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Growing Kids God's Way - 9/18/2008 12:48:11 PM
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TimnotTimmy
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Has anyone taken the class, Growing Kids God's Way? What is your opinion? Both pro and con.
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RE: Growing Kids God's Way - 9/18/2008 1:03:24 PM
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deermousie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TimnotTimmy
Has anyone taken the class, Growing Kids God's Way? What is your opinion? Both pro and con.
I took it but don't remember much (I was under the influence of a toddler and wasn't in my right mind). I've heard a lot of criticism about it from other Christians, though, with points that seemed to justify a closer look. I realize not every way is going to work in every family; God doesn't give us a lot of little details on childrearing and we have to look at principles.
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RE: Growing Kids God's Way - 9/18/2008 1:15:11 PM
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ta_mosquito
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Moving from Marriage to Parenting.
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RE: Growing Kids God's Way - 9/18/2008 1:33:19 PM
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Homegrownkids
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I use to own the video tapes. I got alot of good info. out of it. I enjoyed them. Like with anything, you have to eat the meat and spit out the bones. Not everything is that idealistic and not everything will work out perfectly with every family and each child. But, I did enjoy it. I did not do the whole study... just watched the VHS's.
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RE: Growing Kids God's Way - 9/18/2008 1:36:47 PM
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stateofgrace
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Tim,
I'm going to encourage caution. Sometimes things may sound "right" but may not necessarily be biblical, or an application may not be the only way to apply a biblical concept.
The class is no longer called "Growing Kids God's Way" but now is called "Let the Children Come - Along the Righteous Way." It's been a good 12 years or so since hubby and I took the class, so there are things that could have changed or even been slightly reworded since the time we took it.
Here are some of the issues I had with the class -
The Ezzos taught that spanking was necessary to relieve a child of guilt, that parents who didn't spank were in sin and causing their children to be in sin (I really don't want to dredge up that part of my past, but if necessary, I can provide the quotes directly from the printed material). While not wanting to get off track into a one-stop thread's territory, there are some children for whom spanking is not the most effective discipline method. We had one of them. In fact, we had a child who had some serious problems triggered by us trying to implement the Ezzos' discipline methods (because of a pre-existing condition that we were unaware of at the time).
Number two - I do not find scriptural justification for the marriage relationship always taking priority (the primary justification given by Gary Ezzo was the "rule of first mention" in the bible...since Adam and Eve's relationship came before a parent/child relationship, it must be more important!). Most families I know, even Ezzo-following families, in their day-to-day lives realize that infants and very young children, as well as sick children, will have to at times take priority over the marriage relationship. However, I felt that the Ezzos were very dogmatic about their emphasis on the marriage relationship being the priority. I believe we even personally fell prey to a little self-righteous selfishness regarding our children "infringing" on our time together. I think that young parents need to understand that there will be self-sacrifice involved in parenting and that the Ezzos did not present a biblically balanced message on this topic.
The other issues I had with the Ezzos had to do with their infant/toddler classes (I won't go into all that here), and their class to teach parents how to handle sex education (basically, to avoid discussing human reproduction as much as possible in order to not incite lust in their children, to not use specific terms for body parts, to use an asexual flower as an example of reproduction, to not let your daughters play boyfriend/girlfriend with Barbie dolls, and to not even give "details" to an adult child on the eve of their wedding - let them find out for themselves).
EDITED TO ADD: There are a lot of other parenting materials out there that are less dogmatic, and authored by people who a professional background in child development, etc. The Ezzos do not have a professional background in this area, even though they are self-proclaimed parenting experts.
< Message edited by stateofgrace -- 9/18/2008 1:45:20 PM >
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RE: Growing Kids God's Way - 9/19/2008 12:58:27 PM
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March7
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We used the infant and toddler material as simple helps and basic guidelines (not point-by-point rules) with both our children (now 13 and 16). We did go through a GKGW class while expecting our second...it was interesting and genuinely helpful but a bit too dogmatic for me. I feel the infant guidelines particularly helped us at a time when I had no clue what to do...with feeding routines and such which really did truly help me help my infants to sleep well and be happy little babies. However, I did take exception with some aspects of the Ezzos' teachings that I found, hm, a bit legalistic, I guess. So, I found that with my firstborn I tended to be too rigid with his schedule and such; I kept my second on an infant routine but in a more relaxed, easy-going manner, which turned out better than the first time around. (Unfortunately, I don't remember the details. Sorry.) In any case, my firstborn slept through the night at 8 weeks, while my second did at 4 weeks. My husband and I really appreciated the help we received from the infant and toddler materials, though we molded the toddler guidelines to fit our own family and such (i.e., using this bit of Ezzo advice but not that and framing it to our children's personalities and our own prayerful sense of God's guidance). What I gleaned from the Ezzos' materials was a desire to train my children's hearts (not just their behavior) that they would honor others out of a love for God (so then, for example, not touch the ceramic figures on the older lady's coffee table, not run around the older folks at church, and so on). The materials helped shape our understanding of WHY we wanted to train our kiddoes in Christ and HOW...and that led us to be able to glean help from many different sources (by the end of the toddler years we were barely using GKGW but instead many different parenting resources...like even older friends and family...as we still do in the teen years). While they were very helpful to us, we did find GKGW materials tended to forget to add grace into the picture. Even though the reading seemed to mean to encourage grace and mercy, the end product seemed to miss those essential items of parenting. Somehow it came across as rigid and legalistic, and at the time we saw many of our friends tending to be rather harsh with their little ones in the implementation of the the GKGW principles. However, like my husband and I did, many of those friends eventually noticed this and sought other godly parenting helps to supplement, complement, and smooth out what they'd learned from the Ezzos' writings. (And, I agree with StateOfGrace that back fifteen years ago there seemed to us to be some not-as-biblical-as-intended principles and applications being taught in the materials, so I agree with the cautions she mentioned.)
Blessings... May the Lord richly fill your day in Christ!
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RE: Growing Kids God's Way - 9/19/2008 6:26:00 PM
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csl7037
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Just like any parenting advice or "experts", I think you have to take it with a grain of salt. Get from it what you can and let go of the stuff that doesn't sit right with your spirit or just your own temperament as a parent.
The book "Babywise" saved me when my kids were infants! I'm a huge advocate for scheduling and sleep routines. It's so important to teach a baby to fall asleep and sleep at the right times and get enough sleep to keep their little brains functioning and growing properly.
We also did the GKGW videos with a small group we were in. Some of it we all just kinda thought "yea, OK, don't see that happening" but we did get something out of it. I'm glad to hear it's updated because by the end of that video series, we were all just about climbing the walls!
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RE: Growing Kids God's Way - 9/19/2008 6:45:29 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
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I just have to say that the AAP(American Academy of Pediatrics) has issues statements against Babywise after many infants were found to be severely dehydrated from the "scheduling" that Ezzo promotes.
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RE: Growing Kids God's Way - 9/19/2008 7:46:41 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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I have a friend who has 4 children..(well, I've got plenty of friends with 4 children, but they're not really relevant to this post).....
She told me that for her first child (a very skinny boy)....
she tried to follow the Ezzos....
her son almost died....
by the grace of God he didn't.....
and that is all I have to say about the Ezzos.
Nope take it back...one more thing to say...
but this one is kind of funny....
I have a friend whose husband has two sisters (well I have a lot of friends whose husbands have two sisters, but they are not relevant to this post), and both of his sisters were already married with children when my friend and her husband were dating. The sisters were both heavily into the Ezzos. My friend didn't want to do the Ezzos, but was afraid she would have to if she married into that family, and it was a great worry to her. She finally, one day, after they were engaged finally mustered up all the courage she had, and told her fiance that if they were blessed with children she had no intention of using the Ezzos, her (then) fiance' (now husband) said THANK GOODNESS!!!!!!!!!!!! 
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RE: Growing Kids God's Way - 9/19/2008 8:43:24 PM
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macokjc
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I greatly enjoyed the book Babywise and all 4 of my kids weighed 18 lbs by the time they were 5-6 months. I have at least 30 friends who have used it - whose kids have all slept through the night early, and have never had issues. Their are also reports of babies being grossly over-fed and even dying from too much water/formula - but I wouldn't swear off demand-feeding if that's what works for you...............
I do find it greatly interesting to read this thread and the anti-parenting one and then see other posts of troubled children, rebellious teenagers, exhausted parents, upset homeschoolers coming from several of the same posters. Just a thought...
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RE: Growing Kids God's Way - 9/19/2008 9:32:20 PM
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Sideways
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The only issue I've ever heard of with over feeding a baby was giving a very young infant rice cereal several times a day. It's impossible to overfeed a baby with breastmilk, and I'm not even sure it's possible on regular formula.
Starvation or dehydration for "parent scheduled" feeding is far more likely then overfeeding by breast milk or formula feeding by demand.
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RE: Growing Kids God's Way - 9/20/2008 7:42:37 AM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
Oh, wow. Based off of Ryanne's post I did a little research. Babywise tells parents to phase out nighttime feedings by 8 weeks of age, expecting the infant to sleep 7-8 hours at a stretch, and by 3 months of age the child should sleep 9-11 hours straight. Some babies will do that, but most will not. That's just crazy.
This topic always gets ugly. I think it's because people are looking for a magic formula and pick up a book like this and check their common sense and judgement at the door. I "followed" Babywise. I said earlier it saved me when my kids were infants! And I remember my goal being 6 hours straight and that was my criteria for "through the night". My dd hit that around 8 or 9 weeks; I remember ds being closer to 10 or 11 and I thought I'd lose my mind if I didn't get some sleep!!! This book/system and any other are tools, they're not gospel (even if they try to sound like they are or the person teaching the class teaches it that way).
My kids are great sleepers to this day. That's one thing I really think we did right - I hold onto that on the days when I feel like we're doing everything else wrong, LOL! Thanks to that book and the advice of a few friends, my kids learned early to lie down and fall asleep on their own and they learned the difference between naps and night. I would have completely lost my mind if I had a baby up all night for months on end like so many moms do. That's just not good for mom or baby!
You take what you need and what works and use whatever tools you can get your hands on. There's not going to be one book with all the perfect answers for every little parenting issue or question. You can find what you need in the Bible but, for good reason, God even leaves a lot that you're supposed to figure out on your own.
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RE: Growing Kids God's Way - 9/20/2008 9:23:05 AM
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Homegrownkids
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Wow!! I can't believe anyone would follow anything to the letter unless it was God's Holy Word!! I saw their tapes... the only thing I really got out of it was just a couple of things. Which I thought were really good.... but like I said earlier, throw out the stuff that doesn't seem right to you. Everyone's parenting is a little different. I would think people would have more common sense to totally pattern after another man's parenting! I have read several excellent parenting books besides the Ezzo's. But to follow them by the letter so that your child gets sick and is about to die is ridiculous! Someone needs help.
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God heals!
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RE: Growing Kids God's Way - 9/20/2008 9:37:04 AM
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macokjc
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Sorry - I meant the spank or not spank thread.
I also have done studies on that book - and in almost all cases, there were other problems that contributed to the child's illness. I'm not going to get into it on here - because I've been around this site to know how people feel. But for those that used this book or are considering using it - I will tell you that the opinions on this site do not reflect the majority of parents out there.
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RE: Growing Kids God's Way - 9/20/2008 3:23:07 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
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quote:
Oh, wow. Based off of Ryanne's post I did a little research. Babywise tells parents to phase out nighttime feedings by 8 weeks of age, expecting the infant to sleep 7-8 hours at a stretch, and by 3 months of age the child should sleep 9-11 hours straight. Some babies will do that, but most will not. That's just crazy.
Um. I agree. I don't think physiologically most babies are designed to do that naturally, and many breastfeeding relationships wouldn't survive that regimen. 
My kids never consistently slept through the night until the middle of their second year of life (14-20 months). Once they pass that though, they are *excellent* sleepers. Even my one who had night terrors always stayed in his bed and would often fall asleep on his own before I even made it into the room to comfort him.
My kids were also fed on demand as nurslings and none of them has "food issues", or is greedy, or demanding, or overeats. In fact, they regulate their appetite on their own much better than I have ever done.
I am big on training children even at a young age. I'm big on parental authority. I have always been leary of TKGW, though, because of the rigidness. I believe children *need* training, guidance, and discipline. I also believe children have different needs than adults physically and I know for certain that mine would not have thrived (thriven?  ) on a 3-4 hour feeding schedule or a forced 9 hour night.
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RE: Growing Kids God's Way - 9/20/2008 6:43:01 PM
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macokjc
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quote:
I know for certain that mine would not have thrived (thriven? ) on a 3-4 hour feeding schedule or a forced 9 hour night.
It's not a forced 9 hour night. It's a gradual moving back the bed-time until they reach the point that you want them to be. If a child sleeps for 9 hours on their own- how is it forced. There is a HUGE difference between waking out of habit and waking out of hunger.
Back to the Ezzo's and the original poster - You should probably just do the study, gain what you want, and then you decide for yourselves.
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RE: Growing Kids God's Way - 9/20/2008 6:58:14 PM
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bzirk
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I never followed Babywise, but I know people who did and it worked and people who did and it didn't work.
Back to GKGW.
About ten years ago my husband was asked to have this taught at our church. It had been taught before he became pastor and a couple wanted to bring it back. So my husband watched it and did the workbooks, and I did it with him. My husband thought it was not beneficial and the study was never done.
I was surfing the web not too long after we went through the study, and I ran across this article linked below. I found it to be a pretty accurate assessment of what we found about the Ezzo's teachings and about the aftermath of such things as GKGW.
http://www.equip.org/atf/cf/%7B9C4EE03A-F988-4091-84BD-F8E70A3B0215%7D/DG233.pdf
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may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Growing Kids God's Way - 9/20/2008 7:19:56 PM
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crankius
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I knew of some parents who were doing the Growing Kids God's Way program, and what I saw made me a bit leery of doing the entire program. Just the title alone threw me--growing kids God's way? As if there is only one way to grow kids God's way?
But, I did want to know some parenting tips for putting my babies on a routine, so I read the Babywise books which are supposed to be the secularized simplified version of Growing Kids God's Way.
I got what I wanted, and was happy to skip the Ezzo Theology of it all.
While certainly Scripture does speak to parenting, it says little about how to care for infants, and anyone who could build an entire parenting program from those few Scriptures probably had to invent quite a bit of knowledge from just a few words.
My husband said the Growing Kids God's Way was too "Borg-like".
(BTW, I used routines with my babies, and I bf, and they actually did sleep through the night starting during the seventh week. Worked well for us, but I didn't follow the Ezzo plan verbatim.)
I liked the article you linked, Bzirk.
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Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
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