self-defense in public schools? (Full Version)

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Knolt -> self-defense in public schools? (7/18/2008 6:22:57 PM)

Are you for self-defense in public schools? For instance, a boy gets suspended or expelled from school for defending himself with the use of force against a bully/aggressor. is that fair? why is it like that?



Jenny-Fair -> RE: self-defense in public schools? (7/18/2008 6:38:02 PM)

My kids aren't in PS, but they ARE in Jukido Jujitsu class, and I cannot tell you how many times the Sensei has said, 'and you do it THIS way because then you can't be blamed for the incident.' Basically, the kids are taught how to remove themselves from the attacker's grasp, protect themselves from blows, and lay the attacker on the ground so that they can get away.

My youngest sister IS in PS, and I have tried and tried to get her to come to class, because I think every 13 yo girl should have some self defense skills. But I can tell you that if someone attacked her, and she broke his or her nose in an attempt to protect herself, and got suspended, I'd be taking her to Dairy Queen on her day off.



stellaluna -> RE: self-defense in public schools? (7/18/2008 7:36:31 PM)

It's a stupid policy, but it's mostly based on what the adults actually observe. Usually by the time an adult arrives on the scene, the bully has stopped bullying and the victim is attempting to defend himself or herself. Any "no tolerance" policy will lead to the suspension of the kid the adult actually observes fighting, i.e. the victim. Still, I would tell my kid definitely to defend, no matter what the consequences. Martial arts are a really good way to teach kids to do that. I would also report any bullying, though, before it escalates into something physical...so that administration would be aware of a potential problem and hopefully be on the lookout for just such a situation.



MrsTracy72 -> RE: self-defense in public schools? (7/18/2008 11:43:51 PM)

My son had problems with a bully at a private school and when I brought it to the teacher, nothing was done. I brought it to her several times and then from there to the principal, and from the principal to the pastor. Nobody did anything and so finally I told my son next time, if he was in a position he shouldn't be in to just hit back.

I hated doing that because I don't want my kids growing up thinking that hitting someone is the only way out, but the school did NOTHING. Finally, I told the teacher that next time this happened, since neither she nor the school was even trying to do anything that I told my son to fight back and that I was going to press assult charges with the police dept. The answer I got to that one was "You can't just call the police"

So then, I went back to the principal and told him the same thing and that if my son was suspended for his defensive actions should he need to take them, that I would sue them. It still didn't stop until the boys eventually worked out their differences.
He did get in a situation where he was held up against a locker by that boy and another so he did hit one of them. He came out and I was there waiting to pick him up. He did tell me right away and since it was during basketball practice, I had him go up to the coach and tell him what happened and what he did. The coach was aware of the issues too. The coach was good about it and pulled the one boy from a tournament and my son who was not supposed to go to that tournament went in his place. That was the most anybody did about this in that school.

In the end, we left the school anyway and are happy with our choices.



artemis -> RE: self-defense in public schools? (7/19/2008 8:54:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knolt

Are you for self-defense in public schools? For instance, a boy gets suspended or expelled from school for defending himself with the use of force against a bully/aggressor. is that fair? why is it like that?


Bullying is extremely hard to catch/prove, especially if it is non-physical, so it doesn't get dealt with nearly as often as it happens. It's a lot easier to tell that a kid hit another kid than it is to tell that he verbally harrassed him. And one form of bullying is to blame another kid for things he/she didn't do, so even when a student tries to tell the teachers/principals/etc., it's hard to know if the student is being bullied or being a bully. That doesn't make it right, but that's how it is.



Anrik -> RE: self-defense in public schools? (7/19/2008 11:05:26 AM)

Public school has such type situation. It is a good policy. The step-by-step seminar policy guides the trainer through each lesson, and includes conversation questions, student taking part and role-playing.
________________________________________________
anrik
Addiction Recovery New Mexico



blueshadow -> RE: self-defense in public schools? (7/19/2008 2:44:17 PM)

I had one friend who was in a fight, because he defended himself against the person who attacked him. He told me that both of them were suspended because the aggressor was black and the school didn't want to look racist.

I had another friend who ended up switching middle schools to get away from someone who would not stop bullying her. She was not the aggressor.

Personally, I never had to physically defend myself (thank God). If I had had to and been suspended, though, my parents would definitely have supported me - and probably raised h*** with the principal and the president of the school board while doing it.



SteveSund -> RE: self-defense in public schools? (7/19/2008 6:11:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knolt

Are you for self-defense in public schools? For instance, a boy gets suspended or expelled from school for defending himself with the use of force against a bully/aggressor. is that fair? why is it like that?


You are lumping all public schools together. There are state laws and it is up to individual districts to develop procedures to deal with physical altercations. Some are better than others. I have been involved with several districts on a contractual basis and my child goes to public school. Of the ones I am familiar with, all have policies in place where a child that uses legitimate self-defense in response to an aggressor will NOT be punished.

The problem occurs when there are few witnesses and different accounts. In some cases, the victim provoked the attacker or they have a history of fighting. Then it can be hard to craft a solutions.

Personally, I have taught my daughter to stand up for herself and that she needs to defend herself against a bully or another person that constitutes an imminent threat. I have also told her that if she is in the right I will go to bat for her.



Kath -> RE: self-defense in public schools? (7/20/2008 3:56:17 PM)

moving from PPS to Parenting



DaveW -> RE: self-defense in public schools? (7/21/2008 12:07:52 PM)

Back in the 60s I was constantly harrassed by bullies in grade school. I never defended myself, not even so much as to raise my arms to block the blows to the face. I had busted lips and black eyes constantly. I also got in trouble for fighting a lot. I asked the principle why on occasion to which he replied "You say he hit you. That means you were involved."



shadowspring -> RE: self-defense in public schools? (7/21/2008 3:00:56 PM)

My teen friends claim that in our district, all parties involved in aggression will be punished.

The only way you could not be punished is if you let bullies hit you and you just take it. In most cases that is dangerous and social suicide as well.

I say seek peace if at all possible, and if that fails, protect yourself. Your safety is more important than "the rules".

Now if it's just a matter of saving face in front of all your friends, keep your hands to yourself.



Knolt -> RE: self-defense in public schools? (7/21/2008 8:34:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: shadowspring



Now if it's just a matter of saving face in front of all your friends, keep your hands to yourself.

Please explain. I don't quite follow you. I don't quite know what you mean by this.



shadowspring -> RE: self-defense in public schools? (7/22/2008 9:16:32 AM)

What I mean is if someone is only verbally abusing you, violence is not called for to "defend yourself". You do not need to "defend yourself" in that situation. If someone pushes you in the hallway, you do not need to "defend yourself". Also if the altercation begins in a place you can reasonably expect the administration to come to your aid, like in front of the office, you do not need to "defend yourself".

But if you are threatened with real physical harm, and there is no reason to believe anyone in authority will intervene (you are on your way home from the bus stop, or jacked up in the locker room after everyone else is gone) and a physical altercation is imminent then DEFEND yourself!



stellaluna -> RE: self-defense in public schools? (7/22/2008 10:42:53 AM)

I agree with shadowspring.

I think sometimes kids are singled out to be bullied because they don't appear to be able to defend themselves. I know lots of parents who teach their kids to never fight, but I think it's best to teach a child to fight if they have to...along with times and reasons to fight, like shadowspring was talking about.



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