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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/21/2008 12:44:02 PM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 278
Joined: 1/18/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: its_GO_time
quote:
There may be a great sweeping change in our government coming;
We can always hope. It's past due, the last 8 years have been misery for a whole lot of us....say, about 51% of the electorate? LOL.
The last 2 have been run by the opposition party. Is there a third party taking over?
My point in starting this thread was that America has NOT been governed by the Democratic party exclusively for quite some time; But it appears it will be soon and the Republican party is demoralized because of it's (seemingly) inevitability.
Current makeup of Congress -
House of Representatives - 435 members, Democratic Party 236, Republican Party 199
Senate - 100 members, Democratic Party 49, Republican Party 49, Independent 2
The reasons Democrats don't completely control Congress (yet)
#1 The Rules of the House of Representitives -
> Upon approval of two-thirds of the elected members by a roll call vote a bill will be accepted by the body and assigned by the Speaker to the appropriate committee.
> No bill will be accepted for consideration except by consent of two-thirds of the house membership after twelve o'clock noon of the third legislative day of the session.
> No bill shall be considered for introduction after six o'clock p.m. (6:00 p.m.) the fifth legislative day of the session except by consent of two-thirds of the membership.
#2 The Constitution requires a two-thirds vote of both the House and Senate to override a veto.
#3 Need at least 60 Democratic Senators - If the Democrats had 60 votes, they'd have a chance of enacting Obama proposals; The power of the filibuster, unique to the Senate, allows the minority to block anything they don't like as long as they have 41 or more votes.
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/21/2008 1:21:18 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7167
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: online
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quote:
But it would appear most Americans are tired of right-wing lunatics!
Actually, I would say that the fact that Obama has had to move right (or tried to appear to) on abortion, the death penalty, FISA, religious issues, and 2nd amendment rights would seem to indicate that certain 'right wing' values have become incorporated into the American character, and what Americans are tired of is Republicans that say they are conservatives but fail to lead like them.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/21/2008 1:49:20 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 640
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
But it would appear most Americans are tired of right-wing lunatics!
Actually, I would say that the fact that Obama has had to move right (or tried to appear to) on abortion, the death penalty, FISA, religious issues, and 2nd amendment rights would seem to indicate that certain 'right wing' values have become incorporated into the American character, and what Americans are tired of is Republicans that say they are conservatives but fail to lead like them.
Exactly right!
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/21/2008 3:29:51 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1646
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Tax increases have historically suppressed businesses and caused them to move where there is less of a tax load.
There is no reason to think that things would be any different not.
So you are claiming that if tax rates were decreased to zero percent, tax revenues would increase.
Apparently, using the magic wand that Bush can wave to make Iraq a paradise, 0% of 14 Trillion is greater than 3 Trillion.
quote:
Tax decreases have historically increased the over all tax intake for the government because it stimulates and increases business. Sort of a reverse wal-mart police; less tax on much more business activity outdoes more trax on much less business activity. More jobs, more income, more products made, more supplies bought, etc.
Well, it really generally stimulates capital gain recognitions. People tend to be worried that tax rates will go back up, so they sell their stock and recognize capital gains.
An increase in the highest tax rate from 35% to 40% may decrease economic activity by 1% or 2%, but 98% of 40% is still a lot more than 100% of 35%. Higher tax rates- combined with lower spending- will also be a great way to keep inflation under control and prop up the dollar.
Every $1 Trillion we owe in debt translates into about $40-$50 billion/year in interest payments. Today, that's $350 Billion/year. However, if the Fed decides to get rates up to 8%, we're looking at $700 Billion/year in interest payments flowing out of the country- and that's assuming we stop increasing the debt today.
As much as high taxes will hurt the economy, bankruptcy will hurt it even more. Don't believe me? Take a look at what happened to Russia.
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/21/2008 6:18:57 PM
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its_GO_time
Posts: 183
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
quote:
I personally like a balanced government. I would like to believe that the last 30 years of Conservatism has pushed the Democratic Party more toward the political center. It would be a welcome relief to be moderate again.
Give me a break, today's Donks would portray JFK as a far-right lunatic. The Democratic Party has slid almost lock, stock, and barrel into European socialism. I doubt even LBJ would believe how left it is, and that's saying something.
It is a party, now driven by the likes of George Soros, and Michael Moore, and not by the love of country. Imagine a Democrat saying this on immigration, today;
"People who should get in, get in; people who should not enter are kept out; and people who are deportable should be required to leave"
Rep. Barbara Jordan(D-Texas)
I am praying for a political Josiah(see 2Ki 22), to find, not the books of the Law, but to find the Constitution of the U.S.
_____________________________
"optimism without reality isn’t eloquence. It’s just Disney.” —(New York Times columnist) David Brooks(on Obama)
Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master - Sallust
<< HOF'er LeRoy Kelly
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/21/2008 6:29:26 PM
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its_GO_time
Posts: 183
Status: offline
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The Republicrats, however,are driven, by a bunch of cross-dressing-as liberals- open- borders-globalists, who think the U.S. is some corporation, to buy up and liquidate, lest you think I'm in the tank for Yawn McCain.
_____________________________
"optimism without reality isn’t eloquence. It’s just Disney.” —(New York Times columnist) David Brooks(on Obama)
Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master - Sallust
<< HOF'er LeRoy Kelly
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/21/2008 9:18:01 PM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 278
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
But it would appear most Americans are tired of right-wing lunatics!
Actually, I would say that the fact that Obama has had to move right (or tried to appear to) on abortion, the death penalty, FISA, religious issues, and 2nd amendment rights would seem to indicate that certain 'right wing' values have become incorporated into the American character, and what Americans are tired of is Republicans that say they are conservatives but fail to lead like them.
Exactly right!
I would submit "right-wing" values in moderation. But even that is highly disputed!
Examples -
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
People only come to the center to get elected... There is nothing moderate about the Democratic Party whem you consider the leadership...
quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
Give me a break, today's Donks would portray JFK as a far-right lunatic. The Democratic Party has slid almost lock, stock, and barrel into European socialism. I doubt even LBJ would believe how left it is, and that's saying something.
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
tax rates will be at 90%, all abortions will be paid for and celebrated by the government, male/female marriage will be outlawed as racist, gas will be 12 dollars a gallon, inflation will be at 20+%, tort lawers will be given special govenmental status and protection, and the terrorist will be pouring into the USA and we will have war in the homeland.
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/21/2008 9:27:01 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7167
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: online
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quote:
I would submit "right-wing" values in moderation. But even that is highly disputed!
I am not sure how that changes what I said.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/22/2008 7:48:10 AM
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rlj
Posts: 1817
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
what Americans are tired of is Republicans that say they are conservatives but fail to lead like them.
Keep my seat warm just in case one day the Republicans wake up and smell the coffee and do like they say they want to. If this actually happens I will probably want that seat back one day.
_____________________________
-Roger
1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/22/2008 9:43:17 AM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 278
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
I would submit "right-wing" values in moderation. But even that is highly disputed!
I am not sure how that changes what I said.
Moderation as opposed to Conservatism - quote:
certain 'right wing' values have become incorporated into the American character, and what Americans are tired of is Republicans that say they are conservatives but fail to lead like them
I would disagree about the American character being conservative, except in moderation;
As noted by the rather angry feelings some Conservatives have toward the Democratic party - Even rather conservative Democrats are not conservative enough! (because they're Democrats?)
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/22/2008 10:21:25 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7167
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: online
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quote:
I would disagree about the American character being conservative, except in moderation;
As noted by the rather angry feelings some Conservatives have toward the Democratic party - Even rather conservative Democrats are not conservative enough! (because they're Democrats?)
Moderation is a relative term - the American character is sufficiently conservative that the most liberal nominee for President ever has to do about face on several issues in order to be viable.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/22/2008 10:26:36 AM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 278
Joined: 1/18/2008
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Another article about the Republican Party's troubles this morning on MSNBC -
"Young Republicans, blue about prospects ahead"
Gen-Nexters are feeling left out of the party
This was an interesting bit for me -
quote:
(At the) first Republican presidential debate of the 2008 campaign, held at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in California; it was a veritable Reagan love-fest, with each contender claiming to be more like the conservative icon than his opponents.
"You don't hear Barack Obama going around saying, 'I'm John F. Kennedy.' He's saying, 'I'm Barack Obama." "There's a reason for that. He's inspiring an entire generation"
It seems to be the messengers as much as the message that is causing the Republican Party's problems.
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/22/2008 7:38:32 PM
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Lizahana
Posts: 865
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
But it would appear most Americans are tired of right-wing lunatics!
Actually, I would say that the fact that Obama has had to move right (or tried to appear to) on abortion, the death penalty, FISA, religious issues, and 2nd amendment rights would seem to indicate that certain 'right wing' values have become incorporated into the American character, and what Americans are tired of is Republicans that say they are conservatives but fail to lead like them.
McCain has also come closer to center by pitching environmental causes. Even late night hosts have picked up on this as well as Obama's stretch to be more center & this has been the topic of jokes.
But I don't think this is going to matter at all. Just as the 2006 midterm elections were a referendum on the war; this election will be a referendum on the economy - which one could argue is largely due to money going out of our economy overseas to Iraq.
Peace and God bless,
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/22/2008 11:31:51 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7167
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: online
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quote:
McCain has also come closer to center by pitching environmental causes. Even late night hosts have picked up on this as well as Obama's stretch to be more center & this has been the topic of jokes.
But I don't think this is going to matter at all. Just as the 2006 midterm elections were a referendum on the war; this election will be a referendum on the economy - which one could argue is largely due to money going out of our economy overseas to Iraq.
Actually, McCain has always been more moderate on environmental issues - he came right as well.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/23/2008 7:29:11 AM
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Lizahana
Posts: 865
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
McCain has also come closer to center by pitching environmental causes. Even late night hosts have picked up on this as well as Obama's stretch to be more center & this has been the topic of jokes.
But I don't think this is going to matter at all. Just as the 2006 midterm elections were a referendum on the war; this election will be a referendum on the economy - which one could argue is largely due to money going out of our economy overseas to Iraq.
Actually, McCain has always been more moderate on environmental issues - he came right as well.
True - though he will not sign Kyoto - instead, co-sponsoring a more watered down version of it. However, the fact that he's highlighting his environmental stance in his campaign ads is what surprises me. If I were him, I'd be catering to my base, not the moderates. Even on this pro-Republican website, there are a fair amount that do not like him because they feel he is too moderate.
Peace and God bless,
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/24/2008 1:05:30 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
McCain has also come closer to center by pitching environmental causes. Even late night hosts have picked up on this as well as Obama's stretch to be more center & this has been the topic of jokes.
But I don't think this is going to matter at all. Just as the 2006 midterm elections were a referendum on the war; this election will be a referendum on the economy - which one could argue is largely due to money going out of our economy overseas to Iraq.
Actually, McCain has always been more moderate on environmental issues - he came right as well.
True - though he will not sign Kyoto - instead, co-sponsoring a more watered down version of it. However, the fact that he's highlighting his environmental stance in his campaign ads is what surprises me. If I were him, I'd be catering to my base, not the moderates. Even on this pro-Republican website, there are a fair amount that do not like him because they feel he is too moderate.
His base isn't going to vote for a ungodly socialist like Obama... Both McCain and Obama are pandering to the middle....
John
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/24/2008 7:37:32 AM
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Lizahana
Posts: 865
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
McCain has also come closer to center by pitching environmental causes. Even late night hosts have picked up on this as well as Obama's stretch to be more center & this has been the topic of jokes.
But I don't think this is going to matter at all. Just as the 2006 midterm elections were a referendum on the war; this election will be a referendum on the economy - which one could argue is largely due to money going out of our economy overseas to Iraq.
Actually, McCain has always been more moderate on environmental issues - he came right as well.
True - though he will not sign Kyoto - instead, co-sponsoring a more watered down version of it. However, the fact that he's highlighting his environmental stance in his campaign ads is what surprises me. If I were him, I'd be catering to my base, not the moderates. Even on this pro-Republican website, there are a fair amount that do not like him because they feel he is too moderate.
His base isn't going to vote for a ungodly socialist like Obama... Both McCain and Obama are pandering to the middle....
John
I think it goes without saying that McCain's base will not vote for Obama. I was alluding to Bob Barr - and how McCain's base may throw some votes his way. I think McCain should be catering to his base, and not the middle - I think it's a huge mistake on his part.
Although Nader is running - I think too many are still angry at him that I don't think he'll get near what he did in '04.
And I forgot, does anyone know if Ron Paul is still running? I could not locate a concrete answer on my google search.
Peace and God bless,
< Message edited by Lizahana -- 7/24/2008 7:43:38 AM >
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/24/2008 9:44:28 AM
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its_GO_time
Posts: 183
Status: offline
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quote:
True - though he will not sign Kyoto
That alone, is points for McCain, in my book. Nothing like having the U.N. regulating American businesses, looking for violations-real,and imagined, to further cripple our economy, and completley sell our soveringnity down the river. China wouldn't go for it either, till they were given an exemption. Here's what Jefferson probably would have thought of Kyoto;
"Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none."
Also, Ron Paul has suspended his campaign.
_____________________________
"optimism without reality isn’t eloquence. It’s just Disney.” —(New York Times columnist) David Brooks(on Obama)
Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master - Sallust
<< HOF'er LeRoy Kelly
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/24/2008 2:07:19 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
McCain has also come closer to center by pitching environmental causes. Even late night hosts have picked up on this as well as Obama's stretch to be more center & this has been the topic of jokes.
But I don't think this is going to matter at all. Just as the 2006 midterm elections were a referendum on the war; this election will be a referendum on the economy - which one could argue is largely due to money going out of our economy overseas to Iraq.
Actually, McCain has always been more moderate on environmental issues - he came right as well.
True - though he will not sign Kyoto - instead, co-sponsoring a more watered down version of it. However, the fact that he's highlighting his environmental stance in his campaign ads is what surprises me. If I were him, I'd be catering to my base, not the moderates. Even on this pro-Republican website, there are a fair amount that do not like him because they feel he is too moderate.
His base isn't going to vote for a ungodly socialist like Obama... Both McCain and Obama are pandering to the middle....
John
I think it goes without saying that McCain's base will not vote for Obama. I was alluding to Bob Barr - and how McCain's base may throw some votes his way. I think McCain should be catering to his base, and not the middle - I think it's a huge mistake on his part.
Of course you do, since you are leaning towards the ungodly socialist, Obama...
John
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/24/2008 8:06:32 PM
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Lizahana
Posts: 865
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: its_GO_time
quote:
True - though he will not sign Kyoto
That alone, is points for McCain, in my book. Nothing like having the U.N. regulating American businesses, looking for violations-real,and imagined, to further cripple our economy, and completley sell our soveringnity down the river. China wouldn't go for it either, till they were given an exemption. Here's what Jefferson probably would have thought of Kyoto;
"Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none."
Also, Ron Paul has suspended his campaign.
Well, let's agree to disagree.
And thanks for the info on Ron Paul.
Peace and God bless,
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/24/2008 8:08:25 PM
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Lizahana
Posts: 865
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
McCain has also come closer to center by pitching environmental causes. Even late night hosts have picked up on this as well as Obama's stretch to be more center & this has been the topic of jokes.
But I don't think this is going to matter at all. Just as the 2006 midterm elections were a referendum on the war; this election will be a referendum on the economy - which one could argue is largely due to money going out of our economy overseas to Iraq.
Actually, McCain has always been more moderate on environmental issues - he came right as well.
True - though he will not sign Kyoto - instead, co-sponsoring a more watered down version of it. However, the fact that he's highlighting his environmental stance in his campaign ads is what surprises me. If I were him, I'd be catering to my base, not the moderates. Even on this pro-Republican website, there are a fair amount that do not like him because they feel he is too moderate.
His base isn't going to vote for a ungodly socialist like Obama... Both McCain and Obama are pandering to the middle....
John
I think it goes without saying that McCain's base will not vote for Obama. I was alluding to Bob Barr - and how McCain's base may throw some votes his way. I think McCain should be catering to his base, and not the middle - I think it's a huge mistake on his part.
Of course you do, since you are leaning towards the ungodly socialist, Obama...
John
LOL! All I said is I think McCain should be catering to his base. I'm not sure how you draw conclusions...anyway...have a lovely evening, John! I mean, try to , John, really try!
Peace and God bless,
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/24/2008 8:17:59 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
McCain has also come closer to center by pitching environmental causes. Even late night hosts have picked up on this as well as Obama's stretch to be more center & this has been the topic of jokes.
But I don't think this is going to matter at all. Just as the 2006 midterm elections were a referendum on the war; this election will be a referendum on the economy - which one could argue is largely due to money going out of our economy overseas to Iraq.
Actually, McCain has always been more moderate on environmental issues - he came right as well.
True - though he will not sign Kyoto - instead, co-sponsoring a more watered down version of it. However, the fact that he's highlighting his environmental stance in his campaign ads is what surprises me. If I were him, I'd be catering to my base, not the moderates. Even on this pro-Republican website, there are a fair amount that do not like him because they feel he is too moderate.
His base isn't going to vote for a ungodly socialist like Obama... Both McCain and Obama are pandering to the middle....
John
I think it goes without saying that McCain's base will not vote for Obama. I was alluding to Bob Barr - and how McCain's base may throw some votes his way. I think McCain should be catering to his base, and not the middle - I think it's a huge mistake on his part.
Of course you do, since you are leaning towards the ungodly socialist, Obama...
John
LOL! All I said is I think McCain should be catering to his base. I'm not sure how you draw conclusions...anyway...have a lovely evening, John! I mean, try to , John, really try!
You have said in the past you are leaning towards Obama and you as well post an argument that states both sides are for abortion so what does it matter, and you speak of the environment frequently... Hmmmm.... What a cloudy picture that is...  And now you want one of the candidates to ignore the very group that tends to elect the president? I have a great evening, laughing all the way through it...
John
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RE: Republican enthusiasm has plummeted - 7/24/2008 8:24:44 PM
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Lizahana
Posts: 865
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
McCain has also come closer to center by pitching environmental causes. Even late night hosts have picked up on this as well as Obama's stretch to be more center & this has been the topic of jokes.
But I don't think this is going to matter at all. Just as the 2006 midterm elections were a referendum on the war; this election will be a referendum on the economy - which one could argue is largely due to money going out of our economy overseas to Iraq.
Actually, McCain has always been more moderate on environmental issues - he came right as well.
True - though he will not sign Kyoto - instead, co-sponsoring a more watered down version of it. However, the fact that he's highlighting his environmental stance in his campaign ads is what surprises me. If I were him, I'd be catering to my base, not the moderates. Even on this pro-Republican website, there are a fair amount that do not like him because they feel he is too moderate.
His base isn't going to vote for a ungodly socialist like Obama... Both McCain and Obama are pandering to the middle....
John
I think it goes without saying that McCain's base will not vote for Obama. I was alluding to Bob Barr - and how McCain's base may throw some votes his way. I think McCain should be catering to his base, and not the middle - I think it's a huge mistake on his part.
Of course you do, since you are leaning towards the ungodly socialist, Obama...
John
LOL! All I said is I think McCain should be catering to his base. I'm not sure how you draw conclusions...anyway...have a lovely evening, John! I mean, try to , John, really try!
You have said in the past you are leaning towards Obama and you as well post an argument that states both sides are for abortion so what does it matter, and you speak of the environment frequently... Hmmmm.... What a cloudy picture that is... And now you want one of the candidates to ignore the very group that tends to elect the president? I have a great evening, laughing all the way through it...
John
But, John, I have also noted that McCain is not all that bad on the environment. You know, I could give you a daily update on my flip-flopping from one candidate to the other - would you like that? That way, you wouldn't be putting words into my mouth - come on John, it's a win, win situation!) 
Peace and God bless,
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