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RE: Next administration and the economy - 9/17/2008 11:31:34 AM
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Kerryannism
Posts: 106
Joined: 9/28/2007
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All one hears about these days is how the Government is assisting the big corporations in their crisis. The debt that will come from this help the Government is giving will manifest in the way of increased Federal Income taxes for us. We need to hear more about how they are going to help families from going under!
_____________________________
Jesus said that what we measure out is the same measure by which we receive.
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RE: Next administration and the economy - 9/17/2008 11:35:07 AM
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P31W
Posts: 3005
Joined: 6/13/2005
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Believe it or not those corporations employ people who have families and pay taxes.
Do "I" like corp bail outs! No I don't. But if taxpayers don't bail "some" of them out then it means people will lose their jobs and families will go under. In some instances it means thousands of people and the businesses (people) of those who work alongside the corporations or clean their buidlings and the like will lose their jobs.
Sometimes you need to allow your child to suffer the negative consequences for their actions. At other times you need to run out into the street and grab them up before the truck runs over them and kills them.
quote:
We need to hear more about how they are going to help families from going under!
One ways is to help employers/companies stay open.
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RE: Next administration and the economy - 9/17/2008 11:43:09 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 1762
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: online
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And these financial institutions that are being bailed our are the ones holding the notes on most of what we over-indulged Americans "own" and the stuff we want to continue to buy. The government has to keep the mortgage industry afloat, for example, or we're all up a creek. This is how they're trying to keep American families from going under although it's also the government's bad decisions about regulation of the finacial instutitions that's created these problems. But when Bill Clinton was making it possible for anyone with a pulse to get a mortgage and we were all signing on the dotted line for adjustable, no-money-down terms, we certainly weren't complaining then.
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RE: Next administration and the economy - 9/17/2008 12:07:30 PM
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Kerryannism
Posts: 106
Joined: 9/28/2007
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Oh you better believe they employ people :-) of course they employ people! There are other businesses that employ individuals besides the (history of being greedy) mortgage companies and the Government is well aware of their crisis and are not coming to their aid. Yes, yes, I know they are mortgage companies, the same mortgage companies that lent the money to people who are in crisis now and loosing their homes now. The companies bad debt is being paid off, we will have to foot that bill, and the families are living on the street.
Yes there are folks who accepted mortgage terms below standards. I bet is because they had to. I bet it was because they wanted a back yard for their children. The mortgage companies knew alot more about their ability to pay their payments in a crisis then they ever did and still wrote up the loan!
The average family is suffering due to decisions that they have had no part in. The average family is dealing with the rise in cost of EVERYTHING and the cost of living it is out of control. Most people can afford and are paying their mortgages but it is becoming increasingly more difficult to do so and the quality of their lives are being affected. The Government needs to come to their aid.
_____________________________
Jesus said that what we measure out is the same measure by which we receive.
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RE: Next administration and the economy - 9/17/2008 12:20:28 PM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1224
Joined: 3/21/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
I agree, they go hand in hand but I think same should happen with SS that P31W is suggesting with Medicare - a gradual phase out/down. A person my age (mid-30s) has no business expecting to ever see a dime of what's being taken from them under the guise of SS witholdings come back to them at retirement or any other time. If you don't have enough sense to plan for yourself, you're going to be hurting.
I am mid 40's single no kids and etc I expect nothing reggard all the money state and federal gov is taking from me and I'm using just the roads, buildings and etc..I have my First Direct Health Insurance (the one you pay 30.00 for visit..  ) taking care of my health best I can and praying to God that I have no consequences at some point in my life because I was smoker for 20 years  ..I have my savings account, little bit of debit because friends told me is good for credit score you have bit of debit, I kind of take pride in my credit and do the things to make it good and keep beautiful score numbers. I have the same credit card for 15 years and just one store card also...I dont own a home but rent a place,I choosed intead invest commercial property with parteners, that I wish it sell soon, because it is my money for missions and stuff, I was planning to invest some of it and etc etc I dont plan to have life insurance or other stuff people with families and kids may need to etc my goal is to just serve in missions mobilization and travelling, with my own money that God blessed me with and giving myself to it until I die or the Lord comes back. That is my goal and plan!
Now another thing that protects my future in eartly manners also is that I am a military daughter in Brasil and because I'm a woman I will automaticaly receive pension together with my Mom and sister. My Dad  choosed a plan to protect us since he was young Lieutenat in the 60's as all others males military in our family, to be taken lots in his paycheck and life insurance, in the case ofhis death and he went to reserve as an Admiral etc. He always told us all that he had more value dead than alive. At same time I asked him not keep repeating that as my love for him is so great I understood by doing that and sacrificing sooo much he was showing his love for my Mom, brother, sister and myself. Brazil is not a country its military goes to war...of course different than USA and etc dont know how things work here regarding military pensions and stuff...
Who is going to take care of all the veterans and military reggarding health care and pensions and etc? Do all the cost for those are included in the military budget or not?
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RE: Next administration and the economy - 9/17/2008 12:21:40 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1287
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
Status: offline
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quote:
The average family is suffering due to decisions that they have had no part in. The average family is dealing with the rise in cost of EVERYTHING and the cost of living it is out of control. Most people can afford and are paying their mortgages but it is becoming increasingly more difficult to do so and the quality of their lives are being affected. The Government need to come to their aid.
Judging by the credit card debt the average household sees fit to carry, as well as the proclivity to make payments on various and sundry things that are most assuredly NOT necessities, I'd say the average family ought to step up and take their share of the blame. And having a backyard for your children is NOT a civil right.
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Molon Labe
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RE: Next administration and the economy - 9/18/2008 10:10:46 AM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1224
Joined: 3/21/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
And these financial institutions that are being bailed our are the ones holding the notes on most of what we over-indulged Americans "own" and the stuff we want to continue to buy. The government has to keep the mortgage industry afloat, for example, or we're all up a creek. This is how they're trying to keep American families from going under although it's also the government's bad decisions about regulation of the finacial instutitions that's created these problems. But when Bill Clinton was making it possible for anyone with a pulse to get a mortgage and we were all signing on the dotted line for adjustable, no-money-down terms, we certainly weren't complaining then.
Its unbeliavable that if the gov has no money of its own but its our money and borrowed money from other countries, how can it goes bailing out whomever they choose and the bailing out not even resolve the companies situation as it goes under anyways..than the billions the gov gave to those companies its just gone with the wind and we are not going to see any of it? The gov gave away money for a lost dead company only with the hopes it would somehow would stand and etc?
How can the gov do that? How can it just decides give away billions to be burn away like that? If we put in a paper how much money its been given away to bail out companies how much do we have to work and be taxed to recuperate it? I wish to have an ideia as how much a billion dollars equals what as taxes goes of what we real people pay by being taken from paycheck and the things we by etc. I wish to kind of put a face in the money being given away.
Ewwwww I cannot believe what my eyes and my brains are starting to understand! 
quote:
Judging by the credit card debt the average household sees fit to carry, as well as the proclivity to make payments on various and sundry things that are most assuredly NOT necessities, I'd say the average family ought to step up and take their share of the blame. And having a backyard for your children is NOT a civil right.
Yes, that is true.
I think this situation of buying and etc is like an addiction to many, and the surroundings of so many malls and stores and many products, always "new" stuff comming into the shelfs etc and people wanting to get the latest mentality...the mentality must change and serious crises can make people wake up anyways as have to stop spending in cold turkey manners.
But if people stop buying than things you get worse? Well, I guess many do pay just minimun charges in their credit cards..its just an ilusion people having credit they have no real money, just the minimum they are paying..I supose. 
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RE: Next administration and the economy - 9/18/2008 10:23:42 AM
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P31W
Posts: 3005
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Yes there are folks who accepted mortgage terms below standards. I bet is because they had to. I bet it was because they wanted a back yard for their children. The mortgage companies knew alot more about their ability to pay their payments in a crisis then they ever did and still wrote up the loan!
God commanded for "us Christians" to know the state of our own affairs. Not depend on others to take care of us or know our own financial situation better than we know it ourselves. God told us that we are not to put ourselves into a position of surity. That means willingly obligating ourselves to repay a debt that we did not have a "sure" way to repay. God even warned us that "if we raise a child in the way he should go when he is older he will not depart from it. Just as the rich rule the poor so the borrower is servant to the lender". God also told us to be content with what he blessed us with.
Most borrowing in the Average American household is out of being discontent with what God has blessed us with and it's about wanting MORE than God has blessed us with. (greed, ungrateful)
quote:
The average family is suffering due to decisions that they have had no part in. The average family is dealing with the rise in cost of EVERYTHING and the cost of living it is out of control. Most people can afford and are paying their mortgages but it is becoming increasingly more difficult to do so and the quality of their lives are being affected. The Government needs to come to their aid.
The average american family is being disobedient to God. The average American family is not living God's truths concerning how to handle "His" money that "HE" entrusted to us. The average Amerian family needs to repent of that sin, take God's word serious and apply it to their everyday life including their financial life.
Christians who have been actively living God's word in all areas of their life including financial areas are more than likely the very ones who are bailing others out and NOT asking the government for a handout or aid.
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RE: Next administration and the economy - 9/18/2008 12:18:27 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 766
Joined: 8/6/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
The average american family is being disobedient to God. The average American family is not living God's truths concerning how to handle "His" money that "HE" entrusted to us. The average Amerian family needs to repent of that sin, take God's word serious and apply it to their everyday life including their financial life.
Christians who have been actively living God's word in all areas of their life including financial areas are more than likely the very ones who are bailing others out and NOT asking the government for a handout or aid.
People who are suffering economic hardship aren't good Christians?
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RE: Next administration and the economy - 9/18/2008 12:48:40 PM
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ken1906_4
Posts: 272
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Maryland
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kerryannism
All one hears about these days is how the Government is assisting the big corporations in their crisis. The debt that will come from this help the Government is giving will manifest in the way of increased Federal Income taxes for us. We need to hear more about how they are going to help families from going under!
We don't matter. They are going to say what we want to hear to get elected. These politicians are a bunch of self-serving corporatist and it trascends party because both sides are guilty. This so called democracy we are in is slowing moving toward a Plutocracy/Oligarchy in which only the elite and those with power control the masses. Bailing out corporations because the executives messed up is absolutley crazy and we the American people are the ones who have to pay for their blunders. People worried about more taxes, well heck, we going to have to pay more taxes anyway to cover these bailouts. The system is beyond broken and neither candidate is saying anything viable even though I think Obama is more in touch of the situation than McCain. Either way it does not matter because both candidates, to a certain degree are in league with big business. These corporations and their money trump the needs of the american people.
_____________________________
"Choosing between Republicans and Democrats is like choosing between the Pharisees and Sadducees. Both are enemies of Christ."
True colors are being revealed
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RE: Next administration and the economy - 9/18/2008 1:00:54 PM
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ken1906_4
Posts: 272
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Maryland
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
The average american family is being disobedient to God. The average American family is not living God's truths concerning how to handle "His" money that "HE" entrusted to us. The average Amerian family needs to repent of that sin, take God's word serious and apply it to their everyday life including their financial life.
Christians who have been actively living God's word in all areas of their life including financial areas are more than likely the very ones who are bailing others out and NOT asking the government for a handout or aid.
People who are suffering economic hardship aren't good Christians?
Was wondering the same thing. No disrespect, but that is the type of stuff I be hearing coming from your typical "name it, claim it", "blab it, grab it" prosperity preacher.
_____________________________
"Choosing between Republicans and Democrats is like choosing between the Pharisees and Sadducees. Both are enemies of Christ."
True colors are being revealed
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RE: Next administration and the economy - 9/18/2008 1:06:25 PM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 615
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
Status: offline
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quote:
Most borrowing in the Average American household is out of being discontent with what God has blessed us with and it's about wanting MORE than God has blessed us with. (greed, ungrateful)
That's what she is saying. There is so much truth in what PW is saying.
We are not grateful and not content with what God has given us.
G
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It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Next administration and the economy - 9/18/2008 1:10:10 PM
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P31W
Posts: 3005
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
People who are suffering economic hardship aren't good Christians?
The average american family is being disobedient to God. The average American family is not living God's truths concerning how to handle "His" money that "HE" entrusted to us. The average Amerian family needs to repent of that sin, take God's word serious and apply it to their everyday life including their financial life.
Christians who have been actively living God's word in all areas of their life including financial areas are more than likely the very ones who are bailing others out and NOT asking the government for a handout or aid.
quote:
that is the type of stuff I be hearing coming from your typical "name it, claim it", "blab it, grab it" prosperity preacher.
It's the exact opposite. Name it and claim it is about "us" telling God what He must do. What I am saying is that we are to be doing what God already told us long ago to do in His Word.
Tell me what scripture teaches about debt, co-signing, coveting your neighbor's yard, working with a diligent hand, prudence, providing for our families needs, the needs of our parents and any needy in our own family, knowing the state of your financial affairs, debt, meeting our vows and how serious we should be about making vows and keeping them, working when opportunity arises not when the mood strikes, working day and night in order to meet your families needs?
These are just a "few" of the biblical principles I am talking about.
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RE: Next administration and the economy - 9/18/2008 7:29:32 PM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1224
Joined: 3/21/2007
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Omg..I was reading the Brazilian news and just find out that those investiment banks dying and in crises etc were the same institutions behind the IMF and their dealings with 3rd world nations debts and many etc Lord have mercy. And the revolting thing that those institutions may be gone, reborn under different name, who knows the many possibilities? BUT the many humans beings (behind those decisions that affection millions of people around the globe) who profit from negotions, manipulations or whatever ..are walking millionaries, their $ assets secure etc.
How come a person assaults a bank run with few thousands go to jail and white collar criminals or manipulators are allowed to walk away free? The certainty one have is that earthly justice and everything human is way way imperfect and faulty - BUT God knows everything and the heart of each one living and breathing. He is just and soon He will intervene and everybody will shut up and faint and get it! Amem!
Now it seems that 6 Central Banks injected more billions into the markets. Than more and more countries citizens around the world have the same complaints and going ballistic..: "they took our money also!"
Maranata Lord Jesus!
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RE: Next administration and the economy - 9/18/2008 8:56:31 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 1762
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
People who are suffering economic hardship aren't good Christians?
The average american family is being disobedient to God. The average American family is not living God's truths concerning how to handle "His" money that "HE" entrusted to us. The average Amerian family needs to repent of that sin, take God's word serious and apply it to their everyday life including their financial life.
Christians who have been actively living God's word in all areas of their life including financial areas are more than likely the very ones who are bailing others out and NOT asking the government for a handout or aid.
quote:
that is the type of stuff I be hearing coming from your typical "name it, claim it", "blab it, grab it" prosperity preacher.
It's the exact opposite. Name it and claim it is about "us" telling God what He must do. What I am saying is that we are to be doing what God already told us long ago to do in His Word.
Tell me what scripture teaches about debt, co-signing, coveting your neighbor's yard, working with a diligent hand, prudence, providing for our families needs, the needs of our parents and any needy in our own family, knowing the state of your financial affairs, debt, meeting our vows and how serious we should be about making vows and keeping them, working when opportunity arises not when the mood strikes, working day and night in order to meet your families needs?
These are just a "few" of the biblical principles I am talking about.
You are absolutely right! I don't think we can call them (or anyone) "bad Christians" but definitely unwise and pathetically lacking in stewardship....probably coming from churches in this country scared to death to talk about money!!
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RE: Next administration and the economy - 9/18/2008 10:02:56 PM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1224
Joined: 3/21/2007
Status: offline
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I just discovered another thing: China Investiment Group may want to aquire 49% of Morgan Stanley...and it seems it already have some single diits % on it...
Morgan Stanley is ranked 2nd bank in the country I think...hope Wachovia get to fuse with it and not a Chinese corporation.
Hope some domestic institutions get to fuse together during this crise and not foreigners. Well, I deslike the investment banks now that I know their many speculations around the world with another banking institutions (hurting countries and people) still if they get to survive, wish CPR happens with home paramedics help.
Another thing I discovered is that AGI (?is the letters order right?) group many people and companies have their insurances by it here in Ga. They have 2 offices buildings here, there is the aviation insurance building, covers Delta, Airtran and the Hartsfield airport also, plus the teachers and I supose others. Hope it will recuperate soon with the billions injected on it etc
Hope that as the debate date is approaching the candidates really really talk about the serious issues going on.
Good night everybody and thank you for your inputs!
Grace and Peace.
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RE: Next administration and the economy - 9/19/2008 9:56:06 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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I'd like to know where we are suppose to be bailing out billionaires from the Bible?
I certainly don't need any ecconomist to tell me it is bad finacially.
This REpublican Gov't has ran up the debt, gotten in trouble.
I heard John Mccain say yesterday that BO is the part of Washington that needs fixing.
I was like what kind of crazy mess is that.
John has been there 28 years and is part of the problem.
Karl Rove is great if he can convince people that John is the change agent.
I hope Bo doesnt win. So they cannot blame him for
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RE: Next administration and the economy - 9/19/2008 6:47:33 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1029
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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...by the end of this weekend, I would say the next President is going to have VERY FEW options....
-inherit a record deficit from the currentadministration
-Iraq war
-Afghanistan war
...and drum roll...a full scale bail out of our financial insitutions
Now is either candidate going to be straight up about the hard budgetary facts over the next 6 weeks.
McCain will keep preaching his tax cuts -- (yea cut government revenue even more)
Obama will arugue we need to support those in foreclosure...which of course will cost money.
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RE: Next administration and the economy - 9/20/2008 7:44:30 AM
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its_GO_time
Posts: 220
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ken1906_4
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
The average american family is being disobedient to God. The average American family is not living God's truths concerning how to handle "His" money that "HE" entrusted to us. The average Amerian family needs to repent of that sin, take God's word serious and apply it to their everyday life including their financial life.
Christians who have been actively living God's word in all areas of their life including financial areas are more than likely the very ones who are bailing others out and NOT asking the government for a handout or aid.
People who are suffering economic hardship aren't good Christians?
Was wondering the same thing. No disrespect, but that is the type of stuff I be hearing coming from your typical "name it, claim it", "blab it, grab it" prosperity preacher.
...or maybe one of Job's "friends"
_____________________________
"Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master" - Sallust
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RE: Next administration and the economy - 9/20/2008 10:33:19 AM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1224
Joined: 3/21/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
And what is the alternative? Have you thought about that?
The bailout, as much as some are whinning about it, is NOT about bailing out a bunch of billionaire investors. It is about saving the financial markets which is the foundation of our economy as well as most of the world's economies.
If the government did nothing, you could count on the financial markets collapsing... something many politicians were already predicting. Is that really what you want? Is your hatred so intense that you would prefer to inflict unimaginable economic disaster on the poorest of citizens?
If the financial markets collapsed, we would be facing another situation like 1929. I don't think anyone really wants that... do you?
It seems that US did not learn much with 1929, everything goes reggarding investiment many predicting chaos e doing nothing..when things got really bad than they decided to come up with a package that details of it still in the writting and making but it comes to my understanding that the US People are being the trash of greedy investiments by the con artistis of Wall Street. All the trash and poisoned stuff that worths nothing is comming out of all those institutions and coming to the lap of the tax payers.
Other solution? Why not let banking absorve other bankings messes? Well it was not possible right? Because the mess and irresponsability to come up with a plan and package 1, 2 years ago did not cross the minds of those in the Gov and legislature. Other solution let the bag con artist institutions die and just go, many of US is already sold out to outsiders anyways.
I am sure disgusted with the GREED ways of this system. And yes many because of the latest bail out package will go away richer and even before that all the billions injections that went to market are gone and now more billions are on the way to bail whole Wall Street back out...right. I whinning yes with indignation of the uglyness what we have been seeing the power and love of mamom and of course profits at all costs.
I really do not know much but what I know is that I do not trust the Gov, the parties and their politicians, the banking institutions or whatever I do trust in God alone and His mighty intervention, this world and its ways will "soon" be no more, it is already judged as a failure, corrupt, no bail out, no packages to this world system.
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No one "has to" take on a mortgage. I rent and have a huge fenced in backyard in a very nice neighborhood. 
in Office of the President ....and watch how short of a time it takes until total gridlock occurs 
