RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country in history?
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 9:22:07 AM
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tafkam
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quote:
Quite so:
>Abu Hafs al-Masri (note - the al Qaeda group responsible for the Spanish terror bombins) supports the re-election campaign of President Bush: "We are very keen that Bush does not lose the upcoming elections." <
per your own beloved Fox News:
Dude, your ignore button appears ot be broken... 
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 10:02:08 AM
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leonfigg3
Posts: 343
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: leonfigg3
If you read Section 2, subsection 6 you may very well find the "lanugage" that supports my concern, and the concern of many people about this bill.
It requirs only a majority of the employees to petition for a union for that petition to be considered valid.
How is that majority arrived at?
Say I have 7 people working for me. Four of those seven meet together and decide they need a union. They get the cards, and file a petition. I not only soon find myself having to deal with a union I had no knowledge about, but so are my three other employees who had no knowledge about, and absolutely no voice in the matter, who may also have to pay the price because I can no longer afford to have them.
Frankly, I don't see your argument.
In your example, if your FOUR employees have already PUBLICLY *voted* for a union, a secret ballot is an exercise in foregone conclusions. AT LEAST the same four would vote 'yes', IF NOT ALL SEVEN - and simply confirm the PUBLIC *vote* already taken.
As I have been pointing out all along on this issue - trying to somehoe paint Obama's (and a majority of the rest of Congress, I might add)support for this bill as 'anti-democracy' is a subverted support error of rationale - the described phenomenum simply does not exist.
Hello dictatorship.
America, what people have long feared about our form of goverment is finally going to come to pass.
America, we are now finally and officially abolishing debate and discussion about any issue that may affect the common man. If the majority of the people are for something, at any given time, then that is the way it will be. The minority no longer has any kind of say what-so-ever in any shape or form. They just have to shut up and take it.
America, we are finally and official abolishing the notion of checks and ballances. We must sacrifice our freedoms for the sake of streamling procedures so that the will of the majority or the will of those who believe only they have the correct information and the answers to our problems could implement whatever they want, without waisting a moment on discussion of any kind.
And we have nothing to fear from Obama and those pushing him into the presidentcy?????
They, and only they know what is best for us, and we must all fall in lock step.
They are free to scare and intimidate others into accepting their way of thinking no matter how false/ manipulated/ contrived their information may be, because they (of course) have nothing to gain from THEIR lies-their distortion of the facts.
Any of this sound familiar to anyone???
"The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this dispostion to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty.
"Without look forward to an extrmeity of this kind, (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight,) the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it."--President George Washington's Farwell Address (Sept 17, 1796)
< Message edited by leonfigg3 -- 8/15/2008 10:25:04 AM >
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 10:13:35 AM
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todd_t
Posts: 1589
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From: The North Woods
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quote:
They are free to scare and intimidate others into accepting their way of thinking no matter how false/ manipulated/ contrived their information may be, because they (of course) have nothing to gain from THEIR lies-their distortion of the facts.
An A-1 indictment of Fox News, sir. I couldn't have put it better myself.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 10:21:17 AM
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todd_t
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quote:
You're awfully loose with the truth.
I could say the same about you concerning your selective memory in recalling Bush, Cheney, and Rice babbling about their famed "smoking gun that comes in the form of a mushroom cloud" which was their chief rhetorical argument (fear) for the US going into Iraq, not freeing its people from a tinpot dictator.
The latter was all window dressing.
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In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 10:22:19 AM
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tafkam
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I always find it amazing that Fox News is apparently the devil's spawn...
I'd sincerely love for someone to actually come out with a case of right wing bias in the Fox News reporting. A popular radio talk host in my town has had this challenge out for over two years, so far, no takers.
Barack Obama, like so many on the left, steadfastly refuses to come on many of Fox's shows because they know they will get asked the hard questions. As has been said time and again, if Barack Obama can't handle a few hard questions from Hannity or O'Reilly, how are we supposed to believe he'll be tough on Al Queada?
My respect level for Hillary actually went up a few notches when she appeared on The O'Reilly Factor. Granted it was too little to late to save a dying campaign, but she did go on, and in the process showed more stones than many of her male counterparts on the left...
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 10:27:06 AM
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todd_t
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quote:
I'd sincerely love for someone to actually come out with a case of right wing bias in the Fox News reporting.
Are you kidding me? Have you ever actually bothered to watch the network?
Fox is every bit as much in the tank for the GOP as MSNBC is for the Dems.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 10:29:07 AM
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tafkam
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Then perhaps you can explain why it was Fox who broke the story about George W.'s DUI arrest (and right before election time)
So you're basically saying that you can't provide any evidence of bias in Fox news reporting, correct?
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 10:40:24 AM
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todd_t
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quote:
So you're basically saying that you can't provide any evidence of bias in Fox news reporting, correct?
Right off the top of my head, the fact that Fox could not give the authors of "Unfit For Command" enough free air in 2004 is one tip-off, as is their recent love for Corsi's anti-Obama text (which is heavy on insinuation, and remarkably shallow on proof), plus the network's recent doctoring of two photos of two New York Times employees.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200807020002
Finally, there's the following stats comparing the volume of conservative guests on Fox News prime-time programming versus liberal ones:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200603300010
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 10:45:43 AM
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tafkam
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Oh, goody, more proof from a leftist website.
And the cases you mention regarding the "Unfit For Command" authors were from opinion shows, NOT the news broadcasts.
I'll be the first to grant that opinion shows are slighted, but I'm talking about the news reporting....
quote:
Finally, there's the following stats comparing the volume of conservative guests on Fox News prime-time programming versus liberal ones:
Again, you're talking about opinion shows. And very often liberal guests are invited but decline the invitation to speak.
Barack Obama is caught on video telling Bill O'Reilly that he will come on the Factor, but we're all still waiting. Again, is the man who wants to be President that intimidated by Bill O'Reilly? Give me a break...
Oh, and I know I asked the question, but we might want to take discussion of Fox News to a new thread, since we're fairly bobsledding off topic...
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 10:50:05 AM
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todd_t
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quote:
I'll be the first to grant that opinion shows are slighted, but I'm talking about the news reporting....
What's the difference?
It's all part of the same mass media machine - which is the problem with cable news networks (CNN, Fox, MSNBC) nowadays: it's difficult to tell where the "hard news" reporting stops, and the opinioneering begins.
quote:
Barack Obama is caught on video telling Bill O'Reilly that he will come on the Factor, but we're all still waiting. Again, is the man who wants to be President that intimidated by Bill O'Reilly?
Sorry to break this to you, but O'Reilly is a hack who regularly engages in cheap stunts like sending his interns out for "ambush interviews."
Indeed, the very model of high-minded journalism.
Were I Obama, I wouldn't waste my time with him either.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 10:51:35 AM
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tafkam
Posts: 2067
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You don't know the difference between a newscast and an opinion piece?
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 10:55:50 AM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 554
Joined: 1/18/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
I always find it amazing that Fox News is apparently the devil's spawn...
I'd sincerely love for someone to actually come out with a case of right wing bias in the Fox News reporting. A popular radio talk host in my town has had this challenge out for over two years, so far, no takers.
May I have the name of the radio station & host?
I'd like to share it with my friends - http://foxattacks.com/
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 10:56:29 AM
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todd_t
Posts: 1589
Joined: 6/21/2006
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quote:
You don't know the difference between a newscast and an opinion piece?
I repeat: with cable news networks (CNN, Fox, MSNBC) nowadays, it's difficult to tell where the "hard news" reporting stops, and the opinioneering begins.
It's all become a two-headed monster.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 11:09:17 AM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: leonfigg3
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: leonfigg3
If you read Section 2, subsection 6 you may very well find the "lanugage" that supports my concern, and the concern of many people about this bill.
It requirs only a majority of the employees to petition for a union for that petition to be considered valid.
How is that majority arrived at?
Say I have 7 people working for me. Four of those seven meet together and decide they need a union. They get the cards, and file a petition. I not only soon find myself having to deal with a union I had no knowledge about, but so are my three other employees who had no knowledge about, and absolutely no voice in the matter, who may also have to pay the price because I can no longer afford to have them.
Frankly, I don't see your argument.
In your example, if your FOUR employees have already PUBLICLY *voted* for a union, a secret ballot is an exercise in foregone conclusions. AT LEAST the same four would vote 'yes', IF NOT ALL SEVEN - and simply confirm the PUBLIC *vote* already taken.
As I have been pointing out all along on this issue - trying to somehoe paint Obama's (and a majority of the rest of Congress, I might add)support for this bill as 'anti-democracy' is a subverted support error of rationale - the described phenomenum simply does not exist.
Hello dictatorship.
America, what people have long feared about our form of goverment is finally going to come to pass.
America, we are now finally and officially abolishing debate and discussion about any issue that may affect the common man. If the majority of the people are for something, at any given time, then that is the way it will be. The minority no longer has any kind of say what-so-ever in any shape or form. They just have to shut up and take it.
America, we are finally and official abolishing the notion of checks and ballances. We must sacrifice our freedoms for the sake of streamling procedures so that the will of the majority or the will of those who believe only they have the correct information and the answers to our problems could implement whatever they want, without waisting a moment on discussion of any kind.
And we have nothing to fear from Obama and those pushing him into the presidentcy?????
They, and only they know what is best for us, and we must all fall in lock step.
They are free to scare and intimidate others into accepting their way of thinking no matter how false/ manipulated/ contrived their information may be, because they (of course) have nothing to gain from THEIR lies-their distortion of the facts.
Any of this sound familiar to anyone???
"The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this dispostion to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty.
"Without look forward to an extrmeity of this kind, (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight,) the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it."--President George Washington's Farwell Address (Sept 17, 1796)
The slippery-slope errors, amphigory of terms, subverted-support arguments, non sequitors, ad hominem injection of prejudicial language, compex question, false dilemma, false warnings of unacceptble consequences, slothful induction, hasty generalization, post hoc, begging the question, and straw man constitute a textbook-worthy example of muddled thinking. The process you describe simply does not equate to the conclusion you attribute to it, and all the heated rhetoric indicates that you realize it.
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 11:42:26 AM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
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Senator Impededemocracy (R-Big Business) Mr. President, we need a roll-call vote!!
President of the Senate - Why? The Chamber already passed the motion on a unanimous voice vote, without dissent.
SenatorImpededemocracy - What are you, one of those anti-democracy Communists?
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 12:06:37 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1057
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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Let me get this straight............... O'Reilly is a hack, thereby not worth an interview, but Kim Il (whatever the rest of his name is) of North Korea and Ahmadin...........(dittos above) of Iran are worthy to sit down with, no preconditions? Thanx for getting my mind straight about this.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
Sorry to break this to you, but O'Reilly is a hack who regularly engages in cheap stunts like sending his interns out for "ambush interviews."
Indeed, the very model of high-minded journalism.
Were I Obama, I wouldn't waste my time with him either.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 12:09:35 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1057
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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In the liberal media (ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NBC, and PBS) they are one and the same.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
You don't know the difference between a newscast and an opinion piece?
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 12:14:20 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 2067
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quote:
Sorry to break this to you, but O'Reilly is a hack who regularly engages in cheap stunts like sending his interns out for "ambush interviews."
I'm all for it! Corner some of these people outside of their scriptured comfort zones and press 'em a bit.
The fact is that many of the Dems went on other opinion shows (with FAR less viewership), yet ignore outfits like the Factor or Hannity which would put them in front of far MORE people. It makes no sense whatsoever. Hillary Clinton even made the comment that Fox News had been the most fair in it's coverage of her campaign, and that Bill O'Reilly treated her very well and was most fair.
As crazy as Dennis Kucinich is, he had no problem coming on any of the Fox shows. You're telling em the Democratic frontrunner has less guts than the village idiot?
< Message edited by tafkam -- 8/15/2008 12:29:54 PM >
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 12:37:16 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 766
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Oh, goody, more proof from a leftist website.
I don't think it's wise to have a political filter on your information intake. The politicization of information is a good way to fall in the tank and never come out.
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 12:46:51 PM
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tafkam
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Does that mean you're going to actually consider anything published by Townhall.com or WorldNetdaily?
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 12:47:36 PM
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ljmac
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
quote:
But if you recall, Bush's war cry (which began bubbling up in the Oval Office before 9-11) never said anything about going into Iraq to strike a blow for human rights.
I recall. You have selective memory.
The Commander repeatedly cited gross abuses of human rights by the Hussein well before the war. He spoke of children's prisons, using rape to terrorize political opponents, ordering mass murder, looting money from the UN destined for Iraqi people and systemic oppression. If that sounds like "never said anything," then B. Obama never said anything about change.
Here are some examples both from his speech to the UN and in others in the fall of 2002.
"The dictator of Iraq is a student of Stalin, using murder as a tool of terror and control, within his own cabinet, within his own army, and even within his own family."
"On Saddam Hussein's orders, opponents have been decapitated, wives and mothers of political opponents have been systematically raped as a method of intimidation, and political prisoners have been forced to watch their own children being tortured."
"...all people are entitled to hope and human rights, to the non-negotiable demands of human dignity. People everywhere prefer freedom to slavery; prosperity to squalor; self-government to the rule of terror and torture...The oppression of Kurds, Assyrians, Turkomans, Shi'a, Sunnis and others will be lifted. The long captivity of Iraq will end, and an era of new hope will begin."
"Freed from the weight of oppression, Iraq's people will be able to share in the progress and prosperity of our time."
"If the Iraqi regime wishes peace, it will immediately end all illicit trade outside the oil-for-food program. It will accept U.N. administration of funds from that program, to ensure that the money is used fairly and promptly for the benefit of the Iraqi people."
"His regime once ordered the killing of every person between the ages of 15 and 70 in certain Kurdish villages in northern Iraq. He has gassed many Iranians, and 40 Iraqi villages."
You're awfully loose with the truth.
Odd that even the so-called War Resolution - which Bush violated anyway - says absolutely nothing about these matters. Isn't that the sacred Legal Document that pro-Bush, pro-war partisans have been flogging as The Ultimate Source of Legality for Bush's ill-considered adventuring?
quote:
never
No. You're as wrong as Todd.
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 12:50:25 PM
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Rufas2000
Posts: 1314
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
I'm all for it! Corner some of these people outside of their scriptured comfort zones and press 'em a bit.
I'm not. I guess it isn't that bad in a public place but when they start going to people's homes and refuse to leave when asked several times it gets to be a little much (Wexler). I personally have never seen one where we found out anything interesting or new. Usually the target just gets mad or shuts down.
quote:
Hillary Clinton even made the comment that Fox News had been the most fair in it's coverage of her campaign.
True but that is due more to the other media outlets fawning coverage of Obama than anything. Decent always looks good next to junk.
I think the Fox News is biased boogeyman is a little overstated but I find it hard for anyone to make the case that their opinion pieces aren't predominantly conservative. Look at the hosts, the only two liberals who are regularly featured on shows (hosts or panel members) are Alan Colmes & Juan Williams. Kirsten Powers has been on some too but mostly as a guest. Geraldo Rivera might be a liberal but rarely discusses politics (except when arguing with O Reilly over immigration). Back to Juan Williams, even he has been more of a moderate lately (his appearances on O Reilly are little more than "me too" sessions but he still represents liberalism on Fox News Sunday).
As far as hard news goes, when do they have hard news? "Special Report" with Brit Hume would be one. Even that show has a panel with one or two conservatives and one or two moderates. I haven't seen the liberal position represented on that show but I don't watch it all the time. I watch it enough to know that a strong liberal on that panel is a rarity. I can't think of another hard news show.
"Fox and Friends", please. I don't think they know the difference between hard news, opinion pieces, news analysis and entertaining drivel. The other morning / early afternoon shows are more reality soap opera driven (but at least their hosts act reasonably intelligent). I guess Shepard Smith's shows are "hard news" but they slant more toward the entertainment end. For the record Shep is a moderate but he rarely gives political opinions on his show.
Fox News Sunday is a separate issue, being intended for the Fox broadcast network. Chris Wallace has done a superb job recently in grilling guests left and right (and I really hope that is what we want). The panel isn't horribly unbalanced. Brit Hume is a definite conservative but on the panel he plays somewhat to the middle on the road, Mara Liasson usually just discusses the story without being partisan, Bill Kristol is an absolute far right guy and Juan Williams is definitely left but not far left. At least not as far as Kristol is right.
That's my take. I just find it hard to watch Fox News and think "fair and balanced". They may be more balanced than other networks (I don't get a chance to watch them much) but I'm judging Fox on its own merits.
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Be my friend!
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 1:02:10 PM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 554
Joined: 1/18/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Does that mean you're going to actually consider anything published by Townhall.com or WorldNetdaily?
quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
I always find it amazing that Fox News is apparently the devil's spawn...
I'd sincerely love for someone to actually come out with a case of right wing bias in the Fox News reporting. A popular radio talk host in my town has had this challenge out for over two years, so far, no takers.
May I have the name of the radio station & host?
I'd like to share it with my friends - http://foxattacks.com/
May I have them, please?
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 1:06:12 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 766
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Does that mean you're going to actually consider anything published by Townhall.com or WorldNetdaily?
Yes, I will consider anything.
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/15/2008 1:08:35 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1589
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: The North Woods
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quote:
Does that mean you're going to actually consider anything published by Townhall.com or WorldNetdaily?
Speaking for myself, I've never read TownHall, and the only reason I visit WorldNutDaily is to get a good laugh.
That site is funnier than The Onion.
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In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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