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RE: The Jesus you cannot have - 10/7/2008 9:30:55 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
No part of the Godhead is denied to us. It is us who deny parts of ourselves to the Godhead. Had we perfect faith and perfect love we could enjoy His perfect life...but we do not.
And this is my point exactly. We have ALL of Him. But does He have ALL of us? So as we grow closer to Him, mature, die to our self life and surrender to His life, we will enjoy more of His perfect life being lived out of us.
I fear we too often neglect this great salvation.
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RE: The Jesus you cannot have - 10/7/2008 9:32:23 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
Dancre
I've never given nor will I give it much thought. I love Jesus, He loves me, I am complete in Him and that's all that matters.
And I agree. Amen.
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RE: The Jesus you cannot have - 10/9/2008 1:58:41 AM
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kisstheson
Posts: 965
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Liveloved...
my heart immediately rose up in protest when I read your topic heading: "The Jesus I cannot have." "What?!" I thought, "You may as well take off my right arm then!" I guess I'm a little dramatic but what's the sense of being a christian if you can't have all of Jesus? He said, (mostly from the gospel of John,)
I am with you always even until the end of the world."
"whoever loves Me I will come to him and disclose Myself to him. My Father and I will make our home with Him."
"I will not leave you as orphans. I will come to you."
I know all of Jesus is with me. He is omnipresent. He is just as much with me in my every day life as He is in Heaven. That's His promise. That's His word.
I love Him too much to think of Him being any other way and nobody here can talk me out of what I believe :) I know you think that way also BTW.
< Message edited by kisstheson -- 10/9/2008 2:05:14 AM >
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This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: The Jesus you cannot have - 10/9/2008 7:32:48 AM
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growingseed
Posts: 159
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Jesus says that he is in us and we are in him and he is in the father and the father in him, and we are in his hands and he is in the fathers hands, and no man can pluck us out of their hands.
Jesus teaches grow in a developmental stages.
1. As a seed which developes into a process of stages to reach it's full potential.
2. As a child which developes until it is matured.(sometimes)
3. As a disciple which developes in learning from its teacher to be like the teacher.
4. As a building which developes from foundation up to a finished unit.
We have all that is reqiured for our development in the spirit, but as always there is one requirement, and Jesus said that i will give all that you need, but you will not come to me for it. There is a grace that we have access to but refuse to exercise, that is patience. We are spiritually being developed and as the Lord has taught is a process or developmental in nature that our growth depends upon. As much as i would like to drive, my feet won't reach the pedals.
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RE: The Jesus you cannot have - 10/9/2008 10:09:18 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1919
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quote:
There is a grace that we have access to but refuse to exercise, that is patience.
I like this statement but I'm not sure it is complete. Is it patience that we refuse? or is it our 'self' we will not deny? Once we have sufficiently died to self, then it is patience that is needed. Or patience that we are then able to recognize because our selfishness has been dealt with to such a degree that we can begin seeing rightly. Does that make sense to you?
Anyway, I'm just pondering with you. Let me know your further thoughts.
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RE: The Jesus you cannot have - 10/10/2008 12:31:38 AM
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kisstheson
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quote:
And THAT is the Jesus that people do not have. And it makes me sad because He longs to make His abode with us and disclose Himself to us.
Anyway, thanks for joining the discussion and especially for knowing Jesus and loving Him as you do. Bless ya! LL
That makes me sad too, especially if I consider that sometimes I am the one who is not spending the time with him where He is able to disclose Himself to me.
Oh I need to love Him MORE! I fall so far short.
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: The Jesus you cannot have - 10/10/2008 2:16:23 AM
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growingseed
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liveloved: Patience the grace which is waiting for a spiritual process or growth in a world where we expect it today. For example, the foundation which is layed in our hearts and that of a new nature. But we must realize that the Lord has to take and remove the old foundation that we have our worldly huts on. The removal of that foundation is the basic nature of who we are in the flesh, once that has been removed, then he is able to start laying our new foundation in which he will help us to build on. This is only possible by reading his word, and apply it to our lives. For us who seek the mystery of the kingdom of heaven, must acknowledge that it is given to us, to receive both his light and his sight, and that from a relationship with Jesus, and because he rose from the dead has opened to us the scriptures and the undestanding of them. And again its in coming to him the source of the materials of our new selves. Patience is learning to be built.
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RE: The Jesus you cannot have - 10/11/2008 2:48:09 AM
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kisstheson
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yes Jesus did learn obedience through the things he suffered.
here's a little something I wrote about that. I thought I would post it here since you mentioned this beautiful truth about Jesus...
Yes Jesus suffered more than anyone in the history of humanity... past, present and future:
Isaiah 52:
13 See, my servant will act wisely
he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted.
14 Just as there were many who were appalled at him
his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man
and his form marred beyond human likeness—"
Are there people that have been more marred than Jesus, people that have been blown to bits by bombs etc.? Cartianly they were more disfigured than Jesus. People that have suffered terrible prolonged illness, yet here the prophet Isaiah says that Christ was disfigured BEYOND any man.
Continuing on into Isaiah 53:
3 He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows."
So in light of the fact the Jesus bore in His own body all our infirmaties...this means sickness of body, emotions, spiritual torments, yes He has carried all suffering for all time, in light of this fact Isaiah states the Messaih was disfigured BEYOND any man BECAUSE no person ever will bear what Jesus bore. He bore the sin of the holocaust. He bore the sins of Hiroshima. He bore the sins of child abuse and rape, He carried unmentionable sins that can't be mentioned on a christian board, mental and mind abuse...
Futhermore Christ didn't just suffer what he endured holy thursday and good friday. Hebrews 4:8 says he learned obedience through the things he suffered. Every day of His life christ made the choice to set his face toward the final sacrifice. Jesus suffered daily interior crucifixions long before his physical crucifixion. Right from his birth there was no room for him in the inn. The life of Jesus was no cake walk.
Lets not deminish even in the slighest bit what Jesus suffered for love of His bride the Church. No one has endured or has suffered as much as our Bridegroom.
"He learned to obey through suffering." hebrews 4:8
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: The Jesus you cannot have - 10/11/2008 11:45:23 AM
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makarizo
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quote:
are we unable/denied the opportunity to love as Jesus loved and commanded us to love?
Jesus commanded us to love, this implies that it is a decision, a choice. What is the choice? If I choose to love you, is it because I am supposed to, a sense of obligation or duty? or is it a choice of my willingness to surrender my life to Christ?
will power does not work in this commandment.... that only works for an appearance of love.
the loveometer is directly related to the amount of our lives that we've surrendered to Jesus. That is the only valid decision.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.
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RE: The Jesus you cannot have - 10/11/2008 8:55:51 PM
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sisrev
Posts: 883
Joined: 8/7/2006
From: The South, ya'll
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
quote:
quote: sisrev
We are to be imitators of Christ, to be conformed to His image, but we are told plainly that "here we see darkly, but then face to face--here we know in part, but then we shall know as we are known".
He knows us fully, but I don't think we can know Him fully, in all of His omniscience and omnipresence and Divinity, because we are not omniscient or omnipresent or Divine.
Man looks on the outward, because that's all we can see. We don't have x-ray vision. The Spirit give us discernment, and He teaches us, but there are some things that I think cannot be fully comprehended because we have not obtained true perfection, and will not in this life.
Oh, great responses! I'm not picking on sisrev (or that is certainly not my intention) but will use her thoughts to ask more questions. So thanks sisrev for being my guinea pig of sorts.
So let's talk about knowing in part from I Cor 13. Certainly our finite minds aren't capable of fully knowing all as the Godhead does. I am not talking omniscience. Although it is omniscience to a point---because don't you think we have the ability, the capacity to know all if we are indwelt by God? Isn't the 'knowing in part' or the limitation, if you will, part of the human condition that God is not willing to violate? He is able to give us any and all the information, knowledge we need for any and every situation. Do you agree?
And man looking on the outward because that is all he sees. Isn't this talking about natural man? Man apart from God? Does not the man who is indwelt by Christ have the ability to look on man as Christ does, see into and know men as Christ knows? Is He not able to give us that same insight into others?
And BTW, Tricia, it is Colossians 2:9-10 that says "For in Him all the fulness of Deity dwells in bodily form. and in Him you have been made complete" but this follows "as you have received Christ" meaning if we have Him, we have ALL. And Ephesians 3 speaks of our being "filled up to all the fulness of God". To me fulness means our potential to be filled to the max with God. 
Edited to add sisrev quote.
Sorry it has taken so long to get back to this, I've been away from the forums for a few days.
I still think that there is a part of Christ--His Divinity and all of those attributes, that we are not able to "have". He has me fully, I am enveloped in Him, and that fullness. I have Him, and I am complete, but that doesn't have to mean that He is to endue me with that Divinity; again, because I am not Divine.
As to knowledge--would not complete knowledge then do away for the need for faith on my part? "...faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"
I think there are some things that we are meant to take on faith.
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My new blog, A Virtuous Woman
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RE: The Jesus you cannot have - 10/12/2008 7:56:55 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1919
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quote:
quote: sisrev
Sorry it has taken so long to get back to this, I've been away from the forums for a few days.
I still think that there is a part of Christ--His Divinity and all of those attributes, that we are not able to "have". He has me fully, I am enveloped in Him, and that fullness. I have Him, and I am complete, but that doesn't have to mean that He is to endue me with that Divinity; again, because I am not Divine.
As to knowledge--would not complete knowledge then do away for the need for faith on my part? "...faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"
I think there are some things that we are meant to take on faith.
Welcome back, sisrev. Yes, I'm in agreement with you. We cannot have ALL knowledge---our humanity limits that and we are destined to walk by faith, not sight as you have said.
But we can have ALL of Jesus that we need, we desire, and that He longs to impart to us. And that is enough.
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RE: The Jesus you cannot have - 10/17/2008 12:48:38 AM
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kisstheson
Posts: 965
Joined: 5/1/2006
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"But we can have ALL of Jesus that we need, we desire, and that He longs to impart to us. And that is enough. "
yessssssssssssss!
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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