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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/12/2008 1:37:01 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4279
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: InBetweenDreams
quote:
a little grace....just a little grace
 and some love 
I'm not sure anyone's feeling the love right now, so I didn't want to push it 
But if we all drifted outside of our own paradigms and perceptions, if might be a little easier to have some compassion for one another.
Yes, there are times when tantrums and the allowance thereof, is totally inappropriate. No, that is not the case ALL or even the majority of the time. But when it happens, it can be much more memorable.
Sometimes, even the best behaved children will misbehave in public - usually mortifying their parents who are completely blindisghted by this. Then there are the very few "others" who know and expect their kids to misbehave in public and just don't care enough to do anything about it - usually the ones that make wal-mart a family date night on fridays....J/K 
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/12/2008 2:01:52 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4279
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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too bad y'all can't be perfect as I am perfect  
 yeh right 
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/12/2008 2:35:28 PM
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Jenny-Fair
Posts: 6284
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From: WA
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That isn't giving in, Ruth, it's just wisdom. If a child digs in his heels, though, you have to stand firm, even if they act like the sky is falling because they can't have what they want.
Eh, there is no hard and fast rule. And NO ONE knows your kid as well as you do.
_____________________________
Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
My Blog
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/13/2008 1:52:26 AM
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bzirk
Posts: 2915
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
"Never try to explain your kids' behavior. Those who know already know. And those who don't, won't believe you anyway."
Just scanning the thread. Gotta quote this 'cause it's so good.
I have never tried to explain my kids' behavior, but when in public I try to balance consideration of others with what is best for my child at the time. Over the years my kids learned that they would suffer punishment for their behavior even if it was after we left the public area. Like Doinkdom, I've had to visit a few restrooms. I've also driven my kids home or somewhere private in order to administer discipline. What's sad is that the discipline I've administered might get someone's kids taken away from them these days. No, I'm not talking about flying off the handle, but merely putting a kid over my knee and spanking their behinds. Somehow that's heinous today -- but that's another thread.
When I see a parent who is grappling with a misbehaving child and other adults being irritated with them, it's not unusual for me to try to encourage them. My heart does go out to them, and I can't help but try to encourage them so they don't feel that everyone in a public place is looking at them with a scowl. As for those who don't appear to care if their kids are acting up, I've been known to make a crack at times. Whatever is happening, I usually try to pray int he moment for the parents and the kids.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/13/2008 6:09:33 AM
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Hislittleone
Posts: 620
Joined: 7/13/2007
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Posting somewhat blind as I've only read about half the thread so far.
quote:
ORIGINAL: spitzu
quote:
ORIGINAL: SweetPea213
So you are in effect saying that someone with a Depressive and Anxiety Disorder who might, oh I don't know, go into an ANXIETY ATTACK because of someone's kid is screaming (regardless of the reason)? Is their something about DISORDER that *you* do NOT understand?! I think there is.
*I* have a severe anxiety disorder myself and I will tell you right now that I'd much rather go into a huge panic attack if it meant a sick innocent child could get the medicine he or she needed.
And yeah, psychological disorders can take years to overcome... but come on... I have panic attacks regularly and each one is temporary. They DO end. They don't normally put me in any immediate danger, like a severe infection could in a child. Not even close. Besides, when I panic, I'm smart enough to attempt to remove myself from the situation or even avoid my triggers to begin with. Sometimes when I'm really bad, that means avoiding certain public places. *I* have that choice. A sick child does not.
[image][/image]
I also have panic/anxiety attacks. And I agree with Spitzu. If I'm in a situation that is causing an attack, I do my best to get out of that situation. If it's impossible to leave then I just hold on and remind myself that it will pass and I will be ok. I am an adult and can control my actions whereas a 6 month old baby and 2yo toddler can't. (Well, a toddler can somewhat control their actions but certainly not as much nor as well as an adult can.) Like Spitzu, I would rather suffer through a terrible panic/anxiety attack than deny a hurting child the medicine he or she needs.
Having panic/anxiety attacks is extremely scary. But I wouldn't compare it to an ear infection. Leaving an ear infection untreated can result in serious physical damage to the ear. A panic/anxiety attack will pass, an ear infection won't.
We do try not to take out children to places that aren't kid friendly. On vacation this summer we went out to eat a lot and my mom and husband took turns taking our (almost) 2yo into the lobby or gift shop in order to occupy him. If he started screaming while in the restaurant we would remove him immediately. Our little one is pretty happy and laid back but he does have tantrums now and then. If we are in public and he is being really loud then we will remove him from the situation if possible.
We try to really pay attention to whether he is actually throwing a temper tantrum or having a meltdown. Usually it's a meltdown from hunger or being tired. In that case we use grace and take care of his needs as quickly as possible. If it's temper then we generally ignore it. But this RARELY occurs. After a minute or two he will calm himself down and continue on playing as if nothing happened. So far this method is working. As he gets a little older I'm sure we'll be dealing with his temper more. In that case we'll either ignore it or discipline depending on which method seems to work best with him and depending on the specific situation.
My oldest responded best to being ignored or having his attention diverted. He is also very laid back (and well behaved.....on most days ). It seems we've had it easy in the tantrum department so far.
I don't agree with parents that always give their children what they want and never discipline. But I also think we need to use grace in our parenting, not just discipline. Afterall, the Lord uses both with us. He also created us as unique individuals with different personalities. So it makes sense that what might not work with one child will work with another.
< Message edited by Hislittleone -- 9/13/2008 6:44:39 AM >
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/13/2008 10:13:49 AM
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bzirk
Posts: 2915
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
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When I hear the word tantrum, I tend to think willful behavior that is not due to a child being cranky from lack of sleep or food. But it's true that a parent needs to be wise about why their young child is doing what they're doing. If a parent takes a very sleepy or very hungry young child along with them to a public place that requires the child wait and wait, then the child does not need discipline but rather for their parent to have some wisdom. However, as a child gets older they do need to learn that they have to sometimes wait -- even when they're sleepy or hungry. Of course this is best done bit by bit as the child grows, but granted, with some parents it's a passive/agressive thing -- all or nothing. Either they confine the child and let them get louder and louder or they immediately cater to the child or they end up doing both. I've definitely seen this reaction from parents -- mostly at restaurants.
It's tough learning to be a parent, and I try to ALWAYS remember that when I see parents either struggling in the moment with what to do or really being out to lunch. I cannot help but think, 'BEEN THERE, DONE THAT.' Thankfully, I learned the passive/aggressive thing doesn't work -- at least not with my kids. I learned to take my out of the area (usually the car) and administer a spanking if it was truly willful behavior. If they were tired, I left as soon as possible. Oh, I tried not to take them places when they needed sleep, but hey, no parent is perfect, so it happened sometimes. Just like it's going to happen with every parent unless they never set foot outside the house. KWIM?
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/13/2008 11:30:28 AM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 615
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
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quote:
When I hear the word tantrum, I tend to think willful behavior that is not due to a child being cranky from lack of sleep or food.
I think this is good. I think those who don't have children though or haven't been exposed to a lot of children think every time a child cries or screams he is having a tantrum..
G
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It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/13/2008 11:49:28 AM
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bzirk
Posts: 2915
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GregandJenny
quote:
When I hear the word tantrum, I tend to think willful behavior that is not due to a child being cranky from lack of sleep or food.
I think this is good. I think those who don't have children though or haven't been exposed to a lot of children think every time a child cries or screams he is having a tantrum..
G
The onus is on the parent to be wise about the situation and not worry if others don't know. The parents know or should.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/13/2008 6:34:43 PM
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daughter_of_faith
Posts: 1265
Joined: 1/10/2008
From: Great Plains, Kansas
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Our family went shopping today. The little one didn't throw any temper tantrums. Thank goodness!
I did see one or two & it made me think of reading this thread. The one mother was checking out and the little boy was tantrumming. It didn't really bother me all that much as the store was busy & there were people talking everywhere anyways.
What's the difference between a man or woman who hollers across the store so everyone can hear them and a small child who hollers? I'm pondering that one, but I'm kind of thinking that the adult should really KNOW better while the child is still learning!
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/13/2008 8:14:31 PM
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barbhuff
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Joined: 4/11/2005
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I can guarantee you that if you see me in the store, you'll see a screaming, thrashing kid.
And I'll be pushing him/her along, acting like nothing is going on.
And, frankly, your comfort in the store is the least of my concerns.
I have a couple little ones who are special needs. One of them in particular is a trip. Her little life so far was full of chaos, torture, and neglect before she came to us, and because of this, she has behaviorial issues, attachment problems, and now she's been diagnosed with fetal alcohol syndrome and ADHD on top of it.
I think of your concerns most of the time, but I can't spend her lifetime with her boarded up in the house. We do our best-- if we do need to go out to eat we pick somewhere quick, off peak times, and with as little business as possible. I try to do my shopping alone when my husband is home. She still has never been to a movie, or the fair, or a festival, and when her dad was in a play, I only took her to a rehearsal. We avoid the park when its busy. I don't take her to the library or the mall.
That little one of mine, she lives for chaos. She lives for control and being the center of attention. If you stop me and talk to her, no matter how kind it is, she's won and you've just reaffirmed the tantrum. If you stop me and chide me for my lack of parenting skills, she's won and you've just reaffirmed the tantrum. If I leave the store without what I came for, she's won and I've just reaffirmed the tantrum. She's learned that she can control the situation.
I can't use the typical parenting skills. She's been hurt by every other caregiver figure in her five years. She doesn't want me to like her, and she doesn't want to like me because in her little head, she doesn't believe that she's going to be here forever like we say. She didn't get forever with her birth mom. She didn't get forever with her birth grandparents. And she didn't get forever with us when we were her foster parents before that. If she doesn't like us, she won't get hurt when she has to leave again. That's what she thinks.
So she's going to cause chaos.
And if I have her in the store, there is a good reason for it. One that I can't control otherwise, and, respectfully, I don't care what you think. There are hundreds of thousands of kids across this country who have gone through the kind of things she has, and they don't wear a scarlet letter or something that let's you know they are "special needs." We parents deserve some grace, too.
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Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing.
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/13/2008 8:24:41 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2915
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
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You make a good point, Barb.
I think I usually only react negatively when a parent has an attitude, and even then I try to cut some slack -- but sometimes are easier than others.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/13/2008 10:54:16 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
Posts: 897
Joined: 9/6/2007
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Children trowing fits never bothered me. That is part of having kids so anyone who thinks it is the worst offence no matter the circumstance had better plan on never having kids.
I will tell you what does bother me. I see parents who are so mean to their kids when I am out in public. I have seen parents call children horrible names, slap them for not tying shoes fast enough. I have seen infants ignored while they cried for their ma ma who only yells at the poor baby or outright ignores them while they get more desperate. I just want to walk over to that mom and say if you are to busy to comfort your child I can. But that is not acceptable behavior here. I just have to watch and mind my own business. It breaks my heart. I am very understanding of crying children. That is how all kids behave, except maybe those babies born to that polygamist cult where they were slapped to make them cry then hit until they could no longer even whimper.
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<------- Jessica and I had so much fun with grandma!
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/14/2008 10:45:53 AM
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bzirk
Posts: 2915
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
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Well some hackneyed old phrases are true. Walk a mile in my shoes comes to mind.
I used to get very irritated with kids acting up until I had my first child at 30 years old. That did seem to change my perspective a bit. LOL!
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/14/2008 3:22:09 PM
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firefightermama
Posts: 1393
Joined: 10/24/2006
From: Canada
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: barbhuff
I can guarantee you that if you see me in the store, you'll see a screaming, thrashing kid.
And I'll be pushing him/her along, acting like nothing is going on.
And, frankly, your comfort in the store is the least of my concerns.
I have a couple little ones who are special needs. One of them in particular is a trip. Her little life so far was full of chaos, torture, and neglect before she came to us, and because of this, she has behaviorial issues, attachment problems, and now she's been diagnosed with fetal alcohol syndrome and ADHD on top of it.
I think of your concerns most of the time, but I can't spend her lifetime with her boarded up in the house. We do our best-- if we do need to go out to eat we pick somewhere quick, off peak times, and with as little business as possible. I try to do my shopping alone when my husband is home. She still has never been to a movie, or the fair, or a festival, and when her dad was in a play, I only took her to a rehearsal. We avoid the park when its busy. I don't take her to the library or the mall.
That little one of mine, she lives for chaos. She lives for control and being the center of attention. If you stop me and talk to her, no matter how kind it is, she's won and you've just reaffirmed the tantrum. If you stop me and chide me for my lack of parenting skills, she's won and you've just reaffirmed the tantrum. If I leave the store without what I came for, she's won and I've just reaffirmed the tantrum. She's learned that she can control the situation.
I can't use the typical parenting skills. She's been hurt by every other caregiver figure in her five years. She doesn't want me to like her, and she doesn't want to like me because in her little head, she doesn't believe that she's going to be here forever like we say. She didn't get forever with her birth mom. She didn't get forever with her birth grandparents. And she didn't get forever with us when we were her foster parents before that. If she doesn't like us, she won't get hurt when she has to leave again. That's what she thinks.
So she's going to cause chaos.
And if I have her in the store, there is a good reason for it. One that I can't control otherwise, and, respectfully, I don't care what you think. There are hundreds of thousands of kids across this country who have gone through the kind of things she has, and they don't wear a scarlet letter or something that let's you know they are "special needs." We parents deserve some grace, too.
Stars, anyone?
_____________________________
~yolanda~
"I wish I was a glow worm, cuz glow worms are never glum.
How can you be grumpy when the sun shines out your bum
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/14/2008 3:53:23 PM
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stampinlady
Posts: 1539
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Northern IL
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That was a great post Barb. I work retail part-time and I see my share of tantrums. A few weeks ago a family came to me ready to check out and the their 1, maybe 2 yr. old wasn't very happy. She started sreaming and held her breath for the longest time. The mother had to shake her to get her to breath. I had never seen a child this. I don't think that's very good. Is this normal for some?
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Deb
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/14/2008 4:09:23 PM
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Jenny-Fair
Posts: 6284
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: WA
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It's classic, actually. Kids will do that 'till they pass out-but when they pass out they start breathing again. I wouldn't shake a child, though, especially a really young one. I would ignore that kind of fit.
_____________________________
Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
My Blog
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/14/2008 4:12:36 PM
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stampinlady
Posts: 1539
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Northern IL
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I and a few other ladies were just waiting for this child to breath and it was scary, at least for me. I had never seen a kid do that before. My kids never did this.
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Deb
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