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RE: Taxes: Who Pays What - 10/11/2008 5:16:18 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2200
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
I have never been hired by a poor individual.
I believe you. As a Pastor you worked for the Lord who is the richest and as a cop you worked for the government which is the second richest of all. ; )
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-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: Taxes: Who Pays What - 10/11/2008 7:56:15 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6274
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
I have never been hired by a poor individual.
I believe you. As a Pastor you worked for the Lord who is the richest and as a cop you worked for the government which is the second richest of all. ; )
Ha ha.. FYI - I have never, ever, received a single red cent for any ministry work, preaching, etc. I say that proudly because the Lord has always provided me with "secular" work to provide for my family. That way His Word does not get a price put on it. All glory and praise to Jesus! For His grace is always more than I could EVER deserve.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Taxes: Who Pays What - 10/11/2008 9:56:43 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2200
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: online
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quote:
Ha ha.. FYI - I have never, ever, received a single red cent for any ministry work, preaching, etc. I say that proudly because the Lord has always provided me with "secular" work to provide for my family.
Many will wish they have what you've saved up for the next life than what they have in this one some day. ; )
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: Taxes: Who Pays What - 10/12/2008 10:11:50 PM
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rparlo
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The type of numbers quoted can be very misleading in terms of looking at who pays the most because it is not measuring the average percentage paid by each individual in each income category. If 6 people lived in the U.S. and one made $1 million per year and the others made $50,000 per year and the tax rate was a flat 25% of annual income for everyone, then the person who made $1 million would pay $250,000 in taxes and each of the others would pay $12,500.
The one making $1 million could then say it's unfair that he pays 80% of the overall tax burden although he only pays the same percentage of his income in taxes as the other five income earners. Maybe no one was listening when Warren Buffet said that he paid about 11% in taxes on his multimillions of dollars of earned income while his secretary paid out over 30% of her income in taxes. People forget that there is a payroll tax that hits middle and lower income Americans at a substantially higher level than the rich.
The rich also use more of the resources that pertain to infrastructure and protection as their business interests rely on it, especially worldwide protection for their interests in foreign countries. Simply put, they have much more to lose in terms of material possessions and wealth than those who are not rich. Thus, while they should argue for the government to curb waste and fraud leading to higher taxes, they many times should refrain from acting as if government is unnecessary.
When they want the government, they call on it an expect that it will come through to serve their interests and of course they'll act like it definitely serves the interest of the middle and lower classes as well (think Bail Outs). If the rich really believed that we don't need government and thus all the taxation they complain about, the many very rich men and women in the executive ranks of America's business industries could have put their resources together and bailed themselves out and taken an equity interest in the business industries reforming themselves and operating in a sound and reasonable fashion. After all they are entrepreneurs who believe in a capitalistic free market free of government regulation.
Instead, they each keep putting their hands out for more bail outs from the government even though the vast majority of them still have access to the many trillions they received in compensation over the past 10-20 years.
Now, I'm not arguing for more taxation nor am I against the rich and being productive. I believe that much can be accomplished by setting strict budgeting priorities based on current revenue levels and cutting spending. It's just that such taxation figures as have been formerly presented can be very misleading and misquoted and don't tell the whole story.
If we think of the situation in this sense, maybe we can understand why the rich should pay more and not complain too loudly. God required a tithe of the nation Israel; no matter how much one received in income and what the income actually was (produce, animals, money, etc.). In addition, those who were rich in this life were to give in proportion to their incomes and communicate material goods greatly within their communities. Should the top 1% or 5% or 10% of income earners in the nation of Israel have rebelled against God's command because they were funding 60, 70, or 80% of the ministry work that took place? Of course not!
They were supposed to get the message that the Lord will repay through various means such as the gift that He had already given them as entrepreneurs to continue to produce at an astounding level through business investments and the supernatural increase that would come as a result of helping the poor, oppressed, widows, and orphans. All of this said, our nation should not try to break the backs of the rich, but requiring that each individual rich person pay as much or a little more than non-rich citizens is not ungodly as some would have you believe.
After all, no one could have become rich through business enterprise without hundreds and even thousands more helping their business(es) produce a good product and grow. Therefore, they should have a concern for others and not just for themselves. As with any population, some understand this and act on it and some do not.
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RE: Taxes: Who Pays What - 10/13/2008 11:22:38 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2537
Joined: 10/1/2007
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Most people forget that most of the rich make their money from capital gains which is taxed at a much lower rate as well! They don't have to pay soc sec or medicare taxes on those either!
"To whoever much is given, of him will much be required; and to whom much was entrusted, of him more will be asked." Luke 12:48
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Taxes: Who Pays What - 10/13/2008 11:28:01 AM
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P31W
Posts: 3003
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According to the IRS stats for 2006 just released.
The top one percent of tax payers payed in 40% of the taxes and earned only 22% of the income.
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RE: Taxes: Who Pays What - 10/13/2008 11:38:44 AM
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P31W
Posts: 3003
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
If we think of the situation in this sense, maybe we can understand why the rich should pay more and not complain too loudly. God required a tithe of the nation Israel; no matter how much one received in income and what the income actually was (produce, animals, money, etc.). In addition, those who were rich in this life were to give in proportion to their incomes and communicate material goods greatly within their communities. Should the top 1% or 5% or 10% of income earners in the nation of Israel have rebelled against God's command because they were funding 60, 70, or 80% of the ministry work that took place? Of course not!
They were supposed to get the message that the Lord will repay through various means such as the gift that He had already given them as entrepreneurs to continue to produce at an astounding level through business investments and the supernatural increase that would come as a result of helping the poor, oppressed, widows, and orphans. All of this said, our nation should not try to break the backs of the rich, but requiring that each individual rich person pay as much or a little more than non-rich citizens is not ungodly as some would have you believe.
The tithe was for everyone who earned had an increase. It was 10% of that increase. (the wealthy were not "required" to give more than 10%)
There was also the dedication of the first born. Again an equal tax for all. Any animal that came from the womb first or human being was to be given back to the lord. The humans were to be redeamed for a set price...equal for all.
There was also the temple tax that was to be paid by all men over the age of 20 or 21? That was a flat tax. It was not to be lowered for the poor or increased for the rich. Everyone no matter how rich or poor you were had to pay the exact same dollar amount. (in those days it was equal to two working days wages for a hired hand)
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RE: Taxes: Who Pays What - 10/13/2008 11:39:51 AM
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Random
Posts: 1033
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Zipperhead
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rparlo
People forget that there is a payroll tax that hits middle and lower income Americans at a substantially higher level than the rich.
People also forget that Social Security benefits are capped too. Why should the "rich" have to pay more in payroll taxes, when the benefits are capped? The cap on taxes matches the cap on benefits, you wouldn't have one without the other.
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"That which has always been accepted by everyone, everywhere, is almost certain to be false." -- Valery
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RE: Taxes: Who Pays What - 10/13/2008 11:45:44 AM
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P31W
Posts: 3003
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The wealthy pay tax on their Soc Sec checks while the poor do not.
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RE: Taxes: Who Pays What - 10/13/2008 11:53:43 AM
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P31W
Posts: 3003
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
Maybe no one was listening when Warren Buffet said that he paid about 11% in taxes on his multimillions of dollars of earned income while his secretary paid out over 30% of her income in taxes.
I believe he said 17.7% and his secretary was at 32%? Not sure I am correct.
The reason is because his secretary is not investing for the long haul helping to create jobs for others and he is. Capital gains tax is lower because we need to encourage people in this country to be investors. To help create jobs for more than just themselves.
At one time in my live I only worked for "myself". By taking advantage of the captial gains tax incentive I am able to help create jobs for others.
Helping grow our economy rather than simply being a consumer is a good thing. It's something that needs to be rewarded and encouraged not punished or penalized.
I bet if his secretary sacrifices a little here and there she too could become an investor and help build up this country.
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