RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/13/2008 10:56:45 PM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
yes, and you never go to a place of "worldiness" as you've described? Every establishment you go to is of proven Christian character?
I don't know what you mean by proven character. You are trying to make the same argument that others have made many posts back. obviously, there is a difference in a bar and a restaurant that serves alcohol.
Honestly, I'm not sure why you (or anyone) cares what others think about your going to a bar. It's not ok for me, but that doesn't mean it's not ok for you. You asked why, and I told and showed you. I'm not here to judge you or put you down for your beliefs. I just don't agree with them and that's ok too.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/13/2008 11:00:20 PM
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ddave12000
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
yes, and you never go to a place of "worldiness" as you've described? Every establishment you go to is of proven Christian character?
I don't know what you mean by proven character. You are trying to make the same argument that others have made many posts back. obviously, there is a difference in a bar and a restaurant that serves alcohol.
Honestly, I'm not sure why you (or anyone) cares what others think about your going to a bar. It's not ok for me, but that doesn't mean it's not ok for you. You asked why, and I told and showed you. I'm not here to judge you or put you down for your beliefs. I just don't agree with them and that's ok too.
I guess I don't care, since I don't know you from Adam, but this is a discussion board and the topic at hand...
Right now, you're saying the complete opposite of what you said a few posts ago. You said Christians shouldn't go to bars. That means all of us, not just you. You're saying I shouldn't go to a bar. I happen to disagree. At the same time, I'm in complete agreement that it's okay for you to not go to a bar. The difference between you and I (at least according to most of your posts thus far) is that I'm not telling you you're doing something wrong by not going to bars yourself.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/14/2008 1:30:08 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Drinking in and of itself is not the debated topic here.
Well, this is from the title:
quote:
Being a Christian and being around people who drink.
And this is from the OP:
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephenJ
I told them that while I don't think it's neccicerily wrong for Christians to drink non-excesively. . . .
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
No one is or has claimed that drinking is a sin. How much and to what degree the drinking is done is not debated either.
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephenJ
. . . my mother who, while telling me that I can make my own decisions on this issue, has assured me that she wouldn't do it in my place.
It appears to me that we are reading different parts of the thread, darling.
Regardless, you did write quote:
For some, drinking is not a sin. For me, it clearly is. and you wrote that going to a bar is sinful because to you, it supports drinking unto drunkenness.
You apparently know more about bars than I do; however, if one of my siblings asked me to attend him/her to a bar, would I go? Yes. I may bring along my agave and order tea, or I may break down and have a Pepsi, but I would go.
Such arguments do not impress me as logical. If I were to stop going everywhere that people committed heinous sin, I would have to lock myself in my house. I could not go to the hospital, where abortions are performed. I could not go to a courthouse, because they are full of liars. I could not watch a congressional proceding, because government has many liars and thieves. I could not go to my grocery store, because they won't even stop a thief exiting with the alarm blaring. I could never again buy a used car.
Let's all move to Jonestown, Guyana, where we can be protected from "the world."
But I serve a Savior who had His prophet write down that He said I am in the world but not of it. He was also clear on what is and is not sin; if I take it beyond what He has had written, that is of myself, and it is not something I should tell others they must do.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/14/2008 1:42:12 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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I am curious about something, darling, and I want you to know that your answer will not offend me. I will simply take it as your opinion.
There are several biblical holy days that I observe. At most of them, many drink wine. Passover, for example, is a day when we drink four cups of wine over a period of about three hours. The "cups" are amounts that are almost according to personal discretion. In other words, there is a limit regarding how little to pour in each cup but there is no limit regarding pouring in more. The only other limitation is that G-d said that drunkenness is sin, so drunkenness would be unacceptable at a Passover seder. However, sometimes, some people drink too much, because they were not careful enough or because of some physical problem.
If I invited you to my seder, would you attend, or would you see them as sinful?
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/14/2008 5:20:13 AM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
when I played competitive billiards.
Usta do this too, but that was before being savd...for me.
quote:
Is hanging out in a bar conducive to Christian conduct
I don't think the subject is hanging out in bars either. I've been to bars since I have been saved but no one would say I hang out at them.
I would also say, if a christian goes to a bar and acts like a christian, that cannot make some immature unbeliever sin.
I will add further....many bars would be a very uncomfortable place for christians. I cannot see a christian hanging out at a strip joint....a seedy dive....gay bar.....and going to a bar to get plastered. I can see a christian going to a bar, maybe a few times a year, or with secular friends, or to do some activity, like the billiards, or to go there after a event to celebrate with a beer.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/14/2008 5:41:44 AM
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zamdad
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I've benen lurking in this thread. Seems like everytime we have a thread on alcohol the pharisees come to life. This is one of those areas, it seems, where all too often we let personal convictions become gospel. We have our expectations of what "Christians" should be and then blast those who profess Him but don't meet our expectations.
I've told this story in other alcohol threads, so here it goes again. Several years ago during a Sunday school class, tis man in the class spouted off that anyone he saw going into a bar was a drunk. he went on to say that he would be very disappointed if he saw someone from his church entering a bar. I spoke up to add to the discussion because my profession (I was a probation officer at the time) occasionally took me into bars. So, in this man's mind I would be considered a drunk simply because he may see me entering a bar. He would not take the time to understand why I might be entering a bar.
That being said, whether in the bar for profesional reasons or to socialize with others, some of the deepest conversations pertaining to Christ and Christianity have taken place in bars. People I engage in bars note that there is something different. I'm a good conversationalist and can discuss many issues. They see something that piques their interest and ask questions to find out what makes me tick. I've been told many times that conversations with clients and friends in settings that may be frowned on by other Christians has actually got them thinking about salvation and eternity whereas most Christians they meet seem standoffish and judgmental.
If you aren't comfortable being around people drinking, don't go. But don't berate those who are comfortable. Seek first to understand, then be understood.
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The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/14/2008 8:20:22 AM
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deliveredarling
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I really don't see what the problem here is. Obviously this is a thread discussing the Christians and drinking. I have put my two cents worth in and am getting lambasted for it. now it's "pharasaiacal" because I don't go to bars and because I don't drink. People grow up. If I don"t drink what's it to you? If you do drink, what's it to me. Over and over on this thread I have repeated that it is a matter of choice. I have also stated that if you think it's a sin, then it's a sin for you. There are many, many things in this life that are going to be ok for others to do, but they are not ok for me. The same can be said for you in your lives. Call me what you will, I stand firm in my position.
Covaan, yes I would come to your Seder, however i would not participate in the drinking of the cup. BTW, just because alcohol is at a place does not mean it becomes like a bar. Bars have a certain charisma, a certain draw to them. Some people can handle alcohol responsibly in a public setting. Good for them. The people I have a problem with are those proclaimed Christians who are sitting in a bar getting toasted. i have repeated this same sentiment several times. Don't scream "I'm a Christian, then let the world shine through you.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/14/2008 9:54:17 AM
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martyfran
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
I really don't see what the problem here is. Obviously this is a thread discussing the Christians and drinking. I have put my two cents worth in and am getting lambasted for it. now it's "pharasaiacal" because I don't go to bars and because I don't drink. People grow up. If I don"t drink what's it to you? If you do drink, what's it to me. Over and over on this thread I have repeated that it is a matter of choice. I have also stated that if you think it's a sin, then it's a sin for you. There are many, many things in this life that are going to be ok for others to do, but they are not ok for me. The same can be said for you in your lives. Call me what you will, I stand firm in my position.
Now you are arguing that it can be ok for Christians to go to a bar? Before you said:
quote:
Going to a bar is a choice. Either one chooses to live a life honoring God in all that they do or they don't. Bar hopping is not honoring God IMHO.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/14/2008 10:10:07 AM
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deliveredarling
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I have advocated since I began posting on this thread:
James 4:17
"Therefore to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin".
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/14/2008 7:50:11 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
I have put my two cents worth in and am getting lambasted for it.
Darling, don't -- please don't! -- take anything personally! We're just discussing. Debate is a good thing, because it causes us to dig deeper than if we did as is popular in the world today: follow the old '60s statement of "I'm okay, you're okay." That was an ugly time we are repeating now, because few have the guts to stand up and say, "I disagree!"
We are a cyber-community all right, but we still have formed somewhat of a community. Your opinion is just as important as anyone else's, and it is worthy of being read.
So, if you come to the seder, sit with me! My husband and I neither drink the wine nor think anything of it when others at the table do, but we'll bring grape juice, and we'd be glad to share. In between the juice, we'll even share our sparkling grape juice!
I do want to write, however, that when you write statements like the one I wasn't going to bring up -- "Going to a bar is a choice. Either one chooses to live a life honoring God in all that they do or they don't." -- they come across as accusing. It appears that you are saying that those who go to bars are not living life-honoring lives. I have no idea what kind of lives they are living, darling, but if it is not in the Bible that people should not go to bars, then none of us should. It's just that it's not there. That's all.
It's kind of like the old church I used to attend, which condemned people for wearing wedding rings, for any kind of dancing, and women for wearing pants. One just cannot improve what G-d has already said.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/14/2008 8:46:22 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
if it is not in the Bible that people should not go to bars, then none of us should. It's just that it's not there. That's all.
The bible is silent on smoking too, but we know it doesn't honor God either..
I assure you that I'm not so offended as to run away. it takes a lot more than name calling for that 
Oh, I didn't expect you to "run away." 
But smoking doesn't honor God. Hm-m-m-m. Well, I have seen a lot of believers do a lot of things that don't honor G-d.
* Keep a library book too long: guilty
* Drive above the speed limit: guilty
* Eat too much chocolate: guilty
* Drink too much Sobe: guilty
* Drink too much Pepsi: guilty
* Be generous to the point of hurting another: guilty . . . .
So shall we all stop borrowing books, driving, eating, drinking, giving? There is a limit to everything, and too much of almost everything that exists is not honoring to G-d. Are we going to condemn everyone who smokes now? I don't think you meant that -- or I hope not.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/14/2008 8:50:25 PM
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ddave12000
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
if it is not in the Bible that people should not go to bars, then none of us should. It's just that it's not there. That's all.
The bible is silent on smoking too, but we know it doesn't honor God either..
I assure you that I'm not so offended as to run away. it takes a lot more than name calling for that
seriously? You had to go there? Well, I agree with Covaan so I won't repeat her.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/14/2008 9:01:24 PM
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deliveredarling
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I smoked for 17 years. I have only been quit for 7 days (has a lot to do with my uum, edgy comments). Do I think it honors God? Nope and yet I continued to do it....
Your point in me seriously having to go there is?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/14/2008 9:03:51 PM
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ddave12000
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
I smoked for 17 years. I have only been quit for 7 days (has a lot to do with my uum, edgy comments). Do I think it honors God? Nope and yet I continued to do it....
Your point in me seriously having to go there is?
Congratulations on quitting! Stick with it. I quit 8 years ago.
My point was that it's an unfortunate analogy to use in this thread as Covaan pointed out. I can be rather sarcastic at times and that was my sarcasm rearing it's head.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/14/2008 9:47:49 PM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
unfortunate analogy
????????????????
Why is that? Are they not remarkably similar issues?
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/14/2008 10:01:32 PM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
Oh, I didn't expect you to "run away."
But smoking doesn't honor God. Hm-m-m-m. Well, I have seen a lot of believers do a lot of things that don't honor G-d.
* Keep a library book too long: guilty
* Drive above the speed limit: guilty
* Eat too much chocolate: guilty
* Drink too much Sobe: guilty
* Drink too much Pepsi: guilty
* Be generous to the point of hurting another: guilty . . . .
So shall we all stop borrowing books, driving, eating, drinking, giving? There is a limit to everything, and too much of almost everything that exists is not honoring to G-d. Are we going to condemn everyone who smokes now? I don't think you meant that -- or I hope not.
I completely missed this post.
My point is not to condemn anyone. Smoking was not honoring God in MY life. It took me long enough to decide to give it up. Drinking, certainly did not honor God in my life, near death made me give it up.
I agree that everything has limits and nothing in excess, reasonableness. I just still can't think of a thing that honors God in a bar. I'm sure that there are things that I do everyday that do not honor God, however i do not wake up and intentionally decide to go and do those things. I don't want to dishonor God. I know people don't feel the same way as I do and that is ok. I don't condemn anyone who doesn't agree with me. I do shake my head though. I know a ministry leader who goes to bars on a regular basis to play music. This same guy is a "recovering alcoholic", yet feels he can drink, gets high, swings, and gambles all his families money away. Now, let me ask each of you, how any of this stuff this guy does honors God? I used to attend the church he served in. My husband, a new believer knows this man too and asked me about following God and if this is what Christians do. I'm not judging this man-his fruits are showing. i made a judgment call to leave that church.
We are accountable for our actions. We also never know who our actions might harm or help. I feel very strongly about this subject, obviously.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/14/2008 10:29:24 PM
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ddave12000
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
I know a ministry leader who goes to bars on a regular basis to play music. This same guy is a "recovering alcoholic", yet feels he can drink, gets high, swings, and gambles all his families money away. Now, let me ask each of you, how any of this stuff this guy does honors God?
The things this man is doing don't honor God. It sounds like he's got a lot more problems than going to bars.
Ironically, I found it somewhat funny and to my point that other than drinking, none of the other things you mentioned are even legal or okay to do in a bar, so this could be used to point out that bars aren't necessarily the problem...it's the condition of one's heart.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/14/2008 11:18:52 PM
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everythingat
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
That being said, whether in the bar for profesional reasons or to socialize with others, some of the deepest conversations pertaining to Christ and Christianity have taken place in bars. People I engage in bars note that there is something different. I'm a good conversationalist and can discuss many issues. They see something that piques their interest and ask questions to find out what makes me tick. I've been told many times that conversations with clients and friends in settings that may be frowned on by other Christians has actually got them thinking about salvation and eternity whereas most Christians they meet seem standoffish and judgmental.
Quoted for truth. After reading that, it clicked in my head that nearly all of the conversations I've had with non-Christians about God have been when they were drinking or in a bar. It does make sense, in these particular social settings, their inhibitions are lowered and they become vulnerable. Which leads them to open up about their feelings on God.
Then I thought about Christians. And the vast majority of conversations I have had with Christians in a social setting, like eating dinner in a restaurant...they haven't been about God at all. If anything, they're usually about what the church is doing, and how the members are. I don't think that shows where Christians' priorities are at...it just means they have found what they are looking for. Non-Christians have not. When these conversations are brought up during their drinking, it is a sign that they haven't given up searching.
Note that I didn't say "drunk." Drinking, as in the first few beers. Before the alcohol really takes its toll and they become a belligerent five year-old.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/15/2008 8:03:27 AM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
Ironically, I found it somewhat funny and to my point that other than drinking, none of the other things you mentioned are even legal or okay to do in a bar, so this could be used to point out that bars aren't necessarily the problem...it's the condition of one's heart.
Excellent point about the condition of one's heart. However, sin is sneaky and deceptive. It's so sneaky and deceptive that we become blind to it. We start hearing messages in our heads telling us this is ok or that is ok or even twisting something so badly to make it fit our fleshly desires. I think bars do that. We start caving on our convictions, "just this once", "well I went last time and nothing bad happened". Our choices have everything to do with whether we sin or honor God.
My point with the smoking aspect: No the Bible doesn't speak directly to bars. It doesn't speak directly to smoking either. We can attach verses to get a an idea how He feels about it. Saying He doesn't speak to it, is a justification to just keep doing it. (I did that with smoking...)
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/15/2008 10:49:16 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Well, I've learned a few things from this thread. I am so totally ignorant of alcohol and its effects that i feel really stupid about it. I thought, for example, two beers would make the average person very drunk. No wonder I never could get even a buzz, back in the days when I tried, when I was 20 or so. That stuff tasted so bad that I never got past half of a can. And when I tried the harder stuff, it was worse, and I still never got a buzz. I really don't know how people do it.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/15/2008 10:57:08 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
The Bible is clear that drinking wine is not sin.
Agreed
Thanks
RC
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Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/15/2008 11:07:31 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
You see the bar is a place of worldliness. How do i die to self if I keep clothing myself in the world rather than righteousness?
I have to give up me in order for there to be more of Him.
I read that passage a couple of times and just don't see where you get "the bar is a place of worldliness." I've been in bars (years ago), had nothing but cokes, and didn't hit on or oogle women. One of my grandfathers was an alcoholic that never went to bars and usually had him a girlfriend went he wen on a binge. Which of the two of us would you call worldly?
I've known more drunks that didn't drink in bars than those that went to bars to get drunk.
What if, just what if, giving up me includes following Jesus' command for me to go into a bar to talk with lost souls about Him?
There is, according to scripture, a difference in being worldly and being in worldly places. We'd almost have to live in a church santuary 24/7 to avoid going to worldly places.
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