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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 1:24:52 PM
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kohls356
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Well first I will say how nice it was to see Michelle holding the little ones. I loved the couisn, she was great. It kind of felt like the couple was some kind of side show with everyone waiting and looking out the window. It was nice to see them all excited though.
I would like to know how long Josh and Anna had really talked to each other and how well they really know each other. As the future wife I would like to have some say in the house we would live in. She didn't seem to care but I think that is what bugs me the girl is expected to just accept whatever and not have a choice or say. But if they are fine with that more power to them. I just wonder if they really know it doesn't have to be that way.
I was thinking with all the hand holding they were doing it might have been just better to just get a little kiss in. I hear their reasons just don't agree with them. I was wondering too if they had really spent any other time together other than just talking. I just found it strange that two people who really hadn't even been around each other could really really know they love them so much to keep saying it.
I think the whole chaperone thing is kind of strange with two people who are 20. What I kept thinking was they are engaged but it almost seems like the beginnings of dating because they really didn't seem to know each other. And I don't know why they would need chaperones anyway since they had the camera crew with them.
I know the kids kept saying how it wasn't their parents that made them not kiss and court etc. But when they were all sitting on the couch Michelle seemed to make it pretty clear that they could hold hands but they were not going to kiss that would wait until the wedding day. Seems to me that the parents had a lot more say in than the kids even realize. I don't think I would want something as private and possibly awkward as my first kiss being done in front of people after saying my vows.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 1:42:47 PM
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Ellie-Mae
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the TV people want to show as close as possible what they would be doing if there were no cameras at all. I am sure that the cameras would have made very good chaperones, but then they would be taking away from what normal life would be like if the cameras weren't there.
And what is the big thing about not kissing? There isn't a good reason why they should have to kiss before they are married. Good Grief! With all the promiscuity about, it is wonderful that they are taking a different path. Kids get lambasted if they go too far AND now get lambasted for not going for enough. Of all the things to complain about or tear someone down for... it just doesn't make sense.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 1:52:14 PM
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kohls356
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ellie-Mae
the TV people want to show as close as possible what they would be doing if there were no cameras at all. I am sure that the cameras would have made very good chaperones, but then they would be taking away from what normal life would be like if the cameras weren't there.
And what is the big thing about not kissing? There isn't a good reason why they should have to kiss before they are married. Good Grief! With all the promiscuity about, it is wonderful that they are taking a different path. Kids get lambasted if they go too far AND now get lambasted for not going for enough. Of all the things to complain about or tear someone down for... it just doesn't make sense.
Oh that makes sense about the camera people.
As far as the kissing oh well agree to disagree. I don't think kissing your future spouse is taking away any of your purity. They talk so much about not giving any of their heart away, I would say after the way they were acting they had started to give some of their heart away. To me saying I love you over and over again is the beginning of giving your heart to someone. So if they hadn't ended up getting married then it would appear they had given part of their heart away already. I think a kiss is an outward sign of what is already going on in the heart.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 2:04:52 PM
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Ellie-Mae
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quote:
I don't think kissing your future spouse is taking away any of your purity.
And certainly NOT kissing isn't going to take away from their purity. There is nothing wrong with someone drawing the line on the safe side even if it is different than where you draw your line.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 2:17:37 PM
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kohls356
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ellie-Mae
quote:
I don't think kissing your future spouse is taking away any of your purity.
And certainly NOT kissing isn't going to take away from their purity. There is nothing wrong with someone drawing the line on the safe side even if it is different than where you draw your line.
I agree that there isn't anything wrong with drawing the line. What I don't understand is how they think that is guarding their heart? I mean I would hope that just because someone accepts the proposal they would be able to get out of it if they ended up feeling like this wasn't the right person after all. Which is why I don't have problem with dating really. Because from what I know and saw about the courting they just kind of skipped that step and went straight from talking over the phone to engaged and now they are going to get to know one another. I think it would be harder to actually have a ring and be engaged and then realize that maybe this isn't the right thing to do instead of getting to know the person first and just not get engaged. In either case I don't care what they have said they have given a little bit of their heart away.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 2:26:43 PM
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Ellie-Mae
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And how would kissing be guarding one's heart?
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 2:30:39 PM
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kohls356
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How is holding hands and telling someone over and over that they love them guarding their heart?
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 2:33:28 PM
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Ellie-Mae
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I said nothing about them holding hands. You are arguing that they should kiss. That is what I am addressing.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 3:13:47 PM
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stellaluna
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I believe he said he read the 97% in the paper. But he didn't say which paper, so I can't look it up that way.
I think the whole guarding your heart thing is...unrealistic. I'd like to know who came up with that. Even a 12-year-old with a crush isn't guarding his or her heart. And frankly, when I look back on some of my relationships, I can see where I certainly gave a couple of people the worst of me. It was so gratifying to know how I could be in a relationship and learn how I didn't want to be with the person I spend my life with. Meh. I just have different ideas about relationships than they do, although it bugs me a little bit that they are 20. Age 15? Sure, have chaperones. 20? Be adult if you are one.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 3:19:20 PM
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macokjc
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I can not believe that on a Christian web-site, a family is being criticzied for having standards and expecting their children to abide by them. Even when we were over 18, as long as we were under my parents' roof, we were asked to follow their rules.
When I was engaged, my parents still asked us to take a brother or sister along on a date - why? Because 2 years earlier my brother's girlfriend got pregnant. Was that my fault, no - but it didn't always bother me that they came along. In this day and age you don't have to look too far to see somebody whose life has been troubled by casual sex. Does one kiss mean that they will have sex, of course not. However, jumping in the sack together is hardly ever the first step.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 3:32:13 PM
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phosadaud
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ellie-Mae
I understand about previous relationships bring trouble (although I missed that part). I wish that I could have been like my hubby with no one before him. I really didn't trust God to have such awesome plans for my life. And Yes, having previous relationships can certainly affect your relationship with your hubby 10 years later. And while God can wash it all away, He often does not wash away the consequences of our decisions.
I think my issue is the idea that just having a boyfriend is harmful (which to me is what was implied). Yes, if you and your boyfriend behave improperly or you are in a harmful relationship (abusive, etc), that will impact your future, but just having a boyfriend isn't a bad thing IMO.
I haven't had a lot of boyfriends over the years, but the ones I had all helped me grow in myself, know what I want & need, know what I can provide and what I need to work on. I just don't see how that will "harm" my future marriage. Affect? Yes, but everything in my life & past (good AND bad) will affect my future.
As far as kissing. I don't have an issue with folks choosing not to kiss. I know people who have done this for specific reasons and I thought it was a beautiful thing. My only concern is if they are being taught that kissing before you wedding day is always harmful and not "pure". There are many ways to kiss and it doesn't have to be about revving the engines up if you know what I mean.  One can remain quite "pure" and kiss. Do couples HAVE to kiss? Of course not! But, as with most things, I think you can go too far. Remember when Michelle indicated that Josh had asked them if it was "ok" to hold hands with his new fiancee? Even she thought that was a little silly.
I guess my concern is, if you spend all your time building up a wall of protection, are you really getting to know each other?
I don't know if that makes any sense. I'm having a hard time articulating the thoughts going through my head right now. 
Also, I touched on this in an earlier post, but do they have non-family members who will help guide and mentor them in their new marriage? It's hard to leave and cleave when you are still depending on your parents to help mentor you through your marriage (and even the best couples on the planet need support as they learn to build their lives together). Does anyone know?
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 3:49:46 PM
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kohls356
Posts: 364
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ellie-Mae
I said nothing about them holding hands. You are arguing that they should kiss. That is what I am addressing.
First of all I am not arguing. I am also not saying that they have to kiss. I just don't think that kissing makes one not pure. If they really think that kissing makes them unpure and they need to guard their hearts then hand holding and saying I love you over and over like two kids having a crush can also be giving away a piece of their hearts.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 3:51:44 PM
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kohls356
Posts: 364
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ellie-Mae
I understand about previous relationships bring trouble (although I missed that part). I wish that I could have been like my hubby with no one before him. I really didn't trust God to have such awesome plans for my life. And Yes, having previous relationships can certainly affect your relationship with your hubby 10 years later. And while God can wash it all away, He often does not wash away the consequences of our decisions.
I think my issue is the idea that just having a boyfriend is harmful (which to me is what was implied). Yes, if you and your boyfriend behave improperly or you are in a harmful relationship (abusive, etc), that will impact your future, but just having a boyfriend isn't a bad thing IMO.
I haven't had a lot of boyfriends over the years, but the ones I had all helped me grow in myself, know what I want & need, know what I can provide and what I need to work on. I just don't see how that will "harm" my future marriage. Affect? Yes, but everything in my life & past (good AND bad) will affect my future.
As far as kissing. I don't have an issue with folks choosing not to kiss. I know people who have done this for specific reasons and I thought it was a beautiful thing. My only concern is if they are being taught that kissing before you wedding day is always harmful and not "pure". There are many ways to kiss and it doesn't have to be about revving the engines up if you know what I mean. One can remain quite "pure" and kiss. Do couples HAVE to kiss? Of course not! But, as with most things, I think you can go too far. Remember when Michelle indicated that Josh had asked them if it was "ok" to hold hands with his new fiancee? Even she thought that was a little silly.
I guess my concern is, if you spend all your time building up a wall of protection, are you really getting to know each other?
I don't know if that makes any sense. I'm having a hard time articulating the thoughts going through my head right now.
Also, I touched on this in an earlier post, but do they have non-family members who will help guide and mentor them in their new marriage? It's hard to leave and cleave when you are still depending on your parents to help mentor you through your marriage (and even the best couples on the planet need support as they learn to build their lives together). Does anyone know?
You said what I am thinking only in a much better and clear way.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 5:49:36 PM
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Mark328
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I'm lead to think that JimBob's comment about Michelle having boyfriends before they met and that she brought "baggage" into their relationship is garbage. I think he was jealous about her having boyfriends prior to him.
Just my 2 pennies.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 7:20:51 PM
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3tulips
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
I'm lead to think that JimBob's comment about Michelle having boyfriends before they met and that she brought "baggage" into their relationship is garbage. I think he was jealous about her having boyfriends prior to him.
Just my 2 pennies.
I agree! What did she do with these boyfriends that he has a problem with?
Also, what if one of his kids is courting someone, they uncover something they don't like or can't live with in that person, break it off (don't marry them), and now they have this so called "bagage" because they have dated someone else?
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 9:41:54 PM
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TorchHeart
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quote:
I said nothing about them holding hands. You are arguing that they should kiss. That is what I am addressing.
I'm not saying that they SHOULD kiss. I'm saying that the parents stirctly forbidding it is just another sign of how over-the-top these people are. There's nothing wrong with kissing. Its part of dating and growing in your relationship and expressing affection for one another in an appropriate manner as far as I'm concerned.
Again, I say that it reminds me of some kind of compound. Very overly-strict and controlling. Maybe that's how they feel they have to do it since they've had so many kids.
I'd like to see what would happen if Josh DID kiss his fiance. Or if one of the kids started dating someone the parents didn't approve of (such as them being of a different faith or race). Or if there was just a small, teen-aged rebellion by one of the kids. Not that I want to see trouble, but I want to see how Jimbob and Michelle actually deal with something that they don't agree with.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 10:39:52 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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HERE are the first two wedding pictures.
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Now thank we all our God, with hearts and hands and voices, what wondrous things He's done, in whom the world rejoices.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 10:48:22 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 3718
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
I'm not saying that they SHOULD kiss. I'm saying that the parents stirctly forbidding it is just another sign of how over-the-top these people are.
I think I agree with this. By the time you're 20 parents can talk about what they'd like you to do, and they can certainly say "we don't want this activity under our roof", but to forbid kissing period between 2 twenty year olds, forcing them to have chaperons... it just seems like a little to much.
And Josh is not financially dependent on them, as it turns out. He more then has the means to provide for himself and his wife, so they were simply imposing their commands on him because he hasn't married yet and therefore has not moved out yet.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 10:56:21 PM
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stellaluna
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Okay, here is what my friend said:
quote:
It was our first Duggar experience.. I think the parents are weird.. the father reminds me of a weird cult member.. and they kinda are.. plus he ticked me off about what he said about his wife.. the oldest son got engaged and is entering into ‘courtship’.. the father says that he thinks its how it should be.. my wife was with a few boys before me and she had a lot of baggage.. but the way he said it made me think he was almost calling her a [word against TOS].. I mean, its cool to be pure.. I think its great and more people should be that way.. I would love to be a virgin before marriage.. but come on.. hold her hand!! Kiss her!!
I haven't written her back yet, but she knows I wanted to know what she thought to I could tell you guys.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 11:53:14 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2678
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
Okay, here is what my friend said:
quote:
It was our first Duggar experience.. I think the parents are weird.. the father reminds me of a weird cult member.. and they kinda are.. plus he ticked me off about what he said about his wife.. the oldest son got engaged and is entering into ‘courtship’.. the father says that he thinks its how it should be.. my wife was with a few boys before me and she had a lot of baggage.. but the way he said it made me think he was almost calling her a [word against TOS].. I mean, its cool to be pure.. I think its great and more people should be that way.. I would love to be a virgin before marriage.. but come on.. hold her hand!! Kiss her!!
I haven't written her back yet, but she knows I wanted to know what she thought to I could tell you guys.
For those who watched the show, is that really how JimBob sounded? If a young woman's past bothers someone a lot, they don't HAVE to go for that person (before marriage, I mean)..if he really wanted complete purity, he could look for someone else, I mean, back then, I don't mean dump his wife now. Now I'm starting to wonder if some of their extreme views have to do with unresolved past guilt. Although, she was only 17 when she married..that's not a whole lot of years to build up a lot of baggage.
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Now thank we all our God, with hearts and hands and voices, what wondrous things He's done, in whom the world rejoices.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/8/2008 4:49:21 AM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2678
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
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quote:
I hope that my kids also don't kiss before their wedding day. I think that it is wonderful. I understand about previous relationships bring trouble (although I missed that part). I wish that I could have been like my hubby with no one before him. I really didn't trust God to have such awesome plans for my life. And Yes, having previous relationships can certainly affect your relationship with your hubby 10 years later. And while God can wash it all away, He often does not wash away the consequences of our decisions.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I believe in purity before marriage. By the grace of God, I've been pure in that area for the most part (I kissed one guy ONCE, and cuddled/hugged/held hands with another guy ONCE, but that is ALL)..and that last (and first) kiss was YEARS ago..and since then I committed to saving the next kiss for my wedding..
I was just trying to say that while encouraging purity on the one hand, it is important to not drive those who HAVE stumbled into despair..they can turn to a Saviour who can wash away their sin, just as He washed away the sins of ALL who are saved..and we have ALL sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, even if it wasn't sexual sin. And they can marry, and God can bless their marriage.
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Now thank we all our God, with hearts and hands and voices, what wondrous things He's done, in whom the world rejoices.
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). And it's not just Christians who have values regarding abstinence until marriage. 
