Why did Jesus have to die? (Full Version)

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JordanB -> Why did Jesus have to die? (7/3/2008 11:28:21 AM)

Hi, everyone. I know that I appear to ask some unusual questions than disappear. But, I do read all your answers. Why I posted this question was to look for answers to the question of why He had to die. The logic of a person possing this question is why would an omnipotent and omniscient God use the death of Jesus as the only way to salvation. I hope you understand this



bob97 -> RE: Why did Jesus have to die? (7/3/2008 2:47:58 PM)

quote:

I hope you understand this


Not really!

Do you understand who Christ was? He was God in the flesh, who cared enough about the people of this world that He Himself went to the cross that we might have an opportunity of deliverance from damnation. Why did God demand a blood penalty for the removal of sin from the human life…well I guess the best answer was…that is the way He wanted it. God paid the price so why are you complaining?

Bob



loveineffable -> RE: Why did Jesus have to die? (7/3/2008 3:20:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JordanB

Hi, everyone. I know that I appear to ask some unusual questions than disappear. But, I do read all your answers. Why I posted this question was to look for answers to the question of why He had to die. The logic of a person possing this question is why would an omnipotent and omniscient God use the death of Jesus as the only way to salvation. I hope you understand this



IMO
Sin brought death, and death needed to be dealt with. So sin had to be dealt with once and for all in the spirit of God the Father. So God the Son went forth and did exactly, that dealt with sin, seperating death from it.
For God the Son (Jesus Christ) was and is the only one perfect to have walked this earth.
So all sin was put upon him, taking it away from his Father's sight.
So after the ressurection, and ascension, he could send the comforter (God THe Holy Spirit) into us. The ones that believe, (Changed our minds from unbelief to belief)
For this could not have happened w/o first the death (taking away of sin in The Father's Spirit). so he could live in one, through The Holy Spirit.
For God knows no sin and can not bear it, so in order to guide one, The sin issue had to be dealt with, and it was at the cross. The last shedding of blood. No more forgiveness to be executed.

Now also, ther was need for a new covenant to be put in place. Hebrews 9:15, read on, really read all of hebrews. But this is where it is stated there was a new covenant put in place, at the death of the testator.
The will (covenant) was not in effect until the death of Christ, and proof of that death, ushering in a new covenant, where God the Father will now deal with you on the basis of a new nature, all sins are forgiven before anyone here was born. It was at the cross. So please start appreciating that and trusting God The Father in this new covenant to teach how to walk circumspectly with his Spirit

Another look at this the tyrant (the Devil) who was a complainer, approching God The Father, accusing mankind of their deeds. Complaining why are you having mercy on this one or that one. You did not have mercy on me
I did not obey, they do not and you are protecting them. the law says. the laws says, and on and on.

So God the Father whom is not a tyrant, chose to have mercy on all. leaving only one thing left, one free choice just like back at the garden. To believe or not believe (theirs was eat of and you will die) Ours is eat of him (Jesus Christ) and live forever.
The only place for forgivenss is at the cross where it was finished, sin in the Fathers' Spirit has been dealt with, so one can come to him unafraid and learn of and in him. To put sin on any other foundation would be unconcious blasphemy.

W/o the death, and the perfection of Jesus fulfilling the old covenant we the believers would still be viewed from God in our sins and we would have to die for sin. And we would all already be dead if that was the case.
So instead of taking advantage of this great gift, let us appreciate it , thanking god for his mercy and then walk in it ourselves. but all this takes faith, trust, and belief in the creator of all.

Jesus came to fullfill the law and prophets: Matt 5:17, he did this while on earth, full filling his Fathers' will
He then said he did it, in the words It is Finished in John 19:30. Then it is testified that we are in a new covenant Hebrews 9:15 onward read.

Bottom line: I think we need to respond to God just loves us period. It is not about the nasty nines and dirty dozen anylonger. It is about responding to this unconditional love and thus loving our neighbor the same as we have been loved by God himself.

Love ineffable



Machaira -> RE: Why did Jesus have to die? (7/3/2008 4:02:08 PM)

quote:

Why did Jesus have to die?


The reason -

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death . . .

Eze 18:20 The soul who sins shall die.

The remedy -

Mat 20:28 even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

Heb 9:28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

1Jn 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Jn 4:10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.


I could multiply verses just like these, but I think you get the point. God made it clear from the very beginning that the wages of sin would be death. That being the case, you can pay the penalty yourself of eternal condemnation or accept the provision of a substitute by faith.

Ususally the next question is: Why can't God just forgive sin? The answer comes from the nature or attributes of God. God has many attributes such as love and mercy, but God is also righteous and just. As one who is infinitely righteous and just, God will not allow sin to go unpunished.


Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.



JordanB -> RE: Why did Jesus have to die? (7/3/2008 4:28:06 PM)

Thank-you for your thoughtful response. I was attempting to find an answer to a question asked of me and was not really sure how to proceed.



JordanB -> RE: Why did Jesus have to die? (7/3/2008 4:30:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97

quote:

I hope you understand this


Not really!

Do you understand who Christ was? He was God in the flesh, who cared enough about the people of this world that He Himself went to the cross that we might have an opportunity of deliverance from damnation. Why did God demand a blood penalty for the removal of sin from the human life…well I guess the best answer was…that is the way He wanted it. God paid the price so why are you complaining?

Bob


I am not complaining. Just trying to find a Biblical answer to a friend's question. Maybe I should stop asking these types of questions here?



mvic -> RE: Why did Jesus have to die? (7/3/2008 4:37:44 PM)

Let's try to answer the question "Why did Jesus have to die?" from a different perspective.

When God created man (us) and loved us, we chose to sin instead and turn away from Him.

Sure, God could have chosen another method to correct us away from sin. He could have used His might to crush us down into submission. Any sinner would have been destroyed into nothing as an example to others. That would have achieved total obedience and respect.

You know, some parents do bring up their children this way, even today. But is it really the way to gain respect and obedience? Through fear?

Instead, as a loving Father, God chose to send His only Son to earth. To get to know us. Talk to us - human to human. And ultimately, to sacrifice Himself for us. But don't forget the important bit - He was also raised from the dead by God to overcome evil once and for all.

Through His death and resurrection, we are invited to join in and become a part of the family of God.

Sadly, many still say "No thanks".



mvic -> RE: Why did Jesus have to die? (7/3/2008 4:39:08 PM)

Please Jordan,

Don't stop asking questions. It is through questions that we learn.



JordanB -> RE: Why did Jesus have to die? (7/3/2008 4:42:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mvic

Let's try to answer the question "Why did Jesus have to die?" from a different perspective.

When God created man (us) and loved us, we chose to sin instead and turn away from Him.

Sure, God could have chosen another method to correct us away from sin. He could have used His might to crush us down into submission. Any sinner would have been destroyed into nothing as an example to others. That would have achieved total obedience and respect.

You know, some parents do bring up their children this way, even today. But is it really the way to gain respect and obedience? Through fear?

Instead, as a loving Father, God chose to send His only Son to earth. To get to know us. Talk to us - human to human. And ultimately, to sacrifice Himself for us. But don't forget the important bit - He was also raised from the dead by God to overcome evil once and for all.

Through His death and resurrection, we are invited to join in and become a part of the family of God.

Sadly, many still say "No thanks".


The free-will of man or total submission. A very good answer



bob97 -> RE: Why did Jesus have to die? (7/3/2008 8:19:47 PM)

quote:

I am not complaining. Just trying to find a Biblical answer to a friend's question. Maybe I should stop asking these types of questions here?


Sorry...I didn't mean to sound rude...must have been a bad moment.[8|]


Bob



terryjohn -> RE: Why did Jesus have to die? (7/12/2008 4:09:32 PM)

The problem is not with God in the sense that God required nothing from men to win His forgiveness. Some suggest that Chirsts death in someway paid for our salvation but I am opposed to the idea that (except that it did cost God something but certainly not men that they should boast of it) God needed something from men and this coupled with the fact that Christ is God also complicates matters for as God, Christ was sent to witness God's good will towards men in the first place. Hence, His birth was truely a sign of God's good will towards men even before His death.

God's Love needs no winning by any man and it certainly does not demand payment for percieved wrong for love gives freely what the law demands payment for. Now Christ could have stayed and lived two thousand years but I fear we would have all grown complaicent and our justified damnation made certain through it, hence, the need for faith, for if we are but faithfull by faith, how much more would we be by sight and liberation of our souls from these tombs of flesh?

Here then is the infinite value of the death of Christ. It was a sacrifice that God did not need but for the sake of mens accustions and for the sole benefit of men, Christ submitted to our weaknesses so that every tongue should be stilled and all men may be assured that God exists and what His glory, justice and love look like. From that time on, no man had a valid accusation against the love and will of God. For prior to this men believed their rituals, their religon and own self righteousness would sustain them. For too long men asked where is God and why does He not come to us and show us clearly who He is and what He requires of us?

And all of a sudden God came in the flesh and we hated Him and nailed Him to a cross and thereby condemed ourselves as sinners but in doing so God got our attention and showed through Christs death and ressurrection that He is in control and that by faith we have access to His glory and freedom from the fear of the law of sin and death. We now stand assured of God's good will towards us in that, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Now if God be for us, who can be against us?



OleFitzHi -> RE: Why did Jesus have to die? (7/17/2008 11:39:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JordanB

Hi, everyone. I know that I appear to ask some unusual questions than disappear. But, I do read all your answers. Why I posted this question was to look for answers to the question of why He had to die. The logic of a person possing this question is why would an omnipotent and omniscient God use the death of Jesus as the only way to salvation. I hope you understand this


Quite a good question!

I think it's about God upholding His reputation for justice. He would not be just to let sin go unpunished. It's like with raising kids. If you say something to them, you better mean it! If not, they won't respect you. God said, "Don't!" and we do. He says, "Do!" and we won't. So He has to get tough. He had already set the tone by expelling Satan and the demons when they sinned. He could not go soft on mankind or He might be accused of favoritism. So He was obliged to wipe us out. However, due to His compassionate nature, He took the punishment on Himself through the death of Jesus.



apostolic862004 -> RE: Why did Jesus have to die? (7/23/2008 5:23:57 PM)

I believe you can answer that question in more than one way using the scriptures. But let me give you one that I have not seen here yet.

Heb 9:22 states that without the sheding of blood, there is no remission of sins. Someone or something had to shed blood for our sins to be remitted. It should have been us.

In the old testament, animals were sacrificed but their blood only rolled sins back for 1 year. ( Heb 10:1-4) So it had to be a human that died for our sins. The only problem is that it had to be a sinless human and we have all sinned. The only one capable of being that perfect sacrifice was God himself. But God is a spirit. (4:24) And spirits to do not have blood. So how could God die? Simple answer: In the body of the man, Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:19 says that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself. How was he reconciling the world unto himself? He shed is blood and made a way for us to be with him.

That is one reason why he chose the death of Jesus Christ as the only way of salvation.



Gloryandgrace -> RE: Why did Jesus have to die? (8/1/2008 9:12:48 PM)

Hello JordanB:

Theologians love these kind of questions and there are some good books written on the subject.

A great book on the Atonement by John Murray http://www.alibris.com/booksearch.detail?invid=9554848440&qwork=5605148&qsort=p&page=1
Redemption accomplished and applied.

Im not advertising, just giving a resource.

When we ask the question Why did Jesus have to die? That is part of another question that looms out there. Is there another way for God to have redeemed sinful mankind?

The answer is seen in the preparatory works of God by the law. We find that the levitical practise of sacrifice is patterned after things done in heaven. So we begin to understand that what types and shadows were done in the Old testament of making atonement or expiation for sins is taken from the real substance known already in heaven.

Jesus Christ died on that Cross because it was exactly what God intended and purposed to do from the foundation of the world. In fact long before the world was created we were 'chosen in Christ". In the fulness of time God sent His Son to redeem his people. Jesus Chris is the true substance of salvation. His Cross is not type and shadow it is the revelation of the Love God has for mankind. When God decided to say "I love you" He said it by the cross in the offering up of His own Son. God Holiness demanded nothing less, God's law required what was due from all of us; and in Christ The law requiring justice and God's holiness requiring our obedience were met with the perfect obedience of Christ's live and the justice of the law exacted out its demands upon a willing and obedient sacrifice.

This was in the mind of God from the Beginning. God determined from the beginning that His Son must be slain even before sin was in the world. In the right time God revealed that reality to the whole world and now we know that God had the answer planned before the question was asked.

John



haggismuncher -> RE: Why did Jesus have to die? (8/6/2008 8:29:08 AM)

recently i read a little book called "Garabandal La Salette and love"

in it Jesus said "if the world could hear me scream in My Pain for the sins of the world then not another voice would speak not another word would be spoken and no one would ever sin against Me again"

Jesus said: “My people, I have told you that he, who receives My Body and Blood, will have eternal life. In order to receive My spiritual food for your soul, you need to attend Sunday Mass. Sunday Mass is not only a requirement for worship in My Church, but it is your only way to be completely united with Me intimately with your soul.

When you receive Me in Holy Communion, you can feel the tingling of a taste of heaven. I am the joy of your life, and it is My peace of grace that you need to guard in your soul from any evil. This experience of My love is why many come to receive Me every day in daily Mass. Give praise and glory to Me that you have the opportunity for Mass in your churches. Once you stop praying and fall away from going to Sunday Mass, then you are giving up your roots and means to show Me your love.

This life is passing away, but your soul lives on forever and you need to keep feeding and nourishing your soul. Do not be spiritually lazy, and do not let the devil distract you from Me by the curiosities of the world. This life is your preparation for coming to heaven, so let My angels protect you and lead you to prayer so you can always be close to Me in your heart. I do not force My love upon you. You have a choice to be with Me in love and eternal peace in heaven, or you can choose to be with Satan in hate and eternal suffering in hell. So take the narrow road to My love, even if you must suffer persecution in this life when you proclaim My Word.”



Ezra -> RE: Why did Jesus have to die? (8/7/2008 2:00:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JordanB

Hi, everyone. I know that I appear to ask some unusual questions than disappear. But, I do read all your answers. Why I posted this question was to look for answers to the question of why He had to die. The logic of a person possing this question is why would an omnipotent and omniscient God use the death of Jesus as the only way to salvation. I hope you understand this


Jordan:

The Bible states that "The wages of sin is death" (KJV Rom 6:23). Which means that the penalty for sin is death. Adam was warned that the day he sinned he would "surely die", and that is exactly what happened spiritually. Later, he died physically. Today all humans die because all are sinners, and all are sinners because Adam brought the curse of sin and death upon humanity (Rom. 5:12).

Death is separation. Physical death is the separation of the soul and spirit from the body. But there is a "second death" which is the eternal separation of the soul from God. This is when souls are confined eternally to the Lake of Fire.

Therefore, in order for sinners to be reconciled to God and be forgiven of their sins, it was necessary for a Sin-Bearer to not only take all the sins and guilt of the world upon Himself, but to also give His life as payment or a "ransom" for the sin-debt. Therefore "Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures" (1 Cor. 15:3).

Only God as Man could pay the penalty for the sins of the whole world. Christ was fully God and fully sinless Man, and as such could become the Lamb of God who "took away" the sin of the world (Jn. 1:29).

When Christ died, He also paid the penalty of eternal death by suffering in His own body and soul the wrath of God againt sin (1Pet.2:24). During those three dark hours on the Cross, God poured out His judgment against sin upon the holy soul of Christ (Isa. 53:4-10).

We will never fathom the depth and scope of the sufferings and death of Christ. But we can rest assured that all our sins were "purged" at the Cross. "When He had BY HIMSELF purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high" (Heb. 1:3). The fact the Christ rose again and was exalted and sat down at the right hand of the Father is proof positive that His sacrifice and death were totally satisfactory to meet the just demands of a holy God against sin.

At the same time, in order to be forgiven, it is necessary for sinners to be "washed" in the blood of Christ. Therefore Christ shed His blood for our redemption, since "without the shedding of blood is no remission" (Heb. 9:22). Remission means forgiveness. And "He washed us from our sins in His own blood" (Rev. 1:5).

After His resurrection, Christ said to His apostles:

"Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance AND REMISSION OF SINS should be preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem" (Lk. 24:47).

This is the Gospel or Good News to all mankind. The death, burial and resurrection of Christ were absolutely necessary for the salvation of men.



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