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RE: How Important is the Church? - 8/7/2008 11:24:40 AM
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budlawry
Posts: 5
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The teachings of the Bible, must be taken, as a whole, and not quoted one verse at a time.
All of the verse's apply, in every situation, and I know this full well.
I will never point to just one verse, or even one Chapter, since this could taken, out of context.
There will always be different viewepoints, for this is written, but, the story of God's word, must be taken, as a whole.
As for explanations, as to every written word, this would fill volumes, and I lack the literary knowledge, to adequately explain all. This I would not even attempt.
No, I will have to be content, to just read, I guess.
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Bud Lawry
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RE: How Important is the Church? - 8/7/2008 11:49:13 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
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quote:
ORIGINAL: budlawry
The teachings of the Bible, must be taken, as a whole, and not quoted one verse at a time.
I understand that and that is, in part, why I quoted two verses by two different NT authors that confirmed each other. If you feel that those verses mean something different, feel free to say so and we'll discuss it further.
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RE: How Important is the Church? - 8/7/2008 12:04:59 PM
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crankius
Posts: 4467
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quote:
The issue, I have, with the Organization, is listing to their surmons, knowing full well, that they mock, God, being that there true heart felt feelings, are anything, but, Good.
I have never attended a church that mocked God. You have a very negative view of church, and I believe it is based on your personal experience. There are bad churches and there are good churches. It sounds like you were in a bad one, and it was one you grew up in so you didn't choose it.
Today, if you truly desired to be a working part of the Body of Christ, you could search for a Biblical church based on Biblical criteria.
You could then submit to your elders and exercise your part of the Body and enjoy fellowship and accountability with your brothers and sisters in Christ.
Or, are you saying you have no need for the Body?
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: How Important is the Church? - 8/7/2008 12:11:33 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
Or, are you saying you have no need for the Body?
That caused a vivid word picture to me when I read it.
Since Christ is the Head, we are parts that make up the Body. If a body part gets separated we call it.... dead tissue. Like lopping off a finger - the rest of the body, while suffering pain at the loss, goes on living but the finger, cut off from the rest, dies and rots away.
Something to think about....
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RE: How Important is the Church? - 8/7/2008 1:19:07 PM
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budlawry
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I find it of interest, that something said, can be so taken out of context.
Is the following of Jesus's teachings, something to be argued about?
I do not avoid the body of Christ, in this context, the Church. I spoke NOT about the Church, as a whole, mocking God, But, the individual, who was giving the sermon, exhorting the memebers, not to follow evil ways, yet, in his own life, he did just the opposite. He mixed evil ways, with the Good, and made no excuses for it. What is it said, about attempting to serve two masters?
In my non-secular ways, I had plenty of experience with this teaching, it was called managed truth.
White lies, are anything but, white. The funniest thing about this, are the times, when these managed truths come back to haunt the truth manager. In time, everything becomes known, despite our best efforts, to keep that from happening.
How does arguement, do anything for the Body of Christ? How does this bring soul's to Christ?
I think, way too much importance, is placed upon organized religion. It takes many people, to effectively run an organization, and when its grows so large, there is bound to be folks, who have their own agenda. The vast amounts of monies, can have its own affect, upon human's, judgement can become clouded, very easily.
Control becomes a nightmare, you can only hope for God's intervention, that each individual, will seek God's Good, and not their own.
Power, can be a master, all to its own. Along with power comes a sense of judgement, judgement can be a two edge sword, can it not? Since I could not in good faith, knowingly deceive others, when I knew what the real truth to be. Those placed at the top of the power chain, wanted to build monuments, unto themselves, and this became their highest focus, and all else paled in comparison.
They had no problem wielding the power against me, or, my Brother. I was insignificant and so was my Brother.
How this affected anyone else, was of no matter to them. I, we, dared to stand up for the Teachings of Christ, and not bow to their demands. This can be only, a good thing, can it not?
Can I say to others, I come to raise monies for feeding starving families, and know full well, that this money will be used for other purposes? Purpose's, that serve no one, but, the retiring head master, who was over me?
Can I say to the families of imprisoned men, that we will help them with these monies, yet, know that it will never go to them?
Can I say to God, who put upon my heart, to support these families, no ! It was not a deicision taken lightly, to refuse the orders of my superiors, but, one made, after much prayer, much discussion with others, who were in the know, inside of the inner circle. What was I to do, follow my heart, which is solely for Jesus, or, follow the World.
Just as my Brother, I had a family to support, their considerations, had to be taken into account, as well.
In affect, I practised, managed truth, I said nothing more, to any of those, with whom, I had come in contact with, I simply went silient. They themselves, deduced the outcome, and not only were the monies not raised, but, donations suffered, for a long time afterward. This, was as I believed, God's final word, upon their actions, the powers to be, suffered, from no monies, to be spent.
My suffering, was added too, by my Brothers death, then my Fathers.
Without Christ, I would have died, a long time ago, by my own hand, and this of course, is not the teachings of Christ.
You may think, I write thses things, lightheartedly, but, this is not the case.
I thought, that by coming unto this website, I would see words of uplifting, encouragement, instead, I see only, human judgement
I pray no non believer, may visit this site, for it serves no good purpose, this would not turn men's soul's to Christ, but, rather demonstrate descention, among presumed believer's.
Rail, if you must, but, you wander in the desert, not the light.
Good day, and God Bless
_____________________________
Bud Lawry
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RE: How Important is the Church? - 8/7/2008 1:29:49 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4274
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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I don't think the man in the video or John Piper is talking about organized religion.
They are admonishing the Church (Big C as in body of Christ) to understand how important it is they put action behind their words. The importance of preaching the Gospel to the world, etc.
At least that's what I heard.
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RE: How Important is the Church? - 8/7/2008 9:39:36 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3396
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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quote:
exhorting the memebers, not to follow evil ways, yet, in his own life, he did just the opposite
I understand the sentiment here, however, you do know that pastors are people too?
I think...maybe...your expectations might be a little high.
I expect my pastor to preach the gospel, live it the best way he can and repent when he messes up. I don't expcet him to be any more perfect than I am.
IF...a church preaches and practices hypocracy....there are other churches to go to.....
there just aren't any perfect churches.
quote:
I think, way too much importance, is placed upon organized religion. It takes many people, to effectively run an organization, and when its grows so large, there is bound to be folks, who have their own agenda.
I was in a smallish church, 300 or so, and the pastor certainly was in charge, not a big deaconship and not that many in adminsitration...and that pastor was a crook and an adulterer. It doesn;t take big....to be corrupt.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: How Important is the Church? - 8/7/2008 11:08:51 PM
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atruefaith
Posts: 320
Joined: 6/18/2005
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quote:
I find it of interest, that something said, can be so taken out of context.
Agreed. Which is what you have done here. The original question I posted used a video to help define the context of my question, it was not meant to answer every pet-peeve you have about the church. You have assumed things that are simply aren't true about a man you do not know based on three minutes of a sermon that you have not heard...in context.
If you still insist on gripping about it, the least you can do is listen to the whole sermon and then start your own thread on the evils of this or that.
Here's where the whole sermon can be found:
http://www.livingwatercc.org/Audio2008/3Aug08.mp3
Furthermore, you fight against Scripture and therefore Christ when you make excuses as to why you are resistant to join a church body.
quote:
I thought, that by coming unto this website, I would see words of uplifting, encouragement, instead, I see only, human judgement
I pray no non believer, may visit this site, for it serves no good purpose, this would not turn men's soul's to Christ, but, rather demonstrate descention, among presumed believer's.
Well, at least you can't be accused of not spreading "uplifting and encouraging words" and for being divisive. 
< Message edited by Conquered -- 8/7/2008 11:19:22 PM >
_____________________________
A series of short stories depicting the Christian faith....
www.atruefaith.com
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RE: How Important is the Church? - 8/12/2008 9:20:10 PM
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fallenstar
Posts: 129
Joined: 11/29/2007
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I don't like going to church. I dislike the oppinionated people, the fashion contests, and the stuffy indoors. I prefer to worship in a group outside in the forrest. Much closer to my spiritual side.
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RE: How Important is the Church? - 8/12/2008 9:58:36 PM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 716
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
Status: offline
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quote:
So what are your thoughts on the necessity of the church - particularly in light of the decline of the Western Church?
The Church was important enough for Jesus to die for. Gnostics turn in upon themselves and their mystical trances. Christians rejoice to participate in a supernatural family.
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The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
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RE: How Important is the Church? - 8/12/2008 10:10:16 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1778
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Conquered
So what are your thoughts on the necessity of the church - particularly in light of the decline of the Western Church?
I did not watch the video, but I will address your questions.
As to "the necessity" of the Church (capital "C") it is God Himself who has purposed to establish the Church (the Body of Christ) for His own eternal praise and glory (Eph. 1:1-22). The Church on earth must believe this and act on this principle.
As to "the Western Church" it would be more accurate to speak of "Western churches" since there are so many divisions within Christendom. Churches in North America have generally departed from the NT pattern.
God intended the local assembly to be a family with "fathers" (and "mothers), "young men" (and "young women") and "little children". See 1 Jn. 2:12-14. Most churches today do not operate as loving families working together for the glory of God.
This pattern was firstly destroyed by the RCC and EOC by establishing "clergy" vs "laity". Then it was destroyed by the Protestant denominations through their willingness to mix Church and State as well as through their denominational bureaucracies. Then it was destroyed by the mega-churches with their emphasis on staggering numbers. Then it was destroyed by "seeker-friendly" churches. Then it was destroyed by trying to make churches into corporations and organizations instead of organisms. And the list goes on.
The local church -- according to Scripture -- has a very definite purpose, and is essential for every believer (Acts 2:41-47). But as long as modern Christians are willing to let the world and the traditions of men dictate as to how a local assembly should be constituted, the Church -- the Body of Christ -- will continue to suffer and fail to fulfill its mandate -- to preach the Gospel to every creature and to edify the saints to become conformed to the likeness of Christ (Mk. 16:15,16; Eph. 4:1-16)).
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And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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