Sound advise (Full Version)

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quaidnewcome -> Sound advise (7/22/2008 12:20:45 PM)

I've thought for a long time that it would be great to have a thread specifically for those of us who operate the PA systems for Southern Gospel groups/churches/ those who work in recording studios, or anything else that revolves around doing sound in the Lord's work.
If you're like me, you are a sound nut......you could eat and sleep at a live or studio sound system. Any general sound questions/advise...any very specific sound questions...let's post 'em. Hope we all can help each other learn more about efficently and properly operating the PA.



quaidnewcome -> RE: Sound advise (7/22/2008 12:29:51 PM)

First off, I noticed that on the Inspirations' 40th Anniversary Reunion video that every member, except Mike Holcombe, were using Audio-Technica Pro 37 condenser mics. Those are great mics, I have 2 or 3 of them. Many people want to use them for bass singers.
But, in my opionion, they add too much "mud" to a bass vocalist, especially if it's running through a PA system equipped with subwoofers. I've tried singing bass with them, and find it harder (compared to using other mics) to clarify my voice, thus it's hard to understand the words.
I noticed on the video the exact same thing when Marlin Shebert sang bass. He was harder to understand than Mike.
So my question is, what mic is Mike (say that 5 times fast[:D]) using during that concert? It somewhat resembles, in shape, a Shure PG81, but I don't really think that's what it is. The capsule looks to large to be one of those.



quaidnewcome -> RE: Sound advise (7/23/2008 6:10:54 PM)

No one here is a sound tech or has ever had any experience with a PA or recording studio ???????

Wait, I get it........no one wants to ADMIT to it. [&:] There'd be too many comments from people automatically yelling "TURN IT DOWN", no matter what was being dicussed. [8D][:)]
JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!

If there's anyone here that would reply, permit me to ask, what kind of sound system do you use? Why did you/ your group/your studio choose that particular setup over other offerings on the market?

It will take quite a while for me to compile and post a list of the gear I use.



rogasinger4Him -> RE: Sound advise (7/23/2008 8:32:16 PM)

My sound system is a very old Peavey 600C Mixer/amp , 15" Stagemaster speaker(never heard of the brand till I bought these used), a Galaxy Hotspot monitor, 4 SHS corded mics that I rarely use, 2 wireless mics, A Sennheiser Freeport and an Audio Technica 700 series.

Only the wireless mics and the hotspot were bought new.

Oh I almost forgot. My music is on my Toshiba laptop and I bought the Emcee Pro software. (I absolutely love EmceePro! Make organizing my programs very easy.

There is definitely a lot of better equipment out there but this fit my very limited budget at the time I bought it and will have to do until I finish my CD project and can afford to start upgrading.

I'd love to have twin Bose PS2 towers and a 16 channel Yamaha mixer someday but until then I'll keep singing the Lord's praises with what He has given me.[sm=note.gif][sm=icon_smile_sing.gif][sm=note.gif]



iluvatar -> RE: Sound advise (7/23/2008 9:32:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: quaidnewcome

I've thought for a long time that it would be great to have a thread specifically for those of us who operate the PA systems for Southern Gospel groups/churches/ those who work in recording studios, or anything else that revolves around doing sound in the Lord's work.
If you're like me, you are a sound nut......you could eat and sleep at a live or studio sound system. Any general sound questions/advise...any very specific sound questions...let's post 'em. Hope we all can help each other learn more about efficently and properly operating the PA.


I cut my teeth doing sound in nightclubs and with a regional sound company doing shows anywhere in size from a 16ch Mackie w/ a PA-on-a-stick to a 48ch Midas & Vertec 4889's. Right now I work for a pro audio equipment dealership that has a recording studio built around a heavily modded Yamaha PM2K, iZ Radar, & Logic Pro 8. My current interest is not so much in recording music, but in recording sound effects/foley and sound design for video games. I've just started trying to develop my own Half-Life 2 mod so I can get some practice integrating audio into a game.

My church is doing some upgrades to their PA system and if we only had another $30K, we could get some of the toys that I want to play with every week. oh well. [8D]

-Dan.



iluvatar -> RE: Sound advise (7/23/2008 9:35:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: quaidnewcome

First off, I noticed that on the Inspirations' 40th Anniversary Reunion video that every member, except Mike Holcombe, were using Audio-Technica Pro 37 condenser mics. Those are great mics, I have 2 or 3 of them. Many people want to use them for bass singers.
But, in my opionion, they add too much "mud" to a bass vocalist, especially if it's running through a PA system equipped with subwoofers. I've tried singing bass with them, and find it harder (compared to using other mics) to clarify my voice, thus it's hard to understand the words.
I noticed on the video the exact same thing when Marlin Shebert sang bass. He was harder to understand than Mike.
So my question is, what mic is Mike (say that 5 times fast[:D]) using during that concert? It somewhat resembles, in shape, a Shure PG81, but I don't really think that's what it is. The capsule looks to large to be one of those.


I'm not an SG fan, so I'm not familiar with these videos, but I am familiar with the fact that many singers prefer using SDC microphones. Can someone explain to me how you guys deals with the handling noise from these mics? Normally, I'd put a HPF on a vocal mic somewhere around 80-100Hz, but that would defeat the purpose of using a mic with an extended LF response for a bass singer.

-Dan.



servants -> RE: Sound advise (7/23/2008 10:01:49 PM)

Our quartet uses 4 Shure wireless 24slx/beta87c mics, 2 EV ZX4's for main speakers, 2 EV Eliminator Subs, 2 EV ZX1's for monitors, Allen & Heath Mix Wiz 3 and a DBX drive rack system amoung other stuff but that covers the main stuff. We really like it. We have had a lot of other equipment but we like this combo best.



armydude -> RE: Sound advise (7/23/2008 10:07:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: quaidnewcome

I've thought for a long time that it would be great to have a thread specifically for those of us who operate the PA systems for Southern Gospel groups/churches/ those who work in recording studios, or anything else that revolves around doing sound in the Lord's work.
If you're like me, you are a sound nut......you could eat and sleep at a live or studio sound system. Any general sound questions/advise...any very specific sound questions...let's post 'em. Hope we all can help each other learn more about efficently and properly operating the PA.
I just noticed this. I operate the sound equipment at my church. I'll check in tomorrow, but as of now, I'm going to bed.



quaidnewcome -> RE: Sound advise (7/24/2008 9:24:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: iluvatar

quote:

ORIGINAL: quaidnewcome

First off, I noticed that on the Inspirations' 40th Anniversary Reunion video that every member, except Mike Holcombe, were using Audio-Technica Pro 37 condenser mics. Those are great mics, I have 2 or 3 of them. Many people want to use them for bass singers.
But, in my opionion, they add too much "mud" to a bass vocalist, especially if it's running through a PA system equipped with subwoofers. I've tried singing bass with them, and find it harder (compared to using other mics) to clarify my voice, thus it's hard to understand the words.
I noticed on the video the exact same thing when Marlin Shebert sang bass. He was harder to understand than Mike.
So my question is, what mic is Mike (say that 5 times fast[:D]) using during that concert? It somewhat resembles, in shape, a Shure PG81, but I don't really think that's what it is. The capsule looks to large to be one of those.


I'm not an SG fan, so I'm not familiar with these videos, but I am familiar with the fact that many singers prefer using SDC microphones. Can someone explain to me how you guys deals with the handling noise from these mics? Normally, I'd put a HPF on a vocal mic somewhere around 80-100Hz, but that would defeat the purpose of using a mic with an extended LF response for a bass singer.

-Dan.

No, it doesn't "defeat the purpose". Low-cuts are absolutley vital in preventing power-robbing "pops" and "thuds". For instance, if someone drops a mic, without the low cut engaged, you could very eaisily damage the woofers in your system.
I've found that a cleaner, more articulate bass vocal can be producud with the low cut engaged (my Carvin boards have 75Hz, 18 deciable-per-octive filters) and the low EQ on a channel strip slightly boosted.
In addition, using the low cut switch/knob on a master graphic or parametric EQ and/or power amp will optomise the sound and help preserve system headroom.



quaidnewcome -> RE: Sound advise (7/24/2008 9:28:08 AM)

Another thing, AT Pro 37's were originally designed as acoustic instrument mics. So the high end rolls off more so than on other mics. It's frequency responce within + or - 3db is 30Hz-15KHz. Pratically all good vocal mics have a frequency responce up to at least 18KHz, with the majority of condensers stretching to 20KHz. Beleive me, it makes a huge audiable difference.



quaidnewcome -> RE: Sound advise (7/24/2008 9:36:57 AM)

A great web resource for tech tips about sound systems is on Rane's website, in their RaneNote Tutorials:

http://www.rane.com/library.html#rnotes

I followed the procedures of the one about gain structure, and honestly, heard a major improvement, ((specifically in the S/N ratio (that's signal-to-noise ratio)) in the system's quallity. Check it out here:

http://www.rane.com/note135.html



iluvatar -> RE: Sound advise (7/25/2008 8:42:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: quaidnewcome

Another thing, AT Pro 37's were originally designed as acoustic instrument mics. So the high end rolls off more so than on other mics. It's frequency responce within + or - 3db is 30Hz-15KHz. Pratically all good vocal mics have a frequency responce up to at least 18KHz, with the majority of condensers stretching to 20KHz. Beleive me, it makes a huge audiable difference.


How does that bump at 8KHz affect sibilance?

-Dan.



quaidnewcome -> RE: Sound advise (7/25/2008 1:44:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: iluvatar

quote:

ORIGINAL: quaidnewcome

Another thing, AT Pro 37's were originally designed as acoustic instrument mics. So the high end rolls off more so than on other mics. It's frequency responce within + or - 3db is 30Hz-15KHz. Pratically all good vocal mics have a frequency responce up to at least 18KHz, with the majority of condensers stretching to 20KHz. Beleive me, it makes a huge audiable difference.


How does that bump at 8KHz affect sibilance?

-Dan.

You mean on the Pro 37's frequency responce chart?
Wait.............upon looking at the brochure that came with the mic, I see that, yes there is a 3 or 4 db bump @ 8KHz.
Of course, if you stick it in front of a singer who over- enuncuates, you may notice some sibliance. In addition, as I'm sure you're aware, the amount of sibilacne depends on how sensitive an operator's hearing is, how the mic is EQ'd ,what type of horns/tweeters a system has, the amount of power going to them, and more so, the EQ curve of the system's master EQ.
Also an operator needs to consider the type of effects are being used. For
example, I've found that plates tend to increase sibilance more so than any other effect I've tried.
As for my usage and preferances, I can't stand to hear sibilance, and want to have absolutley NONE. With that said, I've never had a sibilance problem when using the Pro 37's.
The best place I've found to buy them is All Pro Sound, out of Pensacola, Florida. You can get them there for around $90-$99. In addition, All Pro Sound spefically gives additional discounts to those who are ordering for chruches, and schools.
I've seen those mics @ Sweetwater (in Ft. Wayne, Indiana) and in Musicians Friend (Oregon) for $139. A in state store I've done buisness with called Sound Ideas had them in a catalog for $169.
Go figure...........AT's factory is in Akron, Ohio. Sound Ideas in in Columbus, Ohio. But I have to order out of Flordia to get the best price.[&:]



iluvatar -> RE: Sound advise (7/29/2008 9:30:38 PM)

If anybody's interested, a guy on the TapeOp message board is selling a pair of these for $170 + shipping:

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=57022

-Dan.



quaidnewcome -> RE: Sound advise (8/6/2008 9:22:04 AM)

Anyone ever use or hear the Electro-Voice ZX1-90 speaker?



prt3348 -> RE: Sound advise (8/6/2008 11:53:45 AM)

Yes, The ZX I-90 is a small near-field speaker. 200-300W this speaker
would be used primarily for choir fills in a church sanctuary or other close-in uses.(monitors for a singing group or musicians) great little speakers



servants -> RE: Sound advise (8/6/2008 1:22:02 PM)

We use the ZX1 speakers for monitors and they work great. They have plenty of volume and a good sound.



quaidnewcome -> RE: Sound advise (8/7/2008 2:58:55 PM)

I need to sell a Mackie 24.8 board, it's meter bridge, and power supply. If anyone's interested, send me a PM.



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