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RE: Community Service Required for Graduation? - 7/9/2008 7:09:40 PM
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frazzledmom
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Same song, second verse.....
Any posters from Europe? Specifically Germany?
If I remember right, a foreign exchange student from Germany told me that graduates there had a choice between two years of civil service or two years of military service. Mandated service. Guaranteed army, too. There are advantages to the idea but it is certainly not "voluntary".
Correct me if I'm wrong-it's been awhile.
Frazzledmom
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RE: Community Service Required for Graduation? - 7/9/2008 7:21:17 PM
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garsyt
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Here at the middle school level kids are required to do 20 hours of community service or and approved service project (approved by our guidance/skills teaching staff with parental input and written okay) in 8th grade. My ds easily did his by volunteering 2 hours a week with his brother's cub scout pack as a den chief. Other students did book drives, school supply drives, candy striping at a nearby hospital or nursing home, and working in our schools environmental center or greenhouse cleaning up, or in service to churches, non-profits, etc. Community service is encouraged BIG time even throughout the summer months. And there are PLENTY of opportunities! Quite honestly it wouldn't hurt whole families to get involved in someway and offer some of their time and energy volunteering. Sure middle schoolers need to be transported places - But many are willing to transport to sports practices, or take kids to friends homes or other events - would it really hurt to do it for something that would benefit someone else. Now it's not required for 8th grade graduation but it does affect your skills class grade.
I do have a problem with programs that TELL a child what they can do and what they can't do. In talking to the skills teacher about this last fall, I remember her saying that as long as the service project makes sense, involves actual work by the student and is ok'd by the students parents - they've never had to say no to any students service hours or project.
I know the elementary school urges volunteerism and it's quite easily achieved. My dd's 4th grade class volunteered with my other dd's 1st grade class helping the 1st graders with reading, spelling and learning math facts. My own 4th grader, as a portion of a girl scout badge, volunteered one recess a week to help with a variety of 2nd graders brush up their reading skills! The school's student council organized food drives, school supply drives, coats for kids campaigns and a variety of benefits to help out various non-profits and special people associated with our school, like our art teacher and her daughter who is fighting her 2nd battle with breast cancer and is only 22 years old.
My kids are required to do community service/volunteer hours- by ME, regardless of what the schools require. They will do something for someone else to the best of their ability. Just today I took my 3 younger ones to the local gardens of our counties extension offices and we spent 30 minutes helping the master gardeners clean up limbs that had fallen during a recent storm and put down new mulch in a couple areas. Then we spent 2 hours just exploring 2 acres of gorgeousness!
100 hours for college students isn't a lot over a years time. Many spend more hours playing video games or just loafing about! That's less then 2 hours a week. And from what I read it wasn't a requirement but kids were offered an incentive to do so. IF it does come to pass I sure hope my children take advantage of it! I'm certain that they will tho- because it's always been expected of them.
Blessings,
Garsy
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RE: Community Service Required for Graduation? - 7/9/2008 7:38:46 PM
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zoebob
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The Christian School I work at just started requireing this, this coming year. Basically, they will require an average of 10 hrs a year through high school. You cannot do it by doing things that you would normally volunteer for: such as church nursery...it basically has to be things you would normally get paid for.
You could do chores for an elderly neighbor, babysit for someone not your family, there are also a list of organizations that they have already contacted who will allow them to help.
This school also requires that all parents provide a certain number of volunteer hours around the school: stapling papers, making copies, coaching sports teams, cleaning around the school, etc.
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RE: Community Service Required for Graduation? - 7/9/2008 8:27:50 PM
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stampinlady
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I think it's ridiculous(sp?) and don't agree with it at all. To me, it's a parents job to teach their children to help others. Our park district has a volunteer program called Junior Leadership and teens from 13 - 18 can pick the camps they want to help out at. Dd did this last year and I signed both up this summer. They both have enjoyed it. They get points per hour they serve and get free park district services if they choose.
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RE: Community Service Required for Graduation? - 7/9/2008 9:00:19 PM
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Sunnymom
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quote:
100 hours for college students isn't a lot over a years time. Many spend more hours playing video games or just loafing about! That's less then 2 hours a week. And from what I read it wasn't a requirement but kids were offered an incentive to do so.
When I went to college, I took a full load of courses and worked 30+ hours a week, plus homework, bus visitation, singing for church services at a nursing home and preparing for my Sunday School class. If running a church bus route and the nursing home ministry counted as community service, I'd be OK, but if not, I'd not have qualified, and that's the kind of thing I'd be concerned about- it could actually withhold a benefit from kids who are already busier than a one-legged man in a butt-kickin' contest.
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RE: Community Service Required for Graduation? - 7/9/2008 9:52:34 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
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quote:
To me, it's a parents job to teach their children to help others.
But what about the parents who aren't? I went to a highschool where parental involvement wasn't very high, I would say *maybe* 7-8% of the students had involved families. But we all had the same community service requirement. I bet there were a lot of kids who were blessed by the teachers heading the different service programs that wouldn't have done them, or had that guidance, if it wasn't a requirement.
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RE: Community Service Required for Graduation? - 7/9/2008 10:21:49 PM
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garsyt
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It might be the parents job - BUT so many parents are in need of a good teaching themselves. Their are so many kids that can't think beyond themselves and unfortunately that is a LEARNED behavior that they learn often times directly from their parents.
I would NOT be comfortable with it at all if only certain volunteer opportunities counted toward "approved" hours. Schools and parents and teens/college students should be able to decide for themselves what is appropriate and what isn't.
quote:
When I went to college, I took a full load of courses and worked 30+ hours a week, plus homework, bus visitation, singing for church services at a nursing home and preparing for my Sunday School class. If running a church bus route and the nursing home ministry counted as community service, I'd be OK, but if not, I'd not have qualified, and that's the kind of thing I'd be concerned about- it could actually withhold a benefit from kids who are already busier than a one-legged man in a butt-kickin' contest.
I also took a full load, worked at least 25-30 hours a week and HAD to maintain a certain grade point average to keep a scholarship I had. I volunteered at the church I attended in college. I was a member of a couple organizations, and was heavily involved in college theatre. Then there was homework. Yep. I too was busy. But there was summer break. There are holiday breaks. And even with my full load I had some down time. Even now with a family going to school part time and working full time, my dh finds time to volunteer at least a little bit with the boys cub scouts, or helping out a neighbor in need. I don't work full time or even part time yet - BUT even if I do end up getting a job I will STILL make time to volunteer.
Blessings,
Garsy
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RE: Community Service Required for Graduation? - 7/9/2008 10:22:56 PM
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Sunnymom
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quote:
But what about the parents who aren't? I went to a highschool where parental involvement wasn't very high, I would say *maybe* 7-8% of the students had involved families. But we all had the same community service requirement. I bet there were a lot of kids who were blessed by the teachers heading the different service programs that wouldn't have done them, or had that guidance, if it wasn't a requirement.
Well, are we going to say that the choices and freedoms of responsible parents should be sacrificed so that schools can be surrogate parents for those children whose parents are nimrods?
Lots of parents don't feed their kids healthy meals, or make sure they get enough sleep, and allow them to watch immorality on tv and play computer games until their eyes cross. At what point do we 'step in' and have societal mandates and programs to make sure that kids are well fed and healthy, both mentally and physically?
We can't step in until someone does something illegal, but more and more I see responsible parents losing their power of choice in their children's lives because of irresponsible parents who shouldn't have a dog, much less a kid.
I think the best solution is for community service to be a separate credit, just as other extra-curriculars and electives. That way those who WANT to do the work are rewarded for their efforts, and we don't have kids just 'doing time' to get a checkmark on a piece of paper.
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RE: Community Service Required for Graduation? - 7/9/2008 10:32:12 PM
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JuliaHop
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quote:
think the best solution is for community service to be a separate credit, just as other extra-curriculars and electives. That way those who WANT to do the work are rewarded for their efforts, and we don't have kids just 'doing time' to get a checkmark on a piece of paper.
And I would think that using the children as a "slave labor" tax base should not be a consideration as proposed (see below) by Obama:
quote:
Goals set for students
"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set," he said Wednesday. "We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."
He said he would make federal assistance conditional on school districts establishing service programs and set the goal of 50 hours of service a year for middle school and high school students.
For college students, Obama would set the goal at 100 hours of service a year and create a $4,000 annual tax credit for college students tied to that level of service.
Found at: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-obama-national-servicejul03,0,5754842.story
Sorry...but if the national security volunteerism involves children, it sounds a lot like Hitler's Youth.
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RE: Community Service Required for Graduation? - 7/10/2008 10:27:59 AM
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IonMoon
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Wow- this thread has gone in a lot of directions...
The plan does not say it would have to be after school hours, even if it worked out that way, how is that different from requiring homework after school hours?
50 hours in middle/highschool comes out to an hour/week... or 10-5 hour weekend/summer days. Double that for college students (which would be completely voluntarty). I think everyone can spare that. I am in grad school full-time, home school my two teens, work full-time, and I still have time to volunteer.
Sure, volunteering is a valuable experience... but community service, even when required, has has merits as well.
Just like independent reading for pleasure/knowledge is a wonderful thing, but required reading can still be beneficial.
Kids who are already doing these things will be able to count what they are doing anyhow...
And public schools were not started strictly for academics.
Tara P
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RE: Community Service Required for Graduation? - 7/10/2008 10:48:44 AM
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garsyt
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I know several private schools both religious and not, that also have a community service hours requirement.
IF my 9th grader was required to have 50 hours of volunteer/community service he could easily have most of it done with his schedule for the next 2 weeks and a few added hours helping out with his brother's cub scout pack. 20 hours of service a week for 2 weeks during the summer - and that's 40 hours. He's doing that at the local Zoo. That leaves 10 hours to fill in working with the cub scouts.
Now if one were to restrict themselves to ONLY doing things that were affiliated with a church or religious group- there may be a problem. But there are plenty of volunteer opportunities that while they may not be directly religious that are very worthwhile!
Take part in a tree planting event, help build a house, participate in a city clean up project, do a food drive for a local food bank, work a registration booth for a parks and rec program, start a garden and get neighborhood kids involved and donate the harvest to those in need. All perfectly acceptable but not necessarily religious in nature.
I dare say - many folks (including myself) waste at least 100 hours A MONTH doing exactly what I'm doing now, sitting on the computer. How much better a place the world would be if we all would shut off the electronics and did something for others.
Blessings,
Garsy
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RE: Community Service Required for Graduation? - 7/10/2008 12:38:04 PM
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kernsfamily
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quote:
I am concerned because 'mandated volunteerism' makes the backs of my knees itch. Because of the guarantees of the 13th Amendment. Because some of these kids aren't old enough to hold jobs, but yet might be required to work for the gov't. Because there are kids working their way through college that I think would be overly burdened to fulfill such a requirement. Because I believe it robs parents of the opportunity to teach their kids learn how to be cheerful givers because they want to, and not because they have to.
So what do you all think? How does this program strike you? Is there already something similar in your school?
Sounds almost like something you'd hear about in communist Russia....mandated "volunteerism" for the "good of the State", mandated by the 'leader'....
I had my first job "outside the home" when I was 12 years old....in 1980. High schoolers are certainly old enough to hold jobs.
"Volunteering" that is "mandated" is not "volunteerism"......it's an "unfunded mandate".....
regardless.....our district does NOT have "mandated" volunteerism, though, every high school student I personally know, is heavily involved with some sort of volunteer work ANYWAY....
this not about "volunteerism".....this is about ELECTION YEAR POLITICS.....
then, what else do you expect from someone who closely resembles a marxist?
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Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Community Service Required for Graduation? - 7/10/2008 12:54:54 PM
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IonMoon
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I MUCH prefer the idea of federal funds being tied to something like this than to something like test scores.
I complete support it being very flexible in both where and when the hours are completed. And I haven't seen any reason thus far to think they wouldn't be.
I think it could only be compared to communist work groups if we were requiring the kids to work for certain organizations doing certain things.
The only thing like *that* I have seen would be the programs like Americorps, which Obama has spoken of expanding, which are completely voluntary.
Tara P
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RE: Community Service Required for Graduation? - 7/10/2008 6:18:47 PM
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Sideways
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What a wonderful post, Garsy. It's so heartening to see a family that recognizes and supports all the valuable work volunteers do in our communities and pitches in to help.
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RE: Community Service Required for Graduation? - 7/10/2008 6:27:41 PM
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JuliaHop
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"Volunteering" that is "mandated" is not "volunteerism"......it's an "unfunded mandate".....
Well said, KernsFamily!
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John 3:16
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RE: Community Service Required for Graduation? - 7/10/2008 8:24:03 PM
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PrincessDonna
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If they don't call it volunteering, but call it mandatory community service...in which kids are required to serve their community in some way, I don't have a problem with the terminology. I just have a problem with the federal government requiring any such thing, or attaching money for the schools to it.
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RE: Community Service Required for Graduation? - 7/10/2008 10:33:07 PM
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garsyt
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right now tho, with even school budgets being super tight, I'm pretty certain that pretty much any school district is going to do absolutely everything they can to boost the budgets! If someone is asking for certain number of hours of community service and promising $$$$$ - schools are going to take advantage of that!
I'd rather it be called community service instead of mandated volunteerism!
Blessings,
Garsy
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RE: Community Service Required for Graduation? - 7/10/2008 10:40:18 PM
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buckifn
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I'm all for the idea and think it definitely should be mandatory for parent's to volunteer at their child's school x amt of hours every month.
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RE: Community Service Required for Graduation? - 7/10/2008 10:52:44 PM
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sen10tious
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
I'm all for the idea and think it definitely should be mandatory for parent's to volunteer at their child's school x amt of hours every month.
I like that idea of requiring parents to volunteer serve at their child's school; particularly because I think it would both expose and solve a lot of problems very efficiently.
The problem with federal funding is that they will find a way to make all this "free" help be more expensive than if they'd awarded private contracts. What is the real point of the community service? To get kids active and try to teach character? Or to provide service?
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RE: Community Service Required for Graduation? - 7/11/2008 9:10:20 AM
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kernsfamily
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quote:
What is the real point of the community service? To get kids active and try to teach character? Or to provide service?
The real point...and reason for this?
To get a certain candidate elected President. Someone out there probably ran a "poll" on a number of "issues" and potential "big government" programs, and the "mandated community service/volunteering" thing proved to be a popular idea amongst those who were polled.
Thus...the idea was born.
Mandated community service??? Isn't that what they sentence people to who are first time DUI offenders? habitual traffic offenders? maybe even for "minor" theft offenses?
This is handing down a 'sentence" of "mandated community service for what offense??? Being a teenager?
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Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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I think at the most, the state could mandate something like this, but the feds have no reason to be in the nitty-gritty day to day school operation, IMO. 
