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RE: The Bible for Theistic Evolutionists - 8/3/2008 11:43:24 AM
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wayward1
Posts: 231
Joined: 7/15/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wayward1
about the history of the Jews suggests that they were a society of liars, thieves, rapists, murderers and adulterers before God delivered the 10 Commandments in person to all living Jews at Mt Sinai?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
Claiming the Jews are nothing but liars, rapists, and thieves is called anti-semitism because you overlook:
A) the nature of all human beings
B) The Jews who weren't liars, rapists and thieves
I see the problem. You misunderstood, or perhaps just didn't notice the question mark. I'm told much of my writing is not very considerate of the reader, and requires multiple read throughs to comprehend. There I go again, more passive voice. The original quote is actually this:
" ... but what about the history of the Jews suggests that they were a society of liars, thieves, rapists, murderers and adulterers before God delivered the 10 Commandments in person to all living Jews at Mt Sinai?
It is a question, not a statement. I didn't think the jews were that way. I was asking what makes you think they were that way, if you believe it was the delivery of the 10 commandments that gave them the information they needed to know these behaviors were intolerable.
It is the faithful who would have us believe the Jews had no system of governing themselves prior to the delivery of the 10 commandments because it is the faithful who believe the 10 commandments are where we get our laws and some moral guidance and rules to live by. This implies that the jews had no rules to live by before they were visited by God, but it also begs the question, "then how did they survive without knowing it wasn't ok to murder and so on.?"
quote:
Gpd is showing us what happens when we all disobey God. We become liars, murderers, proud, haughty, sexually immoral and do all kinds of evil. God is also showing us what he will do to those who love evil. And it's not pretty. So if you want to ignore God like those in the OT, then you are without excuse because you've been warned that God will not tolerate sin. Sorry. 
I'm having a bit of trouble following you but I suppose you're saying that even after the jews received the old law they still refused to obey it, which does actually sound a bit like anti-semitism, but again, I might not be understanding you correctly.
quote:
So you're saying that there's no difference between dolphins and humans since our embryos look alike. Is that correct?  If so, then you prove the irrationalism of Darwinism. 
I'm saying the similarities among mammals are fascinating, even at just a first novice glance, and I'm just politely letting you know that they don't motivate me to call you names or make snide comments about your inability to recognize them. Even if it did though, I would refrain from writing it because I would consider it a violation of the terms of service of this site which forbid disruptive behavior such as yours. It would appear such behavior is tolerable under certain circumstances, but not others. I'm still trying to figure out exactly where that is written here. But anyway, I was attempting you get you to look inward and ask yourself why you might feel so inclined when a person with contradictory views shares his opinions or viewpoints in your presence. In any other circle of debate this would be indicative of a lack of confidence in one's position. I'm not saying that's the case here, but you should know that's how it looks.
< Message edited by wayward1 -- 8/4/2008 1:11:43 PM >
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RE: The Bible for Theistic Evolutionists - 8/5/2008 9:45:29 AM
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Carico
Posts: 531
Joined: 8/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wayward1
quote:
ORIGINAL: wayward1
about the history of the Jews suggests that they were a society of liars, thieves, rapists, murderers and adulterers before God delivered the 10 Commandments in person to all living Jews at Mt Sinai?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
Claiming the Jews are nothing but liars, rapists, and thieves is called anti-semitism because you overlook:
A) the nature of all human beings
B) The Jews who weren't liars, rapists and thieves
I see the problem. You misunderstood, or perhaps just didn't notice the question mark. I'm told much of my writing is not very considerate of the reader, and requires multiple read throughs to comprehend. There I go again, more passive voice. The original quote is actually this:
" ... but what about the history of the Jews suggests that they were a society of liars, thieves, rapists, murderers and adulterers before God delivered the 10 Commandments in person to all living Jews at Mt Sinai?
It is a question, not a statement. I didn't think the jews were that way. I was asking what makes you think they were that way, if you believe it was the delivery of the 10 commandments that gave them the information they needed to know these behaviors were intolerable.
It is the faithful who would have us believe the Jews had no system of governing themselves prior to the delivery of the 10 commandments because it is the faithful who believe the 10 commandments are where we get our laws and some moral guidance and rules to live by. This implies that the jews had no rules to live by before they were visited by God, but it also begs the question, "then how did they survive without knowing it wasn't ok to murder and so on.?"
quote:
Gpd is showing us what happens when we all disobey God. We become liars, murderers, proud, haughty, sexually immoral and do all kinds of evil. God is also showing us what he will do to those who love evil. And it's not pretty. So if you want to ignore God like those in the OT, then you are without excuse because you've been warned that God will not tolerate sin. Sorry.
I'm having a bit of trouble following you but I suppose you're saying that even after the jews received the old law they still refused to obey it, which does actually sound a bit like anti-semitism, but again, I might not be understanding you correctly.
quote:
So you're saying that there's no difference between dolphins and humans since our embryos look alike. Is that correct? If so, then you prove the irrationalism of Darwinism.
I'm saying the similarities among mammals are fascinating, even at just a first novice glance, and I'm just politely letting you know that they don't motivate me to call you names or make snide comments about your inability to recognize them. Even if it did though, I would refrain from writing it because I would consider it a violation of the terms of service of this site which forbid disruptive behavior such as yours. It would appear such behavior is tolerable under certain circumstances, but not others. I'm still trying to figure out exactly where that is written here. But anyway, I was attempting you get you to look inward and ask yourself why you might feel so inclined when a person with contradictory views shares his opinions or viewpoints in your presence. In any other circle of debate this would be indicative of a lack of confidence in one's position. I'm not saying that's the case here, but you should know that's how it looks.
No, actually, one who teaches children that they are no better than animals and in fact, actually are apes, reaps what he sows. Darwinism is not only a delusion, but a perversion of the worse kind.  And since reality confirms my position, and most importantly, so does God, then my confidence can't be any higher.
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RE: The Bible for Theistic Evolutionists - 8/5/2008 11:37:39 AM
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wayward1
Posts: 231
Joined: 7/15/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
quote:
ORIGINAL: wayward1
quote:
ORIGINAL: wayward1
about the history of the Jews suggests that they were a society of liars, thieves, rapists, murderers and adulterers before God delivered the 10 Commandments in person to all living Jews at Mt Sinai?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
Claiming the Jews are nothing but liars, rapists, and thieves is called anti-semitism because you overlook:
A) the nature of all human beings
B) The Jews who weren't liars, rapists and thieves
I see the problem. You misunderstood, or perhaps just didn't notice the question mark. I'm told much of my writing is not very considerate of the reader, and requires multiple read throughs to comprehend. There I go again, more passive voice. The original quote is actually this:
" ... but what about the history of the Jews suggests that they were a society of liars, thieves, rapists, murderers and adulterers before God delivered the 10 Commandments in person to all living Jews at Mt Sinai?
It is a question, not a statement. I didn't think the jews were that way. I was asking what makes you think they were that way, if you believe it was the delivery of the 10 commandments that gave them the information they needed to know these behaviors were intolerable.
It is the faithful who would have us believe the Jews had no system of governing themselves prior to the delivery of the 10 commandments because it is the faithful who believe the 10 commandments are where we get our laws and some moral guidance and rules to live by. This implies that the jews had no rules to live by before they were visited by God, but it also begs the question, "then how did they survive without knowing it wasn't ok to murder and so on.?"
quote:
Gpd is showing us what happens when we all disobey God. We become liars, murderers, proud, haughty, sexually immoral and do all kinds of evil. God is also showing us what he will do to those who love evil. And it's not pretty. So if you want to ignore God like those in the OT, then you are without excuse because you've been warned that God will not tolerate sin. Sorry.
I'm having a bit of trouble following you but I suppose you're saying that even after the jews received the old law they still refused to obey it, which does actually sound a bit like anti-semitism, but again, I might not be understanding you correctly.
quote:
So you're saying that there's no difference between dolphins and humans since our embryos look alike. Is that correct? If so, then you prove the irrationalism of Darwinism.
I'm saying the similarities among mammals are fascinating, even at just a first novice glance, and I'm just politely letting you know that they don't motivate me to call you names or make snide comments about your inability to recognize them. Even if it did though, I would refrain from writing it because I would consider it a violation of the terms of service of this site which forbid disruptive behavior such as yours. It would appear such behavior is tolerable under certain circumstances, but not others. I'm still trying to figure out exactly where that is written here. But anyway, I was attempting you get you to look inward and ask yourself why you might feel so inclined when a person with contradictory views shares his opinions or viewpoints in your presence. In any other circle of debate this would be indicative of a lack of confidence in one's position. I'm not saying that's the case here, but you should know that's how it looks.
No, actually, one who teaches children that they are no better than animals and in fact, actually are apes, reaps what he sows. Darwinism is not only a delusion,
False Teaching
quote:
but a perversion of the worse kind.
You mean "worst" kind, and this is disruptive.
quote:
And since reality confirms my position,
False teaching
quote:
and most importantly, so does God, then my confidence can't be any higher.
High degrees of confidence do not equate to high degrees of correctness.
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RE: The Bible for Theistic Evolutionists - 8/5/2008 5:23:51 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3148
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
Theistic evolution doesn't go against special creation. Is that so? You just make up your own definitions, I guess, and this makes it right. Where is the best record of "special creation" found, HHV?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: The Bible for Theistic Evolutionists - 8/5/2008 6:03:01 PM
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drj11
Posts: 632
Joined: 3/29/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
Theistic evolution doesn't go against special creation. Is that so? You just make up your own definitions, I guess, and this makes it right. Where is the best record of "special creation" found, HHV?
Nature.
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RE: The Bible for Theistic Evolutionists - 8/5/2008 10:28:39 PM
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Carico
Posts: 531
Joined: 8/19/2005
Status: offline
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Theistic evolution is an oxymoron just as claiming that Jesus is a liar and Lord at the same time. But, many people like to put their own words into the bible and claim that God said them. But they don't fool the elect any more than they fool God.
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RE: The Bible for Theistic Evolutionists - 8/5/2008 10:32:11 PM
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HHV5
Posts: 159
Joined: 7/20/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
Theistic evolution is an oxymoron just as claiming that Jesus is a liar and Lord at the same time. But, many people like to put their own words into the bible and claim that God said them. But they don't fool the elect any more than they fool God.
Are you...fourteen years old? I hope for your sake you're not over eighteen.
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RE: The Bible for Theistic Evolutionists - 8/6/2008 9:18:24 AM
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drmark
Posts: 3148
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
Where is the best record of "special creation" found, HHV? Nature. Nope. I asked for the best record, not the fullest manifestation. Unless you know someone (I do, BTW) who observed special creation, then you have no possible connection to the event, whether 6000 or 6 billion years ago. The best record is of course found in the Bible, so could you share just one verse that even remotely supports theistic evolution as God's mechanism of special creation?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: The Bible for Theistic Evolutionists - 8/6/2008 9:32:59 AM
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gluadys
Posts: 1000
Joined: 4/26/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
so could you share just one verse that even remotely supports theistic evolution as God's mechanism of special creation?
Since scripture makes no reference to any other aspect of modern science or technology (e.g. no reference to organs among musical instruments, nor to a heliocentric solar system, nor to immunization, internal combustion engines, genes, DNA, atomic theory or tectonic plate movement, galaxies, the speed of light and relativity) what is the basis of demanding that it reference evolution?
Further, given the scriptural silence about many other aspects of modern science which you nevertheless hold to be true, why interpret scriptural silence on evolution as a denial of the truth of evolution?
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RE: The Bible for Theistic Evolutionists - 8/6/2008 10:55:34 AM
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Carico
Posts: 531
Joined: 8/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gluadys
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
so could you share just one verse that even remotely supports theistic evolution as God's mechanism of special creation?
Since scripture makes no reference to any other aspect of modern science or technology (e.g. no reference to organs among musical instruments, nor to a heliocentric solar system, nor to immunization, internal combustion engines, genes, DNA, atomic theory or tectonic plate movement, galaxies, the speed of light and relativity) what is the basis of demanding that it reference evolution?
Further, given the scriptural silence about many other aspects of modern science which you nevertheless hold to be true, why interpret scriptural silence on evolution as a denial of the truth of evolution?
1 Corinthians 4:6, "Do not go beyond what is written..." So since the bible says nothing about the earth being 4.5 billion years old and Genesis 2:7 says specifically how man man was created, why do you deliberately disagree with God and add your own words to scripture when God says not to do that?
So since you claim it's demeaning to suggest that you don't understand the simple words in Genesis 2;7 as written, then I'm assuming you understand it perfectly but simply think God is wrong there.
In that case, if you repeatedly say to me; "I love my mother" And I pass around that you said; "I don't love my mother", do you think I'm accurately representing what you said? Or do you think I'm deliberately slandering you since you've repeatedly told me that you love your mother?
If it's the latter, then how do you think God feels when you deliberately misrepresent what he said about how he created man since you understand His words perfectly? Why do you think you will get away with deliberately slandering God by misrepresenting what he said about how he created man?
< Message edited by Carico -- 8/6/2008 11:07:29 AM >
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RE: The Bible for Theistic Evolutionists - 8/6/2008 11:26:29 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3966
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
quote:
Where is the best record of "special creation" found, HHV? Nature. Nope. I asked for the best record, not the fullest manifestation. Unless you know someone (I do, BTW) who observed special creation, then you have no possible connection to the event, whether 6000 or 6 billion years ago. The best record is of course found in the Bible, so could you share just one verse that even remotely supports theistic evolution as God's mechanism of special creation?
Moses (assuming he wrote/compiled Genesis) did not observe special creation. Neither did Adam.
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: The Bible for Theistic Evolutionists - 8/7/2008 12:10:21 AM
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Carico
Posts: 531
Joined: 8/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
The 7th day rest isn't about God's laziness. But if you don't believe the bible, then that's what you'll see it as. So put scripture together to see what the 7th day rest is all about and read:
Hebrews 4:1-9
Colossians 2:16-17
Dt. 15:1
"Laziness"? Where did that come from????????????????????? You left out Hebrews 4:10, LOL. You give some nice verses about the Sabbath, but fail to explain why you are not able to interpret Genesis 2:2 literally, yet complain when others don't interpret scripture literally. We're not debating the Sabbath observance, we're debating how to interpret the Creation as described in Genesis.quote:
Those of you who claim to understand the deep significance of the bible need to go beyond the dictionary and put all of scripture together, including Genesis.
You might want to try it, aslo.
This is the first time I've been asked to interpret Genesis 2:2. Genesis 2:2 is talking about the Sabbath which is Jesus Christ our Lord. The OT is a shadow of the realities of Jesus Christ as Colossians 2:16-17 explains. But you don't understand that because you have no clue what the bible means by shadow. That means that the OT is a copy, not the reality that Jesus would fulfill. We come to Jesus Christ for rest from our own work as Hebrews 4:1-9 explains. So the Sabbath is Today (notice that it's capitalized in the bible) because since Jesus died for our sins, we can now rest from our own work. But that's way too advanced for you to understand.
So until you look deeper into scripture, then you will not understand the deeper truths behind the words and what the 7th day actually means.
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RE: The Bible for Theistic Evolutionists - 8/7/2008 1:20:35 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3966
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
The 7th day rest isn't about God's laziness. But if you don't believe the bible, then that's what you'll see it as. So put scripture together to see what the 7th day rest is all about and read:
Hebrews 4:1-9
Colossians 2:16-17
Dt. 15:1
"Laziness"? Where did that come from????????????????????? You left out Hebrews 4:10, LOL. You give some nice verses about the Sabbath, but fail to explain why you are not able to interpret Genesis 2:2 literally, yet complain when others don't interpret scripture literally. We're not debating the Sabbath observance, we're debating how to interpret the Creation as described in Genesis.quote:
Those of you who claim to understand the deep significance of the bible need to go beyond the dictionary and put all of scripture together, including Genesis.
You might want to try it, aslo.
This is the first time I've been asked to interpret Genesis 2:2. Genesis 2:2 is talking about the Sabbath which is Jesus Christ our Lord. The OT is a shadow of the realities of Jesus Christ as Colossians 2:16-17 explains. But you don't understand that because you have no clue what the bible means by shadow. That means that the OT is a copy, not the reality that Jesus would fulfill. We come to Jesus Christ for rest from our own work as Hebrews 4:1-9 explains. So the Sabbath is Today (notice that it's capitalized in the bible) because since Jesus died for our sins, we can now rest from our own work. But that's way too advanced for you to understand.
So until you look deeper into scripture, then you will not understand the deeper truths behind the words and what the 7th day actually means.
Ahhhh....... so the OT is metaphorical. OK. 
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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