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RE: Meanwhile, back at the campaign... - 8/14/2008 9:06:43 AM
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SwedishCovenant
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
Nobody who has listened to the Republican Bush fumblemouth his way through the past eight years could possibly make that statement about Obama with anything other than with a face so straight as to be useful for surveying.
Cute response, but does not negate the fact that B. Hussein Obama seems to be a few cards short of a deck by his inability to speak on his own.
Maybe it has something to do with affirmative action that he speaks so fondly of.
Thanks
RC
Actually, I have watched quite a few of his town hall meetings and even attended one. I have not, and did not, observe the phenomenon you describe.
It wouldn't be the first time Obama has been attacked with a subverted support argument.
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RE: Meanwhile, back at the campaign... - 8/14/2008 9:07:13 AM
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PhunkD
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This is part of the evil genius of Rove-style campaigning. You don't attack an opponent on a weakness, but his greatest strength. You repeat the lie over and over again, first in the right wing "echo-chambers," then nation wide, until the lie becomes plausible. It forces the opponent to play away from their own strength.
With Kerry, it was his service in Vietnam. With Obama, it is his oratory.
What's remarkable about this strategy is apparently it doesn't matter if your own candidate has these weaknesses. Bush was a draft dodger, but Kerry came out looking like one. George, "Childrens do learn" Bush is one of the worst speakers ever in this country, but now right-wingers regard an occasional hesitation as a tremendous gaffe!
Is McCain a great speaker? He could use a few more hesitations. It would help him keep his facts straight.
If you don't like his policies, fine, say so. But Obama is among the best public speakers in the nation--with or without a teleprompter.
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RE: Meanwhile, back at the campaign... - 8/14/2008 9:11:56 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5660
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
This is part of the evil genius of Rove-style campaigning. You don't attack an opponent on a weakness, but his greatest strength. You repeat the lie over and over again, first in the right wing "echo-chambers," then nation wide, until the lie becomes plausible. It forces the opponent to play away from their own strength.
With Kerry, it was his service in Vietnam. With Obama, it is his oratory.
What's remarkable about this strategy is apparently it doesn't matter if your own candidate has these weaknesses. Bush was a draft dodger, but Kerry came out looking like one. George, "Childrens do learn" Bush is one of the worst speakers ever in this country, but now right-wingers regard an occasional hesitation as a tremendous gaffe!
Is McCain a great speaker? He could use a few more hesitations. It would help him keep his facts straight.
If you don't like his policies, fine, say so. But Obama is among the best public speakers in the nation--with or without a teleprompter.
B. Hussein Obama gives a great speech, no doubt about it. When he has a teleprompter to guide him.
He stumbles to a point of embarrassment when hes responses are off the cuff about a question he was not expecting. His handlers really need to work on that.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Meanwhile, back at the campaign... - 8/14/2008 9:16:31 AM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
I think they are quite different.
Yeah, you said that before - repeting your opinion that they are different is nothing new.
HOW they are different is what is asked for - and you have made effort to quatify the difference at all. (Hint - repeating the same opinion does not support it.)
In practical terms, what did McCain say that was in any way superior to what Obama said?
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RE: Meanwhile, back at the campaign... - 8/14/2008 9:40:13 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7783
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
Yeah, you said that before - repeting your opinion that they are different is nothing new.
HOW they are different is what is asked for - and you have made effort to quatify the difference at all. (Hint - repeating the same opinion does not support it.)
In practical terms, what did McCain say that was in any way superior to what Obama said?
It was specific, direct, informed, and didn't give the Russians wiggle room to stall withdrawing.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Meanwhile, back at the campaign... - 8/14/2008 9:57:50 AM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
This is part of the evil genius of Rove-style campaigning. You don't attack an opponent on a weakness, but his greatest strength. You repeat the lie over and over again, first in the right wing "echo-chambers," then nation wide, until the lie becomes plausible. It forces the opponent to play away from their own strength.
With Kerry, it was his service in Vietnam. With Obama, it is his oratory.
What's remarkable about this strategy is apparently it doesn't matter if your own candidate has these weaknesses. Bush was a draft dodger, but Kerry came out looking like one. George, "Childrens do learn" Bush is one of the worst speakers ever in this country, but now right-wingers regard an occasional hesitation as a tremendous gaffe!
Is McCain a great speaker? He could use a few more hesitations. It would help him keep his facts straight.
If you don't like his policies, fine, say so. But Obama is among the best public speakers in the nation--with or without a teleprompter.
B. Hussein Obama gives a great speech, no doubt about it. When he has a teleprompter to guide him.
He stumbles to a point of embarrassment when hes responses are off the cuff about a question he was not expecting. His handlers really need to work on that.
Thanks
RC
Repeating the original subverted-support assertion does not constitute support for it.
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RE: Meanwhile, back at the campaign... - 8/14/2008 1:07:45 PM
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leonfigg3
Posts: 342
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
quote:
ORIGINAL: leonfigg3
inther site,
Haven't you learned by now that Republicans are to be taken literally and their words distorted to mean things that have nothing to do with reality, but allowances need to be made for Democrats and we must somehow understand what it is that they are trying to say no matter how unrealistic it may sound.
Like, a M. Hussein O. saying she's never been proud of her country means she hates America?
Like B. Hussein O. saying some Americans are bitter, means, he hates hard-working gun totting, bible believing Americans?
Like, when B. Hussein O. makes a gaffe like "57 states", that he really believes there are 57 states?
LIke when....oh nevermind.
- Julius
I quess I am not very good at satire. I was trying to interpret how we are to take what people say from what I have come to see as the Democrat Party's view.
It seems to me that Democrats tend to take what Republicans say as being literal and then draw all kinds of conclusions from that to say that that is not what the Republican really did say.
Then they turn around and demand people be patient with fellow Democrats and interpret the meaning of what they try to say instead of really listening to what they are saying.
In other words Democrats seem to say that what a Republican says is fair game for all kinds of interpretation. But one must be careful and patient with what a Democrat says because it is usally so high and lofty that the average person is incapable of initially understanding what he is saying.
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RE: Meanwhile, back at the campaign... - 8/14/2008 1:40:42 PM
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Evangel70
Posts: 551
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quote:
It seems to me that Democrats tend to take what Republicans say as being literal and then draw all kinds of conclusions from that to say that that is not what the Republican really did say.
Then they turn around and demand people be patient with fellow Democrats and interpret the meaning of what they try to say instead of really listening to what they are saying.
In other words Democrats seem to say that what a Republican says is fair game for all kinds of interpretation. But one must be careful and patient with what a Democrat says because it is usally so high and lofty that the average person is incapable of initially understanding what he is saying.
It's interesting to note how personal baises shape one's perception. I would have stated exactly the opposite, that REPUBLICANS are the ones who take what democrats say as literal (i.e. Obama's gaffe about 57 states) while overlooking and excusing republican gaffes (i.e. McCain's inability to pronounce the Georgian president's name).
For instance, IMO, it's the far right (i.e. Fox News, Rich Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, etc.) that is claiming Obama's supposed "Messiah" image and the ones that talk about Obama ad nauseum every day. While the mainstream media DOES cover Obama more than McCain, IMO, their enthusiastic coverage is due mostly to the fact the Obama is already making history by being the first African American likely to become President. (I can't speak for what the far left does since I don't listen to Air America or read DialyKOS and the like)
I think that if Hillary Clinton had gotten the Democratic nomination, she, too would have gotten more coverage than McCain simply because she would have been the first viable female president. I also think that McCain doesn't get as much coverage because his campaign is so negative. One gets tired of hearing how bad Obama is and while not having any idea of what McCain would do differently. Just my 2 cents here.
I still have grave concerns over McCain's age and the fact that he would only be a one-term candidate if elected, but I am looking forward to seeing how he and Obama debate each other on "issues" rather than character flaws. If McCain goes negative during the debates instead of answer questions and emphasize differences, you can count on a democratic landslide.
_____________________________
May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: Meanwhile, back at the campaign... - 8/14/2008 1:54:45 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5660
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
Repeating the original subverted-support assertion does not constitute support for it.
And there you go again.......
How about we watch the debate on Saturday night from Saddleback Church? It will be the firest heads up chance to see the candidates answer questions.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Meanwhile, back at the campaign... - 8/14/2008 2:00:02 PM
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Evangel70
Posts: 551
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quote:
How about we watch the debate on Saturday night from Saddleback Church? It will be the firest heads up chance to see the candidates answer questions.
Thanks
RC
Do you know who will be carrying that? Will it be televised?
_____________________________
May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: Meanwhile, back at the campaign... - 8/14/2008 3:39:05 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
*Commentator whispers quietly*
What SwedishCovenant fails to realize in this ironic exchange, is that Barak Obama co-sponsored a resolution with John McCain supporting Georgia's inclusion in NATO.
Why, so he did - a fact that is completely irrelevant to the original question, which was, in case it has been forgotten:
"...anyone else think it very Insider-Washingtonian that John McCain's foreign policy adviser is a paid lobbyist for the nation of Georgia, at the very moment that McCain is trying to make the conflict in Georgia an American campaign issue? "
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080813/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_lobbyist
and:
"Had your party, and your President, gotten their way, Georgia would today be a member of NATO and we would be pledged to fight World War Three over them. Is this your idea of a GOOD foreign policy decision? "
Any discussion of the actual thread topic would be welcome.
Inclusion in NATO requires more than the US supporting it. How to respond (to the invasion of a NATO country) would be a NATO decision. I don't see any evidence that the candidates differ much in respect to Georgia. But, I don't call him McLobby for nothing. 
This invasion will make the next President and the NATO countries face the possibility of "over-reaching". "Putie" has called NATO's hand.
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Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: Meanwhile, back at the campaign... - 8/14/2008 3:41:11 PM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
Repeating the original subverted-support assertion does not constitute support for it.
And there you go again.......
Yeah, I'm sure there will be PLENTY of opportunities for me to point out errors of fact and logic. This has been a rich hunting ground so far.
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RE: Meanwhile, back at the campaign... - 8/14/2008 3:41:22 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5660
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
quote:
How about we watch the debate on Saturday night from Saddleback Church? It will be the firest heads up chance to see the candidates answer questions.
Thanks
RC
Do you know who will be carrying that? Will it be televised?
It will be on Fox news this Saturday at 8PM Eastern, if you libs can hold your nose and watch the "Fair and Balanced" channel for an hour or two; please do.
Seriously, I am looking forwardward to seeing the two side by side for a change from the long distance sniping.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Meanwhile, back at the campaign... - 8/14/2008 3:47:18 PM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
quote:
How about we watch the debate on Saturday night from Saddleback Church? It will be the firest heads up chance to see the candidates answer questions.
Thanks
RC
Do you know who will be carrying that? Will it be televised?
It says here...:
http://holycoast.blogspot.com/2008/08/tickets-to-saddleback-church.html
...that "UPDATE 8/12: CNN and Fox will broadcast the Saddleback Snoozefest live from 8-10pm ET. "
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RE: Meanwhile, back at the campaign... - 8/14/2008 4:20:09 PM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
quote:
UPDATE 8/12: CNN and Fox will broadcast the Saddleback Snoozefest live from 8-10pm ET. "
Phew! Good thing CNN is broadcasting as well. Didn't think I could hold my nose for two hours for that "fair and balanced" broadcast. 
I can just see the respective headlines:
CNN: "Obama, McCain Debate"
Fox: "Obama First Time Inside a Church Since Wright Fiasco"
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RE: Meanwhile, back at the campaign... - 8/14/2008 4:25:43 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1589
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From: The North Woods
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quote:
How about we watch the debate on Saturday night from Saddleback Church? It will be the firest heads up chance to see the candidates answer questions.
FYI - This will not be a one-on-one debate between Obama and McCain. It will feature Rick Warren conducting separate Q&A sessions (20 each) with each candidate.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Meanwhile, back at the campaign... - 8/14/2008 4:29:01 PM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
How about we watch the debate on Saturday night from Saddleback Church? It will be the firest heads up chance to see the candidates answer questions.
FYI - This will not be a one-on-one debate between Obama and McCain. It will feature Rick Warren conducting separate Q&A sessions (20 each) with each candidate.
Do they get the same 20 questions, and if so, do we get to hear both answers back-to-back?
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RE: Meanwhile, back at the campaign... - 8/14/2008 4:31:15 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1589
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: The North Woods
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quote:
Do they get the same 20 questions, and if so, do we get to hear both answers back-to-back?
Not sure about whether the questions will be the same for each guy, but I get the impression that Obama and McCain will not be on-stage together for the event.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Meanwhile, back at the campaign... - 8/14/2008 6:10:38 PM
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saved9201
Posts: 712
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
B. Hussein Obama gives a great speech, no doubt about it. When he has a teleprompter to guide him.
He stumbles to a point of embarrassment when hes responses are off the cuff about a question he was not expecting. His handlers really need to work on that.
Thanks
RC
For a Muslim whose native tongue is Arabic, I think B. Hussein O. does a pretty good job.
- Julius
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RE: Meanwhile, back at the campaign... - 8/14/2008 6:14:01 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 2067
Joined: 9/23/2005
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quote:
Phew! Good thing CNN is broadcasting as well. Didn't think I could hold my nose for two hours for that "fair and balanced" broadcast.
Um, dude? They're both broadcasting the SAME debate.....it's not like it will be any different on CNN.
(and yes, I saw the smiley and know your post is in jest; this is for the rest of the liberals who will actually take you seriously)
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Meanwhile, back at the campaign... - 8/14/2008 7:20:14 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5660
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
For a Muslim whose native tongue is Arabic, I think B. Hussein O. does a pretty good job.
- Julius
Well you are not alone as Hamas agrees with you.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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