Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (Full Version)

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loco79 -> Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 11:09:24 AM)

Here is my dilemma, not sure if it goes here.

I am a Catholic and my wife recently converted to Catholicism. She was raised traditional Baptist, and her parents are having a hard time accepting that she is Catholic. They went as far as to cancel a trip to visit us because they were so dissappointed. I am having a really hard time because her father is older and has been on a religious movement for a while, you know typical stuff- being a better person and so on.

So when my wife told them that she was converting my father in law became very angry and said that she was flat out wrong for becoming Catholic. Now here is my problem, he has always taught that there is no visible church of God , rather all of the churches are equal in authority and that there is no wrong church so long as you are christian. He also believes once saved always saved, so in fact whether she is Catholic or anything else doesnt really affect her salvation.

So if all churches are equal, and you cant lose your salvation, why is it ok to say that becoming Catholic is wrong? If anything now me and my wife are truly one body in christ. And our relationship with God is growing with each day becauase we are coming together spiritually. I will admit when she wasnt Catholic our spiritual growth did not even exist.

For some reason I cant uderstand how if you believe that all christian churches are equal, then how can it be wrong to partake in one over another. And to go a step further why would someone be anti-Catholic. My in laws are all pretty much anti-Catholic, they wont even step inside one, yet they excpect me to walk openly in theirs. If you truly believe we are all one christian family then why would you be anti any christian faith.

I guess i am just venting a little bit here. I am not here to start a thread on Catholicism vs Protestanism. I believe that if you are going to say i accept all christians faiths to be true and equal, then maybe you shouldnt be anti any of them.



dianetavegia -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 11:28:09 AM)

No, it is not hypocritical to call oneself a Christian yet disagree with teachings of another denomination that do not agree with scripture or teach things that are not aligned with scripture.



"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." - Gal. 1:6-9


'And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother." - 2 Thes. 3:14-15


I think it was right for your inlaws to postpone a visit until they could digest this conversion to Catholicism. Things might have been said that could never be 'unsaid'. Sounds like the inlaws wanted to prevent that.



buckifn -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 11:36:21 AM)

quote:

And to go a step further why would someone be anti-Catholic. My in laws are all pretty much anti-Catholic, they wont even step inside one, yet they excpect me to walk openly in theirs. If you truly believe we are all one christian family then why would you be anti any christian faith.


1 reason could be ignorance of what the other faith, such as "Catholicism" actually consists of. It's not that odd really because many people INSIDE a specific denomination do not know the doctrine of their own chosen denomination, much less an outsider who has never attended any classes or experienced actually attending a service there.



daisies4u -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 11:38:45 AM)

Have you had an open dialogue with them about what it means to be Catholic? Maybe he just doesn't understand. I was always taught that Catholic's did not believe that Jesus was the Son of God and therefore did not need Jesus in order to be saved. Then I actually had a discussion with someone who explained that that is not what they believe at all.

Maybe your FIL is just seeing the differences in your religion not the similarities. And you "converted" his daughter into believing what you do.



upNORTder -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 11:42:00 AM)

Churches that teach that there is one means of salvation, faith in Jesus Christ the son of God- who is God, true God- true Man, who lived and died for our sins, are equal and correct.
Churches that teach you must perform good works for salvation outside of the good work of believing in Jesus as Lord and Savior, are in error. Churches that write thier own rules and place them over or equal to scripture are in error. Churches that believe you need the intercession of anyone but Christ when you pray is in error. Churches that teach repetitive prayer are in error. If a church is in error, how can it be equal?



loco79 -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 11:44:34 AM)

I am not trying to get into doctine differences, because my in laws disagree with many charasmatic churches, yet they dont think converting to the is wrong, they just disagree. Here is an example: if my wife would have converted to Episcapaloun ( sorry if spelling is wrong), they would not have said she is wrong.

For me it is hard for me to see how we can all be equal, and yet be wrong. Thanks for your replies, I know that this one can be a little tricky without going into all of the scripture and what each individual church believes. I remember Jesus saying the church is one with him, just as he is one with the father. And if the church is one, how could any that fall into the category of that one, be wrong.

Now if his arguement was that Catholics werent christians, that is one thing, becuase i specifically asked him if he believes Catholics are christians and he said yes, so I know that is not an issue for him. So if he accepts Catholics as his christian bretheren, then however wrong I am, must also apply to his church, because we are equal in the body of christ.



loco79 -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 11:47:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: upNORTder

Churches that teach that there is one means of salvation, faith in Jesus Christ the son of God- who is God, true God- true Man, who lived and died for our sins, are equal and correct.
Churches that teach you must perform good works for salvation outside of the good work of believing in Jesus as Lord and Savior, are in error. Churches that write thier own rules and place them over or equal to scripture are in error. Churches that believe you need the intercession of anyone but Christ when you pray is in error. Churches that teach repetitive prayer are in error. If a church is in error, how can it be equal?


There are many other places to discuss doctrinal differences, and I hope that this is not one of them. If you would like to correspond about the differences, I would be more than happy to in another topic or in private.



Sideways -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 11:52:02 AM)

Well, it's not wrong to disagree with another denomination. I personally think some (not all) Baptist churches are highly legalistic, and are actually doing more harm then good to the Kingdom of God.

But it is wrong to create strife and pain within a family and within the Christian Church over doctrinal differences. In this respect, I think your FIL is being hypocritical and is definitely wrong. My mother left the Catholic church to become a Protestant, and my grandfather was always disappointed, but he never severed fellowship over it.

But I suggest that you be the better man and give him some time to get used to the idea. Assuming he treats you and your wife with the respect you deserve as a new and separate family unit, then treat him graciously when he does decide to reach out to you. If he continues to be hurtful to you and your wife, then you must, as head of the family, sever contact until he is willing to respect proper boundaries.

CW can be very anti-Catholic, in fact I've gotten flack over the fact that my husband is Lutheran, and I decided to follow him into that denomination (we even had our baby baptized). So, I think some posts have already shown that you may not get a lot of sympathy for your case. But stand strong. You must protect yourself and your wife from harmful influences, even and especially extended family members.

But if they are willing to put all that in the past, then be gracious and forgive, as Jesus would have you do.



loco79 -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 11:55:12 AM)

Thanks sideways, very well put.



Kat_D -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 12:14:09 PM)

The reason they are concerned is the same reason I would be concerned. While there are some in the Catholic faith who are true believers; because of the dogma and doctrine, there are many who are not...I was one of them and did not become born-again until I left that church. Again, you can go to any of the threads in the Theology folder to see what the objections are to the Catholic faith.

So, no, I don't think they are being hypocritical because they are concerned for their daughter. If you are true believers, it will just take time for them to be able to recognize it. I do think it was wrong of them to become angry, but as I said, if your lives show your faith is legitimate, they'll hopefully get over it.



preserved -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 12:54:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daisies4u

Have you had an open dialogue with them about what it means to be Catholic? Maybe he just doesn't understand. I was always taught that Catholic's did not believe that Jesus was the Son of God and therefore did not need Jesus in order to be saved. Then I actually had a discussion with someone who explained that that is not what they believe at all.

Maybe your FIL is just seeing the differences in your religion not the similarities. And you "converted" his daughter into believing what you do.



The traditional catholics...do not recognize Jesus as the Son of God..They refer to Mary and the (man) as pope...The newer catholics who are beginning to grasps a better understanding do believe that Jesus is Lord and the Son of God.



preserved -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 12:57:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: upNORTder

Churches that teach that there is one means of salvation, faith in Jesus Christ the son of God- who is God, true God- true Man, who lived and died for our sins, are equal and correct.
Churches that teach you must perform good works for salvation outside of the good work of believing in Jesus as Lord and Savior, are in error. Churches that write thier own rules and place them over or equal to scripture are in error. Churches that believe you need the intercession of anyone but Christ when you pray is in error. Churches that teach repetitive prayer are in error. If a church is in error, how can it be equal?


Exactly...all doctrine are not equal...yet when you do a deeper study...all adopts portion of the Kings James version of the Bible...



preserved -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 1:07:11 PM)

loco79...Baptist doctrinal beliefs are different from the catholism (older) religious beliefs..those who believe in confession to the pope as man...This is perhaps what your father-inlaw is oppose to...Very rarely have I witness a born again christian under the baptist doctrine convert to catholics...Ususally the other way around..

The church is the individuals believers in Christ...the place of worship is an assembly...so in that content...there is no wrong church..(person) however, if one believes not in God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit which is what the Baptist doctrinal beliefs are...then that is where the problems comes in. The baptist does believe once saved always saved...you cannot lose your salavation.

What do you mean when she was not catholic your sprititual growth did not exists? Because the two of you were not on one accord>>>



WhiteRoseBlessings -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 1:28:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: preserved

quote:

ORIGINAL: daisies4u

Have you had an open dialogue with them about what it means to be Catholic? Maybe he just doesn't understand. I was always taught that Catholic's did not believe that Jesus was the Son of God and therefore did not need Jesus in order to be saved. Then I actually had a discussion with someone who explained that that is not what they believe at all.

Maybe your FIL is just seeing the differences in your religion not the similarities. And you "converted" his daughter into believing what you do.



The traditional catholics...do not recognize Jesus as the Son of God..They refer to Mary and the (man) as pope...The newer catholics who are beginning to grasps a better understanding do believe that Jesus is Lord and the Son of God.
Preserved, what is your source on this, please?

I was raised Catholic (and born at the very end of Vatican I), and I was never taught that Jesus wasn't Our Lord nor the Son of God; in fact, quite the opposite. I was taught the Holy Trinity - The Father (God), the Son (Jesus) and The Holy Spirit.

Nor was this being espoused as a "new teaching" but yet one that had always been.



preserved -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 2:00:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings

quote:

ORIGINAL: preserved

quote:

ORIGINAL: daisies4u

Have you had an open dialogue with them about what it means to be Catholic? Maybe he just doesn't understand. I was always taught that Catholic's did not believe that Jesus was the Son of God and therefore did not need Jesus in order to be saved. Then I actually had a discussion with someone who explained that that is not what they believe at all.

Maybe your FIL is just seeing the differences in your religion not the similarities. And you "converted" his daughter into believing what you do.



The traditional catholics...do not recognize Jesus as the Son of God..They refer to Mary and the (man) as pope...The newer catholics who are beginning to grasps a better understanding do believe that Jesus is Lord and the Son of God.
Preserved, what is your source on this, please?

I was raised Catholic (and born at the very end of Vatican I), and I was never taught that Jesus wasn't Our Lord nor the Son of God; in fact, quite the opposite. I was taught the Holy Trinity - The Father (God), the Son (Jesus) and The Holy Spirit.

Nor was this being espoused as a "new teaching" but yet one that had always been.


My source is from those I have spoken to who are catholics...

If this has been your beliefs then where does the pope and your confession of sin to the priest pope and mary come into play? I was also told that the children are going to hell if they are not christianed??

I have also talked to catholics who belief in the Trinity however, they still confess their sins to a man



loco79 -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 2:12:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: preserved

loco79...Baptist doctrinal beliefs are different from the catholism (older) religious beliefs..those who believe in confession to the pope as man...This is perhaps what your father-inlaw is oppose to...Very rarely have I witness a born again christian under the baptist doctrine convert to catholics...Ususally the other way around..

The church is the individuals believers in Christ...the place of worship is an assembly...so in that content...there is no wrong church..(person) however, if one believes not in God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit which is what the Baptist doctrinal beliefs are...then that is where the problems comes in. The baptist does believe once saved always saved...you cannot lose your salavation.

What do you mean when she was not catholic your sprititual growth did not exists? Because the two of you were not on one accord>>>


Well i dont agree that the church is just individual beliefs, an example for this topic is in Mathew. If two people cannot agree then they should go to the church, it doesnt get anymore explicit than that. Also even if for example i took your example the church is a body of believers, Jesus tells us to be in one faith. And we know clearly that we are not all in one faith. He tells us to be on just as he and the father are one. This is ofter overlooked, Jesus and God are in perfect harmony with each other, Chrisitans are clearly not in perfect harmony with each other.

As far as the Catholics you have talked with, i have spoken to many protestans who dont understand there own faith, does that mean i should judge all protestants off the few? of course not.



loco79 -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 2:15:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: preserved

quote:

ORIGINAL: upNORTder

Churches that teach that there is one means of salvation, faith in Jesus Christ the son of God- who is God, true God- true Man, who lived and died for our sins, are equal and correct.
Churches that teach you must perform good works for salvation outside of the good work of believing in Jesus as Lord and Savior, are in error. Churches that write thier own rules and place them over or equal to scripture are in error. Churches that believe you need the intercession of anyone but Christ when you pray is in error. Churches that teach repetitive prayer are in error. If a church is in error, how can it be equal?


Exactly...all doctrine are not equal...yet when you do a deeper study...all adopts portion of the Kings James version of the Bible...


The Catholic bible was the first christian bible, so in essesence all adopts portion of the Catholics and not vice versa.



loco79 -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 2:24:21 PM)

Forgot to give the verses for Mathew 18:15-17

But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. 16 And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.

If you believe that everyone is the church, it is clearly not stating to go and see every person, or to go to every church in existance.



preserved -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 2:31:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: loco79

Forgot to give the verses for Mathew 18:15-17

But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. 16 And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.

If you believe that everyone is the church, it is clearly not stating to go and see every person, or to go to every church in existance.


The is in reference to church body (members) of the local assembly . I do not believe that everyone is the church...As Christ is the head and we are many members of one body



WhiteRoseBlessings -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 2:32:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: preserved

My source is from those I have spoken to who are catholics...
It appears then, that you have been misinformed.



loco79 -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 2:37:17 PM)

I really didnt want to go down the route of what each individual church believes and how one is more correct than the other. In my opening of the post I did not talk bad about the the theology of any individual church or its doctrine. I can go down this road if you want, but have done it too many times. Some of you dont agree with the Catholic church, fine I was trying to convert anybody. I can go verse for verse on whatever you want to talk about as far as Catholicism is concerned. And I can do the same thing for Protestant beliefs, and yet this was not my intent. My main question at the begining was, if we are all christian, and all claim the same authority, and all use the same scripture to prove our authority, then in reality how can one be right or wrong. And I know some people will argue by who is more biblical, but that is a circular arguement, I can prove by verses that the Catholic church is just as biblical as any church. I can use explicit and implicit meanings just like the rest of you. If we are one in faith in Jesus, then why such antimocity towards a fellow brother. I have none for you. If anything I would love to see Christians united under one banner and set an example for the world to follow. And no matter how many verses we give it all comes down to authority to interpret the verses. If one verse has two opposing meaning then how should we come to a conclusion, since we are both using the bible, then how can you prove your point and disprove mine if you and I have the same authority. And this is exaclty why Jesus instituted a church and gave it the power to bind and loose sins (continue reading Mt 18:18), the church can baptise, the church is the pillar of truth. The church is the body of christ just as a wife is the body of the husband. Without the body there head is useless and vice versa.

So if any one who wants to go verse for verse on beliefs can objectively prove they have more authority than any other chrisitan faith, without going into the circular agrument of who follows the scripture, please let me know and I will more than gladly go tit for tat with you



preserved -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 2:46:31 PM)

loco79...I think all was someway trying to help you understand why your father-in law is in objection to his daughter converting from baptist to catholic...It all boils down to interpretation of beliefs...We could all read the same book...and yet we all may or may not agree on the content...because it would be based upon how one interprets what has been read. The father-in law is upset based upon his daughter converting. The bottom line is if the two of you believe in the same then so be it...It will not change her father's opinion...based upon what he has been taught....

Did she convert because of you or her beliefs in under the doctinal of the catholics



shadowspring -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 2:53:17 PM)

Jesus said that by this will all men know that we are disciples, when we love one another.

I am only the parent of a teen, but I will speak of what I know. Disappointment, when it appears a child is rejecting what the parent holds precious, can be devastating. Hopefully your in-laws are taking their disappointment to the Lord and seeking His direction. Hopefully that's why they postponed their visit, to get a grip on their emotions.

Emotions come and go. We don't usually will them up, they just are. Being disappointed with their daughter is not hypocritical. Having strong emotions about it is not hypocritical. It's what action they decide to take about it when they have cooled off that will matter.

Cutting off fellowship with her would be hypocritical. It is not an issue to disown anyone over. I'm not sure there is such a reason to disown your own child, frankly. There is surely a time to withdraw financial support, but not cut your children from your heart.

However the news seems to have come as a great shock to them, so give them time and pray for them while you wait. Hopefully they can have a reasonable conversation with their daughter and come to the place of love and acceptance again. [:)]



daisies4u -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 2:53:40 PM)

Well, I didn't mean to start that kind of debate. I just meant that if you wife converted to a religion that your FIL thought was inaccurate in their teachings, then you should be able to understand his concerns and address those.

If my sons, where were raised Christian decided to become Jewish after they were married, you betcha I would be upset. If, however, they decided to become Baptist or some other religion that was "basically" the same as mine, then I don't think that I would be upset.

quote:

Now if his arguement was that Catholics werent christians, that is one thing, becuase i specifically asked him if he believes Catholics are christians and he said yes, so I know that is not an issue for him.


Then it is probably more that he is hurt that she would turn away from what he has taught her. If this is the case, then he should come around eventually. If not, then yes, he is being judgemental and hypocritical.

If he believes that Catholics are Christian, then what is his reasoning for being upset?? Do you know?



loco79 -> RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic (7/2/2008 3:02:13 PM)

Preserved She converted because in her heart there are some issues with her Baptist upbringing that were in her eyes just to contradicting. She was also witness to many of mine and her fathers debates and conversations about Catholics and non-Catholics. I will not go into the details about what she agreed or disagreed with, but I will give a brief reason why. Deep down she felt we needed to be one spiritually, and having two opposing faiths was bad for her and for our children. She felt no matter how close we came, we just couldnt get over the hurtle of our faith's, and she felt sad because the way she saw it we really werent one in Gods eyes, especially since our faith's were so critical of one another.

That is all I will divulge about why she converted.

I never intended this topic to be about one belief or another, as far as theological makeup is concerned. I guess inside of me it feels wierd that for being christians we can be so unchristian to our fellow brothers and sisters.



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