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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 9/25/2005 5:19:30 PM
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neuronstatic
Posts: 945
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From: North Carolina!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: oopsmartin
there is no one here who is against submission of the wives to husbands. But there are some who note that verse 21 shows that both husband AND wife are included as believers who are to submit one to another in the fear of the Lord. Pauls pointing out to wives that this submission does not stop at the door to their home and pointing out to husbands that sacrificial love does not stop at the door to their home, does not negate the commands are to all believers as well.
In post #106 you said:
quote:
ORIGINAL: oopsmartin
Authority in social structures is and always will be a cultural issue. You saying that husband and wife are not equal in authority in the marital relationship would certainly fit into most cultural takes on how marriages are structured throughout the world. It just isn’t addressed in Scripture other than to say that both husband and wife have authority over each other’s body. That would be equal authority.
There is one Bible translation that chooses to translate “kephale” as "authority", but it is an interpretive translation since the word has nothing to do with authority and theire is indeed a word meaning authority, exousia.
The only valid use of authoritative directions from a husband to a wife would be to save her life in some emergency. That falls under the husbands responsibilities to love their wives as their own body nurturing and cherishing her, in a similar way that the Lord gave His very life in order to bring us spiritual life. The comparison is one of dedication, devotion, committment, as no man can expect that he can do the same things that Christ did and does, nor does Scripture expect him to.
So I thought that IS what you said in that post, there is no hierarchy of authority in the marriage. Please clarify your position. Do you believer there is a hierarchy of authority in a marriage with the wife subject to, i.e. in submission to, the husband. Please bear in mind, that this does not in any way eliminate any of the following:
- The husband is required to be a servant leader and mimic Christ
- ALL believers are to be subject to one another as members of the body
- Men and women are of equal worth and equal status before God
But what the scriptures do say is that it is much more than "authoritative directions from a husband to a wife would be to save her life in some emergency". But it also does NOT say that a husband should ever be a tyrant.
_____________________________
Click here for an example of God blessing a man with a second chance at marriage in a new wife.
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 9/25/2005 8:52:10 PM
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write2witness
Posts: 52
Joined: 6/29/2005
From: Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HC
It doesn't seem to me that the opportunity existed in that culture for a woman to do much else anyway. Though of course we have Ruth who worked in the fields - so there must have been lots of menial tasks. Does this mean good Christian women were to refuse this type of work, even if thier families were poor. That idea just doesn't sit right with me.
Times change, but the Word of God remains the same.
- w2w
_____________________________
I lay down and slept; I awoke, for the Lord sustained me. (Psalm 3:5)
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 9/26/2005 1:27:56 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 7679
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrsLT
I have four years left. I haven't asked about getting out. It's extremely hard to get out. I know there are benefits, the military is great if you want to be here. If not, its like prison. I am not really afraid to lose the benefits, its basically the same as welfare benefite. Free health care (Meicaid), free housing (Section 8) We could definantly survive without them. I wake up everyday praying that God would take over and handle this situation because I feel so powerless. He has blessed me with a great husband who keeps my spirits up but I worry about us. I'm not there after he gets home from work to cook dinner or give him physical affection. And it gets worse when we go on 6 and 7 month deployments. WHAT WAS I THINKING? I need your advice and prayers
P.S. Where would be a good place to move this thread?
I suggest starting something in the Careers folder instead of discussing this further in the Women's roles thread.
Thanks!
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2005 12:12:25 PM
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holloway
Posts: 4
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From: Back home again...in Indiana
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I personaly believe closest to the book Created to be his helpmeet (helper). I think that the concept that we are all equal is silly and falacious. The false concept of equality has done more to hurt relationships than any other thing IMHO. Of course we are not all equal, far from it. Some are smarter, some are stronger, some are rich, some are poor, some are presidents and have great authority, others have no authority etc, etc. I can have babies, my DFH cant, he can lift a bale of hay over his head I cant--we are not equal. I believe I am to submit myself to his authority and he will answer to God. I agree we are equally valued in the sight of God but I believe that I have a well defined role in a male female relationship and that is to serve God by serving my husband. My DFH is also called to sacrifice himself for me. People are imperfect, but I believe that is Gods plan that we submit to a certain order both in the church, in government, in society, and in the home. I really dont care what society thinks about me weather they think I am un-equal, I want to live a life pleasing to God not to man. We submit to Gods order not because it is all fun and games at times but because it is GODs order for His glory not mine.
_____________________________
Hi, My name is AMber. I am 19, I'm studying accounting/business and am Married-Married yes I am!!! (oct 15)
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2005 12:40:02 PM
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floydette
Posts: 1084
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quote:
ORIGINAL: holloway
I believe I am to submit myself to his authority and he will answer to God.
holloway,
This kinda sounded alittle like you weren't going to be held responsible for your actions, if you are under him.
Rememeber, you will answer to God as well. You husband won't be held responsible for anything that you agreed to do, even if "led" you there. You are responsible for your actions.
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2005 10:36:51 PM
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BCMOM
Posts: 49
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I believe we are to submit unless it goes contrary to scripture. I have agreed to submit to things I didn't like, and the Lord has provided a way out. But the way out came AFTER my willingness to submit. I am not talking about submission to things contrary to God. You don't always get a way out of course, The Lord might be using that situation to refine YOU  .
Laurie
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2005 11:06:01 PM
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hnt
Posts: 530
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
I think that the concept that we are all equal is silly and falacious. The false concept of equality has done more to hurt relationships than any other thing IMHO. Of course we are not all equal, far from it. Some are smarter, some are stronger, some are rich, some are poor, some are presidents and have great authority, others have no authority etc, etc. I can have babies, my DFH cant, he can lift a bale of hay over his head I cant--we are not equal.
In the eyes of God we are all equal. God acknowleges the differences between people. LOL it would be boring situtation if we were all the same! We are all different and unquie. We all have strength and weakness - but we are all just as equal in the eyes of the Lord. He doesn't look to WHO can lift the bale of hay and who can't! He doesn't care who is rich, poor, who has authority and who doesn't. He could care less if you can have a baby or if you can't! That is meaningless to him. He wants YOU with all your flaws! You wants you will all YOUR assets! He wants YOU, and he wishes you to want him in the same fashsion! LOL even tho he knows you can't, and loves you anyway! TO COOL!!! That is AWESOME! - I know to general here! 
floydette has a good point! You in the end are accountabile for your actions! LOL saying but my husband TOLD me to - lol doesn't count! If your man is a man of honor you will want and wish to submit! If you know he is doing wrong - and you say nothing because of submission - LOL that ain't going to fly!
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2005 9:32:51 AM
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holloway
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From: Back home again...in Indiana
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I agree I am to submit to my husband unless he goes contrary to scripture or contrary to a multitude of wise christian witnesses.
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Hi, My name is AMber. I am 19, I'm studying accounting/business and am Married-Married yes I am!!! (oct 15)
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2005 11:10:18 AM
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BCMOM
Posts: 49
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Holloway, good point about the multitude of wise witnesses!
Laurie
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2005 3:27:27 PM
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Coheir
Posts: 122
Joined: 4/13/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BCMOM
I believe we are to submit unless it goes contrary to scripture. I have agreed to submit to things I didn't like, and the Lord has provided a way out. But the way out came AFTER my willingness to submit. I am not talking about submission to things contrary to God. You don't always get a way out of course, The Lord might be using that situation to refine YOU .
Laurie
I submit to my husband ... and my husband submits to me. The bible is quite clear that all believers should submit to one another, and mutual submission has bless us and our marriage greatly for our 18+ years of marriage.
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2005 6:45:15 PM
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BCMOM
Posts: 49
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Praise God for your 18+ years of marriage! The scripture you quote refers to fellow believers. What do you do about the other scriptures directed to wives that have been quoted previously? And also, if you don't mind sharing, how do you come to decisions if you are in a deadlock??
Congratulations on the first 18 years, I'm sure you look forward to many more.
God bless you and your husband.
Laurie
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2005 8:42:06 PM
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Coheir
Posts: 122
Joined: 4/13/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BCMOM
Praise God for your 18+ years of marriage! The scripture you quote refers to fellow believers.
Are husbands and wives not believers? In Eph 5:22, when wives are told to submit to husbands, the word "submit" does not even appear. It is borrowed directly from Eph 5:21, which makes it one continuous thought (most translations put a section break here, but it's really not appropriate). Wives submitting to husbands is but one example of the submission all believers are to model - and husbands are not exempt from the group of "all believers."
quote:
What do you do about the other scriptures directed to wives that have been quoted previously?
Wives are to submit to their husbands. That is not in dispute. But Eph 5:21 also make it clear that as believers, husbands are to submit to other believers - and wives are not excluded from this class! Husbands are told to love sacrificially -- but so are we all told that, in other parts of the NT. Just because a husband or wife is specifically singled out does not mean that the other spouse is "exempt" from that responsibility when it is mentioned elsewhere in the Bible for something all believers should be doing.
quote:
And also, if you don't mind sharing, how do you come to decisions if you are in a deadlock??
We have approached it several ways over the years. At first, it was more common for us to simply pray, talk, and wait on the Lord to make it clear. We simply did not move on the decision until we had unity. As we grew together in marriage, we've moved more into a pattern of if the deadlocked decision is something that one of us is more affected by, or has more expertise in, then we go with what that person prefers or recommends. (That's not to say we don't pray and talk; we do, but we are faster at figuring out who really should have the stronger voice in the decision.) I am much better at handling both the day to day finances and the long term investments. DH is much better at choosing vehicles for the family. That kind of thing. Leadership and decision making in our marriage is really a very fluid, relaxed, organic kind of thing ... but this is after 18 years. The first few, there was a whole lot more talking until we reached agreement. 
quote:
Congratulations on the first 18 years, I'm sure you look forward to many more. God willing. It just gets better and better.
quote:
God bless you and your husband.
Thank you. He has, greatly. We are very thankful. We know everyone does not have as easy a time of marriage as we do.
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2005 11:14:14 PM
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BCMOM
Posts: 49
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This is likely one of those things where you and I just aren't on the same page. I'm sure you already know all the verses I could refer to, and I'm pretty sure I understand where you're coming from too. I'm willing to bet that this issue has been hashed and rehashed here, and pretty much everywhere else too.
I appreciate the loving way you have responded to my posts.I don't believe this is a salvation issue, and certainly not worth devision.
I can pretty much guarantee from your what you have shared that you have a hubby that loves andrespects you tremendously also. On the flip side I think I man can deeply love and respect his wife in a situation where she is submitted to him.
In our situation, my husband is very happy to delegate certain responsibilites and decisiond to me where he sees my strengths.
He respects me and takes into consideration what I have to say. Ultimately I rest in the assurance that I believe I am pleasing the Lord with my submission, just as I believe it is pleasing to the the Lord that my husband doesn't abuse his authority. I'm sure you feel the same way about the arrangement between you and your husband.
I read something really funny that I hope lightens the tone of this post.
An American women was walking in the jungle of a tropical country with a woman of aboriginal descent. The American woman was unsettled by the fact that the Aboriginal woman walked several feet behind her husband. When the American woman questioned her about this she replied, "Well if I walked in the front then who would kill the snakes??!!"
Take care.
Laurie
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/4/2005 10:04:19 AM
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Coheir
Posts: 122
Joined: 4/13/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BCMOM
This is likely one of those things where you and I just aren't on the same page. I'm sure you already know all the verses I could refer to, and I'm pretty sure I understand where you're coming from too. I'm willing to bet that this issue has been hashed and rehashed here, and pretty much everywhere else too.
I appreciate the loving way you have responded to my posts.I don't believe this is a salvation issue, and certainly not worth devision.
I can pretty much guarantee from your what you have shared that you have a hubby that loves andrespects you tremendously also. On the flip side I think I man can deeply love and respect his wife in a situation where she is submitted to him.
In our situation, my husband is very happy to delegate certain responsibilites and decisiond to me where he sees my strengths.
He respects me and takes into consideration what I have to say. Ultimately I rest in the assurance that I believe I am pleasing the Lord with my submission, just as I believe it is pleasing to the the Lord that my husband doesn't abuse his authority. I'm sure you feel the same way about the arrangement between you and your husband.
I read something really funny that I hope lightens the tone of this post.
An American women was walking in the jungle of a tropical country with a woman of aboriginal descent. The American woman was unsettled by the fact that the Aboriginal woman walked several feet behind her husband. When the American woman questioned her about this she replied, "Well if I walked in the front then who would kill the snakes??!!"
Take care.
Laurie
In our marriage, I always request that hubby kill the snakes, and he submits to that request. In fact, he killed a 5 foot long (shudder!) black snake in our very ordinary suburban backyard this summer. (I still get the willies thinking about it).
Nice chattin' with ya, Laurie. God bless.
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/4/2005 8:53:36 PM
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Shugs
Posts: 30
Joined: 8/4/2005
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Holloway-
IN other words, you submit when you agree with him? How is that submitting? I think alot of people pay alot of lip service to the submitting issue but they don't really believe in it. If you feel that the bible says that as a wife you submit to your husband and he will answer for it, where do you get the limitations from? Sounds to me like you are not submitting but making joint decisions and calling it submitting. Well, if that's what floats your boat so be it.
peace and love
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/5/2005 10:56:54 AM
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neuronstatic
Posts: 945
Joined: 7/14/2005
From: North Carolina!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2cappucinosmom
Submitting to God first, then hubby still means we submit to hubby at times when we disagree with him. It's only when he is requiring us to sin that we are free to say 'I can't submit to that'.
As far as equality goes--we are certainly equal in our value to God. But we are by no means the same.
Amen! What she said. She nailed it.
_____________________________
Click here for an example of God blessing a man with a second chance at marriage in a new wife.
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/5/2005 11:38:56 AM
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BCMOM
Posts: 49
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Amen here too. Laurie
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/5/2005 11:40:32 AM
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floydette
Posts: 1084
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2cappucinosmom
Shugs, since I know the book Amber was saying she agrees with I think you may have misread her.
Submitting to God first, then hubby still means we submit to hubby at times when we disagree with him. It's only when he is requiring us to sin that we are free to say 'I can't submit to that'.
As far as equality goes--we are certainly equal in our value to God. But we are by no means the same.
So, just a question to throw out there....
If the husband is operating under a spirit of control, should the wife be submitting to that? That would be bowing down to a spirit of control, vs the Spirit of God. Thoughts?
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/5/2005 11:43:00 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4986
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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Are you talking about a demon?
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/5/2005 12:12:24 PM
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floydette
Posts: 1084
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No, I am saying someone operating under the influence of an evil spirit. Simply said, making a choice to be controlling. That is operating under the little voice in your head that says it is good to be good to be controlling.....
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/5/2005 12:16:19 PM
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neuronstatic
Posts: 945
Joined: 7/14/2005
From: North Carolina!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: floydette
If the husband is operating under a spirit of control, should the wife be submitting to that? That would be bowing down to a spirit of control, vs the Spirit of God. Thoughts?
Ah, you bring up an exception right? Looking for exceptions to the general rule? Ok, maybe if the husband is demon possessed or controlling there is a reasonable assertion that she should not submit to him if he tells her to do something contrary to God's word. But she still must submit if there is no violation to God's word. This is because she is to submit to an unbelieving husband who is ultimately serving the prince of the power of the air - satan. And even if he is controlling you must submit. But if he is abusive, well there are other principles to apply.
But really, if you are looking at demon possession or a controlling nature as a way to shatter the rule of submission, you have come to the wrong God. Exceptions, possibly, but only when they contradict God.
_____________________________
Click here for an example of God blessing a man with a second chance at marriage in a new wife.
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/5/2005 12:16:34 PM
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InquiringMindSJ
Posts: 925
Joined: 8/31/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: floydette
quote:
ORIGINAL: holloway
I believe I am to submit myself to his authority and he will answer to God.
holloway,
This kinda sounded alittle like you weren't going to be held responsible for your actions, if you are under him.
Rememeber, you will answer to God as well. You husband won't be held responsible for anything that you agreed to do, even if "led" you there. You are responsible for your actions.
I believe that when a husband answers to God, he is answering for his leadership or lack of leadership to his family; was the man a good servant leader like Christ was for the Church. When wives go to heaven, they answer for their response to their husbands leadership.
If a man is truly a servant leader and loves his wife like Christ loves the church, the wife should have no trouble or issues with submitting.
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