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rtvasquez -> marriage or single (7/23/2008 3:00:07 AM)

I have been married for over 17 years to my high school boyfriend....for the last 10 years of our marriage it has been horrible....verbal, mental, emotional and physical abuse.....I prayed and prayed for years for god to change my husband. He never changed during those years. A year ago I left him and moved over 300 miles away with the children after a horrible fight that ended with a broken bone. My husband would go to visit "me" every weekend and we argued every weekend....the weekends always ended up with me being called bad words....mostly in front of the children. Our children did not want me to go back to him. Almost every weekend, their dad would return to my house and be sweet....until it was time for him to leave...the arguement would begin. He would tell me that he loved me but was just angry because I would not move back home. My husband was just getting worse in the verbal abuse and had started yelling at the kids - but not about things they are doing wrong - yelled at them that their mom was this and that....my kids didn't believe him because they know me and what type of mother I was and am.

I have two little boys, a teenage daughter (16) and an adult son. I am about to be a grandmother any day now. My two boys adore him and my daughter likes him as well. My adult son had already told me that if I don't move back with his dad..i wont be a grandmother to his baby because he is very close to his dad....he never knew what his dad and I had been through and when told, he states that we should go to counseling to work out our problems but his reasoning stands...I live far away...his dad lives 5 minutes away...so whom ever his dad marries (if we get divorced) would be the grandmother.

About 2 1/2 months ago, I met someone. I had constantly prayed to god to change my husband....then I started praying to send me someone who could love me and give me courage and strength to leave him (mentally and emotionally) so that I could be a better mom and woman. When I met this person, I wasnt looking to meet anyone. He asked me out of the blue on a date (he thought I was going to say no) and I said yes....thinking that it was just something to do...no big deal. Well needless to say....we hit it off perfectly. He is the best father, father figure (role model) and best friend that I could ever ask for in a man. He has three kids that he is raising (2 teenage boys who are so mannerful that its amazing in these days to see and a little girl) and he has joint custody with his ex-wife, with them living with him and visiting her.

I never told my husband about my "friend" because I was scared. I was trying to detach myself from my husband and had even printed out a separation agreement between us (which we agreed on) until I could afford to file for divorce. I knew that I wanted a divorce because i had fell in love with my "friend" and wanted to continue with our relationship and he felt the same way and it was difficult for me to continue dealing with my husband's erratic behavior.

My teenage daughter stated that she wants to live with her dad (near her old friends and boyfriend) and when she went to visit him one time..she took it upon herself to tell him about my "friend".

After three days of hearing my husband call me all sorts of names, he changed. He started to tell me that he loved me and that he would do anything to save our marriage. He did drugs (which I didnt know about) and stopped drinking as much (hardly drinks now) and said that he would go to marriage counseling and that he wanted to finish raising our kids together. he told me that he had been praying hard to god for forgiveness and promised to never be mean to me or do drugs again if God could just give him his family back. He tries to be soooo loving now to me that I am so confused.

I believe in marriage and I can see the big change in my husband. My problem is that I agreed to give him another chance to "let him make it up to me" and show me all of his love and appreciation; however, I am still in love with my "friend" and am having a difficult time letting him go. I think about my FRIEND all the time even though I am not talking to him (we agreed not to continue any sort of relationship until I filed for divorce - he loves me and wants to marry me but I'm still married and it hurts him to know that I am with my husband and giving it a chance). I haven't talked, seen or heard from my FRIEND for two weeks since I am trying to give my marriage a chance but I don't want to give up such a good man. I met all of his family and friends and I love him for all that he is inside...he is such a great man, father, and lives with his heart on his sleeve. He doesn't yell or get mad easy and is very patient with his kids and mine.

I have a choice to make....stay with my husband and give it 100% (which is very hard for me to do) or file for a divorce and going back home (300 miles away) with just my two boys and having to deal with not having my teenage daughter, my grandchild, and NOW breaking my husbands heart who just started to pray more and show me his love and affection the way he should have for the past 10 years. I won't even have my FRIEND to lean on until my divorce is final...which could take several months.

I have prayed for answers but I don't know what to do. i am terrified of making a wrong decision. I am prepared to file for divorce an tough it out on my own for several months....but what if that is the wrong choice....what if I am supposed to give my husband the chance to make it up to me and pray with him and keep our family together and stronger than it has ever been before...... If I do that....I will lose my FRIEND and the man that I fell in love with and the answer to my prayers...at the time.

HELP!!!!!



benelchi -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 9:46:11 AM)

What I can tell you is that biblically the relationship with your friend is wrong and is something you should break off immediately. You will be in a much better position to follow God's leading if you are submitting to his will. Additionally you should make sure that you are actively involved in a local community of believers where you can get support for the things you are faced with. These are serious problems and you should not try to go it alone. That being said, I have seen God work miracles in marriages that are worse than what you have described, so I would strongly encourage you to not give up on your marriage.

However, the abuse you described that resulted in a broken bone is very serious, and I would encourage you to NOT go back until you have met with a good Christian counselor, and have spent enough time working through the issues to know that your safety will not be threatened, and still know that you are prepared to deal with it properly if it is. Among other things you should be prepared to call the police, and possibly men from your church if you are ever even threatened again, and your husband should know that this WILL happen if he ever even makes a threat. These kinds of boundaries are something you need to do for your marriage. Additionally, I would recommend strongly that your children be involved in at least some of the counseling because it would be best that they understand how a repeated situation of abuse will be handled, and how any drug and/or alcohol issue will be dealt with. These are all big issues and it is going to take a lot of hard work to get past them, and it would be best if the whole family understands where the boundaries must be in your situation.

Above all pray and submit yourself to God's leading, and know that through God your marriage can be made into something very beautiful if you both choose to follow him.



TorchHeart -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 10:04:51 AM)

This is a decision only you can make.

I want to ask this, though: How long have you been back with your husband? I am far less inclined to tell you to go back to your husband when there is so much abuse involved. No relationship is worth going back to if you're going to be a target of such treatment (especially if you feel your life might be in danger).

That said, I commend you for wanting to give your husband a second chance. Just make sure that he truly HAS changed, and that this isn't just a bill of goods that he's selling you. If he reverts back to his old ways and things get violent, get your kids and GET OUT!

As for your relationship with your friend, I don't see it as being as wrong as some of these other people on this forum do. I can see where you were looking for someone to replace your husband, since you felt that the marriage was over. I'm sure God looks at the situation, too, rather than just passing judgement. However, now you DO have a decision to make.

YOu need to ask yourself if its possible that the husband you left has become the man you were praying to God for. It IS possible that your leaving him for that time has shown him what he stood to lose, and that he has changed for the better. But this is something that only YOU will know for sure. Remember, his actions over time will show how much he's truly changed (and that's why I asked how long you've been back with him... how much of a change over how long of a time have you really seen). I do recommend giving your husband the benefite of the doubt, especially since it seems like (from what you're saying) he truly is trying to chagne.

If you do decide to go back to your husband, you will probably need to break off your relationship with this friend of your's. Maybe the two of you can be just friends as it sounds like God might have put him there to help you through this time in your life, but that means you must both not take it any further than that. If the temptation to do that is too strong, you should break the relationship off.

Good luck, and God bless.



preserved -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 10:13:13 AM)

God allowed you to move away from him a year ago...When praying to God on situation like this...God will either change both parties or remove one from the home...reconcillation is to follow if able...

You met this other man and fell in love...That was not under the direction of God...because you are still legally married. Sometimes husbands and wives need to separate for a while (cooling period) to work out the problems for reconcilation...not to meet and date someone else...You have now seen the changes in your husband which is what you asked for...You need to reconcile back to your husband...However, both of you need to seek counseling to insure the abuse does not re-occur



buckifn -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 10:14:00 AM)

abusive men will say anything, do anything, and plead any bargain that sounds good to you, in order to win you back. If you fall for that lie then don't be surprised when the abuse picks up again.

Without prof. help most abusers do not stop abusing and in domestic abuse when the abused person stays with the abuser many times they end up dead.

Think long and hard about going back with an abuser. You do not need another man in the picture...but you do need to establish yourself away from this man and make him PROVE through a longggggggggggggggggggg extensive pattern of new behavior that includes anger management, drug and alcohol addiction programs, and a respect for you as a woman, whether you are living with him or not.

Your son siding with his dad and not caring you have been abused makes it sound likely the cycle of abuse will be carried out by him against women as well. I'd urge him to seek counseling also.



rtvasquez -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 11:40:41 AM)

I have been back with my husband for 2 weeks.....I still live out of town but have been coming to visit him and I have visited him for the past three weeks and stayed with him for about two of those weeks... the problem doesn't seems to be him (yet)...the problem is me. I don't feel as if i am giving it my total all....It is too hard. The past. I keep thinking about my friend and how much I miss him and love him. I haven't talked to him since I decided to give my husband another chance. i do know that I was happiest when we were together. I felt very relaxed and could joke around...My kids loved him. He is a great man. I love my husband but not in love with him. I tend to be more tense (habit) and I feel guilty that I dont love him like I should. We had talked about my friend together and have overcome that issue. however, i just never told my husband that i fell in love with my friend. which I did. When I moved out a year ago, My children and i all went to counseling. Separately. My middle son, did not want to attend but in April after an incident between his dad and me .. he told me that he wanted to go to counseling. When this incident of my husband learning of my "friend", my sons were upset....my 10 year old, who has never ever talked about his feelings with me, started crying when I told him that Daddy wants us to try to work things out....he stated that dad was just asking for a second chance because he was jeolous. My boys fell in love with my firend also...he is such a loving person....not spoiling the boys..but by spending time with them at the park or talking and listening to them. The reason that my friend and I stopped talking during this time was because he never wants my boys to feel as if he was the reason that I didn't give their dad another cnance and he was the reason for our divorce. They have told me that they know that my FRIEND is not the reason because I met him only recently and we have been gone for about a year from their dad....who made that whole time horrible still. Now that dad has changed for the better....they still ask about my FRIEND and said that they couldn't wait for the divorce to be final so that I could start dating my Friend again....my boys are 8 1/2 and 10 1/2 years old. They are very very smart and are older than they should be inside.

I know that I should be giving my marriage 100% ... but I don't want to at times. My husband is being loving and caring..more than he ever, ever was during our marriage before these past few weeks....But in my heart...I feel like its too late. I'm in love with my friend. I am still with my husband becasue I know I should be....I should be willing to love him and want our marriage to work along with the Lords help...because its the right thing to do as a christian woman and wife.

But can I. And do I have the strength to not do it and if I don't...what consequences shall I be facing for leaving my husband who is trying to change and become a better person? Those are the questions that go through my mind and keep me here with my husband. Not because I want to be here but because I fear doing the wrong thing in the eyes of the Lord. Could I be forgiven or will I be condemned if I make the wrong decision?



laura... -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 12:02:19 PM)

quote:

my 10 year old, who has never ever talked about his feelings with me, started crying when I told him that Daddy wants us to try to work things out....he stated that dad was just asking for a second chance because he was jeolous.


Your son is a very wise young man.

I recommend you slow way way down on the reconcilliation path. Abusers do not change overnight. Be very cautious about putting yourself and your boys back in danger.



CheshireMuse -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 12:09:56 PM)

First of all, let me express how sorry I am that you find yourself in this situation. I will pray for things to become clear to you - that God will comfort and heal you and your family.

There are two things in your post that worry me greatly - 1) Your husband did not have this "change of heart" until AFTER he found out that another man was interested in you.... 2) The abuse you've endured has been ongoing for years and has resulted in a broken bone!

Some here will disagree with me strongly, and perhaps I approach this from a survivor-standpoint, however, I would not allow a man who had abused me for 17 years and even broken a bone to come within 2 miles of me ever again.

Harsh? I guess it is.... but, no more harsh than those naively telling you to go back to this man. I'm a Christian, and I believe that God can perform miracles, no doubt - but, He also gave us common sense. If I've been mauled by a lion, there's no way I'm going to be lured back into the cage - even if the lion swears on a stack of Bibles he's become a vegetarian! I believe we should trust God, but, to blithely walk back into a situation where you have been so severely abused on nothing but the word of the abuser is nuts.

Whether you reconcile with this man or decide to end the marriage is ultimately between you and God. I will pray that God clears away the confusion for you and makes the right decision clear.



CheshireMuse -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 12:14:40 PM)

Sweetie, stop taking responsibility for not feeling love for this man!
He killed it when he abused you! That is not your fault! That is HIS fault -and if he damaged it beyond all repair, are you to be condemned for it?

I wholeheartedly agree with Laura - its only been a couple of weeks, and abusers are usually pretty good at hiding things in the short run.

I'm praying for you..
quote:

ORIGINAL: rtvasquez

I have been back with my husband for 2 weeks.....I still live out of town but have been coming to visit him and I have visited him for the past three weeks and stayed with him for about two of those weeks... the problem doesn't seems to be him (yet)...the problem is me. I don't feel as if i am giving it my total all....It is too hard. The past. I keep thinking about my friend and how much I miss him and love him. I haven't talked to him since I decided to give my husband another chance. i do know that I was happiest when we were together. I felt very relaxed and could joke around...My kids loved him. He is a great man. I love my husband but not in love with him. I tend to be more tense (habit) and I feel guilty that I dont love him like I should. We had talked about my friend together and have overcome that issue. however, i just never told my husband that i fell in love with my friend. which I did. When I moved out a year ago, My children and i all went to counseling. Separately. My middle son, did not want to attend but in April after an incident between his dad and me .. he told me that he wanted to go to counseling. When this incident of my husband learning of my "friend", my sons were upset....my 10 year old, who has never ever talked about his feelings with me, started crying when I told him that Daddy wants us to try to work things out....he stated that dad was just asking for a second chance because he was jeolous. My boys fell in love with my firend also...he is such a loving person....not spoiling the boys..but by spending time with them at the park or talking and listening to them. The reason that my friend and I stopped talking during this time was because he never wants my boys to feel as if he was the reason that I didn't give their dad another cnance and he was the reason for our divorce. They have told me that they know that my FRIEND is not the reason because I met him only recently and we have been gone for about a year from their dad....who made that whole time horrible still. Now that dad has changed for the better....they still ask about my FRIEND and said that they couldn't wait for the divorce to be final so that I could start dating my Friend again....my boys are 8 1/2 and 10 1/2 years old. They are very very smart and are older than they should be inside.

I know that I should be giving my marriage 100% ... but I don't want to at times. My husband is being loving and caring..more than he ever, ever was during our marriage before these past few weeks....But in my heart...I feel like its too late. I'm in love with my friend. I am still with my husband becasue I know I should be....I should be willing to love him and want our marriage to work along with the Lords help...because its the right thing to do as a christian woman and wife.

But can I. And do I have the strength to not do it and if I don't...what consequences shall I be facing for leaving my husband who is trying to change and become a better person? Those are the questions that go through my mind and keep me here with my husband. Not because I want to be here but because I fear doing the wrong thing in the eyes of the Lord. Could I be forgiven or will I be condemned if I make the wrong decision?



benelchi -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 12:54:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtvasquez

I have been back with my husband for 2 weeks.....I still live out of town but have been coming to visit him and I have visited him for the past three weeks and stayed with him for about two of those weeks... the problem doesn't seems to be him (yet)...the problem is me.


I want to echo what Laura said i.e. "slow down!". Unlike a few of the posters here, I really do believe that reconciliation is always best if it is at all possible, and I would encourage you to give 100% to trying to reconcile your marriage, BUT if you want your marriage to have a chance you are going to need to pursue reconciliation with a lot of wisdom and support from those who will truly give you godly counsel. The pattern of abuse you described is one that is not easily broken, especially when there has been a history of drug and alcohol abuse, and with out a lot of hard work from your husband it will be a problem again. Both you and he will need to be actively involved in the recovery process. You need help from people who understand the nature of abuse and addiction that you have experienced in your marriage. They need to be aware of ALL of the problems i.e. physical abuse, alcohol and drug abuse, and you need a plan to address these issue over the long term. With good Christian counsel, lots and lots of pray, and a plan to truly address this problem, I truly believe God can give you the marriage you desire, but please don't try and shortcut the process because the results of doing so almost never turn out good. Going back to him for the night, moving back in, etc... may be the absolute worst things you could be doing for your marriage right now. Get help first and then seek counsel about when and how to take these steps!


quote:


I don't feel as if i am giving it my total all....It is too hard. The past. I keep thinking about my friend and how much I miss him and love him. I haven't talked to him since I decided to give my husband another chance. i do know that I was happiest when we were together. I felt very relaxed and could joke around...My kids loved him. He is a great man. I love my husband but not in love with him. I tend to be more tense (habit) and I feel guilty that I dont love him like I should.


Sometimes it takes a while to get our feelings to follow our will, but it is important that we choose to love even when the feelings are not there. Couples who have gone through these "loveless" periods in their marriages, and have done the work to deal with the problems, almost always report greater satisfaction and love in their marriages in the following years. The feelings can and do change.

As far as your feelings for your friend go, those too will change if you do not feed your desire. Despite what some have said on this thread, the relationship was wrong and I would strongly encourage you not to act out on the feelings you have for this man. Someone suggested that maybe God sent this man into your life, but I assure you that is not the case because God never encourages us to sin.



jaimestarcross -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 1:19:12 PM)

I would be very cautious of getting back into a marriage where I'd been abused (suffered a broken bone.) I'm happy your husband is getting help but I would not move back in the same house until he's successfully completed his counseling for abusing you and he shows a consistent pattern of good behavior toward you. You can show support by encouraging him, praying for him, spending time together/dates etc... I wouldn't encourage living under the same roof due to the nature of the abuse you suffered. Trust lost has to be earned and that is done over a period of time - you can set the time period for him to show he's really a changed man.

*Having doubts shows you're not ready to abandon your marriage.

The only person you need to set your heart upon is the Lord because from all that you've posted your heart is divided and your thoughts/feelings are too. You did right by leaving an abusive home but you failed to guard your heart from becoming involved with another man... since you are married.
I'm sorry, that this is hurtful.



TorchHeart -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 2:21:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi

I want to echo what Laura said i.e. "slow down!". Unlike a few of the posters here, I really do believe that reconciliation is always best if it is at all possible, and I would encourage you to give 100% to trying to reconcile your marriage, BUT if you want your marriage to have a chance you are going to need to pursue reconciliation with a lot of wisdom and support from those who will truly give you godly counsel. The pattern of abuse you described is one that is not easily broken, especially when there has been a history of drug and alcohol abuse, and with out a lot of hard work from your husband it will be a problem again. Both you and he will need to be actively involved in the recovery process. You need help from people who understand the nature of abuse and addiction that you have experienced in your marriage. They need to be aware of ALL of the problems i.e. physical abuse, alcohol and drug abuse, and you need a plan to address these issue over the long term. With good Christian counsel, lots and lots of pray, and a plan to truly address this problem, I truly believe God can give you the marriage you desire, but please don't try and shortcut the process because the results of doing so almost never turn out good. Going back to him for the night, moving back in, etc... may be the absolute worst things you could be doing for your marriage right now. Get help first and then seek counsel about when and how to take these steps!


I would also agree that the reconciliation is always best. But like you said, its best IF IT IS AT ALL POSSIBLE! If she was leaving her husband over some argument, or something petty, or even because she felt that she didn't love him anymore, then I would totally be on your side. This is a completely different situation, though. Abuse is nothing to mess around with, and nobody should have to take it. When you're dealing with situations like that, you may have to just admit that the marriage may have to be abandoned. If its going to come down to risking your life and the life of your children just to try and salvage a marriage to an abusive spouce, I don't see how you can stay in it.

Some people do NOT change. Some situations do NOT get better. And, I'm sorry, but sometimes people DO marry the wrong person and end up in terrible situations. In situations like that, there are sometimes no other options. And having seen the end results of situations like this, I'm hesitant to tell anyone to totally rule out abandoning the marriage and moving on with their lives. I applaud anyone who will go for reconcilation and try to work things out. But sometimes, it just doesn't.



quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi

Sometimes it takes a while to get our feelings to follow our will, but it is important that we choose to love even when the feelings are not there. Couples who have gone through these "loveless" periods in their marriages, and have done the work to deal with the problems, almost always report greater satisfaction and love in their marriages in the following years. The feelings can and do change.


No offense, but I think this was a little more than a "loveless period in a marriage." He beat her bad enough to break bones in her body. And it wasn't the first time he struck her either.


quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi


As far as your feelings for your friend go, those too will change if you do not feed your desire. Despite what some have said on this thread, the relationship was wrong and I would strongly encourage you not to act out on the feelings you have for this man. Someone suggested that maybe God sent this man into your life, but I assure you that is not the case because God never encourages us to sin.




Maybe he was there to help her gain her trust back in men? Maybe he was there for other reasons? Or maybe she is supposed to leave her abusive husband? Maybe what happened with her friend will show her that she can return to her marriage. You don't know God's mind on this, and neither do I. And I'm not going to go as far as to say she sinned, because I don't believe she did.

benelchi: I don't mean to sound cross or harsh in my responces to you. We obviously have differing opinions on this, and I do understand where you're coming from with your views. But I do feel (for lack of a better term) that they're missing some common sense. While faith is important, so is the well-being of this woman and her children.



laura... -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 2:45:53 PM)

I just want to add to my previous response.

If your children are crying at the prospect of you and their father reconciling then I would not recommend that you pursue reconcilliation at this time. Under some of the worst of circumstances children long for their parents to reconcile. It has to have been extremely bad for your children to not want that to happen. Keep your home with your children separate from their father until such time as he has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to both you and your children that he is a safe person. That could very well not happen until they are adults if ever.

I'm sorry that your oldest son would not encourage a relationship with your grandchild unless you reconcile with your husband. That is manipulative. However, as much as you love your grandchild, your first priority is to your young, dependent children. Whatever decisions you make must be with their best interest foremost in your mind.

There isn't much you can do about your teenage daughter wanting to live with her father. I suspect, since you are not divorced, that there is no custody order in place. That leaves you with no legal grounds to keep her with you. If that is the case, then if you do decide not to reconcile with your husband get a custody order for your younger sons immediately.



rtvasquez -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 2:50:41 PM)

I do understand that loving my FRIEND is a sin against my marriage...I was dealing with it and praying for forgiveness during this time....I did not feel guilty though..in fact, I felt guilty when I was around my husband...guilt that I was not with my FRIEND. That was awful.

I prayed for strength to divorce my husband since I was too scared to tell him about my friend or that I wanted a divorce...it was one thing to move away....another to file for divorce. My friend was my strength....he allowed me to get the courage to put my husband out of my heart and to finally see him for what he was doing...I had always done this...but when he asked for forgiveness...I would tell myself...what kind of person would I be if I couldn't forgive him when god forgives me my sins......thus the 10 years of the abuse....

he broke a bone in my eye...and then went drinking for 2 1/2 hours and I had to take my children with me to the hospital because I couldn't see...I thought is was worse...if possible.....all he said at the time was that he should have broken both of them......even after this...I made excuses for his behavior.....once I met my friend....I stopped. I have had him arrested before....it never worked....the physical and verbal abuse has been continual for all of these years. I just felt that my love was being tested....some may say that these were excuses.

I know he only changed because of jealousy....and I feel bad because he is trying really hard to make things up to me by being so loving...I do believe with all of my heart that he wouldn't ever hurt me again. this is not payback....now instead of him breaking my heart...i will be breaking his...i have a hard time doing this.....I don't want to be in this marriage....i know that.....but I don't know if I have the strength to leave....guilt of doing the wrong thing. I don't like to hurt people....especially someone who I can see is truly trying....but I don't want to be the way I used to be...making excuses....I don't want to be "stuck" in a marriage that i don't want to be in all because I feel that this is my obligation. I have felt stuck several times in my marriage....where I was given an opportunity to leave and divorce him but instead i prayed and kept my faith that this would change.

When I met my friend, wrong or right, I truly and honestly felt that he was sent my way....I wasn't looking or trying to meet anyone..i was still fighting with my husband every weekend....(my youngest used to tell me that the reason dad treats me so bad is because once Friday came around, he would come back to my house and I would let him...no matter what)....I felt the love and respect that I haven't had in over 17 years....before the physical abuse started....there was always verbal abuse....downgrading me.....that is why I fell in love with my FRIEND. his respect, love, morals, principls, everything......

I have faith....but its my choices that I doubt.....I know what I WANT to do....but is it right.....??



benelchi -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 2:51:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TorchHeart

quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi

I want to echo what Laura said i.e. "slow down!". Unlike a few of the posters here, I really do believe that reconciliation is always best if it is at all possible, and I would encourage you to give 100% to trying to reconcile your marriage, BUT if you want your marriage to have a chance you are going to need to pursue reconciliation with a lot of wisdom and support from those who will truly give you godly counsel. The pattern of abuse you described is one that is not easily broken, especially when there has been a history of drug and alcohol abuse, and with out a lot of hard work from your husband it will be a problem again. Both you and he will need to be actively involved in the recovery process. You need help from people who understand the nature of abuse and addiction that you have experienced in your marriage. They need to be aware of ALL of the problems i.e. physical abuse, alcohol and drug abuse, and you need a plan to address these issue over the long term. With good Christian counsel, lots and lots of pray, and a plan to truly address this problem, I truly believe God can give you the marriage you desire, but please don't try and shortcut the process because the results of doing so almost never turn out good. Going back to him for the night, moving back in, etc... may be the absolute worst things you could be doing for your marriage right now. Get help first and then seek counsel about when and how to take these steps!


I would also agree that the reconciliation is always best. But like you said, its best IF IT IS AT ALL POSSIBLE! If she was leaving her husband over some argument, or something petty, or even because she felt that she didn't love him anymore, then I would totally be on your side. This is a completely different situation, though. Abuse is nothing to mess around with, and nobody should have to take it. When you're dealing with situations like that, you may have to just admit that the marriage may have to be abandoned. If its going to come down to risking your life and the life of your children just to try and salvage a marriage to an abusive spouce, I don't see how you can stay in it.

Some people do NOT change. Some situations do NOT get better. And, I'm sorry, but sometimes people DO marry the wrong person and end up in terrible situations. In situations like that, there are sometimes no other options. And having seen the end results of situations like this, I'm hesitant to tell anyone to totally rule out abandoning the marriage and moving on with their lives. I applaud anyone who will go for reconcilation and try to work things out. But sometimes, it just doesn't.


First, I never said that anyone "should have to take it" when it comes to abuse, my advice was entirely the opposite! Safety is always my first concern, and if you read my post I made that pretty clear.

Second, I know that some people do NOT change, probably better than most, but I can tell you from first hand experience that handling a bad situation in a godly way is always best, even if your spouse doesn't change and divorce is the outcome; however, more times than not being obedient to God in tough situations like this results in the restoration of the marriage. You are right, there are no guarantees that God will restore the marriage, but I will guarantee that the best possible outcome always comes by following God's plan for marriage; I can guarantee that because that is what God has promised in his word.



quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi

Sometimes it takes a while to get our feelings to follow our will, but it is important that we choose to love even when the feelings are not there. Couples who have gone through these "loveless" periods in their marriages, and have done the work to deal with the problems, almost always report greater satisfaction and love in their marriages in the following years. The feelings can and do change.


No offense, but I think this was a little more than a "loveless period in a marriage." He beat her bad enough to break bones in her body. And it wasn't the first time he struck her either.


And there have been others in the exact same position as this woman is in right now who have had their marriages restored and are thankful that they stuck it out. Again I do understand the severity of this situation which is why I strongly suggested that this woman not return to her home until she has the help she needs to truly address the issue of physical abuse (and the drug and alcohol abuse), but it is not unreasonable for her to seek reconciliation if it is done with wisdom and care, and a truly reconciled marriage is the best possible outcome.



quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi


As far as your feelings for your friend go, those too will change if you do not feed your desire. Despite what some have said on this thread, the relationship was wrong and I would strongly encourage you not to act out on the feelings you have for this man. Someone suggested that maybe God sent this man into your life, but I assure you that is not the case because God never encourages us to sin.


I love how people on this forum are so eager to point out what they believe is sin. It makes for a lot of fun and persecution, doesn't it.


This statement was completely uncalled for. NO, I don't love to point out peoples sin, and no it is not "a lot of fun." I pointed this out because I believe God when he says that sin damages us, it is not ever what God desires for us. And those who choose a path of sin do get HURT! Whether or not this woman is able to reconcile her marriage or not, she will be far better off if she chooses to be obedient to Christ. The reconciliation of her marriage will depend on the actions of her husband (something she can not control), but obedience to Christ is something she can and should choose for herself.

quote:


Maybe he was there to help her gain her trust back in men? Maybe he was there for other reasons? Or maybe she is supposed to leave her abusive husband? Maybe what happened with her friend will show her that she can return to her marriage. You don't know God's mind on this, and neither do I. And I'm not going to go as far as to say she sinned, because I don't believe she did.


pursuing a relationship with another man while you still are married is sinful, no matter the circumstances, and this is not something God would lead a person to do.

quote:


benelchi: I don't mean to sound cross or harsh in my response to you. We obviously have differing opinions on this, and I do understand where you're coming from with your views. But I do feel (for lack of a better term) that they're missing some common sense. While faith is important, so is the well-being of this woman and her children.


No one ever suggested that anyones well-being should be put in jeopardy. What you have setup here is a false dichotomy; this woman has no reason to choose between safety and faith in God, she really can choose both.



sudden -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 3:01:07 PM)

Wow! You have guts trying to go back with this guy. It's not that people can't change...it's that change is often a long process and a very bumpy one. Most women who stay with abusers are holding out HOPE. It seems you have lost yours...and a good thing it is because I believe you were in a very dangerous situation (providing he is the one who broke the bone - you didn't say who) [;)].

As for your new "friend". While your friend, from your description, seems quite nice, two and a half months is a very short time to "know "someone. I would suggest that you don't "know" him at all. The first 6 months or so of any dating period is like a honey-moon, where you are blind to the other person's shortcomings.

If you do leave your husband I beg you to give this new relationship a lot more time before doing anything rash. He is divorced. Chances are it was not entirely his wife's fault but this is something that will come out in time as you get to know one another.

It would be sad indeed to go from the frying pan into the fire.

Will pray for your situation sis.

Sudden



laura... -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 3:03:08 PM)

quote:

I do believe with all of my heart that he wouldn't ever hurt me again.


Don't trust your heart. Get yourself to a good counselor who specializes in domestic violence. Your husband has constantly abused you for 10 years. His current show of love is most likely just a lull in the storm designed for his own purposes.



benelchi -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 3:06:19 PM)

quote:


I know he only changed because of jealousy....and I feel bad because he is trying really hard to make things up to me by being so loving...I do believe with all of my heart that he wouldn't ever hurt me again. this is not payback....now instead of him breaking my heart...i will be breaking his...i have a hard time doing this.....I don't want to be in this marriage....i know that.....but I don't know if I have the strength to leave....guilt of doing the wrong thing. I don't like to hurt people....especially someone who I can see is truly trying....but I don't want to be the way I used to be...making excuses....I don't want to be "stuck" in a marriage that i don't want to be in all because I feel that this is my obligation. I have felt stuck several times in my marriage....where I was given an opportunity to leave and divorce him but instead i prayed and kept my faith that this would change.


I think that your husbands change is a good reason to look at reconciliation, BUT the fact that you would say that "I do believe with all of my heart that he wouldn't ever hurt me again." is a clear indication of why you both need counseling before you ever try to return to the home. This is just foolishness. Given the history you have recounted, I would say that right now it is not a matter of if he will abuse you again, but when will it happen again. Don't put yourself or your children in a position to be abused. You and your husband have truly must get the help you need to resolve this issue and realize that is going to take a LOT OF TIME! This is not something quickly fixed.

God really can restore your marriage, but both of you are going to have to recognize the depth of the problem and submit it to him first. In many ways you still seem to be making excuses for your husband and that is not really going to help anyone, and it could end up getting you hurt yet again. PLEASE DON'T DO THAT!



benelchi -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 3:16:14 PM)

quote:


If your children are crying at the prospect of you and their father reconciling then I would not recommend that you pursue reconcilliation at this time. Under some of the worst of circumstances children long for their parents to reconcile. It has to have been extremely bad for your children to not want that to happen. Keep your home with your children separate from their father until such time as he has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to both you and your children that he is a safe person. That could very well not happen until they are adults if ever.


I would definitely recommend that she pursue reconciliation at this time, but recognize the reconciliation is something that will take a long, long time in this circumstance, if it is ever possible; it could be literally years before she should ever consider moving back home (or even spending the night). The choice to choose reconciliation now is a matter of choosing now to pursue that opportunity if possible, to seek counseling, and encourage her husband to get the help he needs. It is a matter of a heart choice she makes today, and not necessarily a reflection of the actions she takes today. Seeing God's forgiveness demonstrated is the best possible thing for her children, if it is combined with the wisdom to keep her and her children safe.



rtvasquez -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 3:18:18 PM)

Not that this is irony....it is ...... but let's say its not (for my sake)....I have worked in a woman's shelter for almost two years...and i am in the legal field.....I have had my divorce papers drawn up since 1999....it is just that me being a christian....refused to see things the way they were....I chose to see them as a trial of my love...(like in the book of JOB).....I have always known what to do....just never had the guts to follow through for fear of God and of not seeing things through....when I should....

needless to say, yes...all of this abuse was with my husband......and being in the legal field..i pulled open my FRIENDS divorce papers, did a back ground check and I have even spoke with his ex-wife.....she had the affair that ended their marriage..and she acknowledged it....to me. She confirmed to me what I already knew....he is a great guy....he never tried to control her and trusted her whole heartedly...whereas she would go out with friends...hence she had a year long affair and is still doing it...with a person she met.....that said....I reaffirm that he is a great guy.

I still have my issues with do i lose such a great guy whom my boys can look up to...whom they already do...because of his sincerity....or do I chance it and give their dad another chance (losing my FRIEND) with no guarantee that he'd change......or that I would be happy in my marriage.



benelchi -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 3:29:35 PM)

quote:

I still have my issues with do i lose such a great guy whom my boys can look up to...whom they already do...because of his sincerity....or do I chance it and give their dad another chance (losing my FRIEND) with no guarantee that he'd change......or that I would be happy in my marriage.


Statistically if you choose to go for the friend, you will almost guarantee yourself of another failed relationship. Everything you have described about this new relationship puts you in a very high risk of failure. One, you would be choosing to pursue a relationship that you know is wrong, with someone else who is choosing to do the same. That leave way to much room for distrust down the road i.e. you both will be wondering if the other person will do this again with someone else. Two, you are involved in a rebound relationship, these relationships are characterized by poor judgment which is why they have such a reputation (even among non-Christians) as being potential disasters.

It really takes a long time for a heart to heal from the destruction of a 17 year long relationship. Take a lot of time for yourself to heal before getting involve in another relationship, and use that time to see if your marriage can be restored while keeping yourself safe.



laura... -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 3:33:22 PM)

quote:

I still have my issues with do i lose such a great guy whom my boys can look up to...whom they already do...because of his sincerity....or do I chance it and give their dad another chance (losing my FRIEND) with no guarantee that he'd change......or that I would be happy in my marriage.


It really bothers me that you are seeing this whole thing as choosing between a great guy or your husband. The "great guy" is just masking the real issue. The REAL choice is whether or not you reconcile with an abusive husband. The REAL choice is whether or not you put your children back into a home with an abusive father.

quote:

Not that this is irony....it is ...... but let's say its not (for my sake)....I have worked in a woman's shelter for almost two years...and i am in the legal field.....I have had my divorce papers drawn up since 1999....it is just that me being a christian....refused to see things the way they were....I chose to see them as a trial of my love...(like in the book of JOB).....I have always known what to do....just never had the guts to follow through for fear of God and of not seeing things through....when I should....


If you have always known what to do...then do it.



CheshireMuse -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 3:39:22 PM)

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but, what I'm "hearing" in your posts sounds like you've really already made your decision, but you haven't acted on it because of fear..... and even though you mention fear of God as one of the reasons you haven't filed, you've mentioned fear of your husband more than once. In fact, you sounded like you were very afraid when you learned that your husband had found out about your friend.

Let me reinterate something here.... I believe that divorce should be a last resort... but, as Laura observed, if your children are actually upset because you MIGHT get back together with their father - this is a major red flag.

I have no wish to try and make this decision for you by telling you that this is sin or that is sin.... I'm human and fallible, therefore, I have no right to point out problems in someone else's life.... However, I am very concerned about you and your children's safety....

I've been where you are.... I am not with my first husband any longer and I thank God every single day that I'm not. I see in you the same feelings and attitudes I had when I was still in my situation. You are at the top of my prayer list....

No - divorce is not the ideal. But, then again, it isn't the end of the world either. God is merciful and compassionate. Seek Him before you make any decisions.



quote:

ORIGINAL: rtvasquez

Not that this is irony....it is ...... but let's say its not (for my sake)....I have worked in a woman's shelter for almost two years...and i am in the legal field.....I have had my divorce papers drawn up since 1999....it is just that me being a christian....refused to see things the way they were....I chose to see them as a trial of my love...(like in the book of JOB).....I have always known what to do....just never had the guts to follow through for fear of God and of not seeing things through....when I should....

needless to say, yes...all of this abuse was with my husband......and being in the legal field..i pulled open my FRIENDS divorce papers, did a back ground check and I have even spoke with his ex-wife.....she had the affair that ended their marriage..and she acknowledged it....to me. She confirmed to me what I already knew....he is a great guy....he never tried to control her and trusted her whole heartedly...whereas she would go out with friends...hence she had a year long affair and is still doing it...with a person she met.....that said....I reaffirm that he is a great guy.

I still have my issues with do i lose such a great guy whom my boys can look up to...whom they already do...because of his sincerity....or do I chance it and give their dad another chance (losing my FRIEND) with no guarantee that he'd change......or that I would be happy in my marriage.



TorchHeart -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 3:58:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi


First, I never said that anyone "should have to take it" when it comes to abuse, my advice was entirely the opposite! Safety is always my first concern, and if you read my post I made that pretty clear.

Second, I know that some people do NOT change, probably better than most, but I can tell you from first hand experience that handling a bad situation in a godly way is always best, even if your spouse doesn't change and divorce is the outcome; however, more times than not being obedient to God in tough situations like this results in the restoration of the marriage. You are right, there are no guarantees that God will restore the marriage, but I will guarantee that the best possible outcome always comes by following God's plan for marriage; I can guarantee that because that is what God has promised in his word.


First, to say that saying your advice was the opposite is a vast over-statement. I see where you say that she should take her time in moving back in with her husband, but I don't see anywhere you saying that she shouldn't have to be abused (of course, maybe that should've been implied... but still). My reading into what you're saying is quite different, and I'm sorry if that's not how you meant it. What I see is you saying that she should return to an abusive relationship whatever the cost, whether to herself or her kids. I'm sorry if that's not how you meant it.

I don't knock your desire to have her try and salvage the marriage. I'll agree with you that a salvaged marriage IS the best outcome. Of course, when a marriage is abusive and has reached the levels that this one has, I question if God really ordained these two people to be together. I believe that it is possible that this was a mistake by the both of them, and there is no sense for one to risk their life in such a situation.


quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi

And there have been others in the exact same position as this woman is in right now who have had their marriages restored and are thankful that they stuck it out. Again I do understand the severity of this situation which is why I strongly suggested that this woman not return to her home until she has the help she needs to truly address the issue of physical abuse (and the drug and alcohol abuse), but it is not unreasonable for her to seek reconciliation if it is done with wisdom and care, and a truly reconciled marriage is the best possible outcome.


Yes, and there have been countless others who have stayed in the relationship too long and ended up severely injured or dead. Furthermore, I would hardly calll your "suggestion" not to return home to her husband yet "strong;" more like an after-thought.

And while, again, I have to agree that a reconciled marriage is the best possible outcome, I believe that it has to be acknowledged that it might very well NOT be possible. While its not unreasonable to assume the reconciliation of the marriage may be possilbe, it is equally unreasonable to assume that (considering the level of abuse) it may not be, as well.



quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi

This statement was completely uncalled for.


You're right, it wasn't called for, which is why I deleted it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi
NO, I don't love to point out peoples sin, and no it is not "a lot of fun." I pointed this out because I believe God when he says that sin damages us, it is not ever what God desires for us. And those who choose a path of sin do get HURT!


People who DON'T choose a path of sin get hurt, too. Or are you strictly speaking spiritually?

quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi
Whether or not this woman is able to reconcile her marriage or not, she will be far better off if she chooses to be obedient to Christ. The reconciliation of her marriage will depend on the actions of her husband (something she can not control), but obedience to Christ is something she can and should choose for herself.


Nobody is telling her not to be obedient to Christ. I am, however, telling her to be careful and not get herself killed. As, I'm guessing, you are too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi
pursuing a relationship with another man while you still are married is sinful, no matter the circumstances, and this is not something God would lead a person to do.


Fine. I understand her circumstances and why she did it (she was planning on getting the divorce). She was intending to get the divorce, but got ahead of herself. I think you and I are just going to have to butt heads here, and leave it at that.

Still, to say that God DIDN'T bring this person into her life for the purpose of helping her in the situation that she is in.



quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi
No one ever suggested that anyones well-being should be put in jeopardy. What you have setup here is a false dichotomy; this woman has no reason to choose between safety and faith in God, she really can choose both.


I NEVER created a false dichotomy. I did NOT state that she had to choose between faith and safety. I stated that because I felt (and feel) that you were not putting her safety into perspective, and focusing only on the aspect of getting her to reconcile with her husband.



benelchi -> RE: marriage or single (7/23/2008 4:36:07 PM)

quote:

Yes, and there have been countless others who have stayed in the relationship too long and ended up severely injured or dead. Furthermore, I would hardly call your "suggestion" not to return home to her husband yet "strong;" more like an after-thought.



It really wasn't an after-thougt, here is what I said in my very first post:

"the abuse you described that resulted in a broken bone is very serious, and I would encourage you to NOT go back until you have met with a good Christian counselor, and have spent enough time working through the issues to know that your safety will not be threatened"



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