RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/3/2008 12:54:30 PM
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Sideways
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MamaMilty
Perhaps you fil's emotional reaction is out of care and concern for his daughter's spiritual welfare (as he sees it) mixed with hurt at her rejection of what he holds dear (and right, as he see it) Was his emotional outburst the perfect reaction to the news...no, but who of us is perfect? It shows wisdom on their part to postpone a visit until they can get ahold of their emotions.
Let's just put the shoe on the other foot for a moment, shall we? If, you believe all Christian faiths to be equal, why did you not choose your wife's denom in order to become spiritually one?
I think you might've hit the nail on the head - she rejected something he holds very dear, the Baptist church, and that's gotta hurt.
But the OP already said that his wife made the choice on her own to convert because she had her own issues with the Baptist church and she wanted to be in unity with her husband who is the spiritual head of the family.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/3/2008 1:04:12 PM
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MamaMilty
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
quote:
ORIGINAL: MamaMilty
Perhaps you fil's emotional reaction is out of care and concern for his daughter's spiritual welfare (as he sees it) mixed with hurt at her rejection of what he holds dear (and right, as he see it) Was his emotional outburst the perfect reaction to the news...no, but who of us is perfect? It shows wisdom on their part to postpone a visit until they can get ahold of their emotions.
Let's just put the shoe on the other foot for a moment, shall we? If, you believe all Christian faiths to be equal, why did you not choose your wife's denom in order to become spiritually one?
I think you might've hit the nail on the head - she rejected something he holds very dear, the Baptist church, and that's gotta hurt.
But the OP already said that his wife made the choice on her own to convert because she had her own issues with the Baptist church and she wanted to be in unity with her husband who is the spiritual head of the family.
Yes, I wasn't questioning her/their decision, I was just setting a scenerio for thought that might help the OP step into his fil's shoes as it were. He believe's in his denom (as he should) and how would he feel if his were rejected by his love one?
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For the Lord gives wisdom, and from his mouth come knowledge and understanding. Proverbs 2:6
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/3/2008 1:21:45 PM
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loco79
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Here is my issue, my neighbor is non-denominational christian and when he found out my wife was converting he was overjoyed. He was happy because explained to me how great it is to be in communion with your spouse when it comes to spirituality, he didnt feel that she was wrong for becoming Catholic. He actually believes (I mean practice what he preaches) that if you are a christian church (of course he has his own standards for determining if you are one or not) then all of us christians have the same authority and rites to God. He wouldnt say anything negative about a fellow christian church, and i really mean that. He believes so much in christianity that he doesnt feel the need to preach to other christians, if they ask of course he will respond, but he is trying to reach out to non christians.
I say this about my neigbor because my fil, in theory believes the same thing that my neighbor does. And this is why I feel he is being hypocritical. Now I know that everyone is a hypocrite when it comes to faith, at one time or another, but i have found most are not when it comes to the foundations of thier beliefs. Is my neighbor a sinner, of course, but he does practice and puts value to his core theological beliefs.
Maybe I should elaborate my story a little more. One of the reaons it is hard for me to understand my fil reactions is because one day we where discussing some things about Catholics and Baptists and on one particular subject (what it was is not important), I disaggreed with one of his beliefs, used some scripture to affirm my beliefs, and when he realised that my point was just as valid as his, he tells me it is not a big issued to him because we are all christian and no christian can be wrong because they are guided by the holy spirit(I dont really want to go into defining right vs wrong and so forth). He is the one that told me that we are all equal as christians. He told me that if you act in love and pray for the spirit to guide you then really cant be wrong, disagree but wrong, because we both worship Jesus.
So a little over a year later when my wife converts, it just rubs me the wrong way that all of a sudden he as the authority to tell another christian that they are wrong.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/3/2008 1:25:35 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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God bless you and your family, loco.
I would encourage you to pray. For you and your wife. For your in-laws. For all of all together.
Pray blessings into your father-in-law's life. Pray for Wisdom and Guidance for yourself.
I have found that when I do that with someone who I am having an "issue" with, things go much better all the way around.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/3/2008 1:27:52 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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Sometimes we will never know the reasons why for something or for someone's behaivor or attiudes. Often, we're not even supposed to know.
Continue giving all of this over to Our Lord and seeking His Wisdom and His Guidance. Continue asking for His Covering and His Blessings over you, your wife and her parents.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/3/2008 1:41:32 PM
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Kat_D
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quote:
Maybe I should elaborate my story a little more. One of the reaons it is hard for me to understand my fil reactions is because one day we where discussing some things about Catholics and Baptists and on one particular subject (what it was is not important), I disaggreed with one of his beliefs, used some scripture to affirm my beliefs, and when he realised that my point was just as valid as his, he tells me it is not a big issued to him because we are all christian and no christian can be wrong because they are guided by the holy spirit(I dont really want to go into defining right vs wrong and so forth). He is the one that told me that we are all equal as christians. He told me that if you act in love and pray for the spirit to guide you then really cant be wrong, disagree but wrong, because we both worship Jesus.
So a little over a year later when my wife converts, it just rubs me the wrong way that all of a sudden he as the authority to tell another christian that they are wrong.
He obviously was trying to spare your feelings when you had that initial discussion. With that in mind, it is also obvious that he may have been O.K. with you being a Catholic, but is not O.K. with his daughter converting.
The bottom line is that there is nothing you can do to change his feelings but pray, and be a witness of true Christianity with your life.
It does no good whatsoever to make a determination about whether or not he is a hypocrite. As a Christian, you know that you are called to love him no matter how much he "rubs you the wrong way."
10 "Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another; 11 not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; 12 rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer; 13 distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality. 14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. 16 Be of the same mind toward one another." -Romans 12
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/3/2008 1:48:55 PM
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martyfran
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
He obviously was trying to spare your feelings when you had that initial discussion.
Obviously? LOL. That is priceless!
Anyway, in my opinion, the big problem that most of us Christians have is that God gave us two ears and one mouth, and we never seem to use them in that proportion.
My suggestion is mainly to pray. We rarely win converts to our point of view through our clever arguments, but by planting seeds that keep people up in the middle of the night. Pray first, then speak. We usually seem to do the opposite.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/3/2008 2:16:32 PM
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preserved
Posts: 921
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
Maybe I should elaborate my story a little more. One of the reaons it is hard for me to understand my fil reactions is because one day we where discussing some things about Catholics and Baptists and on one particular subject (what it was is not important), I disaggreed with one of his beliefs, used some scripture to affirm my beliefs, and when he realised that my point was just as valid as his, he tells me it is not a big issued to him because we are all christian and no christian can be wrong because they are guided by the holy spirit(I dont really want to go into defining right vs wrong and so forth). He is the one that told me that we are all equal as christians. He told me that if you act in love and pray for the spirit to guide you then really cant be wrong, disagree but wrong, because we both worship Jesus.
So a little over a year later when my wife converts, it just rubs me the wrong way that all of a sudden he as the authority to tell another christian that they are wrong.
He obviously was trying to spare your feelings when you had that initial discussion. With that in mind, it is also obvious that he may have been O.K. with you being a Catholic, but is not O.K. with his daughter converting.
The bottom line is that there is nothing you can do to change his feelings but pray, and be a witness of true Christianity with your life.
It does no good whatsoever to make a determination about whether or not he is a hypocrite. As a Christian, you know that you are called to love him no matter how much he "rubs you the wrong way."
10 "Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another; 11 not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; 12 rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer; 13 distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality. 14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. 16 Be of the same mind toward one another." -Romans 12
Very good point KatD...
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/3/2008 4:49:33 PM
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Ps103
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Again, if you do not have advice on the relationship between the OP and his wife's family--stay out of the thread, please.
I linked to where you may give your opinions about doctrine earlier. This is not the thread for it.
Final warning.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/3/2008 6:43:19 PM
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Bridgitt
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Nowadays, is it hard to know what the word "christian" means. I do not say that I am a christian anymore, I say that I am a follower of Jesus. I have met some catholics who do not follow the teachings of Jesus and do not live according to His will. I am guessing that your FIL thinks that you are a person who do not live according to God's will and fears for his daughter to believe false teachings.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/3/2008 8:24:36 PM
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Ps103
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Loco, bottom line: You can do nothing to change your father-in-law, but the Holy Spirit can.
Is he being hypocritical? Yes.
Will bringing that fact to his attention do any good? No.
The best--in fact the only--thing you can do is to pray and leave it in God's hands.
Meanwhile, show him in your words and deeds what being a Christian means. Pray for grace.
And show your wife some extra kindness during this time. This is insulting to you, but it must be devastating for her.
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Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/3/2008 8:41:49 PM
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Liveloved
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Contrary to what others have said (which is not at all unusual for me), I see most denominations as holding beliefs that I do not think reflect Jesus and His teachings. For example, most of my 'Baptist' friends are 'ex-Baptists' and recovering from legalism is much harder than finding true faith in God.
Catholicism certainly has its beliefs that I do not agree with. But if we are talking about loving and trusting Jesus and His life being lived in and through you, then I'd say we're all on the same playing field. And someday He will straighten us all out. I'm looking forward to that day. 
Edited to add: And to the moderators, I'm really not trying to diverge to doctrine but speak to the OP and encourage.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/5/2008 11:47:50 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
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quote:
ORIGINAL: loco79
to Dakotasunbeam
There aer many things I could go into that protestants have added as tradition, so that argument is not really on solid grounds. Now matter how you try and spin it Catholics put the bible together in the late 390's with two councils and then a pope blessed. It was not like with Moses were God came to him directly. These councils were by men of the Catholic faith.
I absolutely agree. There are a number of things in the protestant church that is destructive and so far away from the Bible. Quite frankly, loco79, I see the protestant church becoming a place with lot of pointless rituals increasingly day by day. It's a sad state of affairs. We have the Bible in several languages including its original language are are able to translate that without the aid of priests. Anyone who learns these languages can read the Bible in its original. There's no great contribution by the Catholic church. God's word is sufficient. The catholic church like most man made institutions (increasingly the protestant church today) take credit for something entirely God breathed . . . but that's understandable . . . that's what vain men do.
quote:
We must also remember that, Luther did not just happen to find a christian bible and begin preaching from it, he learned from the Catholic church. Whether he was right or wrong I am not going to go into right now, but if we look at it rationally, all christian churches from the 1500s have come from the Catholic one, or are a byproduct of a church that originated from the Catholic one. You cannont be greater than your origin, and dont feed the line that your church came from the bible, because we all know that isnt true. Our origin is Jesus Christ. No man can build a better foundation than Jesus Christ. And it is that foundation on which I stand. Never would I give that glory to any man or insitution -- protestant or catholic. As believers this should be our stance.
quote:
Catholicism was the original christian church, so even if you dont agree with some of the teachings because you dont understand them. It doesnt mean that it is wrong. Because if any one church of Christ's is wrong, then all fall subject to being wrong. No. Catholicism was the original "institutionalized" church. The originial church went from house to house, they preached the gospel and lived simply.
quote:
And even if you made the agurment that Luther was more correct than the Catholic church, you would have to ask yourself if everything he taught was correct, or could he be wrong. Last I checked Luther believed in the immaculate coception of Mary, and all her subsequent roles that Catholics believe in. Seems you are more interested in what reformers and men say, rather than what's in the Bible itself. Perhaps this kind of though concerns her father? What does the Bible say???
quote:
So if he was wrong about Mary, which I know many Protestants will say he was, then couldnt he be wrong about other things. And if he is wrong about other things, then couldnt any subsequent church also be wrong? Good thing we have the bible!
quote:
My point is that no protestant has the authority to say that Catholicism is wrong, they might have a claim on being just as equal in authority, but to call Catholicism wrong you would also have to call any Protestant church wrong. I would be horrified if my child converted to ANY faith that was far away from the Bible (protestant/catholic).
I think her father thought it was OK for you to be "catholic" but not OK for his daughter to become catholic. I suppose it could seem hypocritical, but perhaps he did this to "keep the peace." Now that he feels his daughters salvation has come into jeapardy, he will need some time to think about this within himself. Give him some time. He may not change his beliefs, but he may learn a better way to deal with it. Be careful, you may find yourself in a similar situation should a child of yours (God foribid), convert to Islam or Buddhism.
This is a time for gentleness and longsuffering, not judgement. What would you do if you felt like your daughter's eternal salvation was in jeapardy?
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/6/2008 7:49:04 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeamquote:
Catholicism was the original christian church, so even if you dont agree with some of the teachings because you dont understand them. It doesnt mean that it is wrong. Because if any one church of Christ's is wrong, then all fall subject to being wrong. No. Catholicism was the original "institutionalized" church. The originial church went from house to house, they preached the gospel and lived simply. Wrong and wrong.
What was the original institutional gentile church is now the Eastern Orthodox, with the Catholics splitting off from them a thousand years ago. If you want the original church, you have to look to ancient Messianic Judiasm. They were believing Jews, worshiped in the synagogues and Temple (pre 70 ad) along side traditional Jews.
There is a deep bias against certain denominations on the part of those from another doctrinal stance. I read one place that a Methodist pastor in the 1800s said he would rather have his daughter marry a buddhist than a Presbyterian. My dad (former Wesleyan pastor) once called catholicism the "... falsest of false religions because they name Christ." Like racism, these biases take generations to go away. TO the OP: I think this bias is what you are running into with your FIL. Catholic and Baptist doctrines and practices are just too far apart, to much of a jump for him to see the other as truly christian.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/6/2008 11:46:42 AM
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Ps103
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
I am closing this thread.
It seems posters are incapable of sticking to the OP and are intent on ignoring instruction.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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