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[Poll]
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Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong
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| TRUE - Christians have no business ever drinking alcohol |
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| FALSE - Cristians having an occasional glass of wine is not sinful |
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Total Votes : 120
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(last vote on : 10/5/2008 1:40:56 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 2:54:21 PM
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zoebob
Posts: 8775
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From: land of limbo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
Another point that comes up is hiding something you do, so others won't know and get their dentures full of gravel. Something just smacks of hypocrasy with the whole thing.
on another note: We have made disuptable issues out of things there should not be dispute about. In the united States, alcohol is one of them.
On the first one - it would feel hypocritical to me if I actually thought it were wrong and I was hiding it to avoid discovery. If I just choose to enjoy the privilege privately to avoid the fuss, is it still hypocrisy?
For a while, when my in-laws came to town I'd clear the beer from the fridge in order to avoid having an argument that I knew noone would win. Now that they know me a bit better, I feel a bit more freedom to reveal more personal information about my habits. That didn't feel too hypocritical. Sometimes it's just "information management".
On the second one - absolutely!
I like that: Informational Management.
It would be hypocritical to say you agree with her or to say you have stopped drinking when you haven't. However, to just drop the subject and not flaunt it in front of her is not hypocritical
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 3:11:18 PM
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Hayseed
Posts: 580
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It's too bad that scripture doesn't just come right out and say in these exact words: "MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!"
It would be a tremendous help to all the people that don't want to "get it" in the way the scripture DOES word it.
Churches would be so much better off and the Church wouldn't get such a bad rap from a lot of folks.
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My entire goal in life is to live exactly like the man who was falsely accused of being a drunkard, heretic and a friend of sinners by the religious people. So, don't be surprised if I'm not too concerned if you think ill of me.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 3:15:35 PM
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GroupW
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My bible says it just exactly that way.
Of course, I wrote it myself in the margins at the beginning of Romans 14. Does it still count?
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 3:24:54 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2911
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From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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Gutenburg would be jealous.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 5:40:48 PM
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MindySue69
Posts: 321
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
Maybe the OP can tell us if her harrasser is an older Christian being a control freak, or a new Christian who may truly be shocked by her wine drinking.
Saying that, I don't know that hiding what we do because someone has been taught incorrectly and percieves it to be sin is right. Perhaps the person needs to be straightened out on the issue.
If your preacher incorrectly teaches that alcohol use in moderation is a sin, then why should your faulty theology effect me?
I was at work all day and have several errands to do tonight - I can not believe the volume of answers here.
The reason I gave only two choices is because really it is black and white, yes or no - either all alcohol consumption, no matter what, is a sin, or it is not a sin when taken in moderation. It's an obvious no brainer that to be drunk is a sin. So it either IS or it ISN'T.
Please note that this person has been a Christian for 20+ years. Has a rather rigid legalistic outlook, much different than mine - SORT of. She is free to take the Lord's name in vain, because she doesn't see herself as doing it (probably says "The Lord knows I don't mean it that way...") She also thinks it's awful to listen to secular music - EXCEPT for the one or two secular songs SHE likes.
She also is not someone who lives near me, that she would EVER see me buying, much less drinking, a glass of wine. She lives well over an hour away, but now, that she knows that I am one of "those" Christians, she feels compelled to correct me of the error of my ways. She brought up the "offended brother" even though there is NOBODY to ever by offended by what I do - because I never drink in public. Never.
Also, a point was made about being drunk without realizing you are drunk. this is why I never have more than the second glass. Often the first glass is more than enough, or I may have another half glass - but I never drink more than the second glass.
Of course people can say "But it will be easy to then justify the 3rd glass, and then the 4th...."
Sure, of course it is. Just like being on the internet is opening the door for visiting porn sites. The reasoning is the same. I could tell you that you should not be online because you could look at porn, because it's so easy. You should not be on myspace or facebook because you will hook up with people who will make you sin. You should not buy that box of donuts because you will find it easier to eat three or four instead of one and then you will be committing the sin of gluttony, and frankly, I'm offended that you're not taking better care of your Temple by not eating health food.
It's really not about offence, it IS about control. If this woman were truly worried about holiness and purity, she would not be taking the Lord's name in vain. She has picked out a few pet sins that she thinks are horrible and she's out to beat people over the head with it until they submit to her way of thinking.
No thanks - I left legalism many years ago and I'm not going to go under the burden of it again. Will I mention wine to her again? No. If she asks me if I'm drinking, I'm going to ask her if she's still taking the Lord's name in vain.
Back to the poll - there really are only two answers for my question. Yes, it is a sin all the time, or no, it is not a sin if taken in moderation.
Thanks for all the great responses and I hope to read them all before the night is over but I have a lot of work that I brought home tonight to do after my errands, so I may not make it.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 5:55:41 PM
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magiceraserbrush
Posts: 38
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MindySue9 Drinking is used in spiritual offering Exodus 29:40 but it is offensive to others you should no drink it Romans 14:21.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 5:59:06 PM
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MindySue69
Posts: 321
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quote:
ORIGINAL: magiceraserbrush
MindySue9 Drinking is used in spiritual offering Exodus 29:40 but it is offensive to others you should no drink it Romans 14:21.
Do you eat pork? I find that offensive. Therefore, since I know that you eat pork, then you had better not eat it.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 6:00:48 PM
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magiceraserbrush
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Drinking to much is wrong but Jesus Christ said that l;ittle wine wind is good for the stomach.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 6:02:46 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2911
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
quote:
Will I mention wine to her again? No. If she asks me if I'm drinking, I'm going to ask her if she's still taking the Lord's name in vain.
This sounds like a good plan, IMO. 
Sounds perfectly fair.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/14/2008 8:39:56 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3438
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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quote:
this thread was started last night...isn't it past time for the "it was not wine, it was grape juice" crowd to show up?
The pastor who explained this theology said it was something he classified as ambrosia...and grape drink made from some kind of grape paste...not fermented since Jesus came as the high prioest...i.e. Melshezidec...and could not drink fermented drinks.
That is what he said. Now, as I have learned, his theology has come into question...soooo.
quote:
What is OK for you to give up today inorder to put others before yourself?
If I understand correctly this is about not doing something that would cause another to stumble? While certainly true, we must also temper this scripture. You can take this ideal to the extent that you cannot do anything without causing another to stumble...eat a hamburger...swim without a burka....smoke a cigar once a year.
Moderation. Wisdom and discernment.
While in some cases I guess its possible that a christian drinking beer could be a good witness....?....I guess....its been my personal experience the exact oppisite is true.
I went home and paid an olkd friend a visit. I spent a lot of time with him those couple of weeks and of course Jesus came up..fairly often. We had a few beers together. Know what he said to me? This usta be my best friend.
Not only wasn't I his good friend anymore but why should he listen to me...sitting there drinking beer with him...when more "pure" christians couldn't get through to him?
I wasn't sure I wanted to tell that story since it brought a fair amount of shame to me...but I think its relevent.
I only got to page two and I seem to be repeating other posters so..I'll stop now.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/14/2008 8:47:49 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2972
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
The reason I gave only two choices is because really it is black and white, yes or no - either all alcohol consumption, no matter what, is a sin, or it is not a sin when taken in moderation.
It's not a yes or no question. Why? Because God said so.
Romans 14:
14 I know and am perfectly sure on the authority of the Lord Jesus that no food, in and of itself, is wrong to eat. But if someone believes it is wrong, then for that person it is wrong.
If the Holy Spirit convicts a person not to drink and they do it's a sin for that person. If the Holy Spirit does not convict a person on the issue but they have "doubts" it's wrong.
Romans 14:23 But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
There is also the sin of "presumption" that goes along with your black and white view of drinking. If an alcholoic who has been clean and sober for 5 years drinks - is that a sin?
The sin of presumption deals with putting yourself in known possible danger and expecting God to somehow come to your rescue. (many people did that with their mortages)
There is also the fact that some like myslef have made a vow. God tells us to keep our vows. So for someone to tell me that it's not a sin for me to drink is for them to be speaking out of ignorance.
< Message edited by P31W -- 8/14/2008 9:40:08 AM >
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/14/2008 9:00:26 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2972
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quote:
Do you eat pork? I find that offensive. Therefore, since I know that you eat pork, then you had better not eat it.
I know there are a couple of posters on the forum who have given up pork inorder to be more effective witness to their newly converted muslim friends.
There are legitimate reasons God put Romans 14 in our bible.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/14/2008 9:02:14 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3576
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
quote:
Will I mention wine to her again? No. If she asks me if I'm drinking, I'm going to ask her if she's still taking the Lord's name in vain.
This sounds like a good plan, IMO.
quote:
ORIGINAL: MindySue69
quote:
ORIGINAL: magiceraserbrush
MindySue9 Drinking is used in spiritual offering Exodus 29:40 but it is offensive to others you should no drink it Romans 14:21.
Do you eat pork? I find that offensive. Therefore, since I know that you eat pork, then you had better not eat it.
I love these!! 
quote:
ORIGINAL: magiceraserbrush
Drinking to much is wrong but Jesus Christ said that l;ittle wine wind is good for the stomach. He did?!?
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/14/2008 9:48:51 AM
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agapetos
Posts: 5384
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: This side of the lil duck pond!
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Isn't it a pity that so many will condem something as being wrong or evil while they have their own problems.
I drink now and again. I've had 2 drinks this year. I don't have a problem with it, nor with people who choose not to drink.
I do have a problem with people who say that alcohol is wrong while they drink copious amounts of caffiene-laced drinks (to the point of having withdrawal symptoms if they cut it out.
I used to go to church with someone who would go out with people he worked with and it was a revelation to some of his colleagues that, knowing he was a Christian, he would not only go into a pub, but have a drink. It gave them food for thought and many times questions were asked.
And IMO drinking and driving are a no-no.
But then speeding when driving is also a no-no.
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Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not using them in fruit salads!
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/14/2008 9:49:57 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2972
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
She is free to take the Lord's name in vain, because she doesn't see herself as doing it (probably says "The Lord knows I don't mean it that way...")
In days gone by didn't people believe it was a sin to say "good day"? or something to that effect because they believed it was taking the Lord's name in vain?
Someone once told me you take the Lord's name in vain when you call yourself a christian but don't act like Christ.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/14/2008 9:56:12 AM
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agapetos
Posts: 5384
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From: This side of the lil duck pond!
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Not sure about 'Good day', but I can remember reading one of Maya Angelou's books and she said her grandmother beat her for saying 'By the way' ~ because it was blasphemy.
_____________________________
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not using them in fruit salads!
My blog
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