and seek help, tough love sometimes demands that they be cut loose and left to the world.

May God bless all who are married and help you keek your covenant for life.
May God's love and grace help those who are divorced to find forgiveness, healing and the strength to never divorce again.



benelchi -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (6/30/2008 11:46:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus

I have read some of the legalistic comments in this thread and while I agree that divorce is sin, it is far too commonplace in our world today and that we definitely need to do more to teach that marriage is a lifetime covenant, not an "as long as I feel good" contract, we must also remember that God is a God of grace, divorce (and remarriage) is not the unforgiveable sin.

To those who have been divorced, I would admonish you to allow God's forgiveness, but make a commitment never to divorce again should you remarry.

To those who are married, I would strongly advise you that divorce is an absolutely stupid way to solve marriage problems. If the person you married was good enough to marry, they are good enough to stay married to (unless they have become sexually unfaithful, physically abusive or gotten soaked up into drugs or alcohol). While I strongly agree that Scripture only recognizes sexual immorality, I have observed the devastation that these other things can bring to the marriage and family. If the person in error won't repent and seek help, tough love sometimes demands that they be cut loose and left to the world.

May God bless all who are married and help you keep your covenant for life.
May God's love and grace help those who are divorced to find forgiveness, healing and the strength to never divorce again.


I think all but a very few posters on this thread would absolutely support all that you have said!

Thanks for posting.



Roberta_ -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (6/30/2008 11:57:32 PM)

I'm confused about the issue with the woman at the well. However, I just did a quick glance at the Gospels and can't find her story in there. Where is her story again?



Roberta_ -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 12:02:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus

I have read some of the legalistic comments in this thread and while I agree that divorce is sin, it is far too commonplace in our world today and that we definitely need to do more to teach that marriage is a lifetime covenant, not an "as long as I feel good" contract, we must also remember that God is a God of grace, divorce (and remarriage) is not the unforgiveable sin.


But Paul said that adulterers would not inherit the Kingdom of God. Jesus said that anyone who marries a divorced person commits adultery.

quote:

To those who have been divorced, I would admonish you to allow God's forgiveness, but make a commitment never to divorce again should you remarry.

To those who are married, I would strongly advise you that divorce is an absolutely stupid way to solve marriage problems. If the person you married was good enough to marry, they are good enough to stay married to (unless they have become sexually unfaithful, physically abusive or gotten soaked up into drugs or alcohol). While I strongly agree that Scripture only recognizes sexual immorality, I have observed the devestation that these other things can bring to the marriage and family. If the person in error won't repent and seek help, tough love sometimes demands that they be cut loose and left to the world.


How do we know that God would condone a divorce based on the grounds of abuse or alcoholism?

quote:

May God bless all who are married and help you keek your covenant for life.


Which is the covenant spouse?



pickupyourmat -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 12:05:48 AM)

keepingfaith,

quote:

Our side is not interpreting anything. We accept scripture as it is written. It is not open to private interpretation.

If you don't believe that "everyone who divorces and marries another commits adultery"... that is your own interpretation and not what Jesus really said.

If you don't believe that "anyone who marries a divorced person commits adultery"... that is your own interpretation and not what Jesus really said.

If you don't believe that "a woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives," ... that is your own interpretation and not what Paul really said.

If you don't believe that "if while her husband lives, she is married to another man she is called an adulteress"... that is your own interpretation and not what Paul really said.

If you don't believe that "a man must not divorce his wife"... that is your own interpretation and not what Paul really said as a direct command from the Lord.

If you don't believe one "must remain unmarried or be reconciled"... that is your own interpretation and not what Paul really said as a direct command from the Lord.

I could go on........does it appear that they want to live according to His Word?


I would advise you to go on with the Scriptures! You are deliberately leaving out the entire verse in order to make the Bible appear to agree with your doctrine. That is purposeful deception. The bottom line is that you really can't deal with the entire Bible. If you are going to post the Scriptures then post everything that is said.

Mathew 5:32
32 but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for {the} reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced F84 woman commits adultery.

You should ask yourself why you would dare quote Scripture and deliberately leave out the above. If one were to read your posting of these passages, it would look like your doctrine is true but you know as well as anyone else that the above verse does not support your doctrine, so you left it out.



keepingfaith -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 12:29:43 AM)

quote:

Mathew 5:32
32 but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for {the} reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced F84 woman commits adultery.

You should ask yourself why you would dare quote Scripture and deliberately leave out the above. If one were to read your posting of these passages, it would look like your doctrine is true but you know as well as anyone else that the above verse does not support your doctrine, so you left it out.


I didn't deliberately leave anything out. This verse does not change the meaning of all of the verses I posted. You either REJECT all of them as truth in favor of one that seems to give an exception, or you accept all verses as true. It cannot be both. That verse was just addressed and does not refer to adultery.

Unless you can explain why Jesus mentioned the exception twice in Matthew to the Jews, but forgot to mention it even once to the Gentiles in Mark and Luke, and forgot to tell Paul to address it in Corinthians- I have to accept that He means everyone when He says everyone. And Jesus also forgot to mention Paul's exception. I accept that they were in total agreement and were not both liars.

The very verse you posted proves adultery is not the exception because it says the "innocent" woman who is put away is committing adultery when she remarries.

You did even worse by ignoring the last part of your same verse that says "WHOEVER marries a divorced person commits adultery". The text says "ANYONE who marries a divorced person commits adultery"... that means NO divorced person is eligible to marry another and claiming they are is adding to the text something that is not there.

I have seen no one explain how one person can be freed from the marriage and not the other. We are bound to each other and made ONE FLESH (which only God can do) and the government can't make us two again. He says we are never again two...

If the "innocent party" is free, then who is the "guilty party" committing adultery against when they remarry? The one they are STILL BOUND to?

If you are actually saying that adultery and abandonment frees both parties to remarry that is frightening theology. Jesus really thought that one through. So the adulterer and the man who abandons his family and a faithful wife who is distraught begging and pleading him to stay... and he thumbs his nose at her and God, is blessed with the exception and privilege of marrying another?

But two people who amicably decide to call it quits are not given that same "exception" because they did not have a "Biblical divorce?" So two people who are so amicable that they can mutually divorce are really going to say.........it looks like my only option is to remain unmarried so I would rather be alone the rest of my life than be with you since we get along so unamicably???

Please help me here. I don't get it.



keepingfaith -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 12:39:54 AM)

quote:

Are you not a false teacher telling people to do things God never said? God never mentions a divorce if one has remarried, yet you do?


God never mentions such a thing as a remarriage. That word is not found in scripture, and there is not one example of a remarriage recognized by God. If this was such an acceptable and expected practice why are there none mentioned- shouldn't we see a plethora of them in the Bible like we see in the church today?

There are examples though of second marriages that he did not recognize, and in Malachi we see that the first wife is STILL the wife by covenant AFTER divorce. The false teachers are the ones who call what God calls adultery- a marriage.



SisterSheba -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 12:53:34 AM)

DenimDiva

You can find the woman of Samaria in John 4 you will also notice in scripture Jesus never told the Samaria woman to LEAVE or DIVORCE the man who Jesus stated was not her husband.

John 4:16-18

16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither.17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband:18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.



benelchi -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 1:27:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SisterSheba

DenimDiva

You can find the woman of Samaria in John 4 you will also notice in scripture Jesus never told the Samaria woman to LEAVE or DIVORCE the man who Jesus stated was not her husband.

John 4:16-18

16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither.17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband:18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.



It is hard to imaging that Jesus could be in support of this "no remarriage ever" viewpoint while at the same time acknowledging that this woman had five husbands, when those advocating this "no remarriage ever" viewpoint work so hard to redefine any term that would give any acknowledgment to the legitimacy of the relationship of which they disapprove. As in the following post where we are told that there is no such thing as divorce in second marriages, it is just "unlegalizing adultery".


"Of course, to end this union they would have to "unlegalize" their adultery as far as the government is concerned. I'm only concerned with how God views it. God does not see it as a "divorce" He sees it as forsaking an adulterous relationship that was never a marriage in His eyes..."

Thanks SisterSheba for posting this, it really provides a good contrast between biblical doctrine and their doctrine.



SisterSheba -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 1:34:24 AM)

Keepingfaith,

and the false teachers are also those who teach the people of God to do things that Jesus never said to do. False teachers come in many different flavors.We have those who take away from God's Word, those that add to God's Word, those who teach commandments of men as commandments of God, those that reinterpret God's Word to make it fit the doctrine that they teach. Matthew 15:9



keepingfaith -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 1:49:37 AM)

quote:

If the person you married was good enough to marry, they are good enough to stay married to (unless they have become sexually unfaithful, physically abusive or gotten soaked up into drugs or alcohol). While I strongly agree that Scripture only recognizes sexual immorality, I have observed the devestation that these other things can bring to the marriage and family. If the person in error won't repent and seek help, tough love sometimes demands that they be cut loose and left to the world.


How would you explain that to a man who suffered a horrific death for us, WHILE we were yet sinners? Unless any of us is without sin, we are not qualified to place ourselves in the judgment seat, and Jesus warned us not to cast stones. None of us are "good" enough. That person needs our prayers, not our condemnation.

While separation might be necessary in some cases... cutting one off permanently and refusing to keep a soft open heart for reconciliation would not be the heart of Jesus. Thank goodness He doesn't treat us that way. Believers should not have hardened hearts.



keepingfaith -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 1:54:24 AM)

quote:

and the false teachers are also those who teach the people of God to do things that Jesus never said to do. False teachers come in many different flavors.We have those who take away from God's Word, those that add to God's Word, those who teach commandments of men as commandments of God, those that reinterpret God's Word to make it fit the doctrine that they teach. Matthew 15:9


Here are the commandments of God... loud and clear. Anything added to this is a false teaching and reinterpreting to make it fit a doctrine.

1 Cor 7:10-11
"To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife."



Roberta_ -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 2:07:33 AM)

IMO false teachers = liars. Are we really doing much to further conversation by referring to each other as false teachers?



SisterSheba -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 2:08:02 AM)

benelchi,

You are very welcome. Yes Jesus DID acknowledge that the woman of Samaria had FIVE HUSBANDS yet, the "no remarriage ever camp" will not acknowledge any husband or wife but the covenant husband and wife? Something is way off in this doctrine they preach. SE also gives instructions to the people of God to legally divorce? When Jesus or Paul never gave such instructions? This is treading on dangerous ground if you ask me! Anyone who tells the people of God to do things that Jesus, Paul etc..has not advised anyone to do,is nothing but a false teacher! Thank you for all of your educating posts.

{I personally would advise them to fill out the proper secular paperwork to bring their legal status into compliance with God's Law.} SealedEternal



SisterSheba -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 4:18:47 AM)

benelchi,

Not only did Jesus recognize the Samaritan womans first HUSBAND, but he also recognized her second HUSBAND, her third HUSBAND, her fourth HUSBAND and her fifth HUSBAND. I would really like to see SE and keepingfaith explain this one away. They can't! If Jesus Christ acknowledges ALL of the Samaritan womans HUSBANDS the same Jesus Christ today recognizes ALL HUSBANDS. John 4:16-18



SealedEternal -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 7:40:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SisterSheba

Keepingfaith,

and the false teachers are also those who teach the people of God to do things that Jesus never said to do. False teachers come in many different flavors.We have those who take away from God's Word, those that add to God's Word, those who teach commandments of men as commandments of God, those that reinterpret God's Word to make it fit the doctrine that they teach. Matthew 15:9


And do you accept this verse as a true and accurate statement of God:

Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.”

SealedEternal



alanajackson -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 12:55:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SisterSheba

benelchi,

Not only did Jesus recognize the Samaritan womans first HUSBAND, but he also recognized her second HUSBAND, her third HUSBAND, her fourth HUSBAND and her fifth HUSBAND. I would really like to see SE and keepingfaith explain this one away. They can't! If Jesus Christ acknowledges ALL of the Samaritan womans HUSBANDS the same Jesus Christ today recognizes ALL HUSBANDS. John 4:16-18


And does anyone believe that Samaritan woman went back to hubby #1 and was welcomed with open arms? I dont think so, not in that society which viewed women , especially divorced ones, lower than dogs. Jesus treated her with His gentle compassion and forgiveness, which no doubt shocked everyone, that He even spoke to her.



SisterSheba -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 1:56:33 PM)

Yes I do SE, just as I also accept these truthful scriptures.

But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of FORNICATION, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. Mat 5:32

Do you accept this text as truth?

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed ADULTERY with her already in his heart. Mat 5:28

Why is just looking at a woman lustfully adultery? It is because this lustful person has already committed unlawful intercourse in his mind/heart with another person who was not his/her spouse. How many do this daily? How many are addicted to porn? My point is, everyone has committed adultery in some way and if you hold those who have remarried in a continuous state of adultery, then you also need to hold those who are looking at a woman lustfully in a continuous state of adultery. Adultery is adultery no matter how you look at it.

I believe one can be forgiven for committing adultery, just like any other sin that is committed against God. It is not the unforgivable sin. I would like to see scripture that supports this "continuous" state of adultery that you claim? You believe all who have remarried with a living spouse are in a continuous state of adultery. Please back that claim up with the word of God.

How do you explain the Samaritan woman's FIVE HUSBANDS? was she in a continuous state of adultery? She had FIVE HUSBANDS who Jesus recognized as her HUSBANDS or are you going to tell me that all five of her HUSBANDS died? I hope not, because that is NOT in scripture.

Strong's Number: 3428
Adulterer (-ess), Adulterous, Adultery:
"an adulteress," is used

(a) in the natural sense, 2Pe 2:14; Rom 7:3;

(b) in the spiritual sense, Jam 4:4; here the RV rightly omits the word "adulterers." It was added by a copyist. As in Israel the breach of their relationship with God through their idolatry, was described as "adultery" or "harlotry" (e.g., Eze 16:15, etc.; 23:43), so believers who cultivate friendship with the world, thus breaking their spiritual union with Christ, are spiritual "adulteresses," having been spiritually united to Him as wife to husband, Rom 7:4. It is used adjectivally to describe the Jewish people in transferring their affections from God, Mat 12:39; 16:4; Mar 8:38. In 2Pe 2:14, the lit. translation is "full of an adulteress.

Strong's Number: 3431
Adulterer (-ess), Adulterous, Adultery:
is used in Mat 5:27,28,32 (in ver. 32 some texts have No. 1); Mat 19:18; Mar 10:19; Luk 16:18; 18:20; Jhn 8:4; Rom 2:22; 13:9; Jam 2:11; in Rev 2:22, metaphorically, of those who are by a Jezebel's solicitations drawn away to idolatry.



SisterSheba -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 2:34:33 PM)

alanajackson,

I totally agree with you. Jesus showed the Samaritan woman who had FIVE HUSBANDS that He clearly acknowledged as her HUSBANDS, nothing but His unconditional love for her. Unlike the love we receive today, from so many who judge and condemn in the body of Christ. We all need to have that same love and compassion that Jesus has towards one another. We will never know who Jesus really is until we find this love and walk in it.

Matthew 22:36-40
36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment.39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.



keepingfaith -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 3:29:40 PM)

quote:

Unlike the love we receive today, from so many who judge and condemn in the body of Christ. We all need to have that same love and compassion that Jesus has towards one another. We will never know who Jesus really is until we find this love and walk in it.


Amen. When we have that same love and compassion and are walking in it- following the greatest commandment that you just mentioned, we will have no problem remaining faithful for better for worse til death do us part regardless of the actions/sins of our spouse.

We will be judged by the same measure we judge others. Divorce is judging another as not worthy...



keepingfaith -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 3:31:54 PM)

quote:

But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of FORNICATION, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. Mat 5:32


The innocent woman in this verse is committing adultery when she remarries. So I'm not sure I understand...



SisterSheba -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 4:16:35 PM)

We will be judged by the same measure we judge others. keepingfaith



Yes, let us remember this! When we show no mercy to the adulterers, we will be judged in the same manner by God, He will show NO mercy in His judgment upon us! Sow it, you will reap it! Also let us never forget, we will be judged if we are preaching something false and telling the people of God to do things that Jesus or Paul never said to do. All false teachers will be cast into the lake of fire.



keepingfaith -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 7:11:39 PM)

quote:

Yes, let us remember this! When we show no mercy to the adulterers, we will be judged in the same manner by God, He will show NO mercy in His judgment upon us!


I show the same mercy to the adulterer that God does when they repent. Scripture says unrepentant adulterers will not inherit Heaven. There is a difference between someone who has committed adultery and someone who is living in adultery with a spouse who God says is joined to another. Loving one's neighbor as oneself does not include living with our neighbor's spouse.



keepingfaith -> RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 7:37:02 PM)

quote:

I would like to see scripture that supports this "continuous" state of adultery that you claim?


1 Cor 7:39
"A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord."

Romans 7:2-3
"For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man."

It says that we are bound until our spouse dies, not until divorce. That is why we have the command to remain unmarried. There would be no reason for that command if divorce dissolved the marriage and we were not entering into adultery.

Jesus says "anyone who marries a divorced person commits adultery" That can only be the case if the person we are marrying is still bound to their first spouse AFTER divorce. I could be a never married before person who marries a divorced person and it says I am committing adultery- the only person I can possibly be committing adultery against is their first spouse who they are still bound to. Which means no divorced person is eligible to marry another because as Paul said they are bound to their first spouse until death. He is also in complete agreement with Jesus who says "everyone who divorces and marries another commits adultery"

Note that Paul says if while her HUSBAND lives... she be married to another man, she will be called an adulteress. He still considers the first husband her husband. God does not label us as adulteresses just for committing a one time sin.

In Romans Paul says we are freed from the law of marriage at death. We have proof in Malachi that divorce does not dissolve the covenant. We cannot enter into another valid covenant when we are already in one with someone else.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, He says when He joins us we are "no longer two, but one" "No longer" (Ouketi) means NEVER AGAIN. Other verses Jesus uses (Ouketi) for "no longer" are in Mark 14:25, John 6:66, Acts 8:39. Read those and see if it happened once He said "no longer."



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