Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Faith] >> General Faith



Message

modu -> Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/1/2008 5:11:39 PM)

Let us use biblical revelations and not mental assent.



earthless -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/1/2008 7:02:33 PM)

Heaven is indeed a real place. The Bible tells us that heaven is God’s throne (Isaiah 66:1, Acts 7:48-49, Matthew 5:34-35).

After Jesus’ resurrection and appearance on earth to His disciples, “He was taken up into heaven and sat at the right hand of God” (Mark 16:19, Acts 7:55-56). “Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; He entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence“ (Hebrews 9:24).

Jesus not only went before us, entering on our behalf, but He is alive and has a present ministry in heaven, serving as our high priest in the true tabernacle made by God (Hebrews 6:19-20, 8:1-2).

We are also told by Jesus Himself that there are many rooms in God’s house and that he Has gone before us to prepare a place for us. We have the assurance of His word that he will one day come back to earth and take us to where He is in heaven (John 14:1-4).

Our belief in an eternal home in heaven is based on an explicit promise of Jesus. Heaven is most definitely a real place. Heaven truly does exist.

When people deny the existence of heaven, they deny not only the written Word of God, they also deny the innermost longings of their own hearts.

The Apostle Paul addressed this very issue to the Corinthians, encouraging them to cling to the hope of heaven so that they would not lose heart: “For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it’s not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life” (2 Corinthians 5:1-4).

He urged them to look forward to their eternal home in heaven, a perspective that would enable them to endure hardships and disappointments in this life. “For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal” (2 Corinthians 4:17-18).

Just as God has put in men’s hearts the knowledge that He exists (Romans 1:19-20), so too are we “programmed” to desire heaven.

It is the theme of countless books, music and works of art. Unfortunately, our sin has barred the way to heaven. Since heaven is the abode of a holy and perfect God, sin has no place there, nor can it be tolerated.

Fortunately, God has provided for us the key to open the doors of heaven - Jesus Christ.

All who believe in Him and seek forgiveness for sin will find the doors of heaven swung wide for them. “Since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is his body, and since we have a great high priest over the house of God, let us draw near to God with a sincere heart full of assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water” (Hebrews 10:19-22).



ladyichigo -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/1/2008 7:46:00 PM)

Heaven is mentioned over 400 times in the Bible. From what I understand heaven is a place, since prepositional phrases often precedes the word, “heaven” in scripture. Here's a few verses from the OT and NT:

2 Samuel 22:14 NIV
The LORD thundered from heaven; the voice of the Most High resounded.

Psalm 53:2

God looks down from heaven on the sons of men to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God.

Psalm 103:19
The LORD has established his throne in heaven, and his kingdom rules over all.


Ecclesiastes 5:2
Do not be quick with your mouth, do not be hasty in your heart to utter anything before God. God is in heaven and you are on earth, so let your words be few.


Luke 2:15 NIV
When the angels had left them and gone into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, "Let's go to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us about."


Hebrews 1:3 NIV
The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.



Heaven is God's dwelling place.
Deuteronomy 26:15; 1 Kings 8:30; 1 Kings 8:39; 1 Kings 8:43; 1 Kings 8:49; 1 Chronicles 16:31; 1 Chronicles 21:26


According to IBS.com Bible Concordance / Dictionary:
quote:

heaven—the realm where God exists. God's intention was to live in his creation with humans, but humanity rebelled. God exists in exile from the people he created, but he will live among us after the end of this present, sin-filled age.

Revelation 21:1
Revelation 22:1-5
In fact, by the Holy Spirit, he already lives in the people who live the way he wants them to.

Ephesians 2:21-22
These followers of Jesus have their citizenship in heaven because Jesus is there waiting to return to a restored creation.

Philippians 3:12-21
2 Peter 3:3-13



bob97 -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/1/2008 8:25:46 PM)

I will tell you this...when you turn your life to Christ and trust completely in God, turning all you problems to him; when you love God with all your heart you will have a peace in you heart. You can actually have heaven on earth in real time.

God dwells in heaven but He also dwells in our heart and spirit…there fore we can say our spirit is in heaven with the Spirit of God.

Bob



mvic -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/1/2008 8:58:05 PM)

Well said Bob,

Heaven may be a place - but it is also in our hearts, within us, if we have the Spirit of God within us.

Someone once told me that when we die God will sit us on his knees like a child and show us our life over again. There we will see the good and bad we have done; the opportunities missed to do good, and help others; and there ... on His knees, will be our personal Heaven or hell.

So, in whatever shape or form Heaven is, we have the opportunity right now to make sure that our life as seen from "His knees" will be our Heaven.



colliefan -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/1/2008 9:27:33 PM)

I do believe Heaven is a real place, But it far beyond our finite minds to comprehend what it is like.

Come, Lord, when grace has made me meet
Thy blessed face to see;
For if thy work on earth be sweet
What will thy glory be!
My knowledge of that life is small
The eye of faith is dim;
But ’tis enough that Christ knows all
And I shall be with him.
Richard Baxter (1615–1691)



MrFribbles -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/1/2008 10:21:40 PM)

I believe Heaven is a real place, and deserves an H in its name as a proper noun. It is not an abstract concept, it is not something we feel - it is a place that one day all who have received God's salvation will dwell.



deermousie -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/2/2008 12:13:49 AM)

The Bible tells us that there will be a new earth (dibs on Yosemite Valley! [:D]) and the old earth will be rolled up like a garment and thrown away. So heaven is not on earth and isn't earth since there's a distinction of heaven and earth - two separate places.



Liveloved -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/2/2008 3:16:11 AM)

quote:

I do believe Heaven is a real place, But it far beyond our finite minds to comprehend what it is like.

Come, Lord, when grace has made me meet
Thy blessed face to see;
For if thy work on earth be sweet
What will thy glory be!
My knowledge of that life is small
The eye of faith is dim;
But ’tis enough that Christ knows all
And I shall be with him.
Richard Baxter (1615–1691)


I'm with Baxter---tis enough that Christ knows all and I shall be with Him. Thanks for sharing this quote colliefan![:)]



LCannon -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/2/2008 12:27:04 PM)

Probably the 'new heaven' is in another dimension in the cosmos. Jesus' resurrected body was(is)in an different manifestation. "After this he appeared in another form to two of them, as they were walking into the country."(Mark 16:12)



HisFish -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/3/2008 10:09:22 AM)

It's in Colorado. No verse to back it up. just come here and you'll see[;)]



DSmitty -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/4/2008 6:18:46 AM)

I agree that heaven is a real place. But is it a physical, material place in the same way that earth is a physical material place? And if so, where is it? Is it another planet?

In the beginning God created the heaven (spiritual realm) and the earth (material realm). "The earth" in Genesis 1:1 is the Hebrew "ha oretz". It has been translated earth (meaning land or dirt), land, soil, rock, etc. It is the physical. Nowadays we think of the earth as our planet, when in truth the other planets also consist of "earth" i.e., land, dirt, material mass.

Jesus alluded to heaven being among us, and preached that the kingdom of heaven was at hand. Many places in Scripture speak of God coming "down from heaven", or manna coming "down from heaven". Isaiah said that heaven is higher than the earth. But which way is up from earth, seeing that the earth is round? What's up in China is down to us, and vice verse. The heaven is higher than the earth in quality. I think of heaven almost as a higher dimension (though I don't know that that even really puts it accurately). The book of Hebrews speaks of those who have gone before us and are now in the presence of God; and then says, "seeing we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses", and the inference is that they are in a place that they can see and witness what is taking place in our realm, but we cannot see them. I believe that heaven is a superior realm (higher) and that in our natural mortal bodies and minds we are unable to see it because it is beyond our mortal comprehension.

In Isaiah God said, "The heaven is my throne and the earth is my footstool." Heaven is the place from which God rules - His seat of government. Jesus encouraged His people to pray, "Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven." To take the rule of God from heaven and see it manifested in the earth. To see more of the spirit realm manifested in the natural. There is much to infer in Genesis that the pre-fall world of Adam and Eve was one with a much more open view of the heavenly realm.

I could go on for a long time... it's actually one of my favorite subjects and touches into a plethora of other areas. But I'll cut it short for brevity's sake.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/4/2008 6:27:32 AM)

Revelation 21:1-10

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
21:2
I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
21:3
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.
21:4
He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."
21:5
He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
21:6
He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.
21:7
He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.
21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
21:9
One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb."
21:10
And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

This is our eternal home, New Jerusalem.



Butterflytearz -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/5/2008 1:49:15 AM)

I believe that heaven is both a place and a presence.. He has made all things New. While we are still in this flesh , in this world,, we can only see in part but when we see him face to face we shall know all things, The joy and peace and love we have recieved in our spirit is only a small part of the glory in heaven , yet it is this grace given that keeps us longing to be with the Lord , home at last.

2Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
[sm=angelic.gif]



MrFribbles -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/5/2008 2:31:48 AM)

quote:

This is our eternal home, New Jerusalem.


What is your opinion, then, of the new Earth that is created? What purpose will it serve?



SonInMe1 -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/5/2008 7:35:34 PM)

quote:

What is your opinion, then, of the new Earth that is created? What purpose will it serve?


Golf courses.

Without seas it will be a different ecosystem, probably one run by God in supernatural ways. Think about it...a city 1400 miles cubed...a lot of it will be in space.



HisFish -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/5/2008 8:18:52 PM)

quote:

Golf courses.

oooohhh i hope so[:)]



Robert_G -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/5/2008 10:10:25 PM)

Scripture is clear in telling us that there will be a 'renewal' of all things. NOT a recreation.
THIS earth will be renewed after it is laid bare.
God said his creation was 'very good'. If his creation was very good, he certaintly won't destroy it. He will RENEW it back to his original intention which is probably close to what the Garden of Eden was like.
The tree of life was in the GOE (Genesis), and the tree of life is also mentioned in the New Jerusalem (Revelation). One of many similiarities.

Scripture also states that the New Jerusalem will come OUT of heaven. The great city will sit on the renewed earth.

Our final destination as Christians will be the renewed earth. God will be with us, and his throne will be in the great city (New Jerusalem) which will also be on the new earth.

Heaven will also be renewed as in Satan will no longer be able to accuse us there in the Lord's presence.
Jesus himself said,
Luke 10:18
He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

All traces of sin will be removed from the new heaven and the new earth.



ta_mosquito -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/5/2008 10:17:46 PM)

I agree with most of you. [;)]

I think the New Heavens and the New Earth (the eternal place of Christians) is physically "here" on a renewed earth.

I also think, although I have no biblical evidence as such, that the current Heaven (where God is on His throne, where Christ is seated, etc.) is in another dimension, less than a breath away - similar to what LCannon said.



armydude -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/6/2008 8:45:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: modu

Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence?
Yes.



bob97 -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/6/2008 9:38:49 AM)

quote:

I also think, although I have no biblical evidence as such, that the current Heaven (where God is on His throne, where Christ is seated, etc.) is in another dimension, less than a breath away - similar to what LCannon said.


I totally agree with you on this point. Heaven exists all around us...if we could just see.

Bob



URForgiven -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/6/2008 9:48:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito

I also think, although I have no biblical evidence as such, that the current Heaven (where God is on His throne, where Christ is seated, etc.) is in another dimension, less than a breath away - similar to what LCannon said.


This is my own belief also, that it is another dimension. Perhaps as close as the end of our own noses...

Peace



modu -> RE: Where is heaven? Is it a location or presence? (7/8/2008 5:16:41 PM)

Heaven is much much bigger than a location. It is the presence of the living God. When the Holy Bible talks of the new heaven, the revelation there is spiritual and not for people to see it as one beautiful physical capital all believers would be at end time. Rather, it simply means the fulfillment of righteousness on believers, which is the same as the perfect divine essence of God revealed in glory on human vessels that would be above the laws of nature. This heavenly expressions in human vessels would be in the presence and nature of the Supreme God in Christ Jesus. God and His domain cannot and is not limited to a specific location.
He is omnipotent, omnipresence and omniscient



Page: [1]



Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5 ANSI