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RE: The Prophecy Club - 9/19/2008 11:44:02 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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I do not believe that anyone can remain 'neutral' with regards to these so-called prophets or that it is safe to take a 'wait and see attitude.' Oh, I can make fun of this insanity with the best of them ... BTW non- 'Christians' have no end of mirth with this stuff....but the truth is that we are entering, and indeed, a good ways into, an age of apostasy where anything goes and the more it 'tickles' the ears of the hearer, the more it appeals to the deceived and the ignorant. God is not mocked. And yet, these 'prophets' do mock and contrive to mock and are nothing more than spiritual harlots and pimps.
They are liars and encourage each other in their lies. They are deceived and deceive others.
So then, what is a prophet? Let’s just mention one prophet. One that is seldom thought of or mentioned as a prophet, but is, nonetheless, a prophet.
Jesus. Most people think of Jesus as their Savior or the Messiah. It is a though the godly office of prophet has completely gone over the heads of those who delight in referring to themselves as prophets. If you knew that Jesus was the greatest prophet who ever lived, would you still think the insanity that passes for prophecy today was really godly? Knowing the life that Jesus lived and the ultimate sacrifice he gave, does the prophecy or prophet of today live up to that?
Deut. 18: 15 “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him”
Not Jesus? No?
Witness Stephen. He was before the high priest. Probably not a good time to lie. Acts 7: 37
“This is that Moses who told the Israelites, ‘God will send you a prophet like me from your own people.’
Peter also quoted this verse when referring to the Messiah.
Acts 3:22 “ For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you.’
Luke 24 This is the passage where Jesus conversed with two of the disciples after His resurrection Jesus asks them what they are discussing and they told him they were discussing Jesus of Nazareth and what had happened in Jerusalem...referring to the crucifixion.
Luke 24:19 “What things?’ He asked. About Jesus of Nazareth, they replied. He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people.”
If someone cares to study the above references, you will find that Moses gave the prophecy concerning Jesus and yet Moses is referred to as the greatest prophet in the entire Bible. Upon Moses death:
“Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face..” Deut. 34:10
V12. “For no one has ever shown the mighty power or performed the awesome deeds that Moses did in the sight of all Israel.” (not to mention Egypt and Pharaoh...my words)
And yet Moses declared that this prophet God would raise up, would be like him. This is not the place for in depth Bible study re the above.....but if we take only Jesus as an example of a prophet.....where does that leave the ‘Prophecy Club” or Mr Hinn or Rod Parsley or Mr. Bentley? Or any of the others?
Prophecy is serious business...God is the one who chooses who shall be a prophet. We do not make them or endow them or even put our stamp of approval on them.
Plenty more where that came from and it’s called the Word of God. The Bible. Old and New Testaments. Read for yourself.....study it....it is the only truth out there.
< Message edited by solarflare -- 9/19/2008 1:52:53 PM >
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RE: The Prophecy Club - 9/19/2008 5:28:23 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2789
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
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quote:
Yes I too lump Parsley in this bunch. Even though they don't conspire together to dupe their congregations, they all have one thing in common, False teaching.
One more thing: riches from the fools who buy into their false teachings
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RE: The Prophecy Club - 9/19/2008 5:38:16 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
Yes I too lump Parsley in this bunch. Even though they don't conspire together to dupe their congregations, they all have one thing in common, False teaching.
One more thing: riches from the fools who buy into their false teachings
collie fan: I don't think your use of the word 'fools' here is appropriate.
Jesus had stern warnings for those who called their brothers fools. It is very appropriate to point out the error and deception, but name calling? Especially when Jesus even pointed out the use of that word? Could we please not do that?
Sincerely,
Solarflare
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RE: The Prophecy Club - 9/20/2008 11:40:46 AM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 460
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: offline
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FurGodWurLivin,
Why in the world would you disagree with:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
100% Accuracy. There is no need to practice. God gives you are prophecy and you say it. There is no fortune telling like what you see go on tv.
Like Earthless said there is no wiggle with the 100% thing.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: The Prophecy Club - 9/20/2008 12:21:57 PM
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dwtramm
Posts: 282
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
The Prophecy Club, if it's the one I'm thinking of has had
numerous teachers, preachers concerning prophecy.
Usually end times.
A person can pick up a point here and there, {if they are
grounded in the Word} but for the most part, it's just
marketing their ideologies in book and tape forms.
I have several DVD's that were shot at the Prophecy Club.
I didn't learn from the DVD's, I learned digging to see if
what they said were true or not.
And like eartless said, all these spider webs are inter-connected.
I used to listen to the Prophecy club. There accuracy rate is about on par with Benny Hinn's.
They got Y2K wrong, and the follow the prophecies of Demitri Dunamen (I might have spelt that wrong) as it is equal to Scripture.
He prophesied an attack by Russia on America. I believe he thought it would occur sometime in the 80's, but I might be mistaken on that.
He is dead now. The Prophecy Club leaves out his timelines and the last time I listened was still expecting this attack to occur.
I haven't listened in about 5 years or so, so they may have changed on some of that.
They also were having at one time big events where they would impart the Prophecy anointing (Much like Rod Parsley does, so yes, he is relevant). The two people doing it had a falling out, because one of them was also imparting the anointing to never sin.
I'm sure all of this has been cleaned up from their history. False prophets have a way of trying to do that.
I believe that they also have their own church and tried to start a fellowship of churches, don't know how the fellowship has done since I've quit following them.
I have a couple of their videos as well. One KJV only with Gail Riplinger and the other with The archeologist Wyatt. He claimed to fine everything from Noah's ark to the ark of the covenant. It was actually his video that made me decide to quit following them. He actually said in that video that Tyrannsaurs Rex was not a dinosaur, but actually a giant kangaroo! 
That's all I can remember about them.
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RE: The Prophecy Club - 9/20/2008 4:52:01 PM
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themoodyexperience
Posts: 525
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Tuscumbia, Alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
FurGodWurLivin,
Why in the world would you disagree with:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
100% Accuracy. There is no need to practice. God gives you are prophecy and you say it. There is no fortune telling like what you see go on tv.
Like Earthless said there is no wiggle with the 100% thing.
God says His word will not return unto him void. That ensures 100% accuracy.
_____________________________
Of course thieves hate watch-dogs, and love darkness. It is time that somebody should spring his rattle, and call attention to the way in which God is being robbed of his glory, and man of his hope.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: The Prophecy Club - 9/20/2008 9:18:08 PM
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Rick4Him
Posts: 102
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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Solar said:
"I am angry at this garbage. Can you tell? Yes, it is laughable. But I find it degrading to myself and other Christians. This is not what Chrisitianity is about. These people are LUNATICS. Certifiable. And they are raking it in..........."
And what is worse is they are peddling this false stuff to unsuspecting Christians in third world countries. These very very poor peolpe are hanging on the words of the false prophets in hopes of a prosperity blessing or annointing. How in the world can they walk away from these meetings asking these very poor ones to give (plant a seed). John Piper has a great sermon on this but I don't have the link. It maybe on his website for he keeps all his past sermons and lectures.
Rick
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RE: The Prophecy Club - 9/21/2008 5:46:13 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 954
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
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quote:
To the poster who asked about Benny Hinn, my point was exactly what earthless replied. He is absolutely false in his prophetic claims. Well, as I said, I'm pretty much uninterested in what you specifically meant by it. But thanks for the explanation anyway, I guess. Think what you like about Benny Hinn. I have no interest in "debating" his ministry/ministry style. There's a OneStop for that anyway.quote:
I'm an "eye witness" that saw and heard Parsley tell how they
call each other on the phone to see "what the Lord is telling each of them."
That's why we hear them saying the same things. Not because God is telling
each of them the same thing, but because they "network" each other.
So you indict a man............ for making a phone call? Remind me to throw my cell phone off the nearest skyscraper sometime...quote:
The Holy spirit will be encouraged to flow ....yes, we'll let him out of his box so he can f l o w........didn't know He was liquid? Didn't know He needed our permission........you learn so much on these sites.
Both beginner and experienced believer will be carefully guided.....by who and what? .....to stretch their spiritual wings to fly to heights never attained before.....are parachutes provided ? Will they still need to book a flight for vacations or will they now be able to translate themselves?
We are quite sure you have not experienced this regardless of your 'level' in the Lord.....excuse me? oh I have experienced it. I stepped in it by accident when I went out to feed the horses the other day. You're point being what......... to mock another man's servant? Aside from the fact that this site you quoted is using prototypical neo-Charismatic euphemisms for excercising ministerial gifts of the spirit that would make no sense of any kind to your typical evangelical anyway, I see zilch as far as meaningful content in your post.quote:
These people all need swirlies.
I am angry at this garbage. Can you tell? Yes, it is laughable. But I find it degrading to myself and other Christians. This is not what Chrisitianity is about. These people are LUNATICS. Certifiable. And they are raking it in........... Nice to know your "Christian Charity" is up to snuff... Turn the other cheek, and all that lot...quote:
And to add insult to injury.. there are self-professing Christians here who say you're bad for even talking about and or belittle your attempts of discussing these things. Thank you, earthless... as far as I can remember, this is the first time I have been called an injurer and insulter. As I CONTINUE to tell you, I see a difference between discussing doctrine and discussing people. Were we doing the former, I would take no issue. At this point, we have down-graded to juvenile squabbling anyway... so I'm not really surprised to see pettiness.quote:
I do not believe that anyone can remain 'neutral' with regards to these so-called prophets or that it is safe to take a 'wait and see attitude.' I think you'd be surprised. I can remain neutral with the best of 'em.quote:
BTW non- 'Christians' have no end of mirth with this stuff.... Acts 2... that's all I gotta say.quote:
but the truth is that we are entering, and indeed, a good ways into, an age of apostasy where anything goes and the more it 'tickles' the ears of the hearer, the more it appeals to the deceived and the ignorant. This the first bit of truth that I feel no hesitancy in agreeing with. Not only are we in an age of raging apostasy both inside and outside the church, but this fun little time period is prophesied about over and over in the Bible. Need an example? 2 Thessalonians 2. If anyone thought they were going to be raptured before now, you have my deepest apologies.quote:
One that is seldom thought of or mentioned as a prophet, but is, nonetheless, a prophet. Seldom by whom, pray tell? Most of the people you have already maligned would agree with this exact statement that Jesus is the greatest prophet to have ever lived.quote:
It is a though the godly office of prophet has completely gone over the heads of those who delight in referring to themselves as prophets. If you knew that Jesus was the greatest prophet who ever lived, would you still think the insanity that passes for prophecy today was really godly? Knowing the life that Jesus lived and the ultimate sacrifice he gave, does the prophecy or prophet of today live up to that? (A) If we all meditated on Jesus more, much of our petty squabbling and self eggrandizement would seem very lowly indeed.
(B) "I thought the office of a prophet ceased to be!" [/end sarcasm]
(C) You want to know what's really crazy? Most of the church in the USA goes to church each week, gets preached at for an hour and goes home to live the exact same way as before they went. You want to know what's even crazier than that? There are only a handful of places that a sick person can go to and recieve substantial hope of a recovery... of that handful, only a fraction of a percent of them are churches. Consider this for a while. Rather than bemoan another appearance of a "false prophet", how about getting into the prayer closet and praying for God to move in the church again?quote:
And yet Moses declared that this prophet God would raise up, would be like him. This is not the place for in depth Bible study re the above.....but if we take only Jesus as an example of a prophet.....where does that leave the ‘Prophecy Club” or Mr Hinn or Rod Parsley or Mr. Bentley? Or any of the others? Allow me to say that your hermaneutic is lousy. There were a slew of prophets between Moses and Jesus. Only one fit the description of Deuteronomy 18. That means that there are "lesser prophets". So your example does nothing but villify whomever you aim it at.
Here is another fun little tidbit to toss into the mix... Moses said that Jesus would be "a prophet like me." The possible field of inferences are astonishing. And yet, using the method you have given for defining a prophet, most of those inferences are heretical. Connection, perhaps?quote:
Why in the world would you disagree with:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
100% Accuracy. There is no need to practice. God gives you are prophecy and you say it. There is no fortune telling like what you see go on tv.
Like Earthless said there is no wiggle with the 100% thing. Why? We have a partial record of the life of the Prophets. If you read the books of Prophecy assuming that this is all they ever said as a Prophet, then the above assumption is quite plausible. However, we know from Samuel that there is at least a little bit of a learning curve. Given that there is no structure in the American church to teach prophecy, we are left to wander that learning curve on our own. Just like you cannot read a biography and know everything there is to know about a person, we cannot read the books of the prophets and assume that that is all they said or did that was "prophecy".
Also, 1 Corinthians 14 kind of puts the "100% accuracy or nothing" argument to rest... different topic, most likely.quote:
God says His word will not return unto him void. That ensures 100% accuracy. TME... that is assuming that everything said by the speaker was the exact word of God. A rather hefty assumption to make, IMO.
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: The Prophecy Club - 9/21/2008 11:19:00 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6220
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: online
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Adam,
I understand why you don't like Christians naming names, it hits too close to home. But I will not stop to do so because not only is it biblical, it is the duty and responsibility of a self-professing Christians when said individuals are causing so much harm and at times even death.
You can come here every day at 2:00 AM and keep defending them (because that is what it is) and you can keep trying your best to deflect and distract the real issues at hand. No problem. But do know that many of us will continue to do what it is right, proper, and expected.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: The Prophecy Club - 9/22/2008 1:17:42 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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quote:
You're point being what......... to mock another man's servant? Aside from the fact that this site you quoted is using prototypical neo-Charismatic euphemisms for excercising ministerial gifts of the spirit that would make no sense of any kind to your typical evangelical anyway, I see zilch as far as meaningful content in your post.
Well, I have a little more time now. Have you participated in these courses on how to use the Holy Spirit? Why are you so offended? The mocking is being done by the weird people who use the terms they do to such an extent that even you call them prototypical neo-Charismatic euphemisms .... . Ministerial gifts of the spirit? No. Made up bizarre hype that flows from their over-taxed imaginations, but then one would expect a little burnout with all that flying around in the oxygen deprived regions where they hang out.
Now let's address your personal rant directed at me. I am a person who deals with facts. I practically count my own fingers to make sure I still have 10 when I get up in the morning.  Fact: you address me as a typical evangelical and anounce to the world that I can make no sense of gifts of the spirit. Fact: you are wrong. I exercise gifts of the Spirit on a regular basis....I know I exercised discernment when I refuted what I saw on that website.
I detect (not discernment, just my experience) distain for Evangelicals in your rhetoric......my, I would rather be one of them.......which I am not.......then one of those bizarre creatures frothing fake prophecies and doing so while extending their sweating palms for money. I find it just really typical that you accuse me of mocking and then proceed to do that very thing yourself. You must have deep lines on your face from all this concern about the false prophets. They really don't care what we say.....as long as they have a list of ignorant people signing up for their courses and sending in money. They really don't care. And that, upsets God very much. I don't like it either.
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RE: The Prophecy Club - 9/22/2008 1:59:24 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 954
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
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quote:
I understand why you don't like Christians naming names, it hits too close to home. I understand you feel that way, and I also understand that no matter how many times I tell you that it is not a personal offense you are going to think that way anyway. However, that doesn't negate the points that I have already made about the practice in other threads.quote:
But I will not stop to do so because not only is it biblical, it is the duty and responsibility of a self-professing Christians when said individuals are causing so much harm and at times even death.
Translation: You have no interest in anything I have said, so I'm wasting my breath. That's alright... I figured as much anyway. It just goes to show that doctrinal discussion is pretty much useless.quote:
You can come here every day at 2:00 AM and keep defending them (because that is what it is) Meaning what...? That I will go to Hell for defending the character of someone who is not here to defend themselves? If you wish to have a discussion about doctrine, you will find me more than amiable. It is the wholesale detraction of individuals that raises my ire.quote:
and you can keep trying your best to deflect and distract the real issues at hand. Pardon me for distracting the executioner with facts of the case...
Once again, the ignoble names come out. Why? Because you seem to have run out of valid points to make. So far you have insisted that I am an injurer, insulter, and distractor. As I said, if I was to try and make these points elsewhere it would be hounded as harrasment. Congratulations... you can make a relatively typical evangelical argument.quote:
But do know that many of us will continue to do what it is right, proper, and expected. And this is supposed to be a wound to my pride? Considering that pride is a sin, I find it comical that someone who says they are a church leader continually attempts to provoke it. Feel free to strike the other side some time, sir.quote:
Uh.........that site is what this thread is about. That, is why I quoted from it. Are you lost? Have you just landed? I am so thrilled to have you on my case (A) I am not "on your case". If I were, every single individual on here would know it.
(B) Your "arguments" come across as little more than juvenile mocking. Not only is it not appreciated, it is very poor form.quote:
you absolutely totally remind me of:
Don Quixote
Windmills mean anything to you? And I'm the deflector/distractor? Once again, zero on the substance meter.quote:
Have you participated in these courses on how to use the Holy Spirit? No, I have not participated in the above mentioned courses.quote:
Why are you so offended? The offense is imaginary, sir.quote:
The mocking is being done by the weird people who use the terms they do to such an extent that even you call them prototypical neo-Charismatic euphemisms .... Ahem... using a quote and then providing commentary with the specific goal to make another person look "wacky", "crazy", or "deluded" is mocking. What else would you call it?quote:
Ministerial gifts of the spirit? No. Made up bizarre hype that flows from their over-taxed imaginations, but then one would expect a little burnout with all that flying around in the oxygen deprived regions where they hang out. Which is a perfect example of what I already alluded to. A misunderstanding of the idiom of the speaker. So there are only two choices... either you know what the idioms mean and are choosing to ignore them to purposefully make the speaker look idiotic (which is dishonest), or you honestly don't know what the idioms mean (which doesn't deserve criticism).quote:
Now let's address your personal rant directed at me. You have a very broad definition of a "rant", sir. Considering that the only real extended remarks of mine that followed something you said was not directed "at" you, but to you. I was hoping that you would read it and consider where I was coming from. Was that expecting too much?quote:
I am a person who deals with facts. Feel free to think so... What about faith?quote:
Fact: you address me as a typical evangelical and anounce to the world that I can make no sense of gifts of the spirit. Fact: I never "anounced" to the world that you "can make no sense of gifts of the spirit". Fact: what I said was that you were misunderstanding euphemisms for the ministerial gifts of the Spirit. There is a sharp distinction between the two. One is a person attack on your intelligence, and the other is noting a relatively common mistake.quote:
Fact: you are wrong. Fact: if you are arguing against what you think I'm saying instead of what I'm actually saying you are never going to be wrong. Clever tactic, but highly unsatisfactory for stable communication.quote:
I detect (not discernment, just my experience) distain for Evangelicals in your rhetoric... Your detection system is giving you a false positive. There is such a deep rift between Evangelicals and Charismatics/Pentecostals that they might as well be speaking different languages. Because of this rift, your "typical evangelical" and your "typical charismatic" can use the same word two different ways and fail to communicate. Both thinks they understand what the other is saying, but neither actually does. I am not showing disdain for evangelicalism... I am showing disdain for rifts in the Body of Christ. Yes, I cannot stand denominationalism. Neither could Paul, for that matter.quote:
I find it just really typical that you accuse me of mocking and then proceed to do that very thing yourself. I did not mock you. I make specific, conscious effort to avoid that very thing because it is just as distasteful to me as I know how to make it. Not only is it poor discussion form, it is just not respectful.quote:
You must have deep lines on your face from all this concern about the false prophets. At 21? Not likely.quote:
They really don't care what we say But God does, and that is my entire point. Why did Jesus feel a need to tell the disciples to be wise as serpents but harmless as doves?
Why do I continue to waste my breath........quote:
They really don't care what we say.....as long as they have a list of ignorant people signing up for their courses and sending in money. They really don't care. And that, upsets God very much. I don't like it either. It seems that you have an underlying judgement that these individuals know exactly how wrong they are and are nothing more than liars trying to eek their way into your pocketbook. Have you considered that they might just be wrong, sir?
Adam
< Message edited by FurGodWurLivin -- 9/22/2008 7:04:50 PM >
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: The Prophecy Club - 9/22/2008 2:05:34 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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And now on to the meat of the matter.
quote:
I do not believe that anyone can remain 'neutral' with regards to these so-called prophets or that it is safe to take a 'wait and see attitude.'I think you'd be surprised. I can remain neutral with the best of 'em.quote: You do not even understand what I have written here. You are not neutral. Your post suggests the opposite. You have chosen a side. We are not on the same side.
BTW non- 'Christians' have no end of mirth with this stuff....Acts 2... that's all I gotta say.quote: I will pour out my Spirit upon all people is true. I am one of those people. Acts 2 is not a deregulatory consortium allowing for the miasma of bizarre manifestations and prophecies that never come true, that Stephen thought to put forth prior to his death. And actually, I find it offensive that you think it so.
but the truth is that we are entering, and indeed, a good ways into, an age of apostasy where anything goes and the more it 'tickles' the ears of the hearer, the more it appeals to the deceived and the ignorant.This the first bit of truth that I feel no hesitancy in agreeing with. Not only are we in an age of raging apostasy both inside and outside the church, but this fun little time period is prophesied about over and over in the Bible. Need an example? 2 Thessalonians 2. If anyone thought they were going to be raptured before now, you have my deepest apologies.quote: That's not true. You are making fun. You constantly do what you say others do. Can you not just write something without this constant sarcastic pale showing through your words like the conscience of a man with a secret too heavy for him to bear?
One that is seldom thought of or mentioned as a prophet, but is, nonetheless, a prophet. Seldom by whom, pray tell? Most of the people you have already maligned would agree with this exact statement that Jesus is the greatest prophet to have ever lived.quote: Really? Well then they need to start acting like it because actions speak louder than words. Jesus had no place to lay his head .... where does Benny Hinn put his coiffed extravaganza every night? Where do these people from the Prophecy Club lay down their little noggins? Do you really think that Jesus intended for these charlatans to get rich on His blood?
It is a though the godly office of prophet has completely gone over the heads of those who delight in referring to themselves as prophets. If you knew that Jesus was the greatest prophet who ever lived, would you still think the insanity that passes for prophecy today was really godly? Knowing the life that Jesus lived and the ultimate sacrifice he gave, does the prophecy or prophet of today live up to that?(A) If we all meditated on Jesus more, much of our petty squabbling and self eggrandizement would seem very lowly indeed. Oh please. Don't patronize me.
(B) "I thought the office of a prophet ceased to be!" [/end sarcasm]
Office of a prophet? I believe prophecy exists....but not the way it is represented by most people who call themselves prophets.
Most so-called prophets today would best be described as wanna be fortune tellers. God has not told them to say what they say. He has not called them and they do not speak for Him.
(C) You want to know what's really crazy? Most of the church in the USA goes to church each week, gets preached at for an hour and goes home to live the exact same way as before they went. You want to know what's even crazier than that? There are only a handful of places that a sick person can go to and recieve substantial hope of a recovery... of that handful, only a fraction of a percent of them are churches. Consider this for a while. Rather than bemoan another appearance of a "false prophet", how about getting into the prayer closet and praying for God to move in the church again?quote: Ignorance is bliss eh? I bet you would like me in a closet.....sorry.....Now, it is time, and not just for me, but for everyone who knows the truth, to say what is not true. God may not move in the church again. I am not sure many of them would even know Him if He did...
And yet Moses declared that this prophet God would raise up, would be like him. This is not the place for in depth Bible study re the above.....but if we take only Jesus as an example of a prophet.....where does that leave the ‘Prophecy Club” or Mr Hinn or Rod Parsley or Mr. Bentley? Or any of the others? Allow me to say that your hermaneutic is lousy. There were a slew of prophets between Moses and Jesus. Only one fit the description of Deuteronomy 18. That means that there are "lesser prophets". So your example does nothing but villify whomever you aim it at. If you did not have on those blinders of prejudice against any who write in this forum and do not agree with you, you would see I said no such thing. How is it, that drawing attention to Jesus as the greatest prophet who ever lived....and still lives..villifies anyone? I was not using Jesus as an example, He is the ONLY example and in light of Him, who is anyone else? Did you think I do not know there were other prophets after Moses? None of them said: Before Abraham was, I am.
You seem as offended and astonished that I would mention Jesus as a prophet, as did the religious leaders of Jesus day (on earth) when he made the above statement. I mean, what is the Bible about? God sending His Son, or human beings uttering prophetic words?
You constantly do exactly what you accuse others of doing....but you really do not see that, do you? Or, perhaps you think to write to me the way you percieve I have written....only God knows.........
As Isaiah put it when God spoke to him: Woe to me! I am ruined!
People who have had a real experience with God are not on TV bragging about it. And holding fake revivals. And offering courses on how to use the gifts. Shame on them all. God is Holy. They mock His holiness....worse then the world does. How do you think deception has come? Through the world? NO! WAKE UP....it has come through the church.
Here is another fun little tidbit to toss into the mix... Moses said that Jesus would be "a prophet like me." The possible field of inferences are astonishing. And yet, using the method you have given for defining a prophet, most of those inferences are heretical. Connection, perhaps? Only to you. I quoted Scripture. And I do understand you. I just find your glee at thinking you got me here is, well, childish.
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RE: The Prophecy Club - 9/22/2008 2:10:24 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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quote:
If I were, every single individual on here would know it.
You sure do have grandiose visions of yourself. I have read enough of your posts addressed to others to know that you get a hold of an idea or what you think another wrote, and shake it like a terrier with a rat. I really don't care to keep up a bantering discourse with you.....I like to be at peace with all men as much as possible......
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RE: The Prophecy Club - 9/22/2008 12:09:13 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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quote:
It seems that you have an underlying judgement that these individuals know exactly how wrong they are and are nothing more than liars trying to eek their way into your pocketbook. Have you considered that they might just be wrong, sir?
If they are absolutely totally ignorant of what Scripture has to say with regards to how to live your life as a follower of Christ, then yes, I guess they could be wrong. Otherwise, as Scripture indicates, they have no excuse and they know what they are doing. And these people in particular are trying to sell the Holy Spirit. ONLY God gives these gifts. They are not for sale.
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RE: The Prophecy Club - 9/22/2008 1:35:57 PM
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Rick4Him
Posts: 102
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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FurGod
quote:
Well, as I said, I'm pretty much uninterested in what you specifically meant by it. But thanks for the explanation anyway, I guess. Think what you like about Benny Hinn. I have no interest in "debating" his ministry/ministry style. There's a OneStop for that anyway.
If you are so uninterested why all the posts?
Rick
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RE: The Prophecy Club - 9/22/2008 2:02:06 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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quote:
highly unsatisfactory for stable communication.
Pretty much my take on conversing with you anyway. You have consistently twisted my words and denied saying what we both know you did say.
And, for the record, it is my impression that you don't really want to communicate so much as to deflate what it is you thought I was saying. I was not even addressing you..........I was really only writing about Jesus as a prophet and how Christians should consider Him as such when considering whether or not to believe those who call themselves the same.
If you took offense at that, I must have hit a note unintentionally.
quote:
Why do I continue to waste my breath........
I don't know. If I feel I am wasting my breath, I stop. Seriously.
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RE: The Prophecy Club - 9/22/2008 7:21:24 PM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 954
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
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quote:
I can remain neutral with the best of 'em.quote: You do not even understand what I have written here. You are not neutral. Your post suggests the opposite. You have chosen a side. We are not on the same side. The fact that we disagree means merely that we are not on the same side of a war. Switzerland, my friends.
It takes a lot more than "I told you so" to paint me into a corner, sir... In fact, I even offered criticism of this group in my first response. However, I have refused to go to the great lengths that some have to lable them as false prophets that are attempting to "fleece the flock". It is a highly unnecessary charge that I just don't need to lay.quote:
I will pour out my Spirit upon all people is true. I am one of those people. Acts 2 is not a deregulatory consortium allowing for the miasma of bizarre manifestations and prophecies that never come true, that Stephen thought to put forth prior to his death. And actually, I find it offensive that you think it so. (A) You missed my point. You said that non-christians are the ones making fun of groups such as "The Prophecy Club", and I mention Acts 2 because non-believers did the same thing. Being made fun of does not mean that a move of God is not genuine. Personally, I find it sad that you would think so. They said John the Baptist had a demon and that Jesus had sold His soul to the Devil... and we all know how wrong they were.quote:
That's not true. You are making fun. You constantly do what you say others do. Can you not just write something without this constant sarcastic pale showing through your words like the conscience of a man with a secret too heavy for him to bear? I'm not sure what secret you think I'm bearing...... but my above little levity that you mentioned was not aimed at you. I have known a good many Christians who believed that they would be raptured before the Great Apostacy of the church. To those people, I offer my sincerest apologies that they were incorrect.quote:
Really? Well then they need to start acting like it because actions speak louder than words. Jesus had no place to lay his head .... where does Benny Hinn put his coiffed extravaganza every night? Where do these people from the Prophecy Club lay down their little noggins? Do you really think that Jesus intended for these charlatans to get rich on His blood? Do you have a house and a bed? Do you have a job with a five figure income or better? Then the pot has called the kettle black, sir.
Back to real arguments... I don't personally buy the idea that these people are intentionally posing as prophets to purposefully decieve the church. I believe that they have incorrect doctrine and are potentially abusing their gifts. However, I'm also willing to give them the benefit of a doubt that they are merely mistaken and not diabolical. Feel free to disagree, but it isn't something that we can logically prove either way.quote:
Oh please. Don't patronize me. That was not patronization. That is reality. You mention that if we looked at who Jesus was we would see the ludicrosity that passes as prophecy... it is my charge that if we meditated on Jesus more, the overwhelming majority of craziness that passes for piety and doctrine would be obliterated. Perhaps we are confusing patronization and conviction... but I'm not going to say so because I don't know.quote:
Most so-called prophets today would best be described as wanna be fortune tellers. The same was true in the days of Elijah and Jeremiah. I guess I'm saying that if we believe the Biblical narrative, we shouldn't be shocked or surprised by stuff like this.quote:
God has not told them to say what they say. He has not called them and they do not speak for Him. That is a hefty charge. You cannot prove that God has not called someone or that God has not spoken to them. You can prove that their message is wrong, but all that proves is that they have made an error in delivering a message. Because we have no basis for judging the interior life of another human being, it is 100% impossible to prove 3/4 of the sentence I just quoted.quote:
Ignorance is bliss eh? I bet you would like me in a closet.....sorry..... Whatever... I gave up on "whack-a-mole" Christianity a long time ago.quote:
God may not move in the church again. Except that is Biblically impossible. Joel 2, Acts 2, John 14:12... Until these come to pass, we are still waiting for God to "once again shake the heavens and shake the earth" (Haggai 2).quote:
If you did not have on those blinders of prejudice against any who write in this forum and do not agree with you, you would see I said no such thing. Ahem, you hold Jesus as the only definition of a Prophet in your above commentary. We cannot "take only Jesus as an example of a prophet" because (A) He isn't the only prophet, and (B) if we take only Jesus as THE example of anything we are all in a lot of trouble. Lets thrust this the other way... Let's take only Jesus as the example of a preacher... where does that leave Chuck Swindoll, John Piper, John MacArthur, or a whole host of others? You see what I mean? In the light of Jesus absolutely everything is dingy, dirty, and far short of the glory of God. That is the awesomeness of God's free Grace that we refuse to extend to those that we don't even know.quote:
Did you think I do not know there were other prophets after Moses? No. I think that you know that there are other prophets after Moses (because basic Bible reading would tell you that), and that is precisely why your example to villify The Prophecy Club is extremely invalid. If we take only Jesus as an example of a prophet, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Elijah, Hosea, Joel, and many others are not prophets.quote:
You seem as offended and astonished that I would mention Jesus as a prophet, as did the religious leaders of Jesus day (on earth) when he made the above statement. I was shocked that you called Jesus a prophet? Then why did I agree with you when you said it? Or did you forget when I said, "Most of the people you have already maligned would agree with this exact statement that Jesus is the greatest prophet to have ever lived." Rather than attempting to put words in my mouth or infer my emotional structure, how about dealing with what I am saying?quote:
You constantly do exactly what you accuse others of doing....but you really do not see that, do you? Or, perhaps you think to write to me the way you percieve I have written....only God knows.........
As Isaiah put it when God spoke to him: Woe to me! I am ruined! ... ¿que?
Coherency will help this be a productive conversation...quote:
People who have had a real experience with God are not on TV bragging about it. And holding fake revivals. And offering courses on how to use the gifts. Shame on them all. God is Holy. They mock His holiness....worse then the world does. How do you think deception has come? Through the world? NO! WAKE UP....it has come through the church. Well...... Nice talking to you too, I guess...quote:
Only to you. I quoted Scripture. And I do understand you. I just find your glee at thinking you got me here is, well, childish. Yes you did... and you fit into you premade construct quite nicely. Based on the idea that Jesus is the only example of a prophet we are taking, when Moses says that God will raise up a Prophet like him (meaning that Moses was a prophet), we can make all kinds of inferences such as that Moses was a pre-incarnate Christ (which is heretical), that Jesus was the second coming of Moses (which is heretical), that Moses was fully God (which is heretical), or that Jesus was not (which is heretical). If Moses says "like me" it would be that Moses must also be like the person raised up. So, my argument still stands.quote:
You sure do have grandiose visions of yourself. Not really. I'm saying that if I was "on your case" as you asserted earlier, it would be so flamingly obvious that every individual in this thread would know it.quote:
I have read enough of your posts addressed to others to know that you get a hold of an idea or what you think another wrote, and shake it like a terrier with a rat. Thank you. My tenacity makes me "special". If your various ideas can't stand being shaken, either they are wrong or you can refrain from presenting them. Why do I continue to stick my neck out in the forums? Because I know there are people on here who are going to be just as tenacious as myself. If my idea holds up to the scrutiny, I'm a little bit more secure in my convictions.quote:
I really don't care to keep up a bantering discourse with you.....I like to be at peace with all men as much as possible...... That's your right... but...
"Mankind likes to go to war, it's in our fallen nature." -- John Reuben.quote:
If you are so uninterested why all the posts? Rick, my "I don't care" was made in specific reference to the "Benny Hinn story" comment. I don't particularly care what you meant by the euphemism, because I got the point. So the quote you pulled is not a blanket statement for the thread. Sorry to disappoint.quote:
Pretty much my take on conversing with you anyway. You have consistently twisted my words and denied saying what we both know you did say. I have not denied anything I have said, as yet... I have denied what you thought I was saying. Sorry to disappoint, but your ire is off-target.quote:
And, for the record, it is my impression that you don't really want to communicate so much as to deflate what it is you thought I was saying. Communication... transmission of an idea, viewpoint, or orders through any of several mediums. "Deflating" a point of view is communication. If done improperly, communication is not successful. If you take objection to anything I have quoted of you, feel free to voice it. However, I have taken your exact words (as they appear in the forums) and written specific responses to them. That is communication. The difference between communication and pontification is that on is adressed to someone and the other is into thin air.quote:
I was really only writing about Jesus as a prophet and how Christians should consider Him as such when considering whether or not to believe those who call themselves the same. Very true, sir. You were not adressing anyone in particular. You were interjecting into the air, I disagreed with something you said, and now we are where we are right now. Seems pretty logical to me.
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: The Prophecy Club - 9/23/2008 10:59:58 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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quote:
Ahem, you hold Jesus as the only definition of a Prophet in your above commentary.
You know, you are allowed to believe whatever you want to about anything you want to. I am not your conscience or your teacher. You are certainly also allowed to defend false prophets and wrong teaching while using all the big words you learned in school. You can write whatever you want to as well as long as the Admins think you are staying by the TOS.
However, what I am really past patience in seeing, is your twisting what I wrote so that you can harp about it. You either really don't understand, or you just need to vent and at the moment, I am your chosen ventee.
I absolutely never said that Jesus was the only definition of a prophet. You are saying that is what I said, but it is not what I said. I could go through your entire last post and 'correct' your loose interpretations of what I actually said, but that seems to be what you like to do. I have better things to do.
Frankly, I have had enough interchanges with you to know that I do not care to have any others. No one can exchange ideas with another or have a conversation with someone who constantly badgers, misunderstands, twists the meaning of what is said, and downright mocks and addresses the other person as though they were stupid. You may not mean to do this, but you do and I have had enough of it. Kindly refrain from addressing me any further. Your comments to me and/or advice are not welcome.
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RE: The Prophecy Club - 9/23/2008 9:41:08 PM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 954
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
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Solar, it is your right to refuse to listen to me and ask that I stop talking to you. As such, this is the last response you will hear from me addressed to you. If I have left too strong an ardour, feel free to ignore me at any time. Here, in context, is the comment that led to our last interchange... quote:
And yet Moses declared that this prophet God would raise up, would be like him. This is not the place for in depth Bible study re the above.....but if we take only Jesus as an example of a prophet.....where does that leave the ‘Prophecy Club” or Mr Hinn or Rod Parsley or Mr. Bentley? Or any of the others?
Now you either fully believe that remark (which I was objecting to the suggestion of), or your entire argument in support of your point is pointless. If you are going to argue, you had better be able to support your position.
That being said, I will refrain from addressing you in any form in the future. My apologies for your offense.
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: The Prophecy Club - 9/23/2008 11:21:56 PM
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solarfl | | |
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