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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 9/22/2008 12:15:33 AM
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ljmac
Posts: 1378
Joined: 11/20/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
Everyone should live by the same laws. Eskimos don't get to slaughter more polar bears than anyone else. They don't get to skin more seals than other people. The don't get to butcher more whales than other people. And they don't get someone to hold their hands when they vote.
No they shouldn't. I live in Ohio what is relevant to my state, the citizens of my state and to the elected officials of my state may or may not be relevant to Alaska. That is the 10th amendment.
So while we're at it and what I highlighted why are we at war in Iraq over what now amounts to Saddam breaking a few treaties when we have broken hundreds and caused the killing of well over 100,000 with our broken treaties.
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Their "Native cultures" were pagan. Jesus undermines pagan cultures.
Show us the scripture please, enlighten us all with your immense biblical knowledge. : )
Are you still mourning Saddam Hussein's defeat?
I got it, a set of laws for each ethnic group. Segregation is alive and well.
Eskimos believed in sort of reincarnation and witchcraft. They had lots of supernatural beings like mermen and half dog, half man beings. Urine is a good repellent for evil spirits. The believed in a supernatural goddess who lived beneath the sea.
eskimo religion
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 9/22/2008 6:30:14 AM
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rlj
Posts: 2179
Joined: 4/14/2005
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You still haven't answered this LJ:
quote:
Their "Native cultures" were pagan. Jesus undermines pagan cultures.
Please show me where Jesus said we should forcibly undermine pagan cultures. All you have proven is what is already know and that is many of them need Jesus. Then again Jesus was a Jew and they had a history of following pagan Gods and sacrifising their children (already alive and born) to Baal. What was his actions towards them which were remarkably different than what you are advocating should have been done to the native cultures. Please, feel free to reconcile the difference.
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 9/22/2008 12:10:24 PM
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ljmac
Posts: 1378
Joined: 11/20/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
You still haven't answered this LJ:
quote:
Their "Native cultures" were pagan. Jesus undermines pagan cultures.
Please show me where Jesus said we should forcibly undermine pagan cultures. All you have proven is what is already know and that is many of them need Jesus. Then again Jesus was a Jew and they had a history of following pagan Gods and sacrifising their children (already alive and born) to Baal. What was his actions towards them which were remarkably different than what you are advocating should have been done to the native cultures. Please, feel free to reconcile the difference.
I cannot reconcile Jesus actions and a figment of your imagination. You don't know what I think "should have been done to" eskimo culture.
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 9/22/2008 4:01:29 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2179
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
I cannot reconcile Jesus actions and a figment of your imagination. You don't know what I think "should have been done to" eskimo culture.
Exactly I don't know since I can only go by what the bible would say we should do and try to reconcile what it says and what a servant of our Lord would think hence that is why there is conflict. So answer me where at in scripture or where did you come to the conclusion that Jesus undermines pagan cultures and how you apply that to the native cultures.
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 9/22/2008 11:19:50 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
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quote:
I suggest you Goggle Congress over the years... Last I checked there were people of color making laws...
You fail to understand all your charges against whites are simply the failure of mankind and could be attributed to people of any color...
True, whites are not the only sinners in the world.
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So it ok for one group to take the land from another so long as they are not white?
Ahhh...didnt the Lord have people take lands?
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What does that have to do with Native belief system? Nothing... I am not seeking to prove America was founded on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We are talking about the belief system of Native Americans...
WE could say that they ALL started out pagan, I really don't know. since the Natives do not have alot of writings from ancient times. I'm willing to believe they always believed in God.
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Other than opinion what do you have? Where are you witnesses.... Since you mentioned the bible...
The Native Americans that live there?
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 9/22/2008 11:43:25 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
Ahhh...didnt the Lord have people take lands?
Ok... So we now have a viable excuse for the white man to take land from them, right?
quote:
WE could say that they ALL started out pagan, I really don't know. since the Natives do not have alot of writings from ancient times. I'm willing to believe they always believed in God.
To be fair you have no proof of them believing in Jesus Christ, correct?
quote:
The Native Americans that live there?
Oh... And they don't have a bias like the rich judges you mentioned?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 9/22/2008 11:45:30 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
You still haven't answered this LJ:
quote:
Their "Native cultures" were pagan. Jesus undermines pagan cultures.
Please show me where Jesus said we should forcibly undermine pagan cultures. All you have proven is what is already know and that is many of them need Jesus. Then again Jesus was a Jew and they had a history of following pagan Gods and sacrifising their children (already alive and born) to Baal. What was his actions towards them which were remarkably different than what you are advocating should have been done to the native cultures. Please, feel free to reconcile the difference.
Actually by loving our enemy we undermine pagan cultures...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 9/26/2008 7:49:04 AM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 1827
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: litfire2000
quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
Please don't make things to be "we all know" as "common knowledge." It doesn't do well for your argument to suggest that certain things in history were well known, widespread and condoned when you know nothing of the sort.
Certainly atrocities happened. But in many of the accounts that I have heard about--they were addressed by the US government and many of the perpetrators were never caught.
Do you have documentation for the charges that Christian churches instituted grand atrocities?
in a way, yes GrahamCracker...remember the Inquisition?...off thread, i know, but the point is that the church as an organization is not blameless in history...and if i remember American History class, which was many years ago, it was taught that, in particular, the Roman Catholic missionaries in the Southwest did try to undermine Native cultures in their zeal to convert them to Christianity and this was done so forcibly in some situations
The Inquisition did not take place in this country. I would certainly not defend the Catholic Church and the Inquisition (it not being the topic nothwithstanding) but the purpose of the Inquisition was not racism. The Catholic Church did not kill or torture people because of their race. It did so because they were not Christian/Catholic.
In this country, even prior to the founding of the country, it took place in Spanish territory. That territory was not governed by the United States Constitution. If any Spanish or Mexican authorities tried to enforce it, it did not take place with the blessing of the United States government and certainly not with the blessing of the Protestant churches--assuming it ever did.
With regard to "undermining their culture," let's keep in mind that hindering them from learning their own language is not an atrocity and it is not torture.
The poster said: "We all know that there were many Christian churches and even church organizations that instituted grand atrocities in this country as well as others."
So what organization(s) are we talking about here? The YMCA? The Baptist Church? The Episcopal Church? The Methodist Church? This is sort of a victim mentality that gets encouraged by rumor and rewritten history. Let's remember that American Indians fought American Indian and Europeans fought European and Americans fought American.
< Message edited by GrahamCracker -- 9/26/2008 7:58:57 AM >
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 10/2/2008 11:33:26 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
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One of the few places you can actually see Russia from in Alaska is on the land of Native Alaskans.
The tribe was interviewed about Sarah.
Just the reporter walking around, you can clearly see her treatment of them. Terrible.
And noone there has seen Sarah or heard of her ever coming up there.
So her foriegn policy experience of "seeing Russia from Alaska" is a lie.
And her treatment of "Native Alaskans" is sad. Deplorable.
John Mccain should lose just because he picked her.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 10/2/2008 1:18:27 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2511
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
You still haven't answered this LJ:
quote:
Their "Native cultures" were pagan. Jesus undermines pagan cultures.
Please show me where Jesus said we should forcibly undermine pagan cultures. All you have proven is what is already know and that is many of them need Jesus. Then again Jesus was a Jew and they had a history of following pagan Gods and sacrifising their children (already alive and born) to Baal. What was his actions towards them which were remarkably different than what you are advocating should have been done to the native cultures. Please, feel free to reconcile the difference.
Actually by loving our enemy we undermine pagan cultures...
If only that were the way we treated the native american tribes - as equals.
But history tells us a different story. "The only good Indian was a dead Indian". And that was the policy. We want your land and we'll take it by force massacring whole villages of we have to and then we'll give you the more undesireable land and cram you on it to live on. We'll make you sign treaties that we expect you to live up to but which we can break whenever opportunity warrants it.
America needs to do some deep soul searching and accept the fact that our history has some very evil eras! But that was yesterday, so why bother, even if those peoples are still living in the afteraffects of those evil policies!
You keep on posting those sins of our nation PaleHawkWoman! You have that right! "Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it!"
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 10/2/2008 2:13:28 PM
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Kath
Posts: 17128
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: online
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quote:
Just the reporter walking around, you can clearly see her treatment of them. Terrible.
And noone there has seen Sarah or heard of her ever coming up there.
I saw the report. They said no Alaskan governor has been to visit, at least in the lifetime of one elderly man they interviewed.
What was the terrible treatment they suffered because of her?
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 10/2/2008 2:37:30 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10977
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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Maybe it was cold in the winter?
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 10/2/2008 3:01:24 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1697
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
If only that were the way we treated the native american tribes - as equals.
But history tells us a different story. "The only good Indian was a dead Indian". And that was the policy. We want your land and we'll take it by force massacring whole villages of we have to and then we'll give you the more undesireable land and cram you on it to live on. We'll make you sign treaties that we expect you to live up to but which we can break whenever opportunity warrants it.
Revisionist history tells us all kinds of stories. Where was it policy that the only god indian a was dead indian? Is this written policy or is it in the revisionist history? Now, as for Alaska natives. There are no "reservations" in Alaska. There are many native villages, in the areas they have been living for centuries.
quote:
"Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it!"
Perhaps those that try to rewrite history are doomed to repeat it.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 10/2/2008 7:14:39 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2511
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
If only that were the way we treated the native american tribes - as equals.
But history tells us a different story. "The only good Indian was a dead Indian". And that was the policy. We want your land and we'll take it by force massacring whole villages of we have to and then we'll give you the more undesireable land and cram you on it to live on. We'll make you sign treaties that we expect you to live up to but which we can break whenever opportunity warrants it.
Revisionist history tells us all kinds of stories. Where was it policy that the only god indian a was dead indian? Is this written policy or is it in the revisionist history? Now, as for Alaska natives. There are no "reservations" in Alaska. There are many native villages, in the areas they have been living for centuries.
quote:
"Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it!"
Perhaps those that try to rewrite history are doomed to repeat it.
Your post show a lack of historical knowledge. Alaska was a part of Russia from 1799-1867 under its first colonizers and wasn't settled by others (Americans, et al.) until after the Yukon Gold Rush of 1896. Between 1799 and 1896 there weren't many people, other than native Alaskans, living there. By this time, most of the native American in the lower 48 were forcibly relocated to reservations already.
Also haven't you heard of the Indian Removal Act of 1830 passed under Andrew Jackson? It's not "made up" or "revisionist history". It is ugly, but true events that stain our history.
Pick up a history book and prepare to have your eyes opened! And when you're done lend it to Ms. Palin. She desperately needs a refresher course as well.
Who said, "The only good indian..."
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 10/2/2008 8:33:54 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
If only that were the way we treated the native american tribes - as equals.
You were in the 7th Calvary with Custer? What lifetime was that? Your third or forth?
quote:
"Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it!"
And those who can't get past things are doomed to wallow in them...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 10/2/2008 8:53:56 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
If only that were the way we treated the native american tribes - as equals.
But history tells us a different story. "The only good Indian was a dead Indian". And that was the policy. We want your land and we'll take it by force massacring whole villages of we have to and then we'll give you the more undesireable land and cram you on it to live on. We'll make you sign treaties that we expect you to live up to but which we can break whenever opportunity warrants it.
Revisionist history tells us all kinds of stories. Where was it policy that the only god indian a was dead indian? Is this written policy or is it in the revisionist history? Now, as for Alaska natives. There are no "reservations" in Alaska. There are many native villages, in the areas they have been living for centuries.
quote:
"Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it!"
Perhaps those that try to rewrite history are doomed to repeat it.
Your post show a lack of historical knowledge. Alaska was a part of Russia from 1799-1867 under its first colonizers and wasn't settled by others (Americans, et al.) until after the Yukon Gold Rush of 1896. Between 1799 and 1896 there weren't many people, other than native Alaskans, living there. By this time, most of the native American in the lower 48 were forcibly relocated to reservations already.
Also haven't you heard of the Indian Removal Act of 1830 passed under Andrew Jackson? It's not "made up" or "revisionist history". It is ugly, but true events that stain our history.
Pick up a history book and prepare to have your eyes opened! And when you're done lend it to Ms. Palin. She desperately needs a refresher course as well.
Who said, "The only good indian..."
If it makes anyone feel better Japanese Americans and very WHITE German Americans were uprooted and tossed into camps by FDR during WWII with little or no due process... Nobody is truly safe from the government, regardless of the party in charge...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 10/2/2008 11:59:13 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1697
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Your post show a lack of historical knowledge.
I'm not a history major. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert in history. What I have done with my life, however, was leave LA and move to Alaska. I have made lifes adventures my classroom instead of going from high school to college, to grad school to the front of the class.
While oyu may have superior knowlege of history, I have lived among the natives of Alaska. I have served alongside many of them in the Eskimo Scouts. Yes, I have been made aware of some the attrocities that have been done to them. But, they don't cling to the past trying to hold the white man hostage. The overwhelming majority of Alaska natives are forward thinkers, looking to build a better, brighter future.
We cannot undo the things that have been done. Chastising those of us here and now for things done and gone do nothing to bring about the unity everyone seems to want. Books are great learning tools, getting in the trenches is where skills are built.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 10/3/2008 10:46:46 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
I saw the report. They said no Alaskan governor has been to visit, at least in the lifetime of one elderly man they interviewed.
What was the terrible treatment they suffered because of her?
Did you see those shacks they were living in? I thought he was in Haiti or somewhere like that. Third World.
Go back to OP. She is suiing them over fishing and gaming rights. They should be suiing her!!!!
Her claim to foriegn policy is being able to see Russia. Well turns out that is a lie.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 10/3/2008 12:50:05 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1697
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
I saw the report. They said no Alaskan governor has been to visit, at least in the lifetime of one elderly man they interviewed.
What was the terrible treatment they suffered because of her?
Did you see those shacks they were living in? I thought he was in Haiti or somewhere like that. Third World.
Go back to OP. She is suiing them over fishing and gaming rights. They should be suiing her!!!!
Her claim to foriegn policy is being able to see Russia. Well turns out that is a lie.
Tracy, your hatred for Palin is clear enough. BUt your ignorance of Alaska and Alaska issues simply kills your credibility.
The "shacks" you saw on TV are simply because there's no way to get building materials into native villages. There are no roads in or out of the majority of Alaksa naitive villages. The only way to get to and from is by airplane, boat and snowmachine. There's also no way to put a sewer system in many villages. You'll find that many of them still use honey buckets for human waste. It's not because the governor and the legislature don't care. There's no way to get the material in to construct the infrastructure.
Seems that your anger is based on the expectation that everyone else be able to live just like you do.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 10/3/2008 1:01:21 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
Tracy, your hatred for Palin is clear enough. BUt your ignorance of Alaska and Alaska issues simply kills your credibility.
The "shacks" you saw on TV are simply because there's no way to get building materials into native villages. There are no roads in or out of the majority of Alaksa naitive villages. The only way to get to and from is by airplane, boat and snowmachine. There's also no way to put a sewer system in many villages. You'll find that many of them still use honey buckets for human waste. It's not because the governor and the legislature don't care. There's no way to get the material in to construct the infrastructure.
Seems that your anger is based on the expectation that everyone else be able to live just like you do.
Instead of the Bridge to nowhere , how about to there. Where she claims she has been and seen Russia from! LOL.
My expectation is that yes, americans do not live in Third World conditions. I don't want Third Worlders to live like that, but don't expect the Natives of this country to have to live like that. I want them to live better than me. I'm just a foriegner here. Like you.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 10/3/2008 1:02:34 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10977
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
There's also no way to put a sewer system in many villages. You'll find that many of them still use honey buckets for human waste. Ever try to put a septic system in frozen tundra?
(Tundra. That's frozen solid ground, not a Toyota truck.)
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 10/3/2008 1:06:55 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
There's also no way to put a sewer system in many villages. You'll find that many of them still use honey buckets for human waste.Ever try to put a septic system in frozen tundra?
(Tundra. That's frozen solid ground, not a Toyota truck.)
they sure manage to get oil rigs up there.
Excuses, excuses.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 10/3/2008 1:10:44 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1697
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Tracy, your hatred for Palin is clear enough. BUt your ignorance of Alaska and Alaska issues simply kills your credibility.
The "shacks" you saw on TV are simply because there's no way to get building materials into native villages. There are no roads in or out of the majority of Alaksa naitive villages. The only way to get to and from is by airplane, boat and snowmachine. There's also no way to put a sewer system in many villages. You'll find that many of them still use honey buckets for human waste. It's not because the governor and the legislature don't care. There's no way to get the material in to construct the infrastructure.
Seems that your anger is based on the expectation that everyone else be able to live just like you do.
Instead of the Bridge to nowhere , how about to there. Where she claims she has been and seen Russia from! LOL.
My expectation is that yes, americans do not live in Third World conditions. I don't want Third Worlders to live like that, but don't expect the Natives of this country to have to live like that. I want them to live better than me. I'm just a foriegner here. Like you.
Why should the state put a bridge to there? There are no roads anywhere near there on the mainland. You want people to live better? Instead of clicking on the donate here function of your computer, get up and go live among them. And, if the state was to put a road to that location, why not build roads to the rest of the state? How about roads all the way up to Barrow?
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Sarah Palin's Record On Native Alaskan Issues - 10/3/2008 1:16:45 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
Why should the state put a bridge to there? There are no roads anywhere near there on the mainland. You want people to live better? Instead of clicking on the donate here function of your computer, get up and go live among them. And, if the state was to put a road to that location, why not build roads to the rest of the state? How about roads all the way up to Barrow?
I live among the poor. Always have and even when I got $ still do.
So dont build them a Bridge to help them.
So it is okay that Natives live like that.
And you wonder why?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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