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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/16/2008 1:03:04 PM
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backrowbaptist
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
I'm also assuming you're a longtime loyal Republican whose party left him, and became too extreme?
Wishful thinking, 'drift. Conservatives abandoned the party because it became too moderate, with Bush signing every spending bill the GOP congress sent him, and then dissing them in the immigration amnesty debate, not to mention sticking with Rumsfeld until the day after the party got thumped in the '06 elections.
McCain finally realized he can't win without Christian conservatives, so he got smart and selected Palin. The hysteria on the secular left only validates it.
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/16/2008 1:08:21 PM
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P31W
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quote:
I'm not going to pretend I understand the black church, I don't think any of us do. But are you saying that black people can't be Christians? That they can't take messages from the Gospels and apply them to their own lives and struggles? It's easy to look down on people who are different then you, but I've learned not to be so quick to judge my brothers and sisters in Christ.
And anyway, it's not like Obama just blindly follows everything his pastor says. How many of you blindly follow your pastors?
Again you are saying that Black Liberation Theology as professed by James Cones and Obama is Christians theology. Unless you "know" what that theology is I think it would be wise of your to reframe from calling it Christian.
This has nothing to do with the Black Chruch..........MOST ALL blacks reject this theology as false.
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/16/2008 1:41:49 PM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
He's not. Unless you actually think he can compete against Russ Feingold and Bernie Sanders. Which he can't.
Well, no, he actually does appear the most liberal Senator for 2007.
Hmm...
Overall in NJ's 2007 ratings, Obama voted the liberal position on 65 of the 66 key votes on which he voted; Clinton voted the liberal position 77 of 82 times.
Wait, so he took the liberal position less frequently than Clinton did. I'm betting there were a few senators who weren't on the campaign trail who showed up to vote even more.
That rating system is worthless for anything but a soundbite.
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/16/2008 1:45:11 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7785
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
Hmm...
Overall in NJ's 2007 ratings, Obama voted the liberal position on 65 of the 66 key votes on which he voted; Clinton voted the liberal position 77 of 82 times.
Wait, so he took the liberal position less frequently than Clinton did. I'm betting there were a few senators who weren't on the campaign trail who showed up to vote even more.
That rating system is worthless for anything but a soundbite.
You are familiar with the mathematical term 'percentage', correct?
Do you have a better means by which we are to evaluate the political inclinations of a candidate?
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/16/2008 2:04:09 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 766
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Hmm...
Overall in NJ's 2007 ratings, Obama voted the liberal position on 65 of the 66 key votes on which he voted; Clinton voted the liberal position 77 of 82 times.
Wait, so he took the liberal position less frequently than Clinton did. I'm betting there were a few senators who weren't on the campaign trail who showed up to vote even more.
That rating system is worthless for anything but a soundbite.
You are familiar with the mathematical term 'percentage', correct?
Do you have a better means by which we are to evaluate the political inclinations of a candidate?
Yes. Researching the candidate is far more fruitful.
What is the impetus to use a percentage*? And why that percentage? The National Journal used 99 "key senate votes". Why isn't Barack 66/99 and Hillary 77/99? Perhaps, given the upcoming election and a need to appeal to his base, he just didn't show up to vote against his party. Rather, he did show up for the decisive stuff where his party needed him.
*I blame baseball.
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/16/2008 2:06:58 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
Yes. Researching the candidate is far more fruitful.
What is the impetus to use a percentage*? And why that percentage? The National Journal used 99 "key senate votes". Why isn't Barack 66/99 and Hillary 77/99? Perhaps, given the upcoming election and a need to appeal to his base, he just didn't show up to vote against his party. Rather, he did show up for the decisive stuff where his party needed him.
*I blame baseball.
Well presumably a fair comparison would compare the same sets of votes, which it appears they did, as much as they could with Obama missing a third of them.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/16/2008 2:24:07 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 766
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Yes. Researching the candidate is far more fruitful.
What is the impetus to use a percentage*? And why that percentage? The National Journal used 99 "key senate votes". Why isn't Barack 66/99 and Hillary 77/99? Perhaps, given the upcoming election and a need to appeal to his base, he just didn't show up to vote against his party. Rather, he did show up for the decisive stuff where his party needed him.
*I blame baseball.
Well presumably a fair comparison would compare the same sets of votes, which it appears they did, as much as they could with Obama missing a third of them.
Considering his past rankings of 10th and 16th, I think those are far more likely an accurate picture of his effective liberalness, as it were. Considering that others have voted the liberal position more, I have a hard time figuring out why I should buy into this analysis as opposed to one that involves, say, some other numbers. Or better yet, actual research on my part.
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/16/2008 2:29:36 PM
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backrowbaptist
Posts: 387
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Hmm...
Overall in NJ's 2007 ratings, Obama voted the liberal position on 65 of the 66 key votes on which he voted; Clinton voted the liberal position 77 of 82 times.
Wait, so he took the liberal position less frequently than Clinton did. I'm betting there were a few senators who weren't on the campaign trail who showed up to vote even more.
That rating system is worthless for anything but a soundbite.
You are familiar with the mathematical term 'percentage', correct?
Do you have a better means by which we are to evaluate the political inclinations of a candidate?
Yes. Researching the candidate is far more fruitful.
What is the impetus to use a percentage*? And why that percentage? The National Journal used 99 "key senate votes". Why isn't Barack 66/99 and Hillary 77/99? Perhaps, given the upcoming election and a need to appeal to his base, he just didn't show up to vote against his party. Rather, he did show up for the decisive stuff where his party needed him.
*I blame baseball.
Is it against the TOS to say DUH!?
Obama only voted on 66 out of the 99! The percentage is 65/66! 98.5%. Clinton 77/82 = 94%. Yeesh!
This just affirms the argument about his lack of experience. He was in the Senate for just two years, and has been campaigning for president the last two years instead of representing the state that sent him there.
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/16/2008 2:34:41 PM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
Obama only voted on 66 out of the 99! The percentage is 65/66! 98.5%. Clinton 77/82 = 94%.
I'm not seeing how this makes him more liberal than people who voted the liberal position more.
Update: From that same link:
Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., the only other senator whose presidential candidacy survived the initial round of primaries and caucuses this year, did not vote frequently enough in 2007 to draw a composite score.
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/16/2008 2:39:21 PM
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Jhud
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
Considering his past rankings of 10th and 16th, I think those are far more likely an accurate picture of his effective liberalness, as it were. Considering that others have voted the liberal position more, I have a hard time figuring out why I should buy into this analysis as opposed to one that involves, say, some other numbers. Or better yet, actual research on my part.
Actually, I think the trend was 16 - 10 - 1. That would seem to mean he is a very ambituous liberal.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/16/2008 3:18:37 PM
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rhippie
Posts: 628
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From: Rich The Hippie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
He's not. Unless you actually think he can compete against Russ Feingold and Bernie Sanders. Which he can't.
Well, no, he actually does appear the most liberal Senator for 2007.
Hmm...
Overall in NJ's 2007 ratings, Obama voted the liberal position on 65 of the 66 key votes on which he voted; Clinton voted the liberal position 77 of 82 times.
Wait, so he took the liberal position less frequently than Clinton did. I'm betting there were a few senators who weren't on the campaign trail who showed up to vote even more.
That rating system is worthless for anything but a soundbite.
Let's see....Obama voted 65 out of 66 times for the liberal position. That equates to a 98.48%
Clinton voted 77 out of 82 times. That equates to a 93.9%
Yep! Obama has the higher liberal percentage
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Stand up for what's right....even if you're standing alone
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/16/2008 3:20:42 PM
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rhippie
Posts: 628
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From: Rich The Hippie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
Perhaps, given the upcoming election and a need to appeal to his base, he just didn't show up to vote against his party.
Sounds to me as if, since he could not support his party he chose not to do his duty and vote his conscience; just what we need....someone afraid to take a stand
_____________________________
Stand up for what's right....even if you're standing alone
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/16/2008 3:22:24 PM
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rhippie
Posts: 628
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From: Rich The Hippie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
I have a hard time figuring out why I should buy into this analysis as opposed to one that involves, say, some other numbers. Or better yet, actual research on my part.
What actual research on your part other than the stats concerning the voting percentage which you promply dismissed when called on it?
_____________________________
Stand up for what's right....even if you're standing alone
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/16/2008 7:10:34 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: YeshuaWeCan
I don't agree with Obama about abortion, but he is a Christian, and he has been much more honest than John McCain has, so I believe him when he says he wants to work together with us to make abortions rarer.
He's not a Christian...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/16/2008 7:14:36 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: YeshuaWeCan
I'm not going to pretend I understand the black church, I don't think any of us do. But are you saying that black people can't be Christians? That they can't take messages from the Gospels and apply them to their own lives and struggles? It's easy to look down on people who are different then you, but I've learned not to be so quick to judge my brothers and sisters in Christ.
A church that recognizes same sex unions isn't a Christian church... Period...
quote:
And anyway, it's not like Obama just blindly follows everything his pastor says. How many of you blindly follow your pastors?
Until it looked to interfere with his bid for the White House Obama was neck deep in a apostate church...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/16/2008 7:18:01 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
You forgot something...
since he's a public figure...
I don't follow you. Brad Pitt is a public figure who--if you'll forgive me for going there--has probably had a good deal of oral sex. I don't know when, I don't know where, because it has not been publicized. I do not know this because public figures have private lives，MTV's The Real World notwithstanding. Tabloid journalism, and in Clinton's case, tabloid politics, is what brings these otherwise private matters to the fore.
Bill Clinton is a public figure... No way around that... And the root cause of his problem is himself...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/16/2008 7:28:16 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: YeshuaWeCan
quote:
Sure, Jesus suffered the same struggles and temptations that all humans do; but there is no specific theology that applies to one racial group - indeed, the gospel is antithetical to race based distinctions.
Are we talking about the black race or a certain kind of black culture?
The Gospel is for all cultures, but when you are witnessing don't you tailor what you're saying to the specific lives of the people you're talking to, so it's more relevant to them? Look at how Paul wrote his letters. Each letter is tailored for the specific culture he's writing to. He writes the Galatians to warn them about trusting too much in the Law, but he writes the Corinthians to warn them about following pagan ideas. Each letter addresses specific issues that each community is facing. And while it would be nice if all communities in the world were united and faced the same struggles, I don't think we should fault Christians like the worshippers at Trinity for tailoring their message to their own community.
Actually we can since Paul never said to any church okie dokie on same sex unions... Preaching racial hatred(Blacks can hate whites)... The white man is the devil... The church Obama attended for 20 years isn't Christian. There may be Christians there, as there may be Christians at Wal-Mart...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/16/2008 10:19:56 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 766
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Bill Clinton is a public figure...
Are you saying that public figures have sex in public?
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/16/2008 10:55:38 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Bill Clinton is a public figure...
Are you saying that public figures have sex in public?
I don't believe I mentioned Paul Reubens...
This may help... It's ok, you don't have to thank me :)
Public figure
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Public figure is a legal term applied in the context of defamation actions (libel and slander) as well as invasion of privacy. A public figure (such as a politician, celebrity, or business leader) cannot base a lawsuit on incorrect harmful statements unless there is proof that the writer or publisher acted with malice (knowledge or reckless disregard for the truth). The burden of proof is higher in the case of a public figure.
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/16/2008 11:08:56 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 766
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In that case, I'm not sure what his public-figureness has to do with everyone being exposed to his otherwise private escapades, be they ignoble or otherwise.
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/16/2008 11:43:32 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
In that case, I'm not sure what his public-figureness has to do with everyone being exposed to his otherwise private escapades, be they ignoble or otherwise.
As I already stated many of his private escapades were on company time... He only has himself to blame... He wasn't the victim in anyway shape or form...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/17/2008 6:21:31 AM
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Rufas2000
Posts: 1315
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quote:
As I already stated many of his private escapades were on company time... He only has himself to blame... He wasn't the victim in anyway shape or form...
I remember hearing one of those was when he was talking on the phone with Arafat. In all seriousness Arafat probably would have been quite offended if he knew. Not that offending Arafat really concerns me but if you're gonna talk to the guy anyway why do something like that while you're talking to him?
Of course that could have been just a rumor. I don't care enough to verify it, just pointing out that Clinton was doing his stuff on company time. Not to mention Monica was an intern, most businesses frown on having that sort of relationship with the interns. As a teacher my bosses wouldn't be too happy with me if I did that, even if it wasn't my personal intern. There is an imbalance of power issue, the college or organization sending the intern is trusting you to take care of that person not exploit them.
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Be my friend!
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/17/2008 12:56:05 PM
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backrowbaptist
Posts: 387
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
Obama only voted on 66 out of the 99! The percentage is 65/66! 98.5%. Clinton 77/82 = 94%
I'm not seeing how this makes him more liberal than people who voted the liberal position more..
Then the point is lost on you, I guess.
quote:
Update: From that same link:
Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., the only other senator whose presidential candidacy survived the initial round of primaries and caucuses this year, did not vote frequently enough in 2007 to draw a composite score.
Good point
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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