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Stephanos -> RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread (10/16/2008 11:26:21 PM)
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First off, if you are going to go down the "culture" road, then you should be prepared to realize that for women 1st generational Christianity, that is the apostles generation, was the most the most FREEING that women during that era and culture faced. There is a reason that if you look at places like Timothy's parents (mother believer, father not) you see often that women in the church greatly out numbered the men (Acts 6...It was not just a few of the widows were being overlooked, why do you think the appointing of Deacons was so important). There was a freedom in Christ Jesus that the Roman Pantheon or what ever the view was in their part of the Roman empire did not give them. Furthermore, Christian's were teaching Christ Crusified. In the first century that was a major major issue that non-believers had. How did Paul put it again? To the Jew a stumbling block, to the Gentile foolishness. This was not some new theology, this was a world shaking theology. The cross at this time was a vile thing to this culture. And here these new Christians were saying that the savior of the world DIED on a cross. No true savior would DIE on a cross. But it got worse, not only were these people saying the Savior DIED on a CROSS (that vile symbol) but He also AROSE from the DEAD. Talk about culture shattering theology. You see, 1st Century Christianity was all about shattering cultural norms. Both for the Jews AND the Greeks. They were teaching a Savior crusified and risen. If it really was God's will to allow women to be pastors, then He would have done so here because He was shattering every other cultural norm that existed at the time. The fact that God through Paul said specifically that women could not teach, was for a very specific, non cultural reason. And simply put it was not God's will.
Furthermore, if you want to get technical, contrary to popular egaltarian belief about "temple prostitutes", in the Roman Pantheon women that did serve as Priestesses were HIGHLY respected. Just like any priest. Romans did not look at the gender of the person serving their gods, they saw the people they needed to go to, to please their gods. In fact some Roman gods had entirely female priestesses, and they were NOT sexual objects in the temple either. In someways God through Paul's limitation to elders/deacons/ect being male only was a slap against a culture where women priestesses WERE used.
As for the silent in church, this verse is nearly always taken so far out of context it is not even funny. So I will ask a simple question, why, even in the "culture" of the 1st Century, did God through Paul say this? Here is a hint read the section of text before and after this verse in 1st Corinthians. Notice something that seems to be connecting all these verses. Something along the lines of proper order in the church. You see the Corinthians were doing things OTHER than worshiping God when they came together. If you look at 1st Timothy, Paul speaks strongly at gossip. Look at the church today, in most churches when the pastor is speaking, what are some people (almost always women) doing while the pastor is speeking? Talking among eachother, gossiping about things going on, doing everything BUT focusing ont he word of God. Now imagine you are in a SMALL group of believers, like during the 1st century. WHen people met in the small areas of their HOUSE to have fellowship together. If anyone was speaking out of turn, or whispering between another, it was noticed by the whole group and it disrupted the time. Women were told to be silent because for the most part it was women disrupting the service. Frankly when God calls me to the pastorship, I will have a very low tolerance for people chatting in the back row. Either they stop or they leave. And this is exactly what Paul was saying.
Furthermore, in terms of "speaking in church", Paul himself makes several references to women serving in the churches, and obviously speaking. So the quesiton is how do YOU mesh these two ideas. Even if what Paul said was cultural, saying women can not speak in church, and at the smae time praising women who obviously were, is double speak. How do you mesh that? Well it shows that your interpretation and understanding of what paul is saying is flawed.
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