What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (Full Version)

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modu -> What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/6/2008 9:21:31 PM)

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ta_mosquito -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/6/2008 10:49:49 PM)

How about giving us YOUR view since you like to put the distinction in your OP's? [;)]



J_Michael80 -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/6/2008 11:32:29 PM)

quote:

original: ta_mosquito

How about giving us YOUR view since you like to put the distinction in your OP's?


Yes I agree, I would also like to here the OP's view. Theology VS spritual revelation, interesting topic I have to admit. Please give us your opinion.



Ezra -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/7/2008 12:02:16 AM)

1. Theology is a derivative of "spiritual" or Divine revelation, therefore it can never be a substitute for revelation.

2. Theology attempts to be systematic (and is often pedantic and wordy) whereas revelation is often disconnected, with many layers of meaning, without being wordy.

3. Theology is often erroneous, since it is man's understanding of what God has said, whereas revelation in inerrant, because it comes directly from God.

4. Theology is primarily interpretation, wheras revelation is primarily proclamation.



MrFribbles -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/7/2008 1:08:43 AM)

quote:

1. Theology is a derivative of "spiritual" or Divine revelation, therefore it can never be a substitute for revelation.

2. Theology attempts to be systematic (and is often pedantic and wordy) whereas revelation is often disconnected, with many layers of meaning, without being wordy.

3. Theology is often erroneous, since it is man's understanding of what God has said, whereas revelation in inerrant, because it comes directly from God.

4. Theology is primarily interpretation, wheras revelation is primarily proclamation.


The question then becomes - how do we determine if a so-called revelation is genuine or not? If only we had a systematized collection of beliefs to help us guard against unorthodoxy... Sort of a science of God, if you will... Oh wait, we do. It's called theology, yay!



J_Michael80 -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/7/2008 1:27:01 AM)

quote:

original: MrFribbles

How do we determine if a so-called revelation is genuine or not?


I believe if someone receives a revelation from God, then it must be compared with scripture, not theology. While I agree that we are prone to hearing false revelations, I don't believe this nullifies people receiving true revelations.



slimon11 -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/7/2008 1:44:31 AM)

This makes me think of another question and I am sorry if I am not being clear here but...

Does God give special revelation to some but not others? Could God show me a "layer of meaning" that I understand and others do not see? Maybe because of my specific life experiences or because of who I am, I get a message or layer of meaning through His Word that others do not?



theo_book -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/7/2008 12:52:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: modu

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Any category listed under "ology" MEANS by definition, "A study of" whatever the issue is. And it is ALWAYS subjective because it is the self doing the studying.

Theology, for example, is a study of God, as "Theos" is the Greek word translated "God" in the bible.

Just as "herbology" is a study of Herbs.

"Anthropology" is a study of "man," because anthropos is one of the Greek words for man.

"Spiritual revelation" however, comes from a source outside the self, with the exception of the self-deceived. Because of this it is objective, with the exception of the self-deceived.

There is seldom peace between the believers of such opposing authorities in those cases wherein they are in conflict.



Ezra -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/8/2008 3:48:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slimon11

This makes me think of another question and I am sorry if I am not being clear here but...

Does God give special revelation to some but not others? Could God show me a "layer of meaning" that I understand and others do not see? Maybe because of my specific life experiences or because of who I am, I get a message or layer of meaning through His Word that others do not?


"Insight" might be more accurate than "special revelation", although we can never rule out "special insight". Some have been given greater insight into God's truths than others.

The written Word of God must be the ultimate authority in all matters, and everything must be examined in the light of Scripture, no matter what term is used or who claims what.



J_Michael80 -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/8/2008 4:52:00 AM)

quote:

original: Ezra

"Insight" might be more accurate than "special revelation," although we can never rule out "special insight."


I have to disagree. You cannot replace the word revelation with insight. Why not? Because the word insight itself does not involve God. On the other hand, the word revelation itself involves God. These are two completely different meanings according to the Websters Dictionary.

[insight]
1. the ability to see and understand clearly the inner nature of things by intuition.
2. a clear understanding of the inner nature of some specific thing.
3. awareness of one's own mental attitudes and behavior.

[revelation]
1. a revealing or disclosing of something.
2. something disclosed; a striking disclosure, as of something not previously known.
3. communication, by a divinity or by divine agency, of divine truth or knowledge; God's disclosure or manifestation to humanity of himself or of his will.



earthless -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/8/2008 8:39:45 AM)

Maybe the OP just wanted to cheaply advertise their website?



modu -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/8/2008 5:52:58 PM)

Theology cannot give life, while spiritual revelation in Christ Jesus must be from the Holy Spirit confirmed in the Holy Bible and finally, it gives life.
In spiritual revelation one is mainly led to walk in the Spirit of Christ, but in theology, you want to answer the questions of the faith through mental deductions.



MrFribbles -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/9/2008 12:48:13 AM)

quote:

I believe if someone receives a revelation from God, then it must be compared with scripture, not theology.


What safety net do you have in place to make sure nobody abuses and twists Scripture?



theo_book -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/9/2008 7:28:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrFribbles

quote:

I believe if someone receives a revelation from God, then it must be compared with scripture, not theology.


What safety net do you have in place to make sure nobody abuses and twists Scripture?


Knowledge of the scriptures.



MrFribbles -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/9/2008 1:20:45 PM)

quote:

Knowledge of the scriptures.


Some people have "knowledge" of the Scriptures, and still reach destructive conclusions. Someone can read "Ask anything in my name, and you shall receive it," and decide that prosperity/health & wealth gospel teaching is true, because of their "knowledge" of Scripture.



rcjames -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation re (7/9/2008 2:39:03 PM)

Spiritual revelation will be related by the Spirit of God to a Believer (Spiritual person) this revelation must be testes by other Believers before accepted.

Theolong is a study of God by man's intelluct, and shold be recieved as such; man's idea; maybe God's, but probably not.

Scripture tells us;

(1Co 1:18) For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

(1Co 1:19) For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

(1Co 1:20) Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

But also tells us in the same epislte;

(1Co 2:1) And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

(1Co 2:2) For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

(1Co 2:3) And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

(1Co 2:4) And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

(1Co 2:5) That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

A really big difference we should all adhere to today.

Thanks
RC



Ezra -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/10/2008 1:36:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: faithfulservant_

quote:

original: Ezra

"Insight" might be more accurate than "special revelation," although we can never rule out "special insight."


I have to disagree. You cannot replace the word revelation with insight.



There was no attempt to replace the word revelation with insight. The word "revelation" is reserved for those who are prophets and apostles and receive inerrant words or visions from God. The word "insight" is for those who are not prophets and apostles, but receive illumination from the Holy Spirit regarding the truths of God. Therefore spiritual insight does involve God. No man can understand spiritual truths without the assistance of the Holy Spirit.

As for a so-called "safety net", the Word of God was already mentioned as the ultimate authority. There could be no better "safety net".



MrFribbles -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/10/2008 1:42:07 AM)

quote:

As for a so-called "safety net", the Word of God was already mentioned as the ultimate authority. There could be no better "safety net".


Obviously Scripture is the ultimate authority. But how are we to know we're wielding it correctly?



Ezra -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/10/2008 2:18:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrFribbles

quote:

As for a so-called "safety net", the Word of God was already mentioned as the ultimate authority. There could be no better "safety net".


Obviously Scripture is the ultimate authority. But how are we to know we're wielding it correctly?


The Holy Spirit Himself bears witness to the correct understanding and application of His Word. He will bear witness to other believers that the Scriptures have been understood and applied properly, and they will concur with an "Amen".



MrFribbles -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/10/2008 2:21:54 AM)

quote:

The Holy Spirit Himself bears witness to the correct understanding and application of His Word. He will bear witness to other believers that the Scriptures have been understood and applied properly, and they will concur with an "Amen".


So, let's say, hypothetically, that a group of believers are gathered together, and someone reads a verse in Scripture, or a passage, and interprets it in an entirely incorrect fashion. However, they are a convincing speaker, and because the group s/he is with doesn't know better, they agree with an "amen."
Come to think of it, this isn't hypothetical at all. I'm sure it happens all the time. In fact, I've seen it happen on this forum.
What then?



theo_book -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/10/2008 8:36:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrFribbles

quote:

The Holy Spirit Himself bears witness to the correct understanding and application of His Word. He will bear witness to other believers that the Scriptures have been understood and applied properly, and they will concur with an "Amen".


So, let's say, hypothetically, that a group of believers are gathered together, and someone reads a verse in Scripture, or a passage, and interprets it in an entirely incorrect fashion. However, they are a convincing speaker, and because the group s/he is with doesn't know better, they agree with an "amen."
Come to think of it, this isn't hypothetical at all. I'm sure it happens all the time. In fact, I've seen it happen on this forum.
What then?


If my understanding makes me love God with a strongerlove; love my neighbor to the point I will give my life for that neighbor; and love myself because I am the image of God rather than I am who I am, I think my understanding is guided by the correct principles.

If however, my understanding makes me begin to suspect God has ulterior motives; makes me send my neighbor on his way without helping him; and makes me love myself for my pedigree, well, I just think I am in serious trouble.



URForgiven -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/10/2008 8:37:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrFribbles

quote:

The Holy Spirit Himself bears witness to the correct understanding and application of His Word. He will bear witness to other believers that the Scriptures have been understood and applied properly, and they will concur with an "Amen".


So, let's say, hypothetically, that a group of believers are gathered together, and someone reads a verse in Scripture, or a passage, and interprets it in an entirely incorrect fashion. However, they are a convincing speaker, and because the group s/he is with doesn't know better, they agree with an "amen."
Come to think of it, this isn't hypothetical at all. I'm sure it happens all the time. In fact, I've seen it happen on this forum.
What then?


You can read anything you can imagine into the Word. And entire cults and denominations have been built on the errant interpretations of just one sentence. Our struggle is to only read out of the Word.

There is no "special revelation". In other words the Holy Spirit does not reveal one meaning to one person and another meaning to someone else. Without exception, errant interpretations will always be made obvious by the comparing of scripture to scripture. Obvious to those who are not blinded by their preconceptions, but hidden from those that are.

There are not multiple meanings, but there is depth to what is revealed that can have multiple applications. After all, what is contained there originates in the mind of God, and I would expect nothing less; nor can I ever hope to grasp it all, but can only be content with the little that has been made known.

Peace



theo_book -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/10/2008 9:15:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

You can read anything you can imagine into the Word. And entire cults and denominations have been built on the errant interpretations of just one sentence. Our struggle is to only read out of the Word.

There is no "special revelation". In other words the Holy Spirit does not reveal one meaning to one person and another meaning to someone else. Without exception, errant interpretations will always be made obvious by the comparing of scripture to scripture. Obvious to those who are not blinded by their preconceptions, but hidden from those that are.

There are not multiple meanings, but there is depth to what is revealed that can have multiple applications. After all, what is contained there originates in the mind of God, and I would expect nothing less; nor can I ever hope to grasp it all, but can only be content with the little that has been made known. Peace


"Not multiple meanings but multiple applications." I like that. Does that mean that since we agree we are probably both wrong? (kidding)

One of the most misunderstood and misquoted passages in scripture is John 21:15-17 I have heard many times that since Peter denied Jesus three times, Jesus made Peter admit his love for him three times. THAT is vindictive, not love. THAT is not my Lord. The truth of the matter is found in a proper translation, which is lacking in the King James Version.

"So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Look at it now properly translated:

Simon, son of Jonas, are you devoted to me? Peter responded "Yes Lord, I have affection for you." He saith to him, feed my lambs."
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, are you devoted to me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I have affection for thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, do you have affection for me? Peter was grieved because the third time, Jesus questioned his affection. And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I have affection for thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Notice two things here. First: Jesus enquired about "agape" devotion; Peter responded with "Phileo" affection. The third time, since Peter's devotion was not forthcoming, his affection was questioned.

And Second: Peter at first was trusted to teach or "feed" the lambs. After his failure to grow from affection to devotion, he was only qualified to teach the fully grown sheep, no longer the young lambs.

I think this message is available to all of God's children, but when we depend upon men to tell us what the Greek says (or the Hebrew) we begin to lose the depth of the messages contained therein.

This does not mean I have to know Greek or Hebrew, it means I have to make available to my study, those languages for verification.

What say ye?



rcjames -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/10/2008 9:38:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrFribbles

quote:

The Holy Spirit Himself bears witness to the correct understanding and application of His Word. He will bear witness to other believers that the Scriptures have been understood and applied properly, and they will concur with an "Amen".


So, let's say, hypothetically, that a group of believers are gathered together, and someone reads a verse in Scripture, or a passage, and interprets it in an entirely incorrect fashion. However, they are a convincing speaker, and because the group s/he is with doesn't know better, they agree with an "amen."
Come to think of it, this isn't hypothetical at all. I'm sure it happens all the time. In fact, I've seen it happen on this forum.
What then?


As we have discussed in other threads; that is why there needs to be accountability for leaders and teachers.

Thanks
RC



URForgiven -> RE: What is the difference between theology and spiritual revelation (7/10/2008 10:57:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: theo_book

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

You can read anything you can imagine into the Word. And entire cults and denominations have been built on the errant interpretations of just one sentence. Our struggle is to only read out of the Word.

There is no "special revelation". In other words the Holy Spirit does not reveal one meaning to one person and another meaning to someone else. Without exception, errant interpretations will always be made obvious by the comparing of scripture to scripture. Obvious to those who are not blinded by their preconceptions, but hidden from those that are.

There are not multiple meanings, but there is depth to what is revealed that can have multiple applications. After all, what is contained there originates in the mind of God, and I would expect nothing less; nor can I ever hope to grasp it all, but can only be content with the little that has been made known. Peace


"Not multiple meanings but multiple applications." I like that. Does that mean that since we agree we are probably both wrong? (kidding)

One of the most misunderstood and misquoted passages in scripture is John 21:15-17 I have heard many times that since Peter denied Jesus three times, Jesus made Peter admit his love for him three times. THAT is vindictive, not love. THAT is not my Lord. The truth of the matter is found in a proper translation, which is lacking in the King James Version.

"So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Look at it now properly translated:

Simon, son of Jonas, are you devoted to me? Peter responded "Yes Lord, I have affection for you." He saith to him, feed my lambs."
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, are you devoted to me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I have affection for thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, do you have affection for me? Peter was grieved because the third time, Jesus questioned his affection. And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I have affection for thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Notice two things here. First: Jesus enquired about "agape" devotion; Peter responded with "Phileo" affection. The third time, since Peter's devotion was not forthcoming, his affection was questioned.

And Second: Peter at first was trusted to teach or "feed" the lambs. After his failure to grow from affection to devotion, he was only qualified to teach the fully grown sheep, no longer the young lambs.

I think this message is available to all of God's children, but when we depend upon men to tell us what the Greek says (or the Hebrew) we begin to lose the depth of the messages contained therein.

This does not mean I have to know Greek or Hebrew, it means I have to make available to my study, those languages for verification.

What say ye?


I understand what you are saying, it is definitely helpful to have the original meaning of each word available to us. Here comes the but...but, there are many whose native languages are Greek and Hebrew, and still, they do not have a clue as to the meaning of what is being said. And meaning is everything.

When those words [which we can know their original meanings], are placed together in sentences, it then becomes not a matter of what does this word mean, but of what do these words that are placed together in this way mean? What is the thought behind the words? For that thought is the mind of God.

The jots and tittles are important in that they express a thought, which is truth, but to get caught up in the jots and tittles themselves is to miss the forest for the trees. That was and is the Jews snaggletooth. They spent generation after generation deciphering every nuance of every word, and when "The Word" was standing right in front of them, they couldn't even see Him.

Not sure what my point is in all that. Except that without the illumination of the Holy Spirit, it is impossible to know what the Word means. I do not think that means we shouldn't use everything at our disposal to get at the truth contained within the Word. But even then it will be the Holy Spirit who is prodding us to know, and who is allowing us to see the truth no matter if it is directly through the Word or through someone else's sharing with us what the Holy Spirit has revealed to them about the Word.

That's all I got...

Peace



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