Quotes vs. interpretations (Full Version)

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Carico -> Quotes vs. interpretations (8/7/2008 3:31:29 PM)

The bible is really easy to understand. It has to be because Jesus tells us he will reveal the truth to those who come to him like a little child. But unfortunately, it appears that many people don't know the difference between a quote and an interpretation and that is what comprises the majority of disagreements between Christians. If you don't know, you can consult your bible.

So the following is a quiz. let's see how many people can spot God's Word as opposed to interpretations by men:

1) a. Genesis 2:7, "The Lord God formed the man out of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and the man became a living being."
b. "The Lord God formed the man out of the wombs of wild beasts."

2) a. Matthew 23:9, "And call anyone on earth 'father' particularly your religious leaders, for you have many fathers."
b. "And do not call anyone on earth 'father' for you have one Father and he is in heaven."

3) a. Genesis 1:1, "four point five billion years ago, everything was formless and empty and the Spirit of God hovered over the emptiness until God created the heavens and the earth from a big explosion..."
b. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters."

4) a. MT. 1:25, "But he had no union with her forever."
b. "But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son."

5) a. John 1;1-2, "In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was the with God and the Word was God..."
b. "In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was not scripture. And the Word was not God."

Those who worship God, follow God's Word. Those who worship men follow the interpretations of men. But those who claim that the bible is not God's Word, have no idea where to find God's Word and thus can't know who He is. But this exercise will help separate the Word of God from the words of man which is the first step in knowing who God is and understanding His Word. One cannot discuss God until He has taken this first step. [sm=icon_smile.gif]



cow451 -> RE: Quotes vs. interpretations (8/7/2008 4:07:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Carico

The bible is really easy to understand. It has to be because Jesus tells us he will reveal the truth to those who come to him like a little child. But unfortunately, it appears that many people don't know the difference between a quote and an interpretation and that is what comprises the majority of disagreements between Christians.


It's so easy to understand that there are only about twenty modern (including KJV) English translations. Of course, I am certain that you know which one is the true one. Everybody knows the difference between a quotation and an interpretation. The disagreements among Christians have to do with interpretation. There seem to be two ways to interpret scripture:
1. Carico's way
2. the wrong way.



Conundrum -> RE: Quotes vs. interpretations (8/7/2008 4:40:12 PM)

1. B
2. A
3. A
4. A
5. B

How'd I do? [8D]

Seriously, though, you are talking about interpretation on both sides. While I agree with most of your interpretations, there are others that I don't agree with, and still others I'm undecided on.



DougHorton -> RE: Quotes vs. interpretations (8/7/2008 5:03:52 PM)

You seem to have an ax to grind that has has more to do with your point of view than scripture.



Carico -> RE: Quotes vs. interpretations (8/7/2008 7:26:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

quote:

ORIGINAL: Carico

The bible is really easy to understand. It has to be because Jesus tells us he will reveal the truth to those who come to him like a little child. But unfortunately, it appears that many people don't know the difference between a quote and an interpretation and that is what comprises the majority of disagreements between Christians.


It's so easy to understand that there are only about twenty modern (including KJV) English translations. Of course, I am certain that you know which one is the true one. Everybody knows the difference between a quotation and an interpretation. The disagreements among Christians have to do with interpretation. There seem to be two ways to interpret scripture:
1. Carico's way
2. the wrong way.

Well then I guess you're fresh out of luck in knowing who God is since you don't know where to find His word. [;)]

But I know they don't disagree with each other because none of them contradict any other scripture. So I do know where to find God's Word and therefore am qualified to discuss Him. [;)]



Carico -> RE: Quotes vs. interpretations (8/7/2008 7:31:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DougHorton

You seem to have an ax to grind that has has more to do with your point of view than scripture.

I'm sure that false teachers don't bother many present-day Christians. But they bothered Jesus, they bothered Peter and Paul and they bother me. But one can't spot a false teacher if he can't discern between God's Word and the interpretations of men. So people who don't know God's Word will be easily deceived, and by the anti-Christ as well since they don't know the difference between God's Word and Satan. Only people who want to know God care whether or not they're deceived. And judging by your comment and the comments of many here, not many people care whether or they're deceived.And that's why they don't know where to find God's Word. And until they do, they're not qualified to discuss Him. It's that simple. [;)]



DougHorton -> RE: Quotes vs. interpretations (8/8/2008 11:18:37 AM)

I would urge you to withhold judgement about just who is being deceived.

I may agree with every one of your statements, or I may disagree. However, I do sense in your post a hostile attitude that is not conducive to a free and open discussion.

What is it that has angered you?



Carico -> RE: Quotes vs. interpretations (8/8/2008 8:17:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DougHorton

I would urge you to withhold judgement about just who is being deceived.

I may agree with every one of your statements, or I may disagree. However, I do sense in your post a hostile attitude that is not conducive to a free and open discussion.

What is it that has angered you?


You are incorrect which is why I use smiley faces. [;)]But when someone doesn't like the message they blame the messenger. That gets a little tiring. So you need to remember that our struggle is not against flesh and blood. So please don't make it one and just stick to the topic. If you get personal again, I'll simply ignore you. [sm=icon_smile.gif]



GrahamCracker -> RE: Quotes vs. interpretations (8/8/2008 9:09:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Carico

The bible is really easy to understand. It has to be because Jesus tells us he will reveal the truth to those who come to him like a little child. But unfortunately, it appears that many people don't know the difference between a quote and an interpretation and that is what comprises the majority of disagreements between Christians. If you don't know, you can consult your bible.


Really? All of it or just some of it?Peter said there are some things hard to understand.

15 "and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,

16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. " (2 Pet 3:15-16, NASB)



Carico -> RE: Quotes vs. interpretations (8/8/2008 9:52:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Carico

The bible is really easy to understand. It has to be because Jesus tells us he will reveal the truth to those who come to him like a little child. But unfortunately, it appears that many people don't know the difference between a quote and an interpretation and that is what comprises the majority of disagreements between Christians. If you don't know, you can consult your bible.


Really? All of it or just some of it?Peter said there are some things hard to understand.

15 "and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,

16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. " (2 Pet 3:15-16, NASB)

Peter is talking about solid food. I'm talking about milk. And one can't know what the bible means until he first knows what the bible actually says. But as I demonstrated in my post, most people don't even know that yet. [8|]The words in the bible we all learned in elementary school. The bible uses words like "it", "but', "the, "you" "cannot, etc. they're not hard. But it's precisely those words that people change as I illustrated in my OP. [;)]

For example Genesis 2:7, "For the Lord God formed the man out of the dust of the ground and breathed in his nostrils the breath of life and the man became a living being." Again, simple enough for a child to understand. So the problem isn't in understanding the bible, the problem is most people just plain don't BELIEVE the bible. If they believed that phrase they would know that man was created out of the dust of the ground which is precisely why we revert back to dust when our flesh and bones decay.

But instead, people say, "God couldn't do that! that's impossible!" which is a complete lack of faith. So they change that verse to read; "For the Lord God formed the man from the wombs of apes", which that verse doesn't say at all. " What they don't realize is that's what's impossible because apes don't breed human descendants in reality nor is it possible for them to do so. They don't know that monkeys or apes can't turn into humans because Satan is deceiving them into thinking that apes can turn into humans. So they believe Satan over God.

So as 1 Corinthians 2:14 says; "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from God for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them because they're spiritually discerned."

So the bible is easy enough for a child to understand because as Jesus tells us, only those who come to him like a little child have the faith to believe. But those who claim to be 'wise and learned" can't believe because Jesus tells us in MT 11:25-27, that God will hide the truth from them. [;)] And that's why the "wise and learned" distort, twist, change and look up words in the Hebrew and Greek and make the bible so complex that it's totally and completely unrecognizable as my OP demonstrated. But little children don't. They simply believe. So only when you enter the kingdom like a child will you understand the bible.[;)]



GrahamCracker -> RE: Quotes vs. interpretations (8/9/2008 6:07:21 PM)

So was Peter on milk then? Or do you think he understood everything Paul said?



Carico -> RE: Quotes vs. interpretations (8/9/2008 8:13:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker

So was Peter on milk then? Or do you think he understood everything Paul said?


As I said, solid food is the beginning of a lifetime process after one is off milk. And milk are the simple words in the bible. After one has understood words like, "but," "you," "is", "cannot" which comprises most of the words int he bible, then he is ready to look for the spiritual truths underneath the simple everyday words. But unfortunately, the majority of Christians sill have a hard time understanding those simple words or they wouldn't keep changing them, in most cases into their opposite as my OP demonstrated. So since Peter already believed those simple words and didn't change them, he was well into eating solid food. [sm=icon_smile.gif]

For example, since Peter believed the simple words in Genesis 1:1, he knew that the earth was created out of water. He then could build on that truth by understanding why the earth was created from water and thus that the Flood was the first water baptism. But those who change the simple words in Genesis 1:1 into, "4.5 billion years ago, God created the earth from an explosion" can never understand why water is the life-giving source and thus why the Flood was the first water baptism. One can build only on the truth. So the simple words in the bible first have to be believed before one is ready to understand the rest of the bible. [;)]



GrahamCracker -> RE: Quotes vs. interpretations (8/9/2008 8:40:00 PM)

Carico,

Back to my original response.

I agree that many concepts in the Bible are simple, but that doesn't make them easy. Peter didn't qualify his words by saying "milk is easy." Some of Paul's words were hard to understand and they still are. Not all, of course. Some are rather straightforward, but lots of others are not.

We have a number of idioms that are foreign to our ears and a number of concepts that are culturally much different to ours. There are analogies, metaphors and symbols contained in the Bible. Further, I like the term "context heavy," which means that without knowing the context the words of the writer will be impossible to understand clearly.

It is certainly true that many people do not have a sincere interest in learning. Still others want to learn but don't want to put forth effort commensurate with what is demanded. Still others simply don't have the skill for it. And, yes, there are many small key words that are easily overlooked because their relative importance is not realized. But again, that comes with study.



lola_granola -> RE: Quotes vs. interpretations (8/10/2008 8:10:15 AM)

"I'm sure that false teachers don't bother many present-day Christians. But they bothered Jesus, they bothered Peter and Paul and they bother me. But one can't spot a false teacher if he can't discern between God's Word and the interpretations of men. So people who don't know God's Word will be easily deceived, and by the anti-Christ as well since they don't know the difference between God's Word and Satan. Only people who want to know God care whether or not they're deceived. And judging by your comment and the comments of many here, not many people care whether or they're deceived.And that's why they don't know where to find God's Word. And until they do, they're not qualified to discuss Him. It's that simple. [;)]"


Wow, Carico, how do you carry that ego around?



Carico -> RE: Quotes vs. interpretations (8/10/2008 8:41:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lola_granola

"I'm sure that false teachers don't bother many present-day Christians. But they bothered Jesus, they bothered Peter and Paul and they bother me. But one can't spot a false teacher if he can't discern between God's Word and the interpretations of men. So people who don't know God's Word will be easily deceived, and by the anti-Christ as well since they don't know the difference between God's Word and Satan. Only people who want to know God care whether or not they're deceived. And judging by your comment and the comments of many here, not many people care whether or they're deceived.And that's why they don't know where to find God's Word. And until they do, they're not qualified to discuss Him. It's that simple. [;)]"


Wow, Carico, how do you carry that ego around?

So then you don't know where to find God's word either. Is that correct? If so, then how can you know who he is? The answer is that you can't.

So how is having faith having a large ego? [sm=sadquestion.gif] In fact, since faith is a gift from God,then I can't take credit for it at all. So you are in error. [;)] Paul and Jesus want us to have faith. But Satan and his servants do not. Do you want your fellow Christians to have faith? or would you prefer that we doubt who God is, where to find him and His words? " [sm=sadquestion.gif]



Carico -> RE: Quotes vs. interpretations (8/10/2008 8:52:40 AM)

The arguments of people here trying to justify why we shouldn't believe the bible as written but instead, change the words in it to suit our own desires, are ridiculous. By the reasoning of most people here, we should throw the bible away and rewrite it our own way then claim that God said it.[8|] So people here prove my OP's true that people don't know the difference between God's word and people's interpretations of it.

So since most people here haven't learned the elementary principle that we need to first know what God said in order to believe him, then no one can have a meaningful discussion about Jesus until they've taken that first step. So I'm moving on to forums where they at least know where to find the word of God so they can believe it and have gotten past that first elementary principle. Your arguments are absurd. Good-bye. [8|]



Stephanos -> RE: Quotes vs. interpretations (8/10/2008 11:50:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Carico

The arguments of people here trying to justify why we shouldn't believe the bible as written but instead, change the words in it to suit our own desires, are ridiculous. By the reasoning of most people here, we should throw the bible away and rewrite it our own way then claim that God said it.[8|] So people here prove my OP's true that people don't know the difference between God's word and people's interpretations of it.

So since most people here haven't learned the elementary principle that we need to first know what God said in order to believe him, then no one can have a meaningful discussion about Jesus until they've taken that first step. So I'm moving on to forums where they at least know where to find the word of God so they can believe it and have gotten past that first elementary principle. Your arguments are absurd. Good-bye. [8|]


So, you ask a biased loaded question, then get upset when we call you on your motives? The fact is, you asked things and brought things up that most christians DO know. Not only that, but you did so in a condescending manner, rather than have a thoughtful discussion on the need to get back to the truth of the bible, which I fully agree with.

BTW, do you know Hebrew or Greek? Because if you are interested in getting back to what the bible says, THAT is the way to go. Just wondering if you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.



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