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RE: 6yr old and temper problems - 7/31/2008 12:27:10 PM
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MrsTracy72
Posts: 1611
Joined: 2/28/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shadowspring
Please forgive my wording in the above post about being "calm enough to learn". It was the best way I could think of to describe it, but you are quite right that it is not entirely accurate.
It is hard to deal with this, but there is a difference between giving a child medication to be able to sit still and concentrate and using that medication to change their behavior, and I think that many people still see that medication as a "way out" for parents to not have to deal with their hyperactive kids. Those are two very different things.
The medication does calm kids with ADHD, that is not in dispute I just wanted to make it very clear that Doctors don't just hand out this type of medication to make kids behave. They DO actually screen them for conditions to make sure that this medication is going to be what the child needs.
It has been shown that children who don't have ADHD but take meds for it act like they are on speed which is pretty much what those medications are, BUT kids who have ADHD for some reason, the meds work opposite in their brains. There is no true diagnosis for ADHD, but when the go on meds, if they get worse, then they probably need to look at something else.
This child sounds like he has been better on the meds, but the tantrums have always been there and they are probably unrelated to the ADHD, but they do have a source and it needs to be taken care of along with the rest of the family. So that pretty much goes along with what stateofgrace said.
I guess it bothers me because while going through the process, I had people telling me that I needed to just find ways to discipline him better........ It bothered me because I had to battle with my ex husband who wanted it to be everything BUT that and even took it as far as sitting in the psych docs office and accused me of abusing him and trying to turn my son against him. Anything but ADHD and medication.
Today I have an honor student who is confident enough to take things on himself and is better able to cope with the world around him. BUT when he is off of his meds, you can't read his handwriting, he is argumentetive, forgets EVERYTHING and is just very scatterbrained. So what does that say about my parenting? Just that I care enough to be open to the fact that there may be something wrong with my child that needs medical intervention.
You are doing a good job with your child, but you also should take the advice of stateofgrace and talk to the doc if you haven't already. See if you can come up with some type of behavior plan and look into other options WITH THAT DOCTOR. Don't be fooled into thinking you can change it yourself. You can't. You can help it along, but you first need to understand it.
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RE: 6yr old and temper problems - 7/31/2008 1:52:29 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1932
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shadowspring
quote:
OK, at the risk of sounding like a broken record (I'm going to have to find a more culturally-up-to-date phrase - perhaps an iPod stuck on repeat mode?)...
The extreme meltdowns and tantrums can be a sign of early-onset Bipolar which often is misdiagnosed as ADHD, or can exist along with ADHD. Many physicians are more familiar with ADHD and make that assumption instead of considering Bipolar. Sometimes ADHD medications without a mood stabilizer will make these kids worse, behavior-wise.
Here is a listing of symptoms of early-onset Bipolar.
If you think this may sound like your child's situation, I recommend reading "The Bipolar Child" by Dennis and Janice Paplos (he's an MD specializing in Bipolar kids, she's an RN). And then, discussing this possibility with your child's doctor.
That is really something that should be diagnosed by a professional, not on the forums.
How in the world did you get that I was diagnosing?
I brought up a POSSIBILITY. That's all. I wanted to educate her as to a possibility.
(sarcasm mode-on)
Oh, just disregard what I posted, everyone.
I obviously have no idea what I am talking about, right?
(sarcasm mode - off)
We've only LIVED IT as a family.
If the poor woman's child ends up being Bipolar, she can just learn about it the hard way like we did, after several years of the ADHD mis-diagnosis (3 doctors, two of whom started with ADHD and then over time decided it was Bipolar after all! The first of whom hadn't even been keeping up with current professional literature on the topic!) and ADHD medication making things worse...or she could consider the POSSIBILITY, educate herself about Bipolar and other children's mental health conditions, and then chose to check it out with professionals, or not, depending on whether or not her child actually shows symptoms of a particular condition.
shadowspring, I'm very disappointed that you would have that response to my post.
becomingwhole, always remember that you are your child's best and sometimes only advocate.
< Message edited by stateofgrace -- 7/31/2008 2:02:02 PM >
_____________________________
less junk, more Jesus
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RE: 6yr old and temper problems - 7/31/2008 2:29:25 PM
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Mrs.X
Posts: 2202
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Newberg, OR
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shadowspring
I am reading a book called "Explosive Children". I highly recommend it.
The Explosive Child? I went to that workshop. It was very enlightening. Mine is only two, so it didn't apply to me yet, as that type of behavior is normal for a 2 year old.
One thing that really stood out to me was the basket anaolgy. Basket A, the parent makes the decision. Basket B, the parent and the child negotiate a decision. Basket C, the child makes the decision. It is better to go straight to Basket B than it is to go from Basket A to Basket C. Basket A to C is what happens when the parent says for the child to do something, and the child has an explosion, so the parent gives in and lets the child run the show. The child "wins" and learns that throwing fits will get him what he wants. While some things can't be negotiated, most things can.
I read a pretty good article on the MSN website the other day that my dad sent me. It's probably elementary to you, but it may be helpful.
HERE it is.
_____________________________
-Christina
MySpace
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House (music player is at the bottom if you want to turn it off)
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RE: 6yr old and temper problems - 7/31/2008 3:11:35 PM
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locomom
Posts: 242
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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MrsTracy72,
I said that we were uncomfortable with the general outlook of psychiatrists is nonChristian because by training it is true and because in my area it is true. We were informed by our Christian counseling center that they had not found anyone they were happy working with as Christians. I know the counselors are good Christian people. So there is a vast difference in the underpinnings of how we look at ourselves and our sense of value and how we build a person up.
Also in my area there was a 4 month waiting period to see a child psychiatrist.
I specifically wanted to make the point that a pediatric neurologist is a fully qualified specialist for dealing with ADHD medication and its problems. Working with a neurologist and a Christian psychologist worked very well to solve my daughters medication problems. She had become suicidal at age 8 yo on ADHD medications mixed with some allergy meds. She told me a few years ago, she even had a suicide plan. We could see the neurologist soon at the time.
The financial benefits of seeing the neurologist has been significant. While this is hardly a primary reason, I only pay a $20 copay when my daughter see her neurologist. If we had had to pay a psychiatrist all along, the expenses would have been a lot higher because a visit comes under mental health coverage which is considerably less.
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RE: 6yr old and temper problems - 7/31/2008 6:25:59 PM
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shadowspring
Posts: 1516
Joined: 5/27/2006
Status: online
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stateofgrace,
Please forgive me for offending you somehow. That was not my intention.
I have had well-intentioned people (a professional even) misdiagnose my daughter (over the phone, only slightly better than over the forums) because they had never met with my child, done any kind of physical on my child, no intake of my child, but simply were responding to the inter-personal struggles with what they thought sounded best.
Also my best friends granddaughter is diagnosed bi-polar (along with FAS and learning disabilities), and I know her psychiatrist did not come to that conclusion hastily, but after treating her for several years.
So I was trying to put it as briefly as possible, that diagnosis is best left to a professional with whom your family is working long-term.
There are actually multiple causes of an inability to handle frustration and negative emotion in a healthy way. And one cause is bi-polar.
I was not disputing that. I was not making any comment on your personal familiarity with explosive children or bi-polar in any way.
_____________________________
"All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost..." -J. R. R. Tolkien
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RE: 6yr old and temper problems - 7/31/2008 6:27:54 PM
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shadowspring
Posts: 1516
Joined: 5/27/2006
Status: online
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quote:
The Explosive Child? I went to that workshop. It was very enlightening. Mine is only two, so it didn't apply to me yet, as that type of behavior is normal for a 2 year old.
Yes, that is the correct title. I did not have the book with me when I posted. The Explosive Child by Ross Greene Ph.D.
_____________________________
"All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost..." -J. R. R. Tolkien
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RE: 6yr old and temper problems - 7/31/2008 6:48:34 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1932
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shadowspring
stateofgrace,
Please forgive me for offending you somehow. That was not my intention.
I forgive you. Please understand that I was not trying in any way to make a diagnosis; I only wanted to point out a possibility to the OP.
Many of us have had to deal with kids who have been hard to diagnose or have been mis-diagnosed. Perhaps in 10 years, brain imaging and other tools will help doctors more accurately pinpoint what is going on in a person's brain. Until tools like that are considered reliable for diagnosis, doctors will continue to diagnose by symptoms, and are more likely to diagnose what they are more familiar with - such as ADHD.
_____________________________
less junk, more Jesus
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RE: 6yr old and temper problems - 7/31/2008 7:29:52 PM
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MrsTracy72
Posts: 1611
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: locomom
We were uncomfortable with getting a psychiatrist since their understanding of people is nonChristian.
If you had said in your area in the first place, then I would have responded differently, but you generalized pretty much all of them. I am sorry if I offended you but I have had my own problems with people telling me which docs were good and which docs were bad. Everybody has their own preference and they feel comfortable with. I use a psychiatrist and a therapist and the pediatrician is simply kept in the loop so that he knows. And all of my docs are wonderful regardless of their faith. I love the fact that the therapist and the psych doc are Christians. I don't know if the peditrician is, but he knows where I am on that subject. I just don't think it matters when he is just writing the script or doing a physical.
becommingwhole how are you doing? Hopefully it is just that your son needs to learn how to better express himself and as he grows and matures they will calm down, but while you are dealing with this, how are you coping with it? It can get hard and those kids are sooooo so good at picking up on our tension and are just as good at using it to their advantage. I know that mine were pros at that before they could talk.
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RE: 6yr old and temper problems - 8/1/2008 3:29:19 PM
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MrsTracy72
Posts: 1611
Joined: 2/28/2007
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Karaboo, your ADHD child is unmedicated so what do you do to help control it? My husband wants my to have my son try biofeedback when he is a bit older.
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RE: 6yr old and temper problems - 8/1/2008 5:58:03 PM
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Karaboo2
Posts: 1599
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: online
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I shouldn't say totally unmedicated ... more like no presciptives. He does take a little melatonin at night to wind down and help him sleep (rather than being in hyper mode 24/7). We homeschool, which makes life a little easier for us (no dealing with upset teachers because he won't sit still). We build down time into each day for the kids, and during these downtimes, he gets to build with Lego, etc (that is his passion, so he'll focus on that while the others nap) If he is getting quite rowdy, we send him to bounce on the mini trampoline (best $25 I've ever spent ... he'll bounce for a straight hour)
LOTS of outdoor time where he can run in the fresh air. We're working on teaching him ways to deal with his frustrations that occur (like if a sib destroys the Lego castle), and that is helping too.
Storms are in the area, so I'll finish answering this thread later ... gotta shut down before lightning shuts me down.
_____________________________
Kara
"I am not here. I am lost. I have gone to find myself. If I should get back before I return, please ask me to wait!"
 Proud member of the moo club!
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RE: 6yr old and temper problems - 8/1/2008 10:39:15 PM
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MrsTracy72
Posts: 1611
Joined: 2/28/2007
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I tried melatonin because I don't sleep and I had the worst nightmares of my life. I didn't think it was the melatonin so I tried it again a few days later and sure enough, nightmares that woke me up screaming. Then a friend of mine told me she had the same problem. But my son uses that also and he likes it.
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RE: 6yr old and temper problems - 8/2/2008 9:35:50 AM
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becomingwhole
Posts: 29
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline
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Hello all,
I know it has been a few days since I posted, but my life gets insane during the week. I attend classes twice a week right now, but I graduate in March.. YEAH !! This week has been a little better. When I was in class on Wed. night he gave his dad fits. Dad never lost his temper and held to the fact that either he choose to comply or have things taken away. He pinched his dad and tried to kick him. Finally, they ate their dinner and worked on his word ring, which is where the frustration came from. I did take the next morning to talk to him, because the day before I sat down with him and explained he would not be spanked anymore, and of course he was very pleased. I used the logic that we could not make him do anything, but we could take things away until he choose to do what he was asked to do. He liked that very much. So that Thursday morning, I talked with him on my way to work, he comes with me to work. I explained he choose to hit, pinch, kick, would he want us to do that to him. Of course he replied NO! My son is a firm believer in fairness; well that is what I appealed to. I asked him was that fair, and he said no. I again reminded him, that we need to treat others the way we would want to be treated.
stateofgrace
I did look at the list of symptoms. Yes, our son has an explosive temper, when an issue arises that he does not like. Other then that he continually wakes up with a smile, day in and day out. For the most part is classified by all that know him as a kind, big-hearted, and a loving child. He will tolerate anything the special needs children I work with do to him, and never lose his temper, and when they get upset he is the one getting bubbles, or other things to calm them down. His fits stem directly from not wanting to do something when it bugs him. He is hyper, but then again so am I and my little brother. We worked to together in high school, and would close the McDonalds in our small town, and get home around 3:00 a.m. and then go rollerblading for a while, sleep 4 hours, then I would go clean houses with my mom for the day. So again it is something that runs in the family. The temperament also runs in the family. My dad, myself, and my older brother all have quick tempers that we have had to learn to handle. My mom and little brother have extremely long suffering temperaments. So again, I think genetics plays a huge role in our son.
My husband taped up his toy box, and told him he could have it back on Sat. Yesterday he asked if he could play with his toys, I asked him what did daddy say, and he responded, "Oh yeah, not until Saturday", and that was the end. Another trait he has is that he is very honest.
Okay, sorry I have been so long winded. Today him and I are having a play day, our daughter has been at nana's most of the week, and he will go next week. So I thank you all again, and hope you have a great weekend.
Becoming Whole
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RE: 6yr old and temper problems - 8/2/2008 10:54:51 PM
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MrsTracy72
Posts: 1611
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline
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Becomingwhole,
It sounds like you have things pretty much under control. Maybe to make it even easier, see if the doc you are working with will help you come up with some behavior plan for all of your kids. I can't remember, but I think it was Sara (perculiarlady) who does a rainbow chart. And don't forget to take your time.
Too often we forget that, and it seems to magnify the situation. I am happy to hear you were able to talk to him. It does get better as they get older and if you are keeping up with them, they are better able to reason through and find different ways to cope.
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