RE: If Being Well Informed on Every Issue is even remotely important, Palin isn't important at all.
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RE: If Being Well Informed on Every Issue is even remot... - 10/2/2008 11:18:36 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2113
Joined: 1/27/2007
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Here is why earmarks are important. They are a corruption of the political process in that they are bribes for votes. It corrupts our political process in two ways.
First, earmarks are bribes to voters.
In using an earmark, a politician takes my money and the money of all Americans and gives it to their constituants in order to gain their favor so that they will, once again, vote for for that politician. It's a payoff.
Furthermore, it is corruption in the form of extortion.
The earmarks in the latest 'Bail Out Bill' are indicative of another corrupting characteristic. If the Bail Out Bill were well written, then it should win on its own merits. But, because it is NOT well written, the leaders of the Senate had to bribe individual members of the Senate with an earmark to pay for their vote for the bill. In the end, this leads to bad legislation that costs far more than the earmarks added to the bill.
Earmarks, from top to bottom, are simply BRIBES. They may be legal bribes. But, bribes, legal or not, are a corruption of freedom. And, what makes it worse, in terms of our political leaders, is that they are using OUR money to use as bribes to pass bills that are so bad that they would not pass otherwise.
I am guessing, by the way, that the real urgency behind the Bail Out Bill is the precarious position we are in over China having bought so much of the bad paper. China is probably the REAL reason for the panic in Washington. If China calls in its chips, we could have some real trouble on our hands.
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ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
No. I would never be able to claim that Obama was anything close to well-informed. A person whose only mantra consists of one word having just 6 letters, without EVER defining what that word is going to mean in our lives, is hardly demonstrating being well-informed.
But, YOU claim to be well-informed. So, let me ask you two questions that baffle me.
The biggest gripe of the American people is the rampant pork barrel earmark process that is so endemic to Washington that they even put 170 million in the Wall Street bail-out bill for rum makers in the Virgin Islands... raising the costs even more. Do you REALLY believe that Obama will change this? If so, HOW?
Secondly, we have NOT been hit by terrorists on this soil since 9/11. CHANGE in this condition is bad. When Obama brings change to this status by taking the pressure off of them overseas, will you come back to apologize to us?
First, I'm interested, not necessarily well-informed. I live in China, so conveniently accessing credible news on the internet is an occasionally arduous process.
As such, I have a question: is the biggest gripe of the American people earmark spending? It's a very tiny fraction of the budget. I'm not certain that it's so important. McCain has been running on it, but I don't know that his message has gotten much traction. His hypocrisy on the issue in selecting "thanks for the bridge" Palin can't have helped. Earmarks haven't really been a key issue for Obama, as far as I can tell, so I don't think he's going to spend a ton of time on it.
Bin Ladin seems to be doing fine in Pakistan. We all know how Obama feels about that. As such, I'm not sure what you're talking about in the second bit.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: If Being Well Informed on Every Issue... - 10/2/2008 11:31:27 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7783
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: online
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quote:
Biden doesn't represent you Jack! Just the rest of us!
Actually, he seems only to represent a very small liberal fraction of us if his voting record is to be considered (I know, unlikely by Democrats).
quote:
Sometimes people will just vote for Bozo the Clown as long as he/she's a "pro-life" Republican! (And can skin a polar bear!) Doesn't matter if they are tax and spend and spend even more Republicans! (What's 9 trillion among friends? ) Or are for eroding our constitutional rights. (Let's strip search grandma for no reason.) Or for detaining people (including American citizens) without due process. (Laws are meant to be broken but only by those in law enforcement. )
Well, sure, and sometimes people will vote for good looking guy who can talk pretty, while being completely ignorant of his leftist history. But we are talking about Palin here, and whatever you think about her, there is no indication she is a 'tax and spend' Republican; indeed, one couldn't even say that about McCain. In fact McCain didn't support Guantanamo, so it seems fairly obvious you haven't studied the candidates all that much.
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Social security will be running a deficit in 2017 but who cares we have Al Qaeda!
Yes, well their is absolutely no evidence Obama will change either.
< Message edited by Jhud -- 10/2/2008 11:42:34 AM >
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: If Being Well Informed on Every Issue is even remot... - 10/2/2008 11:31:51 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2537
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
Here is why earmarks are important. They are a corruption of the political process in that they are bribes for votes. It corrupts our political process in two ways.
First, earmarks are bribes to voters.
In using an earmark, a politician takes my money and the money of all Americans and gives it to their constituants in order to gain their favor so that they will, once again, vote for for that politician. It's a payoff.
Furthermore, it is corruption in the form of extortion.
The earmarks in the latest 'Bail Out Bill' are indicative of another corrupting characteristic. If the Bail Out Bill were well written, then it should win on its own merits. But, because it is NOT well written, the leaders of the Senate had to bribe individual members of the Senate with an earmark to pay for their vote for the bill. In the end, this leads to bad legislation that costs far more than the earmarks added to the bill.
Earmarks, from top to bottom, are simply BRIBES. They may be legal bribes. But, bribes, legal or not, are a corruption of freedom. And, what makes it worse, in terms of our political leaders, is that they are using OUR money to use as bribes to pass bills that are so bad that they would not pass otherwise.
I am guessing, by the way, that the real urgency behind the Bail Out Bill is the precarious position we are in over China having bought so much of the bad paper. China is probably the REAL reason for the panic in Washington. If China calls in its chips, we could have some real trouble on our hands.
This makes way too much sense. But the fox is guarding (or making the rules for) the chicken coop so we all know how far campaign finance reform or appropriations reform will get in this day in age! NOWHERE! Our legislators on both sides of the aisle have distorted appropriations bills for their own greed! How a highway funding bill can fund a grant to some legislator's big donor's company who has nothing to do with highways is beyond me.
At least Mexicans KNOW their government is corrupt! Americans still have rose colored glasses on when it comes to ours!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: If Being Well Informed on Every Issue is even remot... - 10/2/2008 11:36:24 AM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 618
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
Status: online
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to me America doesn't know what it wants. On one hand we get so miffed about these life time politicians. They are so out of touch with us, don't don't have or best interests yadayadayada. And so when we get someone with a lack of federal government experience or not as much then it's like they are not qualified. What is it that we really want??
G
_____________________________
It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: If Being Well Informed on Every Issue... - 10/2/2008 11:39:20 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
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quote:
Well, this attitude seems to be typical of many Obama supporters; impressed by words, completely indifferent to accomplishments.
Typical of the right, look over there, there's a bug, look over there, there's a moon, just don't look at us. 
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: If Being Well Informed on Every Issue... - 10/2/2008 11:41:43 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10951
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Well, this attitude seems to be typical of many Obama supporters; impressed by words, completely indifferent to accomplishments.
Typical of the right, look over there, there's a bug, look over there, there's a moon, just don't look at us.
We are looking for what his accomplishments are! Now, can you name them?
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: If Being Well Informed on Every Issue... - 10/2/2008 11:44:46 AM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1295
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
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quote:
We are looking for what his accomplishments are! Now, can you name them?
uh...hope?...uh...change?
_____________________________
Molon Labe
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RE: If Being Well Informed on Every Issue is even remot... - 10/2/2008 11:47:33 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2113
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
First, I'm interested, not necessarily well-informed. I live in China, so conveniently accessing credible news on the internet is an occasionally arduous process.
Then you, of all people, should know how a charismatic leader can quickly and easily use slogans to remove the freedoms of people. The Cultural Revolution is a perfect case in point. Mao Zedong and, in particular, Jiang Qing, almost decimated China of its intellectual and cultural leadership.
You should also know, if you love freedom, of the brutality of a one-voice government. (Tieneman Square?) The internet, I am sure, is a two-edge sword for your government. On the one hand, it expands it's business outreach and on the other it lets in heredical ideas.
Frankly, we don't want the people of the United States to find itself in that same position. The left in this country have been at work since the 1960s to move us toward a socialist agenda. And, they have not been above using all the tactics that come from the worst of the socialist playbooks. We are at the point where the United States seems to be divided 50/50 on whether to cross over and fully embrace socialism, with its innevitable loss of freedoms, or stand firm for liberty and self reliance. This election is really about this fundemental choice.
It is hidden, however, in the fact that the media, and early primaries, helped to ensure us that we do not have a clear conservative choice in this election. While McCain is far less radically left than Obama, he is just enough of a left leaning politician to make the media feel comfortable that they will win no matter which ticket takes the election. Palin, for the left media, is the fly in the ointment.
You seem to have a level of freedom today that you might not have had 30 years ago. Ask yourself, would you really have the freedom to get on the internet and talk with people all over the world if the United States had gone down the path of socialism/communism as China and Russia chose to do. Don't you at least owe a little of your current freedom to people like me, with whom you disagree, that have worked to fight against those that would take us down that socialist path. For it is the economy that freedom has built that buys the products that have opened up China to things like the internet.
Right now, segments in our country want to take over the free markets. And, they are the same people that caused the current problems with socialist style politicies in the housing market. Freedom is what brings growth and prosperity. Socialism brings only uniform drudgery to the vast majority under its thumb, with a handful of the elite living luxuriously.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: What Sarah does'nt know.... - 10/2/2008 12:05:40 PM
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blue1914
Posts: 398
Joined: 6/21/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
It is reverse elitism. Above average is shunned.
Obama isn't rejected for being 'above average' he is rejected for being wrong.
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I think Sarah Palin makes that a difficult position to take seriously. I sincerely doubt that she's alone in that respect, but it's amusing and potentially disastrous for her to be on the ticket.
Well, as you are someone who wouldn't support her even if she was President of Mensa, I find as always your words to be more than disingenuous.
Now you do bring up a very interesting point-for those who are pre-disposed toward supporting Mrs. Palin and Mr. McCain, there are a lot of ways to excuse those things that others may find damaging to their qualifications and their bid.
Now can I ask you-as one who is admittedly a supporter of Mrs. Palin-what of her public appearances (or even her record as Mayor or Governor) makes you feel that she truly has a firm grasp upon issues of STATE (as in at least a passing understanding on those things that a president-or at times a presidential proxy-must deal with on a day to day basis)?
I'll concede-from a strict "experience" standpoint, it is difficult to make distinctions between her service record and Mr. Obama's-the one thing that I see different between the two of them is that Mr. Obama has invested a lot of time and energy in educating himself about those areas where he is deficient in experience-at least such that he is able to give a clear answer which proves that he UNDERSTANDS the question he has been asked (whether you agree with his answer or not). This concerns me about Mrs. Palin. Additionally, this was true BEFORE he began his White House bid and really stretches beyond the role he was elected to-that of U.S. Senator. THIS fact is why he was at the least seriously considered for nomination by his party. Those who did NOT have this same type of background (favorite sons such as Edwards, etc. etc.) didn't fare as well - though on paper they may have looked more like the composition of the "base" of the party - and that was not by accident.
Compare and contrast Mrs. Palin with Mr. Biden here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBt0r9Exv2I&eurl=http://outtheotherear.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/now-the-constitutions-become-shaky-ground/
The substance of Mr. Biden's answer aside, it's difficult to argue that it was not at least indicative of a firm grasp of the subject matter by Mr. Biden. Mrs. Palin on the other hand looked like a first term member of the House of Representatives, come to Washington to wave a flag for her home state. Great to rally the troops especially if they are from your home state, but not a real indicator of leadership ability.
Do you disagree-as in do you feel Mrs. Palin is proving imminent qualification for the role by her past experiences and current public image, etc.? If so, why? If you agree but don't want to admit it (I know, I've been there before  ), what mitigating factors reassure you about Mrs. Palin? I'm curious if those who support Mrs. Palin really BELIEVE in her or are supporting her because she is where she is.
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RE: What Sarah does'nt know.... - 10/2/2008 12:24:26 PM
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blue1914
Posts: 398
Joined: 6/21/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Fred Thompson blistered CBS for the idiotic Couric question. Then the correspondent raised the question about the number of republican's that were concerned about her. Thompson brilliantly flipped the tables on her and said what kind of numbers are we talking about here?
Yes, here is that clip.
I will admit, the points Mr. Thompson makes are sound, salient and they did INDEED put the interviewer on the defensive - especially the comments about the financial interest of Gwen Ifill. While I believe that Ms. Ifill will give an impartial performance-especially given the number of eyes on what she is doing-it's just not smart for her to still be the moderator of the debate, espeically given the fact that this fact about her book was known months ago.
What I admired most about Mr. Thompson's exposition is that it did NOT devolve into the emotionalism that I have often seen around the defenses given for Mrs. Palin. Mr. Thompson looked like he believed what he said, he did not try to defend by re characterizing the indefensible, he agreed with the obvious (which gave him credibility) and counterpointed with his point of view. THAT is what I would love to see more of from Mrs. Palin's supporters-why do YOU like her-don't defend her (especially when you are doing so with an indefensible argument-yes, Alaska is close to Russia but I sometimes stand next to my stove at home-does that make me a pot roast?), show what's to LIKE about her.
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RE: What Sarah does'nt know.... - 10/2/2008 12:42:01 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10951
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
I'll concede-from a strict "experience" standpoint, it is difficult to make distinctions between her service record and Mr. Obama's-the one thing that I see different between the two of them is that Mr. Obama has invested a lot of time and energy in educating himself about those areas where he is deficient in experience-at least such that he is able to give a clear answer which proves that he UNDERSTANDS the question he has been asked (whether you agree with his answer or not). This concerns me about Mrs. Palin. Additionally, this was true BEFORE he began his White House bid and really stretches beyond the role he was elected to-that of U.S. Senator. THIS fact is why he was at the least seriously considered for nomination by his party. Those who did NOT have this same type of background (favorite sons such as Edwards, etc. etc.) didn't fare as well - though on paper they may have looked more like the composition of the "base" of the party - and that was not by accident. Mr. Obama has been in grooming by the best on the left for elected office since his "community organizing" days, that's quite a few years. I see the major difference in this is that Palin is the "Mr. Smith goes to Washington" sort whereas Obama is the die hard career politician who wants to advance mainly - himself.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: What Sarah does'nt know.... - 10/2/2008 12:42:30 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7783
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: online
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quote:
Do you disagree-as in do you feel Mrs. Palin is proving imminent qualification for the role by her past experiences and current public image, etc.? If so, why? If you agree but don't want to admit it (I know, I've been there before ), what mitigating factors reassure you about Mrs. Palin? I'm curious if those who support Mrs. Palin really BELIEVE in her or are supporting her because she is where she is.
Bill Dyer does a guest post at Hugh Hewitt's site that does a better job than I could of examining Palin's accomplishments:
Gov. Palin is now finishing up her second year as Governor of Alaska. Even added to her years as a city councilman and mayor, or her service as chair and ethics officer of the Alaska Oil & Gas Conservation Commission, that is not a very long record. But length is only one dimension. How deep is her record?
The answer to that question is critically important. Joe Biden has been a senator, as Gov. Palin points out, since Gov. Palin was in grade school, so of course he has a long record. With that seniority has come committee chair positions, first on the Senate Judiciary Committee, then on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. But on closer examination, neither as a committee chairman nor a legislator has Slow Joe Biden particularly distinguished himself. His greatest legislative triumph has been in championing revisions to the bankruptcy code that dramatically changed the slope of the playing field to favor his home-state credit card companies in consumer bankruptcy proceedings — an accomplishment much disdained, in fact, by the Hard Left. So what, by contrast, has Gov. Sarah Palin done in her dramatically shorter tenure as a state chief executive?
If you only know three things that Sarah Palin has accomplished as Governor of Alaska, it should be these three:
Gov. Palin is a proven fiscal conservative who used her line-item veto to slash hundreds of millions of dollars in spending from the state budget. In considering this accomplishment, keep in mind that the Alaska Legislature is controlled by the GOP, meaning that the funding she cut had already been approved by legislators of her own party. Nevertheless, she made her vetoes stick. Consider, too, that because of the current high price of crude oil, Alaska is enjoying record budget surpluses. It's harder to practice restraint in times of plenty. And look at her entire record over time (more than as revealed by her position on a single bridge): Although Alaska has traditionally been more dependent than other states on federal funding (since the federal government owns such a large portion of the state's property and resources), even the often-critical Anchorage Daily News admits that Gov. Palin has "increasingly distanced herself from earmarking" since 2000, and that her having done so over the past year has been "the leading source of tension between Palin and the state's three-member congressional delegation." Actually exercising fiscal discipline in a time of plenty, at both state and federal levels and against the will of the members of her own party, is a better predictor for how she would actually govern on a national level than ten thousand campaign promises.
Gov. Palin kept her campaign promise to revamp the state's pre-existing severance tax on oil & gas production, replacing a structure negotiated behind closed doors by ethically challenged predecessors and the big energy companies with one negotiated in full public view — and then rebated part of the resulting surplus directly to tax-payers. Severance taxes are a kind of property tax charged on a one-time basis, at the time of production, on subsurface assets (like oil, gas & minerals) which can't be quantified and taxed through regular property taxes. There was widespread resentment and distrust over the version negotiated by Gov. Palin's predecessor with the three big energy companies who've traditionally ruled the roost in Alaska (ExxonMobil, ConocoPhillips, and BP). The new version negotiated and passed with Gov. Palin's support was thoroughly disinfected by the sunshine of public scrutiny. Although it's not a "windfall profits tax" — indeed, the base rate only went from 22.5% to 25% — it did permit the Alaskan people to share in a larger portion of the current high prices for oil by raising the additional, progressive portion of the tax from 0.25% to 0.40% on revenues between $32.50 and $90/bbl. Above that, however, the new law actually cut taxes by dropping the rate on revenues above $90/bbl to 0.1%. With the resulting budget surplus, after contributing to the state's fund for that future day when its oil & gas wealth is exhausted, she pressed for and got legislation to rebate a healthy chunk directly to tax-payers on a per capita basis, trusting them to spend the proceeds from this sale of the state's commonly-owned resources rather than trusting government to spend it for them.
Gov. Palin broke a multi-year stalemate over the financing and construction of a $40 billion cross-state gas pipeline that will deliver cleaner, cheaper natural gas to Alaska's own population centers (Alaskans themselves pay some of the nation's highest energy prices), while also delivering gas to the energy-hungry Lower 48. To do this, she had to break the monopoly power of the big energy companies by opening the project to competitive international bidding. Not only has a development contract with a Canadian company now been signed on better terms than had previously been discussed, but the former monopolists — finally spurred by competition — are cranking up their own plan that would not require any taxpayer investment. How precisely this will shake out remains to be seen, but Gov. Palin's vigorous action — calling special sessions of the state legislature and injecting herself directly and vigorously into the process — has ended the deadlock in ways that seem certain to benefit consumers. By this accomplishment, Gov. Palin has done more to advance the cause of American energy independence than any other politician — of any party, and at any level of state or federal government — in this century. But the national media have generally ignored this accomplishment.
It's no accident that Gov. Palin remains immensely popular in her home state, notwithstanding the widespread derision of the national elites. Her actual accomplishments in office are vastly disproportionate to her time spent in office, but her constituents value the results she's gotten.
And isn't that what we want? Should we want politicians who have been in office a long time without getting anything done? Should we want the kind of "wisdom" shown by Slow Joe Biden, who opposed the nominations of both Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Alito, and who proposed that we subdivide Iraq into three parts (each to be dominated by a different foreign interest)? Should we prefer someone like Barack Obama in the top job as POTUS, even though he has no longer tenure than Gov. Palin and conspicuously fewer actual accomplishments?
And Hannity had a very good interview with her yesterday which I think demonstrates that she is more than competently handles straight forward questions of substance rather than the little quiz gotchas that seem to have typified her other interviews. I think she should have been able to handle those questions, but her failure to do so doesn't seem to indicate a lack of intelligence.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: What Sarah does'nt know.... - 10/2/2008 12:43:02 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2537
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blue1914
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
It is reverse elitism. Above average is shunned.
Obama isn't rejected for being 'above average' he is rejected for being wrong.
quote:
I think Sarah Palin makes that a difficult position to take seriously. I sincerely doubt that she's alone in that respect, but it's amusing and potentially disastrous for her to be on the ticket.
Well, as you are someone who wouldn't support her even if she was President of Mensa, I find as always your words to be more than disingenuous.
Now you do bring up a very interesting point-for those who are pre-disposed toward supporting Mrs. Palin and Mr. McCain, there are a lot of ways to excuse those things that others may find damaging to their qualifications and their bid.
Now can I ask you-as one who is admittedly a supporter of Mrs. Palin-what of her public appearances (or even her record as Mayor or Governor) makes you feel that she truly has a firm grasp upon issues of STATE (as in at least a passing understanding on those things that a president-or at times a presidential proxy-must deal with on a day to day basis)?
I'll concede-from a strict "experience" standpoint, it is difficult to make distinctions between her service record and Mr. Obama's-the one thing that I see different between the two of them is that Mr. Obama has invested a lot of time and energy in educating himself about those areas where he is deficient in experience-at least such that he is able to give a clear answer which proves that he UNDERSTANDS the question he has been asked (whether you agree with his answer or not). This concerns me about Mrs. Palin. Additionally, this was true BEFORE he began his White House bid and really stretches beyond the role he was elected to-that of U.S. Senator. THIS fact is why he was at the least seriously considered for nomination by his party. Those who did NOT have this same type of background (favorite sons such as Edwards, etc. etc.) didn't fare as well - though on paper they may have looked more like the composition of the "base" of the party - and that was not by accident.
Compare and contrast Mrs. Palin with Mr. Biden here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBt0r9Exv2I&eurl=http://outtheotherear.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/now-the-constitutions-become-shaky-ground/
The substance of Mr. Biden's answer aside, it's difficult to argue that it was not at least indicative of a firm grasp of the subject matter by Mr. Biden. Mrs. Palin on the other hand looked like a first term member of the House of Representatives, come to Washington to wave a flag for her home state. Great to rally the troops especially if they are from your home state, but not a real indicator of leadership ability.
Do you disagree-as in do you feel Mrs. Palin is proving imminent qualification for the role by her past experiences and current public image, etc.? If so, why? If you agree but don't want to admit it (I know, I've been there before ), what mitigating factors reassure you about Mrs. Palin? I'm curious if those who support Mrs. Palin really BELIEVE in her or are supporting her because she is where she is.
So Sarah Palin is pro-life but believes states should choose for themselves whether to be pro-life or pro-choice? Maybe she just can't spell ambiguity.
I love it when these PRO-LIFE politicians give a non-answer when questioned about Roe v. Wade. As long as she can make it illegal in her home state who gives a rip about a nationwide ban! Pay attention to how panicked her breathing gets when she knows she doesn't have an answer!
And this is supposed to be one of her deeply held beliefs! Unbelievable!
Here's a cheat sheet for next time.
"I believe that life begins at conception and as such that those un-born lives are just as protected under our Constitution in the guarantees of life (the most fundamental of all rights), liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Therefore, I would work to overturn Roe v. Wade based on that fundamental right to life!"
"SCOTUS cases? Sure Katie two stand out in my head and fortunately they were overturned by later cases. Plessy v. Ferguson (the separate but equal doctrine) and the Dred Scott decision (allowing slavery in US territories and commanding the return of runaway slaves to their former slaveowners).
Or she could also include Edwards v. Aguillard which prohibited the teaching of creationism in public schools as an unconstitutional establishment of religion. And Roe v. Wade for something "within her lifetime". She remembers when she was in 2nd grade at least!
Maybe she should insist on the questions beforehand so they could educate her on stuff they covered in that high school government class she obviously slept through. I just hope she doesn't mix up the cue cards!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: What Sarah does'nt know.... - 10/2/2008 12:44:56 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1295
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
Status: offline
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quote:
So Sarah Palin is pro-life but believes states should choose for themselves whether to be pro-life or pro-choice? Maybe she just can't spell ambiguity.
She's right. It's a States Rights issue.
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Molon Labe
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RE: What Sarah does'nt know.... - 10/2/2008 12:58:44 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7783
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: online
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"SCOTUS cases? Sure Katie two stand out in my head and fortunately they were overturned by later cases. Plessy v. Ferguson (the separate but equal doctrine) and the Dred Scott decision (allowing slavery in US territories and commanding the return of runaway slaves to their former slaveowners).
Dred Scott? I would think this one is hardly contreversial at this point in time.
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Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: What Sarah does'nt know.... - 10/2/2008 1:27:46 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10951
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
"SCOTUS cases? Sure Katie two stand out in my head and fortunately they were overturned by later cases. Plessy v. Ferguson (the separate but equal doctrine) and the Dred Scott decision (allowing slavery in US territories and commanding the return of runaway slaves to their former slaveowners).
Dred Scott? I would think this one is hardly contreversial at this point in time.
Well, maybe not to you...
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: If Being Well Informed on Every Issue... - 10/2/2008 2:38:50 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1704
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Biden doesn't represent you Jack! Just the rest of us!
Sometimes people will just vote for Bozo the Clown as long as he/she's a "pro-life" Republican!
How ironic that you use Biden and Bozo to illustrate your point. LOL
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The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: If Being Well Informed on Every Issue... - 10/2/2008 2:46:40 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1704
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
While McCain is far less radically left than Obama, he is just enough of a left leaning politician to make the media feel comfortable that they will win no matter which ticket takes the election. Palin, for the left media, is the fly in the ointment.
And that's why the media has gone after Palin so hard. She does not fit in with the socialist agenda and, therefore, was a bad pick. Now McCain has thrown a wrinkle into the plan. I heard a guest host on a radio talk show quote someone, I wish I could remember who it was and exactly what the quote was, say that socialism will prevail under the guise of liberalism. if anyone knows who said or what the exact quote is, please post it.
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The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: If Being Well Informed on Every Issue... - 10/2/2008 3:44:45 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 784
Joined: 8/6/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Well, this attitude seems to be typical of many Obama supporters; impressed by words, completely indifferent to accomplishments.
Typical of the right, look over there, there's a bug, look over there, there's a moon, just don't look at us.
To be fair to the apologists, Palin has neither accomplishments nor words in her favor so they gotta work really hard.
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
Then you, of all people, should know how a charismatic leader can quickly and easily use slogans to remove the freedoms of people. The Cultural Revolution is a perfect case in point. Mao Zedong and, in particular, Jiang Qing, almost decimated China of its intellectual and cultural leadership.
You should also know, if you love freedom, of the brutality of a one-voice government. (Tieneman Square?) The internet, I am sure, is a two-edge sword for your government. On the one hand, it expands it's business outreach and on the other it lets in heredical ideas.
Frankly, we don't want the people of the United States to find itself in that same position. The left in this country have been at work since the 1960s to move us toward a socialist agenda. And, they have not been above using all the tactics that come from the worst of the socialist playbooks. We are at the point where the United States seems to be divided 50/50 on whether to cross over and fully embrace socialism, with its innevitable loss of freedoms, or stand firm for liberty and self reliance. This election is really about this fundemental choice.
It is hidden, however, in the fact that the media, and early primaries, helped to ensure us that we do not have a clear conservative choice in this election. While McCain is far less radically left than Obama, he is just enough of a left leaning politician to make the media feel comfortable that they will win no matter which ticket takes the election. Palin, for the left media, is the fly in the ointment.
You seem to have a level of freedom today that you might not have had 30 years ago. Ask yourself, would you really have the freedom to get on the internet and talk with people all over the world if the United States had gone down the path of socialism/communism as China and Russia chose to do. Don't you at least owe a little of your current freedom to people like me, with whom you disagree, that have worked to fight against those that would take us down that socialist path. For it is the economy that freedom has built that buys the products that have opened up China to things like the internet.
Right now, segments in our country want to take over the free markets. And, they are the same people that caused the current problems with socialist style politicies in the housing market. Freedom is what brings growth and prosperity. Socialism brings only uniform drudgery to the vast majority under its thumb, with a handful of the elite living luxuriously.
Sorry, I unintentionally misled you. I'm an American, but I've been in China for a while. I appreciate the thoughts you put out, but they're slightly misdirected and you have my apologies for the confusion.
The problem with the cultural revolution (and pretty much everything else that happened since 1950) isn't a problem of charismatic leadership, it's a problem of power bring concentrated in a single person or a few people. It's not even a problem of the government being too powerful. A strong, large (socialist) government that has democratic underpinnings is still a government that serves (and is accountable to) the people. I've noted in other threads, socialism does not necessarily end up with a singularly powerful dictator. Many tines, socialism can be akin to, say, any number of current northern European countries.
America can have a charismatic leader. I submit that, all else being equal, a charismatic leader is much better than an uncharismatic one. Reagan was a charismatic leader. I'm sure you and I would disagree on the positive/negative impact of his policies, but I think we can both agree that his charisma wasn't leading anyone to a dictatorship at the head of the United States. I would argue that his charisma was ultimately for the better.
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RE: If Being Well Informed on Every Issue... - 10/2/2008 3:50:28 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1352
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
While McCain is far less radically left than Obama, he is just enough of a left leaning politician to make the media feel comfortable that they will win no matter which ticket takes the election. Palin, for the left media, is the fly in the ointment.
And that's why the media has gone after Palin so hard. She does not fit in with the socialist agenda and, therefore, was a bad pick. Now McCain has thrown a wrinkle into the plan. I heard a guest host on a radio talk show quote someone, I wish I could remember who it was and exactly what the quote was, say that socialism will prevail under the guise of liberalism. if anyone knows who said or what the exact quote is, please post it.
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism", they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened".
Norman Thomas, for many years the U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate
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Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: If Being Well Informed on Every Issue... - 10/2/2008 4:05:24 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1027
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
I heard Bay Buchanon a Republican say she should do like George Bush and admit in the debate she is not knowledgable about these things and be herself.
I think that's good advice. People will relate to her better if she is just herself...people know when a candidate is giving a scripted answer (and in her case, she just does very poorly with scripted answers).
Sarah being real would be quite a contrast with professional politician Joe.
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RE: If Being Well Informed on Every Issue... - 10/2/2008 4:06:28 PM
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phreddy
Posts: 278
Joined: 3/28/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
To be fair to the | | |
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