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ORIGINAL: RJR_fan
Quick disclaimer. I suffer from the "obnoxious personality disorder," and know that God has not called me to steward human lives in a professional capacity. So, I'm a kibitzer at this game, shouting unsolicited advice from the sidelines to the sweaty players on the field!

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ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga

This is not about the Passover seder; it is about life.

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ORIGINAL: DSmitty

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ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
This is not about the Passover seder; it is about life.

I'm not crazy, honest. OK, maybe I am a little.

I did look at this in context before, and I saw something completely different. Maybe it was the translation, maybe it was where my head was at at the time. I don't know. I think that part of the thing was that I didn't see where Paul could dictate that someone wouldn't be allowed to eat unless they were living in a communal situation.

But as I look at it now a couple of things jumped out at me that I didn't see before. First of all he was referring to people who's issue was more than just being between jobs - they were walking disorderly. They were using the time that they should have spent working or finding work being busybodies. He said that they should work quietly and eat their own bread... so it sounds like he's saying that if they show up at your house, don't feed them. Does that sound off the mark?

I'm embarrassed to say it, but to be honest I think I did allow some personal issues to affect my view here. I went through some real trials a few years back where I was looking for work and having a real tough time finding a job. Our church situation at that time was not a very healthy one and the pastor actually said to me (after I had found a job and had been working for a while) "If it were me, I would have had a job in a week." And yes, I have forgiven him. But you learn things from these kinds of situations, and sometimes what you learn is valuable and sometimes it's just wrong.

To this day I cringe when I hear people quoting that Scripture to slam someone who is struggling in that way.

Thanks for setting me straight yet again. We all need it sometimes. It's always good to be able to bounce things off of knowledgable people who love God.

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ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga


I said something to you before that was "setting you straight?" I don't recall that. Just in case, I purposely don't remember these things, if I did that.

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ORIGINAL: rcjames

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ORIGINAL: lightshineon
I am saying which sins count for a step down situation? Can some unexpected, unfortunate, event happen that does not take years to get it back in control? What if an elders wife gossips, or slanders someone, or their child? I do not see in the scripture where it says step down, I see get your wife, your child under control. .

(Lightshiningon, please understand that I am not arguing with you only stating my positon and trying to answer question as fully and as accurately as I possibly can.)

I presume that when one should step down is up to the person and to whom ever they are accountable to for determination.

A sin; no, a sinning lifestyle, yes. Repeatedly sinning yes.

If an Elder's wife gossisps about someone no. If the Elders's wife is a gossip then yes.

As you so aptly put it; we cannot leave God's grace out of this and get overly legalistic. But also we can not make excuses to keep people in authority when their families are not in order.

Personally I had rather err on the side of stepping down too soon, than to support someone in ministry who is unqualified by God's own words.

Above all else, I believe we should try to be obedient to God's Word. Not to try and excuse it because it might affetct us in a derogatory way, but be obedient because it is God's Word.

Others that I know have not stepped down even when the families came completely apart; divorce, teens going to prison, etc. But as for me I just cannot get past, ignore, nor deny this other verse that Jesus spoke;

(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

As you may know, one of the responsibilities that I have is trying to resolve problems that arise in our Churches. When I go to a Church that is about to come apart at the seams invarible I find leaders whose families are out of order and cannot understand why they are having problems leading the Church.

This is an area that I believe needs to be addressed in many many Churches throughout Christiandom, but sadly seems to be ignored by most.

Thanks
RC