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RE: Drug use, a spiritual experience?!?! - 7/16/2008 4:59:56 PM
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Apparition
Posts: 27
Joined: 4/14/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
quote:
ORIGINAL: Apparition
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ORIGINAL: McFatty
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ORIGINAL: Apparition
We live in a land where laws can be challenged, and one is innocent until proven guilty by a court of law.
The Constitution is also the law of the land (I wish the individuals in office would recognize this fact.. but I digress..)
The Constitution says anything that isn't directly mentioned is given to the states to decide.
One is PRESUMED innocent until proven guilty. It doesn't mean they ARE innocent.
Sure laws can be challenged, but until they're changed, they're still the laws.
And yet laws can still be challenged.
Okay. We have established this. What is your point?
That true authority governing any particular law not mandated implicitly or explicitly by the Constitution comes from the people, and more specifically the jury in charge of hearing the given case who are given the right to not only judge law as it is given, but whether the law is an acceptable one. See jury nullification. But with that said, I think we get off topic and the fact that it is against the law currently does present a challenge to my views, but not one I had already considered. =)
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RE: Drug use, a spiritual experience?!?! - 7/16/2008 5:50:51 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
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Fair enough. I've taken a few Poli Sci and Criminal Justice classes in my day, so I understand how the system for changing laws works (or is supposed to work).
But yeah, I guess the whole point was what the current law is.
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Drug use, a spiritual experience?!?! - 7/17/2008 11:04:00 PM
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HisFish
Posts: 537
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
Drug use, in most cases, is probably not the right thing to do.
I refuse to judge a man I simply see using drugs, though. It's very possible to relieve medical conditions with drugs which have a bad stigma. Drugs are not necessarily the right way to go about it, but judging someone off the bat isn't the way to go about it either.
Yeah, that's the trouble with the church today, most don't judge sin. Oh no!...heaven forbid they might offend someone. 
That's why we have all these threads with Christians not knowing it is a sin to fornicate with their boy/girlfriend, do drugs, practice homosexuality, get divorced, etc., etc., etc.
It's a cinch this guy isn't smoking dope because he has cancer and other than that, everyone I ever knew who smoked it (myself included), smoked it for one reason...to get HIGH!
11"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. -Ephesians 5:11
"1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? 2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? 4 If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? 5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren?" I Corinthians 6
Amen Kat_D. You know, it's ok for a christian to actually say "this isnt right", where does all of this moral relativism come from?, it certainly isnt biblical.
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: Drug use, a spiritual experience?!?! - 7/17/2008 11:17:59 PM
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HisFish
Posts: 537
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
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quote:
also do not believe any of the passages mentioned here apply to marijuana or mushrooms, and I will also say that I believe they can get us in a frame of mind to be more open to hearing God's voice, especially when taken with the right frame of mind (which is obviously not of that to 'party', or just for the sake of tripping)
Your fooling yourself. I've inhaled, snorted, dropped and booted everything known to man and none of that brought me any closer to God, quite the opposite, and i detest this kind of stoner theology which is nothing more than a reason to keep on getting stoned.
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: Drug use, a spiritual experience?!?! - 7/17/2008 11:59:59 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2310
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
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quote:
ORIGINAL: slimon11
I will go here, as I did join this forum to anonymously ask questions...
I live close to a reservation and I was recently talking to a Native American Christian, a Bible reading, Jesus loving, spiritual leader in his community. Certain drugs are not illegal on the reservation including marijuana and other psychoactive plants. He explained that some of these plants are used on certain occasions.
“used it to facilitate visionary states of consciousness during spiritual healing sessions.”
He used Genesis 1:11-12 to say that these psychoactive plants are a gift.
11 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
What do you guys have to say about that?
I think some drugs that are currently illegal can be legalized. I also think many drugs can be used responsibly, but many times they aren't...even many of those that are considered inherently evil by many.
The first thing that came to mind (doesn't have a lot to do with the thread other than the fact that it involved drugs) was the Taq/PCR (polymerase chain reaction) we use so much today... for crimes and general DNA replication in the lab...it's founder who won the Nobel Prize for it said that had he not been on LSD so much then, PCR might not be here or have been here later, etc. Apparently many took it then there... but I can't say I doubt it. I know there are plenty of science students who take illegal drugs to do well or stay awake, etc. nowadays.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
"Sometimes I Wonder Why" (Blog entry)
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RE: Drug use, a spiritual experience?!?! - 7/18/2008 12:58:19 AM
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theothergabriel
Posts: 5
Joined: 7/17/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: slimon11
Certain drugs are not illegal on the reservation including marijuana and other psychoactive plants. He explained that some of these plants are used on certain occasions.
Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 10:23 "All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify."
Even if something is legal, it doesn't mean that it is good for you. It is legal to smoke cigarettes, but I think most people would agree that it is harmful to your body.
Psychoactive drugs have the potential to open you up to the spiritual realm. Unfortunately, once the door is opened, you have no power to shut it. Smoking marijuana seems relatively harmless, but many of us have seen the harmful effects that long-term use has on a person's mind, body, and eventually, their spirit. Hallucinogens, however, are much more dangerous...at least on a spiritual level. Once you eat psychoactive mushrooms or peyote, you are "in it for the long haul". You have no way of controlling what your mind does while you are under the effects of the drug, and now that you are more "spiritually open", you are more susceptible to the spiritual realm too. I've only heard of a couple accounts of the Holy Spirit showing up during a "trip" (and only to tell the user to stop using), but I have heard of many people who were tormented by demons. I'm not saying that these were actual encounters or not, but I'd rather not risk the chance for a few hours of escape.
In regards to the later posts that speak of legality issues...
In Romans 13, "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God."
I doubt many of you live on reservations, and by law are not permitted to use drugs. As far as "challenging the law" goes, I think that we are allowed to verbally challenge the law, and petition for change, but breaking the rules so that they can be fixed was not the idea.
_____________________________
See what I'm saying at: http://theothergabriel.wordpress.com
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RE: Drug use, a spiritual experience?!?! - 7/19/2008 12:16:58 AM
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Apparition
Posts: 27
Joined: 4/14/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisFish
quote:
also do not believe any of the passages mentioned here apply to marijuana or mushrooms, and I will also say that I believe they can get us in a frame of mind to be more open to hearing God's voice, especially when taken with the right frame of mind (which is obviously not of that to 'party', or just for the sake of tripping)
Your fooling yourself. I've inhaled, snorted, dropped and booted everything known to man and none of that brought me any closer to God, quite the opposite, and i detest this kind of stoner theology which is nothing more than a reason to keep on getting stoned.
What might be wrong for you to eat may not be wrong for others to eat.
Who are you to judge? Should you look down and condemn another?
Just a thought.
It's not just stoner theology, considering I haven't smoked or tripped in a long time now because I've gotten what I've needed from it, but the point remains.
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