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ORIGINAL: shadowspring

They feel that way because they have been betrayed by their husbands (he is not enthralled with their beauty-any stranger will do!) and the man they once respected, a man made in the image of God and washed in the blood of the Lamb, has shown that he is no better than a rutting animal.

No better than a rotting animal?

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ORIGINAL: p.progress

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ORIGINAL: Hislittleone

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ORIGINAL: jaimestarcross

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I KNOW that God has removed me from the burden of carring a sinful mans consequences. A man who refuses to repeant (truely) come clean and do what is right. Now He is telling me to dust off my feet and leave the home or town of a sinful people who will not listen or change their ways.

*You didn't have to stay in a home where porn and lies were an ongoing thing --- here's the verses of scripture:
"I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat." {1 Corinthians 5:9-11}

I agree. LilyJolene, I'm so sorry that your husband has chosen this path. IMO you aren't required to stay with a man who is constantly being unfaithful. In fact, in some situations like this it comes to a point where staying could be more harmful than leaving. It sounds like you've done all that you could do (and then some) to save this marriage but it takes two people to have a marriage.

I don't think that sexual immorality/adultery can be compared to eating unhealthy foods. It's just not even in the same ballpark. There's a big difference between unhealthy eating habits and cheating on one's spouse. At least when you eat unhealthy foods you are mainly harming yourself but when a husband looks at porn he is breaking his marriage vows and commiting adultery in his heart/mind which directly affects the wife.

ETA: If I knew that my choosing to eat a deep fried twinky would break my husband's heart I would not even think of looking at one. It would be a great incentive to never eat one again. So if a husband knows that looking at porn will break his wife's heart why would he go ahead and do it? God has given us freedom. We aren't slaves to sin anymore. Therefore it is possible for ALL Christian men to give up porn cold turkey. Sadly though IME most choose not to. It may be hard but it is a choice.

To both you and jamiestarcross:

You have cited ONE SINGLE solitary passage - an ISOLATED passage, and taken IT OUT OF the contextual setting of EVERYTHING ELSE that the Lord has expressed in his Will (the Scriptures and the instructions and commands therein), that must be examined on this question of 'separation' from sinners.

Are you really trying to claim that there are no other passages to find and 'weigh in the balance' here? That this passage and this passage ALONE - or simular passages like unto it, are the ONLY instructions given to believers when facing the prospect of being in the company of and with sinners...those who obviously are disobedient and obey not the Word of God? Is that what you are saying here? Is this your advice? In the absence of hearing (reading otherwise) what else am I to conclude?

Yes, there are other passages that would apply. Those are the ones I wished to address at the moment I was posting. I NEVER said that there were NO other Scriptures that would apply. There are many passages that could apply and be brought up.

You quote 1Cor.5:9-11 as if IT is "ALL the counsel of God" to take into consideration here in this sad and grievous situation that LilyJolene has laid out in her posts. You have failed to - or shunned to declare all the counsel of God on the subject at hand, takiing into consideration that LilyJolene is not speaking about some professing brother and 'member' of an assembly here or there; but is speaking about and asking advise about what she ought to do in the circumstances she faces as a wife; the wife of a husband that apparently obeys not the Word. So what DOES the Lord instruct a wife in such a case as this? Does he say ANYWHERE to take him away from her presence? Purge him from her life and his own household? Cast him out? Or depart from him? Is that what the Lord says? ''

As a wife (as long as she is indeed married to a believer) then she is also his sister in Christ. Yes, the Lord says "with such a man do not even eat". I'm sorry if that passage offends you but I didn't write it. And I didn't quote it as if it's ALL the counsel of God. It is part of the counsel.


LilyJolene, you have admitted to being argry and frustrated (etc., and not admited to some other things that your posts reveal about your spiritual state of health at present)...you, it sounds like, have 'come to the end of your rope', so to speak. You have lost hope in her husband every changing, and that includes lost hope in him being for you what you need him to be. Yes? Yes!

But can I say this without you thinking I lack empathy for you, for I have; or that I am condemning of you, for I am not. But I see things differently, based upon: one, my own experiences I have been made to pass through; and two, those I have been responsible for having been the cause, others I love, to pass through; but three, and more importantly, I see that God's Word, though perhaps tough to swallow and continue to holdfast to in the midst of suffering and trials even grievous afflictions; yet there is no better alternative to cling to and have hope in. WE all need to be reminded of this, though we 'know them', that our...the HOPE of God, is NOT in people, and must not be placed in them at any time. And your hope has got to be stripped from you that is in that which God never intended you to place it in. Your hope for peace, joy, contentm,ent and fulfillment IS not and CANNOT be in your husband, or his restoration to sanity; that is, to fulfill his responsibilities before God, meaning, to fulfill God's will as a husband, a husband to you.

Your hope CANNOT be in anything other that ETERNAL things - the temporal hopes you have in any, your husband included, to provide peace and joy (etc.) in your life and heart are only as solid as God's Word promises to provide you with these through him. And the good news is that God has not promised you such things through your husband!!! So you can give up on that vain hope and know that you have just fuliflled God's will for you at least in that one thing!

I am not making light whatsoever of your husband's sin or how it has affected you. But you need not concern yourself with changing him (as you say you now know and are not trying to do). Your focus needs and must now be (as it has always needed to be) to trust solely in God, not in man for your contentment and joy. Though it is grievous to pass through the sorrows and afflictions and whatever else will be associated with being subjection to your "own" husband, there is a promise of peace and joy that does indeed pass ALL UNDERSTANDING! It is though in the abiding in Christ, remaining in his love or "keeping in the love of God" as the apostle depicts it, that the child of God can only be assured of this sustaining and perserving peace and joy.

It is easy to ignore the need for this when much or all that is outward (of a temporal nature) is seemingly fine in one's life: "I have a good and gentle and godly husband, my children are sound and well adjusted, I have a nice home, I have good health, I have no pressing financial concerns, I have good standing among my peers.", and so on. There are I fear, many who lean on these things and mistake the lack and absence of such conflict in their lives for the peace of God that truly ONLY is experienced by the cultivation of the soul in the presence of Christ when they meet with him to refresh themselves in him.

I am not speaking pie in the sky or trying to appear or wax spiritual. What I speak of is labor intensive. There is a real battle and perhaps even sweat - certainly tears involved in keeping in the love of God, abiding in this presence. The more you do so in times of solitude and prayer and worship (say in the early morning), the more that you will carry that experience into and throughout the day.

Do as it instructs and gives insight to you as a wife in Peter's letter (1pt.3.1-6; 2.18-3-6) and as a believer (these passages and all of that letter). It 3:1-6, you are told to trust in God. To say it another way (as other passages clearly express this) you are not to trust in man - any man, including your own husband. That does not mean to be suspicious of them in a unhealthy way, but to not lean upon them where only God is to be counted on and trusted to be ever faithful to perform.

You are clearly instructed by the Lord to obey (submissively) your husband and to do so with a reverence (fear: phobos). And get it once and for all clear that it says this, obviously anticipating the natural reactions within the woman, that would tend to cause her to justify sidestepping this and find a way to outright refuse to conform your behavior to these commands. Obedience needs to be in accordance to these instructions - in total and in accordance to the other passages throughout scripture that speaks to this call of God to the woman and to wives, and how they are to live before God, dwelling with their husbands. To mix these instructions with a vain hope that in doing all this stuff, I'll be rewarded with a good an godly husband who'll love and cherish me is to focus on what is not absolutely promised by God. There is no promise of his changing, but there is the promise of from God of peace and joy to the one who flees not from her husband, but flees to God; and the promise of hearing well done thou good and faithful servant; and the promise that you will be called a daughter of Sarah - "as long as you do well, and are not afraid with any amazement". It may be that your husband may change and come to his senses, come to God and find the power of Christ to be delivered of his sins of the flesh (lusting after other women, etc.). It is more likely I believe that this could occur as you consistently manifest before him your love and fear of God, your trust in and leaning upon God alone, for your needs to be met, and your reverence for him, as manifested by having reverence for your husband - disobedient as he is, or as he sounds to be.

So when a husband is living his life in a rebellious, deceitful, adulterous way the wife is supposed to be quiet and submit and not address his sin? I disagree.

Also, don't forget this verse: Ephesians 5:21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.------highlight added

It prefaces the passage that instructs wives to submit and husband's to lay down their lives for their wives just as Christ did for the Church.


When it says "that if any obey not the Word" it is speaking of just what your husband is displaying. He is not obeying, he is not persuaded sufficiently enough to be sure that God's commands are meant to be kept by him. The enslavement that has gripped him is real and very strong. As a man I can assure you that he is not pleased with himself and is mortally ashamed deep with in himself for this weakness that has control of him. It is easier to give up drinking or gambling or whatever other vice one might become enslaved to of such nature. But when it comes to sexual sins...with a man, and I know you cannot really appreciate this fully not being one (as I am not a woman and cannot fully grasp issues with them), but think of it: We are designed to be agressive - its hormonal, as much as you are in your womanly hormonal issues... but it is hormonal and moreso. We are designed to be stimulated by sight, and it is strong within us - not absolutely uncontrolable, but strong. You all know this, hence the great emphasis upon the enhancement of the feminine forms natural allurement with manmade additives (make up, clothing, walk, etc., etc., etc.). The only thing that makes women so 'irresistable' is that we were designed to be strongly attracted to your feminine form, mannerisms and primary functions God designed in you and you for. But that thing is very powerful - just see where it got the Roman Catholic nonsensical dogma of the 'vow of celibacy' for those that become their priests, as one example of trying to 'out smart' that drive.

NIV says "if any of them do not believe the word". There's a big difference between "believe" and "obey". From my understanding this passage is speaking of husbands who are non-believers. When a husband is also a brother in Christ he is considered worse than an unbeliever if he calls himself a brother but persists in sexual immorality.

I believe that in this day and age we are too lax in our views of sexual purity. Just because it's hard doesn't mean we should excuse it.

Also, this issue only has control of him because he allows it too. As Christians we are NO LONGER SLAVES to sin. That means sin CANNOT control us.

Your husband has had to face the fact that there is NO WAY he's EVER going to GET AWAY FROM and ESCAPE Being visually 'attacked' by and 'broadsided' with 'sallies' of the feminine form...it is everwhere...YOU are everwhere. And here in South Florida, it is even more pronounced.

You REALLY can avoid the bars, the cigarettes, the dounuts, the ice cream, chocolate and race tracks and the like...and they are not even natural to our appetites, and they are not EVERYWHERE like the feminine form is EVERYWHERE to be SEEN.

He can avert his eyes from that which would cause him to stumble.

He can try all he wants to (when in the times I can guarentee you he has tried to) avoid noticing the forms of which he as a man is irresistably and I mean here naturally drawn to both appreciate in a good sense, or overly 'appreciate' in a lustful way; but it is futile. End of story. It is futile because he is a man and he was made to is driven to desire the things that God originally intended for the woman and the form of the woman to satisfy in the man.

Are you actually saying that it's useless to strive for complete purity because God Himself has made it impossible? Surely I am misunderstanding you..... My husband doesn't notice other female forms in an appreciative way (anymore). If my husband can do it then so can other Christian men.

But having said, that I am not admitting of the futility of having those drives for and the appreciation of the feminine form being harnessed and wholesomely kept in check, on a percentage scale that is. We are afterall fallen creatures - both men and women. Your husband is a son of Adam, as you are a daughter of Eve (and Adam).

Does that mean I can have an emotional affair that I'm unwilling to let go of year after year and still expect my husband to remain faithfully married to me? It's never ok to use our fallen humanity as an excuse for sin.
Also, what exactly does "percentage scale" mean?

At the fall...after the fall God commanded the woman to do that which seems mad in that he called her to accept the rule of her fallen husband, except the rule of man and to accept her role to be a submissive and subservient one to him. If you are offended by this, see it for yourself in the scriptures. If are unwilling to accept this and would rather label me what I am not, then you're relatrionship to your husband is most likely through on a horizonal level. I am not advocating anything but the will of God that will allow you to see your situation from his perspective, so that you might find peace and joy in spite of the circumstances of being the wife of a disobesient husband. Love God is to obey him. Obey and love God truly and sincerely will cause you to gird your loins and be a good and godly woman and wife to this man and leave his restoration to God in God's hands, and to wait patirnetly for God to do with this man as he sees fit to. Love him and IF OR WHEN he comes to his senses and finds victory to overcome his sins, he will bless you and praise you in the gates, to all and later before God. Don't doubt that. But do your own will, justify leaving him, and see where that will leave you and those looking on in the time to come.

Would you mind pointing out Scripture that says women are "subservient"? I don't recall ever reading that in the Bible.

A woman can look to God and hold on to Him but God is not going to do her husband's job for him. God created certain needs/desires that are to be fulfilled by a spouse and when they aren't it hurts. I don't believe that God usually takes that hurt away. Afterall, the hurt is there because His purpose in the marriage isn't being fulfilled. Where there is sin there is pain. Of course, God will give her strength and comfort. I'm not saying He won't but like I said He's not going to do the husband's job for him.

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Hislittleone:

Holding a cheating spouse accountable for their actions is not being judgemental. It's being loving. Afterall, what kind of love allows a person to fall away from God without doing all that's in their power to help that person come to repentance and a restored relationship with God? There are times that God works through a wife holding her husband accountable in order to move his heart to change. Sometimes a man has to hit rock bottom before he realizes the depth of his sin and what it's going to cost him. If a wife is constantly getting in God's way trying to cover her husband's sin and cushion the fall then it will take longer or never happen.

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ORIGINAL: Beth67

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Hislittleone:

Holding a cheating spouse accountable for their actions is not being judgemental. It's being loving. Afterall, what kind of love allows a person to fall away from God without doing all that's in their power to help that person come to repentance and a restored relationship with God? There are times that God works through a wife holding her husband accountable in order to move his heart to change. Sometimes a man has to hit rock bottom before he realizes the depth of his sin and what it's going to cost him. If a wife is constantly getting in God's way trying to cover her husband's sin and cushion the fall then it will take longer or never happen.

What a great post, Hislittleone! I personally enjoy reading your posts. They're full of wonderful words of advice, knowledge and encouragement. I find them very helpful. Thank you.

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She has several emotional and physical ailments, which I attribute the majority of from her continued unforgiveness and hatred for me. She still holds on to signed divorce papers she had prepared last year. I'm am confident that she is clinically depressed. She has seen her physician and they are "trying" some things to see if she can stay away from anti-depressants. She states that if she goes on anti-depressants and gains more weight or has other side-effects she will be even more angry with me, because how I have already made her feel so poorly about herself

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In all honesty it would probably be much easier to leave this situation and start moving on with life.

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She feels the entire 10 years have been a lie and she's been a fool for being with me for so long and not knowing what I was doing behind her back. FYI - I have never been physically unfaithful or spent any money on my addiction.

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I know God can restore any marriage and that is my daily prayer. I have an accountability partner in a pastor. And I have been attending Celebrate Recovery meetings at our church, which now includes a "men's purity group." My wife has been one time, and since we cannot afford additional counseling at this time, I'm hoping CR will be a good alternative.

I am not trying to beat up on my wife in this post, so I hope it doesn't sound that way. I am just trying to be as honest as I can in writing. I know I still have a long way to go and I'll never be "there." But, I am working hard and trying to do my best. I love her very much and just want to have a good relationship with her, better than it was before. Because I know I can be a better man/husband/father/Christian than before.

That is my story in a nutshell. Sorry for the rambling and the length of the post. But, I continue to look for encouragement for my marriage as well. I know that our marriage can be better than it has ever been, but my wife is very reluctant to share those beliefs. My dream is to someday be able to help other men that are struggling to get their lives set straight with God. So, I pray for all those that have posted here with similar stories.

To LilyJolene, I pray your husband becomes truly repentant and walks towards the Lord. I also pray that you will be prayful about your marriage. I hate the thought of divorce. I'm not sure if you have children, but I know in my case, I feel the kids should be raised by both parents and we have a duty to try our hardest for them and for God. One more note: our separation was truly a big kick in the behind for me to start getting right.

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ORIGINAL: LilyJolene

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I know God can restore any marriage and that is my daily prayer. I have an accountability partner in a pastor. And I have been attending Celebrate Recovery meetings at our church, which now includes a "men's purity group." My wife has been one time, and since we cannot afford additional counseling at this time, I'm hoping CR will be a good alternative.

I am not trying to beat up on my wife in this post, so I hope it doesn't sound that way. I am just trying to be as honest as I can in writing. I know I still have a long way to go and I'll never be "there." But, I am working hard and trying to do my best. I love her very much and just want to have a good relationship with her, better than it was before. Because I know I can be a better man/husband/father/Christian than before.

That is my story in a nutshell. Sorry for the rambling and the length of the post. But, I continue to look for encouragement for my marriage as well. I know that our marriage can be better than it has ever been, but my wife is very reluctant to share those beliefs. My dream is to someday be able to help other men that are struggling to get their lives set straight with God. So, I pray for all those that have posted here with similar stories.

To LilyJolene, I pray your husband becomes truly repentant and walks towards the Lord. I also pray that you will be prayful about your marriage. I hate the thought of divorce. I'm not sure if you have children, but I know in my case, I feel the kids should be raised by both parents and we have a duty to try our hardest for them and for God. One more note: our separation was truly a big kick in the behind for me to start getting right.

Hi LilyJolene,

All I can say is --->Amen!!! and WOW!!!

If only we can esteem others who have sinned against us, above the rejection and disappointment they cause to our emotions. Only God can do such a thing. It is written that is God's goodness that cause us to want Him...It is His goodness towards us that causes us to love Him enough to want to repent and aspire to ask Him to help us to be good because of our love for Him. It is difficult without the help of the Holy Spirit to keep us faithful to obey God's commands. We love Him very much, so when we sin against Him we feel shame in our souls.

You know... just the fact you husband is going back to get help and desperately trying get his addiction place under the feet of Jesus is a beginning. Whether or not you take him back, do try to show God's grace and mercy towards him. It is not easy to forgive, yet the moment we ourselves sin we expect God to forgive us and Love us as if nothing every happened. Don't let your husband leave this earth thinking you've not forgiven him... I'm sure it is difficult for him to forgive himself, after the last chance you gave him to fly right in your marriage.

I'm a woman, a wife and I understand where you're coming from. Pornography is a form of adultery... yet men fail to recognize it as so. And just because my ex-husband left me physically for another woman, does not discount the pain your heart felt when your husband left you many times for another in the backroom of his mind when glazing upon other people or remembering their image in his mind's eye. So regardless, of how our spouses have played the foolish person... because believe it or not woman are falling into these same sins as well (romance novels, soap operas and lewd movies, etc....) yes they are walking through the market place as stated in Proverbs 6 and Proverbs 9.

However, though we stand firm, we also stand with our arms wide opened with Love as the Father did the Prodigal Son when he came to his senses and repented from walking in rebellion to fulfilled his lust for sinful pleasures.

There is a time to rebuke and correct, however, when there is evidence of true repentance, this is the time for the person offended to give agape love and kindness. It is a process. But, thank God he doesn't cast us out the moment we've back slid into a stronghold. Thank God His chastisement did not killed us but coached us back into walking right with Him. Love should be tough, but it should be bending when there is evidence of repentance... evidence of true change.

Remember, unforgiveness and harshness to those who've have offended or sinned against us, can be used by satan to push them back to the world... telling them it is no use, they'll never accepted that you've changed. However, such a person must be reminded it was God they sinned against first and regardless if people do not forgive them... God has, and His Love will never forsake nor reject him or her.

Anyway, I hope all works out well for you and I do hope your husband stay free this time. Below are the verses I was speaking about. It goes for all (women and men). In today's society... all genders are affected and caught up into practicing gross immorality. If it were not for the Grace of God.... The Power of the Holy Spirit to keep us from falling... there goes all of us.

Agape,
In Christ Jesus,
~Dolli Kemp


Proverbs 6:20-35:
20 My son, obey your father's commands, and don't neglect your mother's teaching. 21 Keep their words always in your heart. Tie them around your neck. 22 Wherever you walk, their counsel can lead you. When you sleep, they will protect you. When you wake up in the morning, they will advise you. 23 For these commands and this teaching are a lamp to light the way ahead of you. The correction of discipline is the way to life. 24 These commands and this teaching will keep you from the immoral woman, from the smooth tongue of an adulterous woman. 25 Don't lust for her beauty. Don't let her coyness seduce you. 26 For a prostitute will bring you to poverty, and sleeping with another man's wife may cost you your very life. 27 Can a man scoop fire into his lap and not be burned? 28 Can he walk on hot coals and not blister his feet? 29 So it is with the man who sleeps with another man's wife. He who embraces her will not go unpunished. 30 Excuses might be found for a thief who steals because he is starving. 31 But if he is caught, he will be fined seven times as much as he stole, even if it means selling everything in his house to pay it back. 32 But the man who commits adultery is an utter fool, for he destroys his own soul. 33 Wounds and constant disgrace are his lot. His shame will never be erased. 34 For the woman's husband will be furious in his jealousy, and he will have no mercy in his day of vengeance. 35 There is no compensation or bribe that will satisfy him.

and Proverbs 9:8-18 reads 8 So don't bother rebuking mockers; they will only hate you. But the wise, when rebuked, will love you all the more. 9 Teach the wise, and they will be wiser. Teach the righteous, and they will learn more. 10 Fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom. Knowledge of the Holy One results in understanding. 11 Wisdom will multiply your days and add years to your life. 12 If you become wise, you will be the one to benefit. If you scorn wisdom, you will be the one to suffer.

13 The woman named Folly is loud and brash. She is ignorant and doesn't even know it. 14 She sits in her doorway on the heights overlooking the city. 15 She calls out to men going by who are minding their own business. 16 "Come home with me," she urges the simple. To those without good judgment, she says, 17 "Stolen water is refreshing; food eaten in secret tastes the best!" 18 But the men don't realize that her former guests are now in the grave. [/colo