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RE: Baptist - 7/10/2008 7:03:32 PM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 500
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Hi guys! I apologize if I'm being a party pooper, but this is a question that has been reoccurring in my head for a long time. Ive read through this thread and still have no idea where Baptist's came from. Some here say we came from Catholicism, some say not. Could someone give me dates and data to confirm where Baptists originated from? Did they originate from John the Baptist? Is the Baptist denomination 2008 years old? This is definitely something I'd like to know for multiple reasons, but mostly for security.
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RE: Baptist - 7/10/2008 7:39:44 PM
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yustme
Posts: 399
Joined: 5/2/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
I am so glad Heaven will not be devided by denominations. Ain't you?
Amen,Praise the Lord,Glory to God!!!
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RE: Baptist - 7/10/2008 7:47:50 PM
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StephK
Posts: 1952
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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I posted a link to The Founders Ministries where Tom Ascol gives a general history of the Southern Baptist start which goes back to the Reformation and includes some of the other branches.
http://www.founders.org/journal/fj70/article1.html
_____________________________
Stephanie
Communism "IS" socialism....
"How do you tell a Socialist:- It's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an Anti-Socialist someone who understands Marx and Lenin" -Ronald Reagan
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RE: Baptist - 7/10/2008 7:50:14 PM
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yustme
Posts: 399
Joined: 5/2/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
Hi guys! I apologize if I'm being a party pooper, but this is a question that has been reoccurring in my head for a long time. Ive read through this thread and still have no idea where Baptist's came from. Some here say we came from Catholicism, some say not. Could someone give me dates and data to confirm where Baptists originated from? Did they originate from John the Baptist? Is the Baptist denomination 2008 years old? This is definitely something I'd like to know for multiple reasons, but mostly for security.
This Is the reason I started this thread.I've been part of the "Baptist doctrinal thing " now for about 32 yrs,and I've never been so confused about a church group In my life.Nor have I ever seen so many church splits.I don't mean to slam the Baptists,but very few of the Baptists can seem to get along.WHATS WRONG with them?Now understand,I said very few,not all of them.
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RE: Baptist - 7/10/2008 8:17:20 PM
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StephK
Posts: 1952
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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http://www.reformedreader.org/history/vedder/contents.htm
_____________________________
Stephanie
Communism "IS" socialism....
"How do you tell a Socialist:- It's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an Anti-Socialist someone who understands Marx and Lenin" -Ronald Reagan
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RE: Baptist - 7/10/2008 8:33:40 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 10642
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
Hi guys! I apologize if I'm being a party pooper, but this is a question that has been reoccurring in my head for a long time. Ive read through this thread and still have no idea where Baptist's came from. Some here say we came from Catholicism, some say not. Could someone give me dates and data to confirm where Baptists originated from? Did they originate from John the Baptist? Is the Baptist denomination 2008 years old? This is definitely something I'd like to know for multiple reasons, but mostly for security.
This Is the reason I started this thread.I've been part of the "Baptist doctrinal thing " now for about 32 yrs,and I've never been so confused about a church group In my life.Nor have I ever seen so many church splits.I don't mean to slam the Baptists,but very few of the Baptists can seem to get along.WHATS WRONG with them?Now understand,I said very few,not all of them.
There are two prevailing theories on the origin of the Baptist church. One holds the baptist came about during the Protestant Reformation and are descended from the Catholic church through the Church of England.
The other it the Baptist Church is on os perpetual existence. In other words it has been around since the time of Christ. They believe the church Jesus started was a Baptist church.
The latter is the most far fetched. They claim John was a Baptist because that is what he is called in the Bible. This is simply a misunderstanding of language. The term baptist as applies to John would more accurately be translated as Baptizer or one who baptizes. It is interesting to note that there are two other denominations which claim existence from Biblical times. These are the Church of Christ and some sects of The Church of God. This is based on reading scripture that refers to the Church of Christ or The Church of God in the Bible. Both references referring not to a denomination but to a universal church made up of all believer in Christ.
After years of studying religion to include current churches I have come to the conclusion that the original "churches" were either Jewish or Gentile which was the original Catholic Church. All other denomination as we know them today are branches from those primarily the Catholic church.
_____________________________
Don't take life here to seriously. No one gets out alive.
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RE: Baptist - 7/10/2008 8:40:16 PM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 500
Status: offline
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quote:
Nor have I ever seen so many church splits.
Boy ain't this true!!!!! This is what really ticks me off. So many church splits, and why? Usually over petty, rediculous, legalistic standards. Or, the stupid Calvinism vs Arminianism debate, which I utterly despise. I have seen too many Godly centered churchs fight because one is Calvinist and the other isn't. Ugh...ok, I'm off my soapbox (for now). 
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RE: Baptist - 7/11/2008 8:29:12 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6504
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
Hi guys! I apologize if I'm being a party pooper, but this is a question that has been reoccurring in my head for a long time. Ive read through this thread and still have no idea where Baptist's came from. Some here say we came from Catholicism, some say not. Could someone give me dates and data to confirm where Baptists originated from? Did they originate from John the Baptist? Is the Baptist denomination 2008 years old? This is definitely something I'd like to know for multiple reasons, but mostly for security.
This Is the reason I started this thread.I've been part of the "Baptist doctrinal thing " now for about 32 yrs,and I've never been so confused about a church group In my life.Nor have I ever seen so many church splits.I don't mean to slam the Baptists,but very few of the Baptists can seem to get along.WHATS WRONG with them?Now understand,I said very few,not all of them.
By the same token, I spent 34 years in a denomination with the same basic doctrines as Nazarines and, according to its own denominational newsletter, the average number of years a "pastor" stayed at a church was 2 years. That translated to a LOT of preachers being run off just when he had learned his congregation enough to begin ministering to them. (And the only church splits I'm aware of in this area came from those folk, not SBC churches.)
Baptists are not the only ones with in-fighting over trivial things. Part of that is because, unfortunately, we can't always identify the wheat from the tares. Part of it is due to people that want their pet sin accepted while others' are publically denounced.
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RE: Baptist - 7/11/2008 11:23:36 AM
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yustme
Posts: 399
Joined: 5/2/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
Hi guys! I apologize if I'm being a party pooper, but this is a question that has been reoccurring in my head for a long time. Ive read through this thread and still have no idea where Baptist's came from. Some here say we came from Catholicism, some say not. Could someone give me dates and data to confirm where Baptists originated from? Did they originate from John the Baptist? Is the Baptist denomination 2008 years old? This is definitely something I'd like to know for multiple reasons, but mostly for security.
This Is the reason I started this thread.I've been part of the "Baptist doctrinal thing " now for about 32 yrs,and I've never been so confused about a church group In my life.Nor have I ever seen so many church splits.I don't mean to slam the Baptists,but very few of the Baptists can seem to get along.WHATS WRONG with them?Now understand,I said very few,not all of them.
By the same token, I spent 34 years in a denomination with the same basic doctrines as Nazarines and, according to its own denominational newsletter, the average number of years a "pastor" stayed at a church was 2 years. That translated to a LOT of preachers being run off just when he had learned his congregation enough to begin ministering to them. (And the only church splits I'm aware of in this area came from those folk, not SBC churches.)
Baptists are not the only ones with in-fighting over trivial things. Part of that is because, unfortunately, we can't always identify the wheat from the tares. Part of it is due to people that want their pet sin accepted while others' are publically denounced.
I don't know what Denomination your talking about,But the Nazarenes don't work that way.I'm a daughter of a daceased Nazarene preacher and we stayed in Pittsburgh for 10 yrs.In the Nazarene church,no preacher leaves untill the Lord removes him from that church.
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RE: Baptist - 7/11/2008 11:27:24 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6504
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
I don't know what Denomination your talking about,But the Nazarenes don't work that way.I'm a daughter of a daceased Nazarene preacher and we stayed in Pittsburgh for 10 yrs.In the Nazarene church,no preacher leaves untill the Lord removes him from that church.
Are they like Methodists, as in pastors are appointed by a higher authority than the local congregation? (Please excuse my ignorance on the polity of the Nazarenes, I'm only familiar with some of their doctrines.)
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RE: Baptist - 7/11/2008 11:48:20 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6504
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
I don't know what Denomination your talking about,But the Nazarenes don't work that way.I'm a daughter of a daceased Nazarene preacher and we stayed in Pittsburgh for 10 yrs.In the Nazarene church,no preacher leaves untill the Lord removes him from that church.
Are they like Methodists, as in pastors are appointed by a higher authority than the local congregation? (Please excuse my ignorance on the polity of the Nazarenes, I'm only familiar with some of their doctrines.)
I just talked with a lady in my office that's been a member of the Nazarine church for about 20 years and she said that a pastor can be terminated by the church if they choose. Calling a pastor is a little different than at a Baptist church, but he can't settle in for as long as he chooses either.
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RE: Baptist - 7/11/2008 12:58:06 PM
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yustme
Posts: 399
Joined: 5/2/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
I don't know what Denomination your talking about,But the Nazarenes don't work that way.I'm a daughter of a daceased Nazarene preacher and we stayed in Pittsburgh for 10 yrs.In the Nazarene church,no preacher leaves untill the Lord removes him from that church.
Are they like Methodists, as in pastors are appointed by a higher authority than the local congregation? (Please excuse my ignorance on the polity of the Nazarenes, I'm only familiar with some of their doctrines.)
I just talked with a lady in my office that's been a member of the Nazarine church for about 20 years and she said that a pastor can be terminated by the church if they choose. Calling a pastor is a little different than at a Baptist church, but he can't settle in for as long as he chooses either.
Yes,if the pastor is not pastoring the church Biblicaly,orpreaching false Doctrine or is not moraly obedient to the Bible then the deacons can have him removed.But there has to be Biblical grounds for it.
In the Nazarenes the preachers remain in a church until God says their work there is finished.Then the pastor contacts the DS and the DS lets them know what churches are without pastors.Then the pastor and the DS prays for Gods guidence on where God wants that pastor to go.However,noone ever just places the pastor in any church without lots of prayer.
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RE: Baptist - 7/11/2008 2:02:42 PM
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yustme
Posts: 399
Joined: 5/2/2007
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JimboFletch,were you a Nazarene at one time?
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RE: Baptist - 7/11/2008 2:32:32 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6504
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
JimboFletch,were you a Nazarene at one time?
No, I just considered them when I left the Free Wills because I still thought Southern Baptists distorted scripture and believed in a license to sin.
(The "free will" part was about born again, blood-bought joint-heirs with Christ having the free will to denounce God and leave the faith, thus terminating their salvation.)
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RE: Baptist - 7/11/2008 2:54:44 PM
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yustme
Posts: 399
Joined: 5/2/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
JimboFletch,were you a Nazarene at one time?
No, I just considered them when I left the Free Wills because I still thought Southern Baptists distorted scripture and believed in a license to sin.
(The "free will" part was about born again, blood-bought joint-heirs with Christ having the free will to denounce God and leave the faith, thus terminating their salvation.)
OK,now I understand why you think the Nazarenes believe in works.There are denominations who believe in works,but were not one.Thanks.
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RE: Baptist - 7/11/2008 3:05:39 PM
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yustme
Posts: 399
Joined: 5/2/2007
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I just checked on something.I also looked up the history of the Nazarenes.The very first Nazarene church came about in Los Angeles Ca. in 1895.The churches grew in such numbers that in 1908 the Nazarene church was recognized as a Denomination.
I knew it had to be older than 1908 cause I could remember my dad talking about the first church in the 1800's.
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RE: Baptist - 7/11/2008 3:06:46 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6504
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
OK,now I understand why you think the Nazarenes believe in works.There are denominations who believe in works,but were not one.Thanks.
No, it doesn't have to do with a specific denomination; it's just my understanding of the belief that one can lose or end their salvation. I now believe that eternal life is eternal. But that's another thread.
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RE: Baptist - 7/11/2008 7:00:48 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 1959
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Well I may stand partially corrected "Soul Sleep" is used in the FWB teaching but staying in the grave until the resurrection seems to be. Could just be a matter of semantics.
But sinse you are SB, and have attended FWB; I will yield to your knowledge.
Do you concur that the FWB do not believe in the rapture and the SB do?
Do not Souther Baptist believe in eternal security (5th point calvinism)?
Thsnks
RC
All the FWB I knew tended to be amil.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Baptist - 7/12/2008 11:15:17 AM
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yustme
Posts: 399
Joined: 5/2/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
OK,now I understand why you think the Nazarenes believe in works.There are denominations who believe in works,but were not one.Thanks.
No, it doesn't have to do with a specific denomination; it's just my understanding of the belief that one can lose or end their salvation. I now believe that eternal life is eternal. But that's another thread.
Thank you for your honesty.Do want you to know something.When we left the Nazaerne church and began to attend the Baptist I did not want to believe in some thing that was wrong Biblicaly even if my dad did tech something else.I ask the Lord to guide me in my Bible and teach me the truth.I did not get my belief from just reading the Bible,I went to Bible comentaries and even thealogins,so this is why I believe what I do.But like you said,this is for another thread.
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RE: Baptist - 7/12/2008 11:19:01 AM
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yustme
Posts: 399
Joined: 5/2/2007
Status: offline
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I'm not discounting the Bible in any way.It's the most important Book on earth.But Bible experts can help us to understand the depth of the Bible.
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RE: Baptist - 7/12/2008 2:46:18 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5238
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
I'm not discounting the Bible in any way.It's the most important Book on earth.But Bible experts can help us to understand the depth of the Bible.
Some of the "Experts" might, but many of them are full of it; and I ain't talking about the Holy Spirit.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Baptist - 7/14/2008 11:37:27 AM
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yustme
Posts: 399
Joined: 5/2/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
I'm not discounting the Bible in any way.It's the most important Book on earth.But Bible experts can help us to understand the depth of the Bible.
Some of the "Experts" might, but many of them are full of it; and I ain't talking about the Holy Spirit.
Thanks
RC
You're right,that is why the Bible say to study to show thyself approved rightly deviding the Scripture.If we ask,the HS wil reveal the thruths of the scriptures.But we must be mentaly and Spiritually ready to accept what the HS shows us.Satan knows the scriptures too,much better than we do and he's good at twisting the scriptures for all of us.This is why it is so important to dig into the scriptures and really pray for God to give us wisdom because if we don't we can get off track so easy and believe something that is not Bible.I know,I've been their too many times.
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RE: Baptist - 7/16/2008 9:18:11 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6504
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Well I may stand partially corrected "Soul Sleep" is used in the FWB teaching but staying in the grave until the resurrection seems to be. Could just be a matter of semantics.
But sinse you are SB, and have attended FWB; I will yield to your knowledge.
Do you concur that the FWB do not believe in the rapture and the SB do?
Do not Souther Baptist believe in eternal security (5th point calvinism)?
Thsnks
RC
All the FWB I knew tended to be amil.
It seems to depend on which part of the country you're in. In the Southeast, all FWB I ever met were all pre-mil/pre-trib. They, like John Hagee, also seemed obsessed with the OT Temple.
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