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To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 7:28:53 AM
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sunshinesoprano
Posts: 997
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From: Georgia
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Monday afternoon I opened an invitation to my best friend since 7th grade's "Union Ceremony."
Once I stared at it for a while and realized what it was, I burst into tears.
I never really thought about what I'd do if he ever did this.
I really dislike his "partner" because he's closed-minded, has intentionally put a distance between my friend and myself and our other friend. Just a lot of reasons. I'm not the only one who thinks this, either.
He knows I disagree with his "lifestyle" and that I think it's just plain sin, but knows that I will always love him and that I'll always be there for him.
I'm praying dilligently about what I should do regarding attending this union ceremony.
I have a difficult time even thinking about going to something and looking like I'm supporting something that I KNOW God will not bless or be in.
But I'm also afraid that if I don't go, I'll look like the judgmental Christian who wasn't really a friend in the first place.
I'm definitely leaning toward not going, sending a nice card wishing God's grace on his life and leaving it at that.
Any thoughts?
_____________________________
Pure Heart-Fresh, Progressive Southern Gospel
Sing, laugh, love, PRAISE!
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 7:43:12 AM
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csl7037
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I think it would be so difficult to word your sentiments in that card well...where do you start? But I do think that's probably the best course. If it were me, I couldn't go to something like that either. You might be in a no-win situation with this friend and praying for him might be all that's left for you to do.
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 7:53:30 AM
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manda59
Posts: 5438
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If it was my friend, I'd go.
He'd know that I was not there because I agreed with the ceremony, but for him. And if ever things went wrong with his relationship with this partner, he'd know he could come to me.
Jesus went to places frequented by sinners - he didn't stay away out of what it might look like.
And neither would I.
_____________________________
"That's what I would say as well."
Mrs Wifey, August 2008.
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 9:03:43 AM
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bluestone
Posts: 2934
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Tough one. And a question more of us will be forced to think about in the coming years.
If you go, it looks as thought you condone the situation.
If you don't , you risk destroying a relationship.
I was in this type of situation two years ago. I was invited, and the young person in this relationship was the daughter of very dear friends of mine. I had watched her grow up. The parents begged me to go, as few would be attending.
I didn't. I felt I would be justifying sin.
Relationship ruined.
I don't know if I did the right thing or not, but I felt like a heel. Yet, if I had gone, I think I would have felt worse.
_____________________________
I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 9:13:48 AM
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sudden
Posts: 116
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From: Toronto
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
If it was my friend, I'd go.
He'd know that I was not there because I agreed with the ceremony, but for him. And if ever things went wrong with his relationship with this partner, he'd know he could come to me.
Jesus went to places frequented by sinners - he didn't stay away out of what it might look like.
And neither would I.
_____________________________
I will lie down in rest and sleep and peace, for thou, O Lord, only makest me to dwell in safety.
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 10:09:23 AM
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buckifn
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He already knows how you feel about it so I don't think any other response is needed. IMO sending a card is saying a sinful relationship is ok, and I would not send one.
If anything I would return the invitation . He was wrong to send it knowing what your stance is imo.
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 10:12:55 AM
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CheshireMuse
Posts: 82
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I would go, and wouldn't worry one tiny bit about what other people thought.
All this talk about "if I go, it will look like I'm condoning sin" stuff.... Did Jesus worry about that when he had dinner with prostitutes and tax collectors? No.... He went to where they were and He loved them - regardless of what the community thought.
Another poster mentioned that this is a scenerio we're all going to be facing with increasing frequency, now that same sex unions are legal in some states. So, how do we handle this?
I have several friends who are gay. They know my views on their lifestyle, but it's their choice to make. I love them because they are wonderful people - caring, kind, funny, intelligent.... and we talk freely about my faith and their own world views.
A preacher told me once that we may be the only Bible some people will ever read - what message do you want to convey?
Compassion, love and forgiveness are the things that led me to Christ.... Threats of hell, damnation and wrath kept me from Him.....I'd like for the message of my life to be the former, rather than the latter.
You say you have a hard time going to something that you know God will not bless or have a hand in.... So, let me ask you a question: If you were friends with a heterosexual couple who were staunch atheists, would you boycott that wedding? After all, God wouldn't have a hand in that union either.... Would attending their wedding mean that you condoned atheism?
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshinesoprano
Monday afternoon I opened an invitation to my best friend since 7th grade's "Union Ceremony."
Once I stared at it for a while and realized what it was, I burst into tears.
I never really thought about what I'd do if he ever did this.
I really dislike his "partner" because he's closed-minded, has intentionally put a distance between my friend and myself and our other friend. Just a lot of reasons. I'm not the only one who thinks this, either.
He knows I disagree with his "lifestyle" and that I think it's just plain sin, but knows that I will always love him and that I'll always be there for him.
I'm praying dilligently about what I should do regarding attending this union ceremony.
I have a difficult time even thinking about going to something and looking like I'm supporting something that I KNOW God will not bless or be in.
But I'm also afraid that if I don't go, I'll look like the judgmental Christian who wasn't really a friend in the first place.
I'm definitely leaning toward not going, sending a nice card wishing God's grace on his life and leaving it at that.
Any thoughts?
_____________________________
Peace,
Muse
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 10:13:31 AM
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bluestone
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i don't think this is about "what people will think"
It is about lending legitimacy to a very illigitmate relationship.
Condoning sin with our presence at the event.
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 10:36:39 AM
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deermousie
Posts: 1498
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
Jesus went to places frequented by sinners - he didn't stay away out of what it might look like.
And neither would I.
OK, I'm jumping on the bandwagon:
What Manda said. 
Here's the Scripture that gives the principle for this:
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.
1 Cor. 5
So go. Your friend knows how you feel, and knows the light within you. It tugs at him, hopefully. Pray like crazy; it's a spiritual battle. If he's not fed up with his sin yet, he probably will be eventually and will need some answers. That's your part.
If he claimed to be a Christian himself, it would change the answer: I wouldn't go. I wouldn't even eat a hamburger with him. We excommunicate people for things like this, to give them a visual aid of what it means to be rejected by God, so they'll want to get rid of their sin and get right with God again. The goal is always reconciliation with God and turning away from sin.
May God bless you and your friend and his "partner." God has saved worse people than this and His arm is not foreshortened so that He can't save. I am praying for all three of you today; may God be glorified in the grace He gives.
_____________________________
Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 10:46:17 AM
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sunshinesoprano
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From: Georgia
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I don't care what people think about me if I go. That wasn't my issue at all.
They've known where I've stood and I even point blank asked his "partner," how being raised as a Southern Baptist by a Southern Baptist preacher he reconciled the whole "abomination" concept.
His reply was, "Well, if God is love, and two people love each other, then God is in it."
My reply was, "My son, you are deceived."
They know my stance. I've nothing to hide or prove by going or not going.
I want my friend to be happy and fulfilled, there's no doubt. I will love him no matter what happens, as I told him when he came out to me.
But, there are things that make people happy that aren't good for them.
I'm also not saying that I don't want to be there because he's a sinner...I hate it when someone quotes that "Jesus hung out with sinners" verse to me.
Obviously, the only way you can reach someone is by talking to them. But we were also wanred to be careful. It's much easier for filth to rub off on you than clean to rub onto someone else.
Bluestone pretty much sums up my quandry. I want the very best for my friend...and the very best is Jesus. Part of me feels like going would be condoning this relationship. The other part feels like I'd be abandoning my friend.
Part of my other concern is that I think his "partner" is bad news for him.
The fact that I was in love with my friend for most of our friendship makes it worse.
As for whether I'd attend the marriage of two athiest friends being married: the situation hasn't arisen and I'd have to think about that, too.
To me it equates with watching someone jump off a bridge while you're bound by duct tape and unable to save them.
_____________________________
Pure Heart-Fresh, Progressive Southern Gospel
Sing, laugh, love, PRAISE!
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 11:18:59 AM
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CheshireMuse
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I disagree. Did Jesus' presence with prostitutes "legitimize" selling sex for money? Attending that ceremony no more makes the OP a supporter of same-sex unions any more than attending a NASCAR race makes me a race car....
But, hey.... to each his or her own....
quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
i don't think this is about "what people will think"
It is about lending legitimacy to a very illigitmate relationship.
Condoning sin with our presence at the event.
_____________________________
Peace,
Muse
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 11:23:58 AM
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CheshireMuse
Posts: 82
Joined: 8/23/2007
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Since you feel so strongly about this, then my advice to you is to do yourself (and your friend) a favor and stay home.
If you go, you will obviously be miserable....
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshinesoprano
I don't care what people think about me if I go. That wasn't my issue at all.
They've known where I've stood and I even point blank asked his "partner," how being raised as a Southern Baptist by a Southern Baptist preacher he reconciled the whole "abomination" concept.
His reply was, "Well, if God is love, and two people love each other, then God is in it."
My reply was, "My son, you are deceived."
They know my stance. I've nothing to hide or prove by going or not going.
I want my friend to be happy and fulfilled, there's no doubt. I will love him no matter what happens, as I told him when he came out to me.
But, there are things that make people happy that aren't good for them.
I'm also not saying that I don't want to be there because he's a sinner...I hate it when someone quotes that "Jesus hung out with sinners" verse to me.
Obviously, the only way you can reach someone is by talking to them. But we were also wanred to be careful. It's much easier for filth to rub off on you than clean to rub onto someone else.
Bluestone pretty much sums up my quandry. I want the very best for my friend...and the very best is Jesus. Part of me feels like going would be condoning this relationship. The other part feels like I'd be abandoning my friend.
Part of my other concern is that I think his "partner" is bad news for him.
The fact that I was in love with my friend for most of our friendship makes it worse.
As for whether I'd attend the marriage of two athiest friends being married: the situation hasn't arisen and I'd have to think about that, too.
To me it equates with watching someone jump off a bridge while you're bound by duct tape and unable to save them.
_____________________________
Peace,
Muse
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 11:29:28 AM
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manda59
Posts: 5438
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
Yet, if I had gone, I think I would have felt worse.
To me, taking the right course of action is more important than how I might feel.
_____________________________
"That's what I would say as well."
Mrs Wifey, August 2008.
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 11:29:30 AM
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Focusing
Posts: 5368
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"hate the sin, love the sinner" is what comes to my mind ...
While you don't agree with your friend's lifestyle, you still love him, yes? Then go. Be his friend. It is his life and his choice and a decision he has made. You can choose to continue being a shining light in his life. Sowing seeds ...
_____________________________
<-- the prelude to a summer dust storm
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 11:33:36 AM
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manda59
Posts: 5438
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From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
i don't think this is about "what people will think"
It is about lending legitimacy to a very illigitmate relationship.
Condoning sin with our presence at the event.
Hey, maybe we should just never step outside our houses then?!
When I climbed into a derelict burned-out hotel and took food and toiletries to heroin addicts who were living there, was I condoning their lifestyle?
When I went in to a pub one night with a few friends, and sang Christian songs together, even though the majority of folks were very drunk, was I condoning what they were doing?
When I was in a local park, and sat down to talk with a group of homeless alcoholics, was I condoning how they were living?
To me this is no different.
_____________________________
"That's what I would say as well."
Mrs Wifey, August 2008.
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 11:34:14 AM
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CheshireMuse
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One last thing....
You said that you equated this (and the atheist scenerio) to being duct taped and helpless while someone jumps off a bridge...
Wow....
Did it ever occur to you that it isn't your responsibility to "save" anyone?
People are going to do what they're going to do - things we agree with and things we don't agree with....
Sometimes our friends will do things that we know to be mistakes... at that point we have a choice to make - we can sever the relationship or we can continue to love them, knowing that we may be called upon to pick up the pieces when this sin finally breaks them. Either choice costs us something.
Look, I'm not trying to condemn you for whatever choice you make.... I've been on both ends of this situation.... I've had to let friends go because I was simply not strong enough to handle the array of drama, and I've stuck it out too.....
Personally, after seeing the quandry you find yourself in, it seems to me that it would be kinder to both of you for you to not attend.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshinesoprano
I don't care what people think about me if I go. That wasn't my issue at all.
They've known where I've stood and I even point blank asked his "partner," how being raised as a Southern Baptist by a Southern Baptist preacher he reconciled the whole "abomination" concept.
His reply was, "Well, if God is love, and two people love each other, then God is in it."
My reply was, "My son, you are deceived."
They know my stance. I've nothing to hide or prove by going or not going.
I want my friend to be happy and fulfilled, there's no doubt. I will love him no matter what happens, as I told him when he came out to me.
But, there are things that make people happy that aren't good for them.
I'm also not saying that I don't want to be there because he's a sinner...I hate it when someone quotes that "Jesus hung out with sinners" verse to me.
Obviously, the only way you can reach someone is by talking to them. But we were also wanred to be careful. It's much easier for filth to rub off on you than clean to rub onto someone else.
Bluestone pretty much sums up my quandry. I want the very best for my friend...and the very best is Jesus. Part of me feels like going would be condoning this relationship. The other part feels like I'd be abandoning my friend.
Part of my other concern is that I think his "partner" is bad news for him.
The fact that I was in love with my friend for most of our friendship makes it worse.
As for whether I'd attend the marriage of two athiest friends being married: the situation hasn't arisen and I'd have to think about that, too.
To me it equates with watching someone jump off a bridge while you're bound by duct tape and unable to save them.
_____________________________
Peace,
Muse
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 11:40:35 AM
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manda59
Posts: 5438
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshinesoprano
Bluestone pretty much sums up my quandry. I want the very best for my friend...and the very best is Jesus. Part of me feels like going would be condoning this relationship. The other part feels like I'd be abandoning my friend.
Maybe you could answer me this: how is Jesus likely to be more glorified - by your going or by your not going?
quote:
To me it equates with watching someone jump off a bridge while you're bound by duct tape and unable to save them.
This sounds to me like you're more concerned about how *you'd* feel if you went. This honestly shouldn't be about you and how you'd feel, it should be about Jesus feels about it.
You're not the one who *can* save them anyway.
If I were you, I'd go to the "Union" and pray the whole time I was there. And I'd smile, because I'd be trusting God to save my friend.
_____________________________
"That's what I would say as well."
Mrs Wifey, August 2008.
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 11:51:39 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3187
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You can love your friend without participating in a ceremony that goes against something you, as a Christian, believe in. You have told him how God views his impending "marriage," and to me, to attend a "wedding" ceremony that is in direct defiance of God and His Word would be wrong and hurtful to Him. Not to mention that this ceremony will no more make him "married" in the eyes of God, than spending the night in the garage makes me a car. So, what's the point?
By all means, continue to be there for your friend; to reach out to him when he needs you and to be a godly example in His life...but your love and friendship do not have to include attending his "wedding" ceremony.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 11:54:44 AM
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manda59
Posts: 5438
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From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Not to mention that this ceremony will no more make him "married" in the eyes of God, than spending the night in the garage makes me a car. So, what's the point?
Of course it could also be argued that if it's that pointless, what's the problem with going?
quote:
By all means, continue to be there for your friend; to reach out to him when he needs you and to be a godly example in His life...but your love and friendship do not have to include attending his "wedding" ceremony.
Unless of course her not being there hurts him so badly that he walks away from the friendship, and she doesn't have the chance to be those things to him anymore.
_____________________________
"That's what I would say as well."
Mrs Wifey, August 2008.
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 12:03:00 PM
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sunshinesoprano
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There's a difference in hanging out with drunks and celebrating their drunkenness.
There's a difference in watching someone take drugs because it makes them happy and saying, "Whatever makes you feel good, man" and either warning them against it or not watching them kill themselves for a short fix.
The whole question of Jesus being glorified is why I asked the question.
I love the abrasiveness of some of these responses. I appreciate the stance, but they come off to me so often as accusatory rather than just providing the requested feedback.
Part of it IS about how I'll feel. Most of it is about doing the right thing.
Most importantly, I'm not trying to save anyone. But if I saw a friend about to jump off a bridge, I'd sure as night try to save them from doing it.
God is the only one who can save him, and I've prayed fervently for 15 years that He would.
_____________________________
Pure Heart-Fresh, Progressive Southern Gospel
Sing, laugh, love, PRAISE!
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 12:10:25 PM
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manda59
Posts: 5438
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshinesoprano
There's a difference in hanging out with drunks and celebrating their drunkenness.
How would standing in a building, perhaps quietly at the back, be celebrating anything?
quote:
There's a difference in watching someone take drugs because it makes them happy and saying, "Whatever makes you feel good, man" and either warning them against it or not watching them kill themselves for a short fix.
Yes, because taking drugs is illegal, that makes it different altogether IMO.
quote:
I love the abrasiveness of some of these responses. I appreciate the stance, but they come off to me so often as accusatory rather than just providing the requested feedback.
If it's me you're talking about, then I will say it's because I feel passionate about this, and because I personally feel that it's likely to be a big mistake for you not to go.
quote:
But if I saw a friend about to jump off a bridge, I'd sure as night try to save them from doing it.
Nothing is going to stop your friend having this Union, so I am not sure of the point you're making here.
And maybe your presence at this Union, you're reaching out to him despite your convictions, could act as your stopping him jumping off a different bridge somewhere further down the line. What I mean is that if your relationship suffers because of you not going, you could well not be there later on when he really does need you.
I asked you how you felt Jesus would be glorified (a) if you didn't go (b) if you did go. Have you come up with anything?
_____________________________
"That's what I would say as well."
Mrs Wifey, August 2008.
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 12:18:15 PM
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Kat_D
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quote:
Unless of course her not being there hurts him so badly that he walks away from the friendship, and she doesn't have the chance to be those things to him anymore.
What this friend is doing is something that is inherently wrong and against God's Word. The reason gay "marriage" is even in existence today is because Christians turned their backs and refused to stand up for God and His Word.
Should one continue to promote this stance by turning a blind eye once again out of fear of ending a freindship, and take it even further by standing up in a gay "wedding" ceremony (constituting support of that union) which an abomination to God?
Where does it ever stop? Oh, and nothing about this ceremony "glorifies" Jesus.
On another note, if this friend knows that this "wedding" goes against everything Solo believes in (as it sounds like she has been very forthright with him about her feelings/beliefs), I think he was insensitive in asking her in the first place. He could have just sent an announcement after the deed was done.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 12:19:23 PM
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ta_mosquito
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Is there a reception you're invited to as well?
Could you skip the ceremony but go to the reception?
_____________________________
Tricia
"There's a fine line between being open minded and being empty headed." ~Michael Coren
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 12:27:57 PM
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sunshinesoprano
Posts: 997
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Georgia
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshinesoprano
There's a difference in hanging out with drunks and celebrating their drunkenness.
How would standing in a building, perhaps quietly at the back, be celebrating anything?
quote:
There's a difference in watching someone take drugs because it makes them happy and saying, "Whatever makes you feel good, man" and either warning them against it or not watching them kill themselves for a short fix.
Yes, because taking drugs is illegal, that makes it different altogether IMO.
quote:
I love the abrasiveness of some of these responses. I appreciate the stance, but they come off to me so often as accusatory rather than just providing the requested feedback.
If it's me you're talking about, then I will say it's because I feel passionate about this, and because I personally feel that it's likely to be a big mistake for you not to go.
quote:
But if I saw a friend about to jump off a bridge, I'd sure as night try to save them from doing it.
Nothing is going to stop your friend having this Union, so I am not sure of the point you're making here.
And maybe your presence at this Union, you're reaching out to him despite your convictions, could act as your stopping him jumping off a different bridge somewhere further down the line. What I mean is that if your relationship suffers because of you not going, you could well not be there later on when he really does need you.
I asked you how you felt Jesus would be glorified (a) if you didn't go (b) if you did go. Have you come up with anything?
Manda,
I do feel you're abrasive in most of your replies, not just to me. I appreciate your passion and that's fine.
I came here for some advice as to whether I should go or not. I didn't come in here saying I wasn't going to go. I gave reasons for both ways. Perspective was needed outside my emotions. That's all I asked...for someone to look at what I was thinking and help me reason through it.
As for what would be more glorifying unto Christ...that's why I asked the question. I don't know.
Yes, if I break the relationship, there might not be an opportunity to help him in the future. But we've been through stuff before, like him dating one of my sorority sisters behind my back, and we recovered.
There's a lot to lose either way I go.
_____________________________
Pure Heart-Fresh, Progressive Southern Gospel
Sing, laugh, love, PRAISE!
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/6/2008 12:31:23 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11028
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
Status: offline
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For the record, I wouldn't go to the ceremony, but I might go to the reception (if there is one).
ETA: I'd probably send my regrets with a personal note saying that, while I love him, I cannot condone or support the union by attending the ceremony. However, since I do want to show my love for him, I'd like to come to the reception. Something like that.
_____________________________
Tricia
"There's a fine line between being open minded and being empty headed." ~Michael Coren
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