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biblical world view - 9/15/2008 4:35:38 PM
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drussell52
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Hello. My wife and I are taking the video series with some others called the Truth Project, which is endorsed or backed by Focus on The Family, just started this. Last evening the video was on those who don'[t have a bliblical view of the world versus those who do. One observation by the lecturer was made that if one is aware that God is everywhere present, they will be less likey to indulge in sinful behavior. I am a bit uncomfortable with that line of thinking because have been schooled by nature we are all sinful and unclean. Also, though this encourages the renewing of the mind, it seems to almost border on over logic in living the God-fearing life.. I believe the Lord can put things in our day to keep us from indulging in sinful behavior, but the person themself isn't capable of doing this 24/7. Any thoughts? (Drussell)
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RE: biblical world view - 9/15/2008 11:02:31 PM
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colliefan
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You are touching on a topic that can easily overlap multiple threads and asks a multitude of questions. Such as:
How did I get here?
Is there something larger than myself?
If such a being exists, how can I know him?
Is there purpose/meaning to life?
What is truth?
It affects things such as finance, culture, science, relationships, sexuality, politics, ....
It may be bettr if that question was asked in each particular folder: such as how does my world view affect the movies I attend, how I spend my money......
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RE: biblical world view - 9/16/2008 9:15:19 AM
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timf
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biblical world view
Fear can have a moderating effect on the indulgence of sin. This is why most people obey the criminal code.
For the Christian, we should be led by the Holy Spirit into growing into Christ-likeness.
Phrases like "Biblical worldview" give the impression that the Christian life is primarily determined by what classes you took, instruction you received, and how you were raised. It is almost seen as a cause rather than an effect.
Many people who claim Christ get diverted in their Christian walk into various paths that at times seem to parallel those of the Pharisees. What is sad is that other Christians and even churches can point people to these paths. The remedy for this is to remain steadfastly focused on Jesus.
Often the only voices crying out for wisdom and heartfelt surrender to the Lord come from prison or hospitals. When a Christian can stir the same degree of passion for his Lord that he has for his favorite sports team, Oh, the progress he can make growing into the image of Christ.
The Bible is truth. To have a "Biblical worldview" requires us to become more like Christ (who also is truth). As we grow in truth, the sad deceptions of the world become increasingly obvious. As the Spirit of truth works in us and we cry out for the wisdom that God freely offers to all who ask, we grow in truth and are set free from the captivity of the flesh and the world.
A decrease in sin and the desire of the flesh to sin is proportional to the degree we have allowed the Spirit of God to work in us. This is described in Galatians five. We cannot think that it is our focus of mind that deceases sin. It is the renewed mind from a changed heart that the Holy Spirit builds in us. The Bible describes many things we can do to participate in this transformation.
1. Make no provision for the flesh.
2. Offer ourselves as a living sacrifice.
3. Consider ourselves dead to sin.
4. Be filled with the Holy Spirit.
5. Live no longer for ourselves.
6. Live by faith.
7. Keep ourselves unspotted by the world.
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RE: biblical world view - 9/16/2008 12:54:29 PM
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drmark
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quote:
One observation by the lecturer was made that if one is aware that God is everywhere present, they will be less likey to indulge in sinful behavior. I am a bit uncomfortable with that line of thinking because have been schooled by nature we are all sinful and unclean. I'm frankly a little surprised that a multi-cultural, inter-denominational program like the Truth Project would highlight a possibly controversial doctrinal teaching such as holiness. On the other hand, I am thrilled that they consider holiness part of the "biblical worldview" and agree fully with the wonderful post above by timf!
quote:
Also, though this encourages the renewing of the mind, it seems to almost border on over logic in living the God-fearing life.. I believe the Lord can put things in our day to keep us from indulging in sinful behavior, but the person themself isn't capable of doing this 24/7. Any thoughts? No reputable Holiness adherent would ever consider that we are able to "keep from indulging in sinful behavior" in our own ability ("themself")! It must always be by the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit that a Christian chooses to obey God and not routinely sin. If you and your wife would like more insight on Holiness doctrine and entire sanctification, I would be happy to provide some links here or in a PM. God bless your studies, Drussell!
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RE: biblical world view - 9/16/2008 2:29:13 PM
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Bluethread
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Since the "holiness" alternative has been put forth, I presume other views are acceptable as alternatives. I personally find terms like "biblical worldview" problematic, because it presumes ones interpretaion of Scripture is "the" interpretation. The bible does give us several things(tsitsit, feast, etc) we can do remind us not to violate Adonai's commandments. So, one can say that doing these things could do the same thing as Mr. Dobson's "biblical worldview".
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RE: biblical world view - 9/16/2008 4:38:51 PM
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drussell52
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quote:
ORIGINAL: timf
biblical world view
Fear can have a moderating effect on the indulgence of sin. This is why most people obey the criminal code.
For the Christian, we should be led by the Holy Spirit into growing into Christ-likeness.
Phrases like "Biblical worldview" give the impression that the Christian life is primarily determined by what classes you took, instruction you received, and how you were raised. It is almost seen as a cause rather than an effect.
Many people who claim Christ get diverted in their Christian walk into various paths that at times seem to parallel those of the Pharisees. What is sad is that other Christians and even churches can point people to these paths. The remedy for this is to remain steadfastly focused on Jesus.
Often the only voices crying out for wisdom and heartfelt surrender to the Lord come from prison or hospitals. When a Christian can stir the same degree of passion for his Lord that he has for his favorite sports team, Oh, the progress he can make growing into the image of Christ.
The Bible is truth. To have a "Biblical worldview" requires us to become more like Christ (who also is truth). As we grow in truth, the sad deceptions of the world become increasingly obvious. As the Spirit of truth works in us and we cry out for the wisdom that God freely offers to all who ask, we grow in truth and are set free from the captivity of the flesh and the world.
A decrease in sin and the desire of the flesh to sin is proportional to the degree we have allowed the Spirit of God to work in us. This is described in Galatians five. We cannot think that it is our focus of mind that deceases sin. It is the renewed mind from a changed heart that the Holy Spirit builds in us. The Bible describes many things we can do to participate in this transformation.
1. Make no provision for the flesh.
2. Offer ourselves as a living sacrifice.
3. Consider ourselves dead to sin.
4. Be filled with the Holy Spirit.
5. Live no longer for ourselves.
6. Live by faith.
7. Keep ourselves unspotted by the world.
Thank you everyone for your posts, and special thanks to Timf for taking the time to put together such a well-constructed response. The person doing the Truth Project presentation isn't Dr. Dobson, but a person whose nmae is Dale Tacket, or something like that spelling, but has video clips inserted from contemporaries like Dr. R. C. Sproll and Dr. Ravi Zecharias, (spelled phonentically because I am visually impaired), and in all fairness we are at the second study in a series of 12 or so studies. Not closing this topic by any means but simply wanted to thank you and elaborate a bit further.
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RE: biblical world view - 9/16/2008 5:35:05 PM
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john_mark
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drussell52
One observation by the lecturer was made that if one is aware that God is everywhere present, they will be less likey to indulge in sinful behavior.
i wonder how the lecturer would then explain the sin of adam. if any human was truly aware that God is everywhere present it was adam. was adam's worldview faulty, was he tainted by a sin nature prior to sin, just some thoughts that came to mind as i read your post
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RE: biblical world view - 9/16/2008 5:46:12 PM
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colliefan
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This is a fascinating topic and covers how we as Christians process information. The "Greatest Generation", the "Boomers", Gen X, Gen Y, and now Gen E all process information in differing manners.
Today's "twenty-somethings" do not know what it was like without 24/7 Cable TV, computers, and so on. They do not know what is was like to live under the Cold War.
One's world view influences who one interacts with those in his sphere of influence. It affects how one sees religion, politics, and all areas of life.
Charles Coloson has several books on this topic "The Good Life"" and "Now, How then shall we live"
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RE: biblical world view - 9/16/2008 6:51:57 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
This is a fascinating topic and covers how we as Christians process information. The "Greatest Generation", the "Boomers", Gen X, Gen Y, and now Gen E all process information in differing manners.
Today's "twenty-somethings" do not know what it was like without 24/7 Cable TV, computers, and so on. They do not know what is was like to live under the Cold War.
One's world view influences who one interacts with those in his sphere of influence. It affects how one sees religion, politics, and all areas of life.
Charles Coloson has several books on this topic "The Good Life"" and "Now, How then shall we live"
Maybe this is why we have the Shema(Deut 6) to instruct us on the proper way to impart the Scriptures to our children and maintain that family bond.
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: biblical world view - 9/16/2008 8:05:01 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
Maybe this is why we have the Shema(Deut 6) to instruct us on the proper way to impart the Scriptures to our children and maintain that family bond.
In a way, you are correct. Look at the various influences we - us boomers - have had in our formative years. And the influences the ones who have followed us in their formative years.
For example, look at the way fathers were portrayed on TV in the fifties and sixties ("Father knows Best", "Leave it to Beaver", "My Three Sons, "Andy Griffith...." The current crop of TV fathers include characters such as Al Bundy and Homer Simpson. Another major impact on worldview includes the epidemic of fatherless children and the lack of a cohesive community.
While the methods we use to battle a worldview that is contrary to scripture may change from previous generations the message must not change.
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RE: biblical world view - 9/17/2008 7:00:53 AM
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LastofAll
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For us to suppose that we have no responsibility for our own sin, we would be deceiving our own self, for if that were so, Christ would have never told us to repent, nor teach us the differences between right and wrong throughout His Gospel. Moreover, to suppose that we ought to just go about our lives as we wiil, and if the Lord don´t want us to sin, He will let us know, is to grossly ignore Christ´s Words. We of our own selves are absolutely responsible to put an end to willful sin continually; but if you think you must not repent, then it is another Jesus that you know, to the One I know.
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RE: biblical world view - 9/17/2008 4:35:19 PM
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drussell52
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Hi again. Blue-thread I agree with you concerning Deut 6, and other similar passages concerning family instruction. Colliefan, like your point about the battle remains the same from generation to generation, but the "trappings" change. I was listening to the Family Talk Channel on XM, Dr. Alfred Mohler in particular and he sounds much like this person whom I am referring too as well as Charles Coleson and other conservative thinkers. What's interesting, well a lot of things are, is that stats indicate any raised in "the church", as teens or young adults many are leaving, and many middle-agers are not returning back to a faith system. That's alarming! Also, many in our culture seem to have any kind of consistent faith development on a back burner, i.e., weekly rest and reflection, Bible reading, sharing Spiritually with others, but work 70 or 80 hours a week if lucky enough to have a job, cart the kids here and there if families, and accept business/shopping on Sunday as the norm. (See Christianity Today articles on the Sabbath). Enough to make a person's head swim.. I hope some are right in asserting there are those who want to return to a faith lifestyle, and that the LORD will restore His principles before His or at His return. Regretably, in my corner of the world, more are caught up in the din of life compared to those flocking for a change in lifestyle for the better. As Paul says to us, Fight the good fight, to which I prayerfully add with God's enabling to do so. See you again here or elsewhere!
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RE: biblical world view - 9/18/2008 11:12:10 AM
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DaveW
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There is a big difference between a world view and a doctrinal stance. While they may be interrelated, they are not the same at all.
World view consists of how we understand the universe around us works and what is it made of.
The PRMI (Presbyterian charismatics) start their Dunamis workshops with world view issues. (Dunamis I) They divide the world into 3 realms, stacked vertically (for illustration purposes only). They put the physical world on the bottom, a spiritual world in the middle and supreme deity on top. For us bible believers that would be God and His heaven as the top tier.
Ancient man had a small physical world, a very large middle range and a smaller top tier.
The modern man has kept the smaller top tier, perhaps shrunk it even more and all but eliminated the middle tier - the "spirit world" of angels, demons, whatever; and replaced it with a barrier between the very large physical world bottom tier and heaven.
A more biblical model would be that the 3 tiers are more or less equal in size, with God intervening in the events of the physical world fairly often, and frequently using angels to do so. The middle plane is also active with the schemes and devices of the devil intervening into the physical world. Interventions from either source are of necessity supernatural in origin and circumvent the normal laws of nature.
As you can see, whether or not you accept the spiritual intervention into the physical world is much deeper than even deeply held doctrinal stances, and being taught correct doctrines will not correct improper world views.
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RE: biblical world view - 9/18/2008 11:32:44 AM
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drmark
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quote:
As you can see, whether or not you accept the spiritual intervention into the physical world is much deeper than even deeply held doctrinal stances, and being taught correct doctrines will not correct improper world views. This is a gross and somewhat misinformed generalization, DaveW. The only correct and proper worldview is the Biblical worldview. It is thus intellectually impossible to derive and understand the Biblical worldview without utilizing correct Christian doctrine. Teaching orthodoxy alone will not instill correct worldview, but Biblical worldview cannot be properly developed without sound doctrinal influence. I think that's called "necessary but not sufficient".
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RE: biblical world view - 9/18/2008 12:32:31 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
As you can see, whether or not you accept the spiritual intervention into the physical world is much deeper than even deeply held doctrinal stances, and being taught correct doctrines will not correct improper world views.
This is a gross and somewhat misinformed generalization, DaveW. The only correct and proper worldview is the Biblical worldview. It is thus intellectually impossible to derive and understand the Biblical worldview without utilizing correct Christian doctrine. Teaching orthodoxy alone will not instill correct worldview, but Biblical worldview cannot be properly developed without sound doctrinal influence. I think that's called "necessary but not sufficient".
The problem is once we organize things "for illustration purposes only", we then create doctrine in order to protect that illustration. Or the listener accepts the illustration as truth and then becomes defensive when anything threatens that illustration. The only way one can have a biblical world view is to view things based on what the bible actually says.
Now, doctrine is a system of belief that is derived from the Scriptures. So, to say that, "Biblical worldview cannot be properly developed without sound doctrinal influence." is to codify ones interpretation of Scripture and put it ahead of direct revelation and the council of the rightious. In my opinion, proper interpretation of Scripture involves revelation of all types varifying one another in the whole council of Adonai.
Therefore, there are several risks in putting one source above the others.
If we take a strict literal view of "biblical world view", we risk the errors of the Karites. This school of thought always asks, "Where is it written?" as if the written Word is all Adonai says to us.
Those who see the "biblical world view" as that which has been established in doctrine risk the errors of the Pharisees. By placing doctrine above Scripture, one can miss the true meaning of Scripture due to ones bias.
Those who see the "biblical world view" as the council of the righteous, risk the errors of the Herodians. This view experiences a creaping perversion of ones beliefs as cultural influences errode ones view of reality.
Finally, when one sees the "biblical world view" as tied primarily to personal revelation, one runs the risk of the errors of the mystics. This not only can result in a society were every man does what is right in his own eyes, but leaves on open to satanic influence.
Now, this is not a complete list of the various ways one can define "biblical world view". It is merely an attempt to show how some of the most common attempts to do so have lead some to error.
Therefore, after much consideration, I am not sure a "biblical world view" is an honorable goal. I think it might be better to focus on Adonai and seek His council by any and all means, without placing undue weight on any form of revelation, balancing one against the other to determine what it is Adonai is truly telling us. In short, life is more about ones communion with Adonai than ones view of the world. As one grows in ones relationship with Adonai, one will by definition have a more positive influence on the world around him, in my opinion.
< Message edited by Bluethread -- 9/18/2008 12:40:41 PM >
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RE: biblical world view - 9/18/2008 12:57:06 PM
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drmark
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quote:
Now, this is not a complete list of the various ways one can define "biblical world view". It is merely an attempt to show how some of the most common attempts to do so have lead some to error. Yes, as I said before, necessary but not sufficient. 
Thanks for the history lesson, Bluethread.
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RE: biblical world view - 9/18/2008 2:46:47 PM
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colliefan
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Taken to an extreme one can take a “biblical word view” and impose a system of legalism; which in the extreme one can be a Gnostic where all forms of the world are evil. On the other extreme, one have a biblical worldview to arrive at antinomianism where all is permitted.
In essence, one’s worldview involves how he relates to one’s universe. This involves a set of questions from which flow more questions. The good news is there is life, meaning, and fulfillment found in the search for answers to these questions.
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RE: biblical world view - 9/21/2008 1:33:54 AM
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Ezra
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quote:
if one is aware that God is everywhere present, they will be less likey to indulge in sinful behavior. I am a bit uncomfortable with that line of thinking because have been schooled by nature we are all sinful and unclean.
Why should a Christian be uncomfortable with the knowledge that because God knows and sees all things, it is a deterrent to sin? As a matter of fact, the Bible urges us to be conscious of this fact so that we may strive to be righteous. Those who are saved have been washed in the blood of Christ and clothed with His righteousness, therefore they are no longer "sinful and unclean" in God's sight. Indeed, they are "accepted in the Beloved" and are "children of God".
As to the possession of a biblical worldview, that can only apply to those who have been saved by grace and born again by the Holy Spirit. Therefore to make distinctions before defining to whom a biblical worldview applies is to mislead people into thinking that the unsaved can have such a world view. First comes salvation, then sanctification, which involves the transformation of our minds by the Word of God and the Spirit of God.
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RE: biblical world view - 9/21/2008 8:19:10 AM
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drmark
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quote:
Therefore to make distinctions before defining to whom a biblical worldview applies is to mislead people into thinking that the unsaved can have such a world view. Rarely, an unsaved person may have such a worldview, but s/he will always be unsuccessful in consistent application without saving grace and HS power in their lives.
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RE: biblical world view - 9/21/2008 5:16:15 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
applies is to mislead people into thinking that the unsaved can have such a world view.
Somewhat disagree with this statement; prior to the sixties on held a worldview that the bible was authoritive even if they were not a believer. Move forward a generation, when someone would quote from the bible, a non-believer would question the authority of the bible.
Take an example from culture: prior to 1967, the movie industry had a production code in which religion could not be denegrated. Even the "voice" of God in "The Ten Commandments" was held in high esteem,
In 1968 the production code was dropped in favor of the ratings system and "Mindnight Cowboy" became the first X-rated movie to win an Oscar.
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RE: biblical world view - 9/23/2008 3:18:00 PM
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DaveW
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quote:
As to the possession of a biblical worldview, that can only apply to those who have been saved by grace and born again by the Holy Spirit. Therefore to make distinctions before defining to whom a biblical worldview applies is to mislead people into thinking that the unsaved can have such a world view. First comes salvation, then sanctification, which involves the transformation of our minds by the Word of God and the Spirit of God. I would disagree. Those who come to faith from primitive pagan culuture have a much easier time believing the bible than those from sophositcated western cultures.
Why do they have an easier time? They already understand the supernatural as it is part of their world view.
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RE: biblical world view - 9/23/2008 11:19:21 PM
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colliefan
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One of the speakers that is leading my church's worldview class said the mainland Chinese have no word for "sinner" the word that is used is "criminal." So, to ask an average Chinese person if she was a "sinner" she would say "no", b/c in her mind she is a law abiding individual.
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RE: biblical world view - 9/24/2008 3:51:08 AM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
One of the speakers that is leading my church's worldview class said the mainland Chinese have no word for "sinner" the word that is used is "criminal." So, to ask an average Chinese person if she was a "sinner" she would say "no", b/c in her mind she is a law abiding individual.
That is not uncommon in the USA either. Many do not consider themselves sinners because they have not been convicted in a court of law. The difference in world view is not that the person has not errored, but that the person recognizes the state as the authority rather than Adonai. I can see where this could be the presumption in a totalitarian state. However, it is too bad that many in a republic such as the USA would hold such a view.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: biblical world view - 9/24/2008 7:57:22 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
One of the speakers that is leading my church's worldview class said the mainland Chinese have no word for "sinner" the word that is used is "criminal." So, to ask an average Chinese person if she was a "sinner" she would say "no", b/c in her mind she is a law abiding individual. quote:
That is not uncommon in the USA either. Many do not consider themselves sinners because they have not been convicted in a court of law. The difference in world view is not that the person has not errored, but that the person recognizes the state as the authority rather than Adonai. These are NOT world view issues. At all.
World view has to do with whether you think the laws of physics control everything or if something exists beyond our physical universe that goes beyond those laws and how they interact.
Edited to add:
From the "Believe the OT Litterally" thread:quote:
My history professor was talking about how they uncovered Jerico and how scientists were baffled at how the walls had fallen inward in a very atypical fashion. How it apparently wasn't caused by some natural disaster (earthquake). or at least not one identified yet as they had tried to speculate. What was found appeared to back up the OT scriptures with the absence of a scientific explanation... (in the minds of many religious people) or at least scientists couldn't (as of yet) twist and turn it enough to refute them. THIS is a world view issue. If you have to come up with some formula that fits the laws of physics to explain what happened in the bible, YOU DO NOT HAVE A BIBLICAL WORLD VIEW. You think physics is Lord and not God.
< Message edited by DaveW -- 9/24/2008 10:27:50 AM >
_____________________________
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We are now grandparents TWICE!!
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RE: biblical world view - 9/24/2008 12:27:03 PM
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drmark
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quote:
These are NOT world view issues. At all.
World view has to do with whether you think the laws of physics control everything or if something exists beyond our physical universe that goes beyond those laws and how they interact. Perhaps I could offer a simple semantic clarification. There are essentially two basic competing worldviews - Biblical/Christian and humanist/naturalist. However, there are numerous issues which may be considered under these two worldview paradigms. Certainly legal and governmental issues are two which fall under one's worldview belief system.
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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