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What do you think of TheCall - 9/15/2008 5:27:39 AM
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SpiritualPowers
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http://www.thecall.com/
We went to whats called a Burn (a 12 hour fast and fellowship in support of TheCall) last month in support and have a bllessed time .
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/15/2008 6:34:46 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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TheCall... show up to fast and pray for twelve hours for a variety of topics. As a person who can be a witness to a couple of the original 7 events, I can say that I am in support of TheCall. I've already said why in a couple different threads, so I don't think I will repeat them here... for the sake of those who hate The Call as much as my own.
Adam
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/16/2008 9:34:27 AM
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Soxfan
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Nothing but youth indoctrination into the Latter Rain cult.
It is overseen by the C Peter Wagner's NAR and ICA.
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"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/16/2008 10:50:04 AM
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Kat_D
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While I don't know a few of them, the Call's Leadership Team is a virtual who's who of false teachers/prophets, several of whom aligned themselves with and endorsed Todd Bentley and his fiasco, others who were members of or associated with the now defunct and disredited Kansas City Prophets, and still others were involved in the Toronto Blessing, etc., etc. etc., ...you get the picture!:
Lou Engle .
Mike Bickle
Brian Kim
Wesley and Stacey Campbell
Che Ahn
James Goll
Jane Hansen
Pastor Mark Gonzales
Bishop Harry Jackson
Dutch Sheets
Karen Wheaton
Based on the fact that a movement like this can and will be judged on who organizes and runs it, I give The Call a resounding 
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/16/2008 11:28:31 AM
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earthless
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Ditto the above two posts. I don't see how self-professing Christians can embrace a movement headed by false prophets and false teachers.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/16/2008 9:01:10 PM
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FurGodWurLivin
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quote:
Based on the fact that a movement like this can and will be judged on who organizes and runs it, I give The Call a resounding... ...Emoticon. I never knew you to be so emotional... [/end sarcasm] Actually, the movement is ultimately going to be judged by the fruit thereof. If it causes people to pray, repent, and turn back to God, it doesn't matter who is heading it. Suffice it to say, you are so busy focusing on the identity of the leadership that we are neglecting what they are doing.quote:
Ditto the above two posts. I don't see how self-professing Christians can embrace a movement headed by false prophets and false teachers. After all the discussions we have had on it? I'm must be losing my touch...
Adam
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/16/2008 9:43:43 PM
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TrustingGod
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FurGod, I respectfully disagree. It DOES matter who is leading. If they are false teachers, you cannot believe them. If they teach 95% truth and 5% false, then they are dangerous. Most people following them will not discern the 5% false.
Satan disguises himself as an angel of light - so if light causes someone to pray, it is okay to follow Satan? I realize this is a radical example, but it follows your line above.
At some time, the false teachers will start teaching 95% lies and only 5% truth - then should we still follow?
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/16/2008 9:58:22 PM
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FurGodWurLivin
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quote:
If they teach 95% truth and 5% false, then they are dangerous. Most people following them will not discern the 5% false. So you don't listen to any human preachers ever? If you do, then you are having discern "5%" falsity. Not one single person on earth is going to have perfect doctrine. That isn't pessimism, that is human reality.quote:
Satan disguises himself as an angel of light - so if light causes someone to pray, it is okay to follow Satan? I realize this is a radical example, but it follows your line above. Nooooooo..... you are mixing your metaphors. If someone whose doctrine I disagree with has a ministry that is causing people to repent and turn to God, I will not condemn them. Better an imperfect man with good fruit than a man with perfect doctrine and zero fruit of any kind.quote:
At some time, the false teachers will start teaching 95% lies and only 5% truth - then should we still follow? Am I really supposed to quiver at a hypothetical question? If you desire to have a discussion about reality, bring it on. Otherwise, it is philosophical and biblical... hence, not really important.
Why strain at a gnat and not notice swallowing a camel?quote:
FurGod, I respectfully disagree. It DOES matter who is leading. If they are false teachers, you cannot believe them. If someone had a true repetence and turned to God under the leadership of Jim Jones, is that person "less saved" because of their leader? Of course not. As someone who has been to a couple different "Call" events, I know that the main thrust of them is getting people to repent for the sins of the nation. I don't care who the "leader" is, if we are repenting for our sins we are doing the Lord's work. How theologically accurate do you need to be if you message is "repent!"?
Adam
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/17/2008 8:33:29 AM
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earthless
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Core essentials, Adam... Core essentials.
Many preachers out there are indeed teaching 100% sound doctrine on the core essentials. And that's not even taking into consideration the false prophet status of some of those in leadership with The Call.
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/17/2008 2:39:51 PM
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Peter_Gunn
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The Call = Dominionism
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/17/2008 4:15:33 PM
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Kat_D
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quote:
FurGod, I respectfully disagree. It DOES matter who is leading. If they are false teachers, you cannot believe them. quote:
If someone had a true repetence and turned to God under the leadership of Jim Jones, is that person "less saved" because of their leader? Of course not. As someone who has been to a couple different "Call" events, I know that the main thrust of them is getting people to repent for the sins of the nation. I don't care who the "leader" is, if we are repenting for our sins we are doing the Lord's work. How theologically accurate do you need to be if you message is "repent!"?
Adam
Please tell me, what do they plan to do with these new believers so they don't fall away after they repent?...How will they be discipled?
Oh, silly me, I know!...
They will be encouraged by The Call's staff to enroll in "The Call Institute" (which) "exists to equip, disciple and commission an emerging generation of radical Nazirites." Oh, and guess who the leaders are there?... Lou Engle, Allen Hood, Brent Steeno, all of whom are disciples of Mike Bickle (also a leader of The Call Institute) who formerly pastored the disgraced Kansas City Prophets and is a promoter of Latter Rain/Manifest Sons of God theology.
Edited to add a word I left out. 
< Message edited by Kat_D -- 9/17/2008 6:00:52 PM >
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~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/17/2008 4:51:56 PM
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Peter_Gunn
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
As someone who has been to a couple different "Call" events, I know that the main thrust of them is getting people to repent for the sins of the nation. I don't care who the "leader" is, if we are repenting for our sins we are doing the Lord's work. How theologically accurate do you need to be if you message is "repent!"?
Adam
(Word above bolded by me)
Say, Adam...as one who's been there, is there a "call" for personal repentance, as well?
I watched several hours of it (with a bottle of Maalox by my side) last month on GodTV (again...that bottle of Maalox), and saw no mention of personal repentance. The people there were encouraged to join black churches and adopt babies...that's it as far as anything "personal" that I saw.
I'm acquainted with people that have been to the two big Calls in DC and, in them, see a lot of what I saw on TV...1) blaming the World for everything bad and 2) not calling the Church to repentance. Biblical precedents???
The messages I got from watching their "production" and doing my own research were that, as Christians, our job is to take over the government. Biblical precedents???
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/17/2008 5:48:57 PM
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PatHarris
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
quote:
If they teach 95% truth and 5% false, then they are dangerous. Most people following them will not discern the 5% false. So you don't listen to any human preachers ever? If you do, then you are having discern "5%" falsity. Not one single person on earth is going to have perfect doctrine. That isn't pessimism, that is human reality.quote:
Satan disguises himself as an angel of light - so if light causes someone to pray, it is okay to follow Satan? I realize this is a radical example, but it follows your line above. Nooooooo..... you are mixing your metaphors. If someone whose doctrine I disagree with has a ministry that is causing people to repent and turn to God, I will not condemn them. Better an imperfect man with good fruit than a man with perfect doctrine and zero fruit of any kind.quote:
At some time, the false teachers will start teaching 95% lies and only 5% truth - then should we still follow? Am I really supposed to quiver at a hypothetical question? If you desire to have a discussion about reality, bring it on. Otherwise, it is philosophical and biblical... hence, not really important.
Why strain at a gnat and not notice swallowing a camel?quote:
FurGod, I respectfully disagree. It DOES matter who is leading. If they are false teachers, you cannot believe them. If someone had a true repetence and turned to God under the leadership of Jim Jones, is that person "less saved" because of their leader? Of course not. As someone who has been to a couple different "Call" events, I know that the main thrust of them is getting people to repent for the sins of the nation. I don't care who the "leader" is, if we are repenting for our sins we are doing the Lord's work. How theologically accurate do you need to be if you message is "repent!"?
Adam
Adam,
You knew where this would go. Why would you even bother?
Earthless - I doubt there is more then a handful of pastors / teachers who are 100% correct in doctrine, if that......
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So Christ has really set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/17/2008 7:45:33 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PatHarris
Earthless - I doubt there is more then a handful of pastors / teachers who are 100% correct in doctrine, if that......
Correct on the CORE essentials of biblical Christianity? Yes, thank the Lord there are many. Secondary issues are an entirely different matter, good thing those are not items to divide over.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/17/2008 11:39:30 PM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 954
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quote:
Core essentials, Adam... Core essentials.
Many preachers out there are indeed teaching 100% sound doctrine on the core essentials. Intriguing... however, that isn't what we are arguing about here. As such, it is an irrelevant point.quote:
Please tell me, what do they plan to do with these new believers so they don't fall away after they repent?...How will they be discipled?
Oh, silly me, I know!...
They will be encouraged by The Call's staff to enroll in "The Call Institute" (which) "exists to equip, disciple and commission an emerging generation of radical Nazirites." Oh, and guess who the leaders are there?... Lou Engle, Allen Hood, Brent Steeno, all of whom are disciples of Mike Bickle (also a leader of The Call Institute) who formerly pastored the disgraced Kansas City Prophets and is a promoter of Latter Rain/Manifest Sons of God theology. Yes, we have a school that is dedicated to the principles behind The Call ministries. This is no different than a church starting a Christian school. Seeing as how TCI falls under the overarching banner of the International House of Prayer University, it makes sense that we would raise people up with our values of Intercession, Holiness, Offerings to the poor, and the Prophetic.
Yes, The Call is a ministerial partner of IHOP-KC... so?
Yes, Mike was involved with KCP... and I can't help but note the "Pavlov" type reaction to that moniker.
No, Mike Bickle does not promote the Manifest Sons of God doctrine. In fact, the man has specifically contradicted that position from the platform. So, once again, we are not arguing about reality.quote:
Say, Adam...as one who's been there, is there a "call" for personal repentance, as well?
I watched several hours of it (with a bottle of Maalox by my side) last month on GodTV (again...that bottle of Maalox), and saw no mention of personal repentance. The people there were encouraged to join black churches and adopt babies...that's it as far as anything "personal" that I saw. So... people repenting like Daniel did for the sins of their nation gave you indigestion? Or were you sitting too close to the television screen?
Considering that this is a gathering of Christians repenting on behalf of the nation, by making the guilt of the nation personal (ie, I'm American, I'm guilty of America's sins), I'm not entirely sure what it is that you are looking for. Is there a call for salvation? Not usually... why? Because it is a gathering of CHRISTIANS.quote:
I'm acquainted with people that have been to the two big Calls in DC and, in them, see a lot of what I saw on TV...1) blaming the World for everything bad and 2) not calling the Church to repentance. Biblical precedents??? They do blame the world... because it is the World's fault that the World is in the state it is. The point of intercession is to pray for Mercy and Justice. That is prayer 101.
The entire point of The Call is to call the church to repent on behalf of the nation. That sounds like calling the church to repent. So, once again, I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for.quote:
The messages I got from watching their "production" and doing my own research were that, as Christians, our job is to take over the government. Biblical precedents??? Not so. The job is that, as christians, we need to pray for righteousness to be established in the earth. Usually that means praying for Jesus to take over the government. As for a precedent? Revelation 19 and Revelation 22:17.quote:
Adam,
You knew where this would go. Why would you even bother? If it makes you feel better, consider me a glutton for punishment. Besides, taking part in discussions such as this make why I believe what I believe more concrete and teach me meekness and humility. Instead of calling everyone heretics that are "touching the Lord's anointed!", I get to give a soft answer and rationally explain why I believe what I do. In the end my opinion is stated, I've learned a little meekness, and I see the rationale behind why so many people hate what it is that I do.
quote:
Correct on the CORE essentials of biblical Christianity? Yes, thank the Lord there are many. Secondary issues are an entirely different matter, good thing those are not items to divide over. Question.......... so why do we?
Adam
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/17/2008 11:44:50 PM
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GroaningCreature
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Just wondering in regards to the ones in this thread who are making the bold stand to rid the church of false teachers, prophets, and apostles. Jeremiah, Micah, Paul, and the church fathers did have much to say. Biblically speaking I am referring to verses exegeted with proper hermeneutic how can one specfically label a false prophet/teacher/or apostle especially in light of Paul's statement in 1 Corinthians 13:9 in which he declares matter of factly that "We see in part and prophesy in part." Ergo this being a precedent because it is in a passage referring to church and body life and is specifically in regards to those who prophesy and administrate in the church body, what grounds are being brought against these men from:
Actual first hand experience from their ministries
Arguments other than online hearsay strings
Entire messages given from said person
Biblical response keeping in mind the parameters that Paul set up
Also I was wondering that if those who are so staunch on degrading these men actually have examples of those who are prophets/apostles/and teachers who fall under the line of correct leaders. I mean lets look at our church patriarchs such as David - one who murdered and comitted adultery; Augustine who filled the church with Gnostic thought; Luther a staunch antiSemite. Each one had significant contibutions to the understanding of theology today yet were not without their flaws.
Amidst the sea of conjecture, bias, and opinions could somebody with substantial theology (no prooftexting) actually demean these specific men and women.
Also if one is to be such a flagrant assaultant of these ministries might I ask if they even do believe in the prophetic and if so who, what, and where. What are the guidelines for modernday prophecy and if so running with the aforementioned paradigm set by Paul, mind you this was cannonized, and I would be gracious to listen.
I ask amidst the sleu of truthseekers and demagogues alike what are the proper parameters and with those can you actually biblically stand by it (keeping in mind the afore mentioned parameters which are necessary for any kind of scholastic debate less we sucumb to the trudgery of flippancy, hearsay, and ego.)
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/18/2008 1:53:21 AM
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GroaningCreature
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... might I add one more possible stipulation. Could I get a response from someone who has actually attended a Call event, ie. first hand experience (sound bytes do not count).
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/18/2008 8:33:39 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
quote:
Core essentials, Adam... Core essentials.
Many preachers out there are indeed teaching 100% sound doctrine on the core essentials. Intriguing... however, that isn't what we are arguing about here. As such, it is an irrelevant point.
It has everything to do with your assertions because you want to excuse false teachers and false prophets with the old tag line of, "well, no one's teachings are perfect..." when that is an incorrect argument to begin with.
We can indeed hold to the core essentials of biblical Christianity correctly.. and there are indeed public figures in Christian media that do hold to sound doctrine.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/18/2008 8:36:27 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6219
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroaningCreature
Just wondering in regards to the ones in this thread who are making the bold stand to rid the church of false teachers, prophets, and apostles. Jeremiah, Micah, Paul, and the church fathers did have much to say. Biblically speaking I am referring to verses exegeted with proper hermeneutic how can one specfically label a false prophet/teacher/or apostle especially in light of Paul's statement in 1 Corinthians 13:9 in which he declares matter of factly that "We see in part and prophesy in part." Ergo this being a precedent because it is in a passage referring to church and body life and is specifically in regards to those who prophesy and administrate in the church body, what grounds are being brought against these men from:
Actual first hand experience from their ministries
Arguments other than online hearsay strings
Entire messages given from said person
Biblical response keeping in mind the parameters that Paul set up
Also I was wondering that if those who are so staunch on degrading these men actually have examples of those who are prophets/apostles/and teachers who fall under the line of correct leaders. I mean lets look at our church patriarchs such as David - one who murdered and comitted adultery; Augustine who filled the church with Gnostic thought; Luther a staunch antiSemite. Each one had significant contibutions to the understanding of theology today yet were not without their flaws.
Amidst the sea of conjecture, bias, and opinions could somebody with substantial theology (no prooftexting) actually demean these specific men and women.
Also if one is to be such a flagrant assaultant of these ministries might I ask if they even do believe in the prophetic and if so who, what, and where. What are the guidelines for modernday prophecy and if so running with the aforementioned paradigm set by Paul, mind you this was cannonized, and I would be gracious to listen.
I ask amidst the sleu of truthseekers and demagogues alike what are the proper parameters and with those can you actually biblically stand by it (keeping in mind the afore mentioned parameters which are necessary for any kind of scholastic debate less we sucumb to the trudgery of flippancy, hearsay, and ego.)
We have done that and more in the plethora of threads that we have had here. Seriously, not trying to be flippant or short, but it is rather bothersome to read your post when several of us have several thousands of posts, countless hours of posting here documenting and doing what you seem to be saying has not been done.
Some of us have spent our entire lives and continue to do so - doing what your list (a good one by the way) is asking.
I hope you will find the time to check the other threads related to these topics to be useful and worthwhile. God bless.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/18/2008 11:19:02 AM
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Kat_D
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quote:
"touching the Lord's anointed!"
Boy, is anyone else but me tired of this ridiculous argument against those who speak out about leaders who do nothing but lead God's sheep astray?
Anyone can say they are God's anointed these days...does it make it so? Nope, I don't think so. Consider this:
There has been a clown car load of preachers who have exalted themselves and were referred to as "anointed" in the recent past and have had to step down in disgrace. Anointed? Anointed to do what exactly?...to corrupt, deceive, fleece the flock, and commit sexual sin prior to taking the stage to preach another gospel???
C'mon now! Think about it.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/18/2008 1:46:25 PM
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Soxfan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Anyone can say they are God's anointed these days...does it make it so? Nope, I don't think so. Consider this:
Thought you would get a kick out of this:
Fleecing the Flock for Fun and Profit
Some highlights:
Rule number one: Before embarking upon this enterprise of fleecing the flock for fun and profit, one must establish oneself as a special “Anointed” spokesperson for God. This can be accomplished in several ways.
a) Learn the official “Anointed” Christian buzzwords. You can begin with repeating the word “anointed” in your conversations, making sure that people recognize that you have this special anointing. (See Rule 3 for a more complete list of buzzwords.) Setting up people in the audience to be “healed” is a good way of gaining the flock’s confidence. However, make certain the affliction they are healed of is something that is not visible or something that can be medically verified. Headaches and other aches and pains are good to capitalize on. Make certain that you choose the people beforehand so they will not give away what is happening.
b) Establish yourself as a prophet from God by making a few predictions. It does not matter if they don’t come to pass because you can always claim it was their lack of faith as to why it did not come to pass. The secret to being successful is always to shift the blame back onto them when in a tight spot. Whatever you do, never ever accept responsibility for the lack of failed prophesies as this will taint your image and hinder the pursuit of fleecing the flock for fun and profit. You must also keep your flock from any passages in the Bible that say that a prophet must have 100% accuracy such as Deuteronomy 18. It will be necessary to steer them clear from such passages and remind them that all people are fallible. If you keep the focus on the fallible people, your flock will not notice that prophecies are supposed to come from God who is infallible.
c) If anyone challenges you as a prophet of God, remind them of the verse that says “touch not the anointed of God” and of the consequences of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Never mind that neither of these passages have anything to do with you or the situation. It will sound very spiritual if you say it to them with a very stern look on your face and a loud voice. It is essential that you use fear as often as possible to make sure the flock maintains its fear of you. Fear is a great tool to use that will enable you to continue to fleece the flock.
Rule number three: Parrot the buzz words that only the “anointed” use, such words as “Plead the blood of Jesus”.
It doesn’t matter that there is no precedence in the Bible for this phrase. It sounds spiritual so use this phrase often. Repeated often enough, this makes it sound like there is some magical ingredient in the blood of Jesus and puts it on the same level as holy water, incense, burning of candles and wearing the cross that protects the believing flock. (These previous items can also be sold for profit, if they are “anointed”.)
· “Satan, I come against you in the name of Jesus.”
· “Satan, I bind you in the name of Jesus.”
· “Satan, I cast you out in the name of Jesus.”
· “Satan, I command you back into the pit of hell in Jesus name.”
· “Satan, I rebuke you in the name of Jesus.”
(Remember to emphasize the word “I”. This keeps the focus on you as the one who has the power to do these things.
b) More suggested buzz words and phrases:
· Claim, Confess, and Demand healing in the name of Jesus are good ones that draw attention to your anointing. Once again, the more arrogant you are, the more "anointed" you will appear to them.
· “Hallelujah, Praise the Lord , Glory and Amen”. (Repeat over and over and for added emphasis, a loud whistle at times is good. The louder the better to let them hear your anointing.)
· “Glory bumps” and “Holy Ghost Giggles” are cute ones to throw in at times. This lets them see the “joy of the Lord” in you. If you ever are overcome with laughter at how easy it is to fleece your flock, just claim it is “holy laughter” and they will all join in with you (which can cause you to laugh even harder, but no worry, they will laugh harder with you all the way to the bank).
· Singing, Dancing, Speaking and Walking in the Spirit are sure fire “anointed” words that will be noticed.
c) Seed faith. This term indicates that they are planting a seed of faith and will reap a harvest of money because of it. Using this idea, you can get people to send you large amounts of money with the promise that they will receive a hundredfold back. People are greedy by nature and the lure of a promise of receiving thousands of dollars back is a powerful enticement. (But make certain you keep them from seeing Mark 10:29-30 because you don't want to give them any hint that persecutions might also come their way. Keep them from any idea that the lifestyle you are promoting might some day cause them any discomfort.) Also, this provides you with an excellent opportunity to use guilt and intimidation to coerce people into sending you these large "love offerings." Obviously, if they are not willing to send you this type of "love offering" then they do not have enough "faith" to plant. Accusing them of a lack of faith if they do not send you money in this way is highly effective and will assure you of a profitable ministry for many future years.
Summary:
Remember that the corrupt nature of man is to seek after fame and fortune for themselves at the exclusion of others. You can be assured of a following as long as you continue to offer them the possibility of riches and power. Keeping this in mind, continue to appeal to the corrupt nature of man and spiritualize it by suggesting that the things they desire are the same things that God desires for them. Often repeat the phrases such as: “God desires for you to be rich, healthy and happy above everything else.” Avoid people who claim that spiritual maturity is more important in God’s eyes than financial success. Keep your flock from these types. They can be very devastating to your ministry.
If the flock lacks in anything, use intimidation and fear to keep them intact. This tactic assures the continuation of your own financial well-being. Remind them that if they lack in any of these things, it is their lack of faith that is preventing these “blessings” from God coming to pass.
Remember, you must walk the talk to retain credibility. This means, never ever mention that you may have a cold, may not be happy or may be struggling with finances. To make this mistake would be a sure fire way of destroying the flock fleecing ministry. You are the example of all that God wants for them and to show any signs of human weakness would undermine all that you have hoped to accomplish. Illusion is everything.
If you have those who start feeling like they want to leave, make a quick move to use fear and guilt to keep them in your flock. One tactic that is very effective is to threaten them with loss of their salvation if they leave. Also, threaten their children by saying that if they leave, their children will pay for their lack of faith. This is a good way of keeping them in line since most of them love their children very much.
This handbook is offered for free, however, a love offering would be greatly appreciated. Sending a “love” offering of 100 dollars would put you well on the way because you know that your "seed faith" will force God will give you a hundred fold in return for doing so. (wink, wink)
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"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/18/2008 5:29:53 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6219
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
That said, I do believe that many valid pastors/churches have jumped on The Call train without knowing fully what is at the root of the movement they are backing. They should have done their homework!
And to add to that - I do believe many sincere born-again believers attend these gatherings.. but again we get back to the problem of the leadership and possible teachings interjected throughout the conferences and materials.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/18/2008 6:22:20 PM
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GroaningCreature
Posts: 3
Joined: 9/17/2008
Status: offline
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Sorry I'm new. I'm glad to hear that this isn't just conjecture. I'll go looking through threads and get a better view where you all are coming from. I'll be back.
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RE: What do you think of TheCall - 9/18/2008 7:14:05 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2179
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
If someone had a true repetence and turned to God under the leadership of Jim Jones, is that person "less saved" because of their leader? Of course not.
I met someone who got saved listening to Jim Jones. I know someone who has been a faithful servant in her churches for decades that went to a couple of his get togethers. Obviously, they didn't drink the Kool-Aid. :P
quote:
whom are disciples of Mike Bickle (also a leader of The Call Institute) who formerly pastored the disgraced Kansas City Prophets and is a promoter of Latter Rain/Manifest Sons of God theology.
They specifically reject at IHOP what I just highlighted. I have never met anyone who lived to witness and tell the Latter Rain and mentioned or believed the MSoG. I have never met anyone who went to a church that keeps being mislabled as "Latter Rain" (since the LR ended decades ago just like we're not all "Pentecostals" even though every single one of us traces the Holy Spirit to the Day of Pentecost in Acts). I don't understand why this keeps getting all of the attention it does when there are even some "heresy/deception sites" that say this is almost universally rejected by charismatics which I even linked to in a thread about a month ago.
quote:
The entire point of The Call is to call the church to repent on behalf of the nation. That sounds like calling the church to repent. So, once again, I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for.
2 Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. (NIV)
I think this is a great idea a free get together of believers to pray for the nation. I can fellowship with other believers and christians even when I don't particularly agree with whoever is speaking. Since Thecall never releases who is going to speak anyway you never know whether or not the speaker will have that anointing that Sox mentioned. :P
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-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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