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celebratejesus911 -> On Accountability (7/5/2008 10:02:33 AM)

I understand/believe that God is who we are ultimately accountable to. But I also believe that the bible is full of verses telling us that we need to "fellowship" with others of our "species" LOL, for many reasons. Just one of them being to be held accountable, be admonished. I will put just one verse I believe pertains:
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
I have a friend that knows the bible front to back, even breaks the words down and comes up with all these meanings which I am not putting down. We had a dispute when I asked if she was "accountable" to anyone, friends, pastor, any trusted christian elder(I don't mean older, just another follower of Christ that we "see the fruits in" and trust). Anyway, she told me she did not need to be accountable to anyone but Christ, that and because I had mentioned humility many times, she said humility is a sign of weakness. I understand that it is in one respect, a good one in my opinion. If I am weak, God can be strong in me. More of Him, less of me. I believe there are and never have been any true-believer, lone-ranger christians. Or atleast I don't see where Jesus taught that.

Any feedback on this subject is appreciated. God bless your weekend! And praise God for the independence we do still have:)



AprilMtns -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 10:07:28 AM)

Excellent question! I'm looking forward to reading this thread.

[:)]



celebratejesus911 -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 10:19:35 AM)

morning april, I love your nic. Never heard one like that:) Yes, I am really interested because even though I had read the verses and believed the Holy Spirit directed me correctly in their meaning, I was doubting:( If I am wrong, I certainly want to know. I learn something new every day and I am glad I do as life could get pretty boring if I already knew everything, LOL!! God bless,



sunofone -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 11:16:46 AM)

I hope you'll forgive me in advance for taking the op and running wild with it.It's just that it speaks to me on so many levels.I have some brothers and sisters in Christ who I hold in high esteem,that feel they no longer need the organized Church.

In fact they feel that the church is somewhat apostate,that is as a whole it is akin with the Synagogue of Paul's day,where the truth of God is despised,and has become leavened with the teaching of men.They go as far as to quote they scripture of being cast out of the church.Does come out from among them ring a bell?

Anyway,they all meet on forums such as this,but not this forum in particular.I have had conversations with them,where I honestly understand where they are coming from.I mean if we're all being honest we all feel this way not necessarily about church as a whole,but certainly some churches out there.

Case in point,if you do not subscribe to the wof movement,chances are pretty good you wouldn't rush to go to one of their services,much less make your membership there.

If you don't believe in the charismatic movement,I.E. speaking in tongues and the like,same scenario,etc...My dear brothers have just taken it to the extreme,and ruled every organized movement out.

So they like your friend believe that they are only accountable to Christ,which is another way of saying themselves,since no man has the ability to check them.

Now I say that while each of us much eventually come to a place where we are to stand on our own spiritual feet,that we still need each other.I further believe that God has set up a structure for the maturing of his body,and this structure is the church,as described in the NT.

While every church in existence falls short of the idea,don't we all? I mean I know I don't know everything,I don't have the keys to every doctrine.I'm still learning/growing.As I grow I find I discard one thing I held true for something I find to be true today.

So if I'm still learning,and if I'm not perfect,I don't know how I could expect the church to be.Last time I checked the church was full of people just like me right?

So imho I think your friend is ego tripping,and is quite frankly deceived.No man is an Island,even Paul after he received his revelation,though he got it from no man eventually conferred with the brethren,beginning with Peter,and eventually James.Galatians 2 .9

And when James,Cephas and John,who seemed to be pillars,perceived the grace that was given unto me,they gave me the right hands of fellowship,that we should go unto the Gentiles,they unto the circumcision.

Galatians 1 vs 15-16 But when it pleased God,who separated me from my mother's womb,and called me by his grace,To reveal his Son in me,that I might preach him among the Gentiles,immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood;

So how she or anyone else can claim to eat stolen bread is imho an act of gross deception.I'm quite sure as gifted as she may very well be,she has not had God privately instruct her as he did Paul,and even if he did,which he clearly has not,she would still at some point need to share her stolen bread with others,at which point she would have to held accountable with the witness God has left us,which is his word.

I understand how people like her get off on Islands like this,I myself was on my self imposed Island of Patmos,ego tripping,but thanks be to God he placed me in a ship that led me back to my brothers.

Just pray for her,is what I'd recommend,because I can assure you their is nothing you could say that could get her down from her tree she's firmly perched in.God can get her down though!



Liveloved -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 11:34:09 AM)

Yes, I agree with the others, a very worthwhile topic.

I believe we really know little of the kind of accountability that was
shared among the first century believers. In I Thessalonians, the Apostle Paul says, "But we proved to be gentle among you, as a nursing mother tenderly cares for her own children. Having thus a fond affection for you, we were well-pleased to impart to you not only the gospel of God but also our own lives, because you have become very dear to us."

He continues that he wasn't a burden to any of them but worked night and day. . . "just as you know how we were exhorting and encouraging and imploring each one of you as a father would his own children, so that you may walk in a manner worthy of the God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory."

Sharing your lives with others is living together as family (not necessarily communal living), walking before one another, working along side one another, continual fellowship around God's word and desiring to walk as Jesus walked. That means you want the kind of openness and honest fellowship that one has with a mother/father/family figure.

That is what I believe the Lord wants for us because it is the environment that 'grows Christians'. Do we have it? Very little. I have a few people who I have that kind of fellowship with and I'm thankful for that.

I would like to speak to your thoughts re: humility. I think you and your friend are misunderstanding what humility is. Jesus was humble and very much taught we are to be humble as well. The word humble does not mean weak. It means meek. And the best illustration of that word is meeking a horse---a horse is strong, has incredible strength and power, but when it is 'meeked', it is brought under control. So controlled strength is the definition of meek. The Sermon on the Mount says blessed are the meek. Jesus' style of leadership, taking the towel, was meekness, humility. Philippians 2, the description of the attitude that was in Jesus, is perhaps the best illustration of what meekness is/does/looks like.

I am accountable to Jesus but I am also accountable to my husband and to my friends/brothers and sisters in Christ. I desire to be corrected, edified, and helped through that kind of loving feedback. Though hard at times, it is the path through which I die to self and His life reigns in me.

Thanks for asking such a thoughtprovoking question!

Edited to add:

Independence has become a part of our problem in this society.



Machaira -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 12:08:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celebratejesus911

But I also believe that the bible is full of verses telling us that we need to "fellowship" with others of our "species" LOL, for many reasons.


Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Jud 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.


quote:

ORIGINAL: celebratejesus911

Anyway, she told me she did not need to be accountable to anyone but Christ


Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Heb 13:24 Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you.

1Th 5:12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you . . .

1Ti 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.



celebratejesus911 -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 12:17:54 PM)

Wow, were we separated at birth, LOL! I so understood everything you said. Thank you so much. I myself am not in church these days because to be honest, I felt I was, maybe, being drawn elsewhere. The bible says something about there will come a time when we won't worship in churches/synagogues. That may be totally off topic if I am misunderstanding the meaning. I am finding I can fellowship here and still be following Christ and His commands. I am no loner, nor do I want to be. I need other chrisitians for many reason, think I mentioned that. Jesus even kept almost constant company with His disciples and many other folks He called friends eventually. He didn't need to be accountable but I believe this is one of the many ways He was showing us how to "travel", with others, whether in church(bldg)or not. IMHO the churches of today are no darn different than the ones Paul admonished, and some are full of "pharisees" that Jesus, John the Baptist and others rebuked. I have been all those "opposites" of Christ. I recognize it. I am not perfect and do not place myself higher, but I press on to become the woman God wants me to be, die to self and live for Him.

God bless you for your post, I look forward to many opportunities to learn from you and share:)



celebratejesus911 -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 12:19:00 PM)

Forgive you, Im grateful as I see God is the One who sent you:) your sister in Christ, denise



celebratejesus911 -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 12:30:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Liveloved

quote:

I would like to speak to your thoughts re: humility. I think you and your friend are misunderstanding what humility is. Jesus was humble and very much taught we are to be humble as well. The word humble does not mean weak. It means meek. And the best illustration of that word is meeking a horse---a horse is strong, has incredible strength and power, but when it is 'meeked', it is brought under control. So controlled strength is the definition of meek. The Sermon on the Mount says blessed are the meek. Jesus' style of leadership, taking the towel, was meekness, humility. Philippians 2, the description of the attitude that was in Jesus, is perhaps the best illustration of what meekness is/does/looks like.


I don't know about my friend(that's between her and the Lord) but I am definitely with you on humility. I can't recall this second, but I thought I wrote where "she felt humility was a sign of weakness" where I see at as a type of weakness, a good one, if I am weak, then the Lord can be strong in me. So I see that type of weakness as strength. I think we are on the same page:) Who can keep up with every word on these forums. God bless and am so happy to meet others here I can truly relate with, your sister in Christ, denise



mvic -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 12:52:40 PM)

I suspect many will disagree with me.

When Paul (and others) wrote their letters to the early churches they addressed problems and matters that happened then. It does not follow however that everything they wrote appertains to our churches today or to our modern societies.

You're right - we are ultimately accountable to God alone. You're right - we need fellowship with other Christians in order to share our experiences and learn from them.

It does not follow however that we are in any way accountable to them or that we should be admonished by them when we err.

I have seen many Christians "poking their nose" in other people's business with the intention of "admonishing" them and "leading them to the true path". Instead, they often manage to do more harm than good and drive good Christians away to another church.



AprilDiamond1952 -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 12:55:46 PM)

Hello Denise, I fianlly made it here. Thank you for telling me about this site. Will be posting soon as I get my thought together. LOL Love you sis in the Lord Jesus.
Char (aw man, there's no roses) :( Have to talk to them about that now. LOL [sm=hug.gif]



celebratejesus911 -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 1:58:32 PM)

Thank you, excellent!!!!!!! This post is not about running to her and saying, Im right Im right. It is truly about asking help for my own need to be sure:)

Love to all, your sister in Christ, denise

I told her these things I believe, including some of the same verses, and I was kind and loving but she did not chose to listen. It is about God's timing and also, Im the messenger in this case and I just need to leave the results to God:) I am so glad, again, to be finding other believers in Christ. Praise God and I thank Him for answering my prayer to find fellowship on the road less travelled:)



celebratejesus911 -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 2:02:28 PM)

Alright, so glad you are here Char. Folks, God put char in my life in that other "religious" site and thank Him for that. I told her I found this one so here we both are now.

Thank you all and look forward to lots of learning and shraring Him:) love to all, denise



celebratejesus911 -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 2:12:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mvic

I suspect many will disagree with me.

When Paul (and others) wrote their letters to the early churches they addressed problems and matters that happened then. It does not follow however that everything they wrote appertains to our churches today or to our modern societies.

You're right - we are ultimately accountable to God alone. You're right - we need fellowship with other Christians in order to share our experiences and learn from them.

It does not follow however that we are in any way accountable to them or that we should be admonished by them when we err.

I have seen many Christians "poking their nose" in other people's business with the intention of "admonishing" them and "leading them to the true path". Instead, they often manage to do more harm than good and drive good Christians away to another church.


I understand what you are saying. I personally believe that all in the bible applies to us as well. The reason I see it that way is because God didn't just send the Word(including the written Word)for just those folks. If He did not, it puts us "mod" folks in a dangerous position of "still" searching for "our" Truth. God hasn't changed nor has His Word, imho.

About your last paragraph, I so understand the frustration in someone that is not "gifted" in being a spiritual leader, even a friend can be a spiritual leader for us, I believe. Christians are not perfect as we all know, and we all need to ask the Lord where and what He wants us to do in His Service. Some jump in with "good intentions". Need I say more, LOL! But, I am learning to look at those in our faith that are following Christ and try not to be hard on others making mistakes, as I try not to be hard on myself when I make one.

In fact, to be honest, this is what aggravated me about my friend. She was telling everyone else how to "do it" but there was no sign of "the fruit of the Spirit". If we are following Christ, we will see fruit in others and maybe even in ourselves, but no boasting right:)

God bless, and thank you for your input. your sister in Christ, denise



rcjames -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 3:27:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celebratejesus911

We had a dispute when I asked if she was "accountable" to anyone, friends, pastor, any trusted christian elder(I don't mean older, just another follower of Christ that we "see the fruits in" and trust). Anyway, she told me she did not need to be accountable to anyone but Christ, that and because I had mentioned humility many times, she said humility is a sign of weakness.


I would tend to believe thaqt your frined is consumed with arrogance and religiosity by her reported statements.

Way too many Scriptures about accountability and humility to ignore them in our walk with God.

Please note what Christ says;

(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

So to ignore accountability and humility is to ignore Christ and try to elevate ourselves to something we can never be.

Thanks
RC



Liveloved -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 3:27:56 PM)

quote:

It does not follow however that we are in any way accountable to them or that we should be admonished by them when we err.

I have seen many Christians "poking their nose" in other people's business with the intention of "admonishing" them and "leading them to the true path". Instead, they often manage to do more harm than good and drive good Christians away to another church.


Granted we probably all have seen the busybody but that is no reason to ignore an important part of body life. Matthew 7 clearly says to first take the log out of your own eye (and this is the part people fail to do) AND THEN you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. If you want to read what I consider to be the best discussion of how this is done, read Roy Hession's, The Calvary Road, as he does an excellent job of describing this process.

There are just too many verses that tell us to admonish, edify, exhort, encourage, or stimulate one another within the body to think this is not for today. It is necessary and needful. And if you know the meanings of those words, you will find that this often is not a gentle process.

But it is so important. I'm sorry it is often done in the flesh, quite carnally. My experience has been that even when done gently in tears and with great love (and not from a distance but from a close personal friend) and following long periods of prayer, it is often perceived as carnal because the flesh does not want to receive such a message. The flesh wars against the Spirit. But that does not mean we do not live as Christ has commanded us. It means that we do it and are willing to bear the consequences.

And to denise, I'm looking forward to getting to know you too![:)]



deliveredarling -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 3:50:56 PM)

We are to be accountable to others in our Christian walks. If we are not, we allow deception to come in. Let me give an example that happened to me in real life, I was listening to this preacher. I followed him for almost a year. Everything looked good, sounded good, for awhile. During this time, I am also studying, researching and completely stuck in the Bible. This preacher decided that he was going to preach on a certain topic. Not only did he preach it lacking the truth, he also preached this message to tickle the ears of the congregation. He only preached half of the story. The fruits of his preaching were evident in the lives of the members. I began questioning him and providing scripture references. he refused to preach the Truth, even when faced with it in black, white and red. He refused to be accountable to his congregation. I left very saddened. I very much felt the need to ask him about his sermons because he was leading people astray. he preached a feel good religion.
This is what accountability is all about-Truth, not your truth, or my truth, but THE TRUTH as revealed in the Bible. Teachers and preachers are held to a higher standard, and will be held accountable to God for what they teach and preach. If we are not teaching and preaching the truth, somebody does need to call us on it. Souls depend on it.

On the other hand, we are responsible for our own instruction as well. had I not been studying, I might have missed the deception!

Our churches are running in the formats that they are because people are not using the accountablity factor. Nobody wants to offend anyone, even if it means the loss of souls. If more accountability was happening, the less our churches would be full of deception.

I fully understand your friends position. I was there many for many years. However, God opened my eyes for the need for fellowship, my need for Truth. I am so glad that He did.

Just to set the record straight here, accountability is not being a busybody, minding everyone's business. We are not to go around sticking our nose around being the sin police. We are to be Truth seekers.



celebratejesus911 -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 4:49:39 PM)

Well this country gal is more than willing to listen up when a country preacher speaks:) Thank you for contributing and thank you for allowing God to use you.

God bless, your sister in Christ, denise



celebratejesus911 -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 4:54:16 PM)

I feel the same, about getting to know you and many on this thread. I am so amazed(that seems so silly after All He has done in my life)to find such a great site after searching for quite some time. I know that no place is perfect and if it was?? As soon as I get there it wouldn't be perfect anymore, LOL!!

God bless, your sister in Christ, denise



celebratejesus911 -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 4:56:03 PM)

PS LIVELOVED! I am checking out The Calvary Road. It sounds like it could be another God-sent:)

ysic, denise



celebratejesus911 -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 5:00:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deliveredarling

We are to be accountable to others in our Christian walks. If we are not, we allow deception to come in. Let me give an example that happened to me in real life, I was listening to this preacher. I followed him for almost a year. Everything looked good, sounded good, for awhile. During this time, I am also studying, researching and completely stuck in the Bible. This preacher decided that he was going to preach on a certain topic. Not only did he preach it lacking the truth, he also preached this message to tickle the ears of the congregation. He only preached half of the story. The fruits of his preaching were evident in the lives of the members. I began questioning him and providing scripture references. he refused to preach the Truth, even when faced with it in black, white and red. He refused to be accountable to his congregation. I left very saddened. I very much felt the need to ask him about his sermons because he was leading people astray. he preached a feel good religion.
This is what accountability is all about-Truth, not your truth, or my truth, but THE TRUTH as revealed in the Bible. Teachers and preachers are held to a higher standard, and will be held accountable to God for what they teach and preach. If we are not teaching and preaching the truth, somebody does need to call us on it. Souls depend on it.

On the other hand, we are responsible for our own instruction as well. had I not been studying, I might have missed the deception!

Our churches are running in the formats that they are because people are not using the accountablity factor. Nobody wants to offend anyone, even if it means the loss of souls. If more accountability was happening, the less our churches would be full of deception.

I fully understand your friends position. I was there many for many years. However, God opened my eyes for the need for fellowship, my need for Truth. I am so glad that He did.

Just to set the record straight here, accountability is not being a busybody, minding everyone's business. We are not to go around sticking our nose around being the sin police. We are to be Truth seekers.

Amen, I so got chills when I read this. I know that the Holy Spirit allows me to see Jesus in others and I have seen Him soooooooooooo much today. Praise His Holy Name and thank God for the internet, LOL! Im stuck at home way in the country as I may have already mentioned but in His wonderful provision, here I am fellowshipping with His kids, God bless you and ALL here:) denise, ysic

PS and look what He does?? I say Im stuck but I am learning more about me in the last few months than I ever have before. I have been in His Word soooooooooo much I can't "not" read it now. The adversities in my life have brought me closer to Him. I just finished a book called "How to handle adversity" by Charles Stanley. I learned a lot from that book as well:)



Strategon -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 8:23:43 PM)

one of the predominant themes of the Bible is God building for Himself a people. You can see through all the New Testament language like we are "being built a spiritual house.."; we are a royal priesthood; in fact even the word Ecclesia means assembly and describes a group not a single. My personal relationship with God, My personal devlotions, my this my that..are only concepts that are as bout as old as America, meaning they are relatively new to Chrisitanity. The simple truth is we don't fully express our walk with God outside of the context of the rest of the body. Look at how much is written in scripture on how to relate to others in the body of Christ.

But here is an interesting thought. Scripture only has a few requirements for what constitutes "church". So to insinuate that a person who is not part of the "organized" church (that cracks me up), is forsaking assembling, etc.. That is reaching a little far. In fact, the scriptures leave alot of room for how we express Christianity in the context of "assembling ourselves". I know a lot of people also who have left the traditional church subculture for more organic expressions of assembly and they thriving both in bearing fruit for Christ and maturity.



celebratejesus911 -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 9:01:09 PM)

To Strategon:

I have to be honest here but I have believed for some time, that maybe it is coming to that "time" when Jesus said we would no longer worship in synagogues or churches?? I may be wrong here but I am sure there is verse on it. But the meaning of the verse I could have wrong. I have been on forums for the last 3 months and I have never been in more fellowship, and I have never been driven to read the Word more just to stay on my toes with all the false-teaching and false-doctrine, etc etc. All I want is Him to use me. And I didn't have to "get good enough" for Him to use me. He has used me more, now that I have basically, no worldly possessions, LOL:) Well, I still have a puter, wheels, clothing, food, roof over my head:)

I am not saying there are not decent churches as I believe there are, and I know there are born-again christians in all of the churches with biblical doctrine. I just have found myself drifting from the "building" but not from the Lord or the Body of Christ. I also feel I have served Him more in the last 2 years. And I have never been more broke financially, and without ways or means to support myself. I was in a shelter for 3 months. Now God has provided a country home(32 foot trailer with tilt-out)and an elderly couple that seem to just love me like a daughter. They need me to help them. I couldn't get an accounting/clerical job and I was crying and yelling at God wondering why??? Then all this comes into my life. But we as christians know what we are facing, the bible tells all. But ultimately, we have that "happy ending" few in the world believe in. Heaven, eternal life.

Wow, did I wander off-track or what, don't answer that, LOL!!!

God bless, your sister in Christ, denise
PS I don't think I am lukewarm anymore:) and I was for years:(



Dana1956 -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 9:56:08 PM)

Hello Denise,
Interesting topic, stopped by to say Hi.



celebratejesus911 -> RE: On Accountability (7/5/2008 10:12:08 PM)

I think it is more than interesting dana, hope you will join in. Many firm believers here and their input has solidified my reasons for leaving the other site. We are either walking in the Light of the Lord, or we are not, there is no middle ground.

God bless, denise



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